₦airaland Forum

Gabrielshow24:
🤦My God, you keep going in circles.
I wanted to have a sensible conversation with a fellow brother in Christ but when I saw this your inerrant behavior, I knew you were impervious to change.

I am just here to show you contradictions!
I am not the absolute source of authority on scriptures neither are you.

But you making an absolute statement like that and not persuaded by reasoning hence my logical stance!

If you keep reiterating I will keep reiterating Jesus' word because in the first place you failed to take context into play, I will continually mirror your logic until you see your flaws.

Once again "Jesus saw" not I will see!

This is why I cautioned you, if okcornel didn't quote me I wouldn't read your posts

"So why didn't Jesus say, I have seen" stop trying to use logic(or any other means) when you do not understand, it doesn't help

OkCornel:
gohf and gabrielshow24

Do a bit of study and tell me the difference between

1) Heavenly realms in Ephesians 6 v 12 (epouraniois in greek) and;
2) Their place in heaven in Revelation 12 v 8 (topos ouranō in greek)

Gabrielshow24, also tell me clearly if the dragon has been hurled to earth, and the woman has already been protected in the wilderness for 1,260 days. No hiding behind doctrinal views, come out clearly and tell me if this has happened or not.

You that has studied why don't you say the answer

Except you do not know but also refuse to accept what is revealed?

OkCornel:
Has Revelation 12 v 13 happened?
Has the dragon pursued the woman to the wilderness?
Has the great tribulation happened?
Has the war in heaven happened?

Some believe it is Israel, historically Israel or better yet the Jews have been the most persecuted people on earth since the ascension of Jews, even up to what hilter is said to have done to them

You then ask has he pursued them to the wilderness?

Well for the remaining of the verses I choose not to respond 😁

How can the great tribulations be a past event and Jesus hasn't come, do you understand the words of Jesus recorded in the gospels

Matt.24.29 - "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt.24.30 - Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Or do you think the tribulations ended in Revelation 7 at the sixth seal?

The fact you read my words and still asked your last question means you do not deserve to know if you did not see the answer already from what was written. 😊

OkCornel:
You are just blowing empty words. Explain to us how Satan fell from heaven like lightening in Luke 10 v 18 if he was cast out of this same heaven prior to the creation of earth and man.

For the sake of others reading though this question is not directed to me

Jesus is Luke 10:18 saw a prophecy of what is to happen after his death and resurrection that gives us the power to continually cast out demons


This is the NKJV translation of what Luke wrote
Luke.10.17 - Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."
Luke.10.18 - And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
Luke.10.19 - Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luke.10.20 - Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven."

For the sake of those who have read so far, hopefully you read this

Revelation 12 comes after Revelation 11, after the seventh trumpet
Rev.11.15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" (NKJV)

But the first part of Revelation 12 is not an occurrence but a vision of the past, a sign, infact after that sign had ended
Rev.12.9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (NKJV)

WAS CAST OUT and the result was
Rev.12.10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

I don't know when you all think salvation and God's kingdom came, or when the power of Christ came upon the church but it is not a futuristic statement because Jesus himself said if I cast out demons then the kingdom of God has come. Matt.12.28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Rev.12.11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. (NKJV)

They will overcome? Is that what is written? NO

They OVERCAME...

Love new living translation of Rev.12.1 Then I witnessed in heaven an event of great significance. I saw a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon beneath her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head. (NLT)

HE WAS CAST OUT
the next verse after the vision ended,
Rev.12.13 - Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.
Rev.12.17 - And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


That's why the question is, who will...
Rom.8.33 - Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
Rom.8.34 - Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

There is no one accusing God's people before God anymore. What happened to Job, happened to the Joshua the priest and others like prince of Persia etc, happened before Jesus dead and rose

Col.2.15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. (NIV)

Jesus came, he died and overcame, there are other verses in NT

So is satan in heaven now? NO, can he gain access there? NO

So since he can't accuse us, what does he do
He fights God's people

And he fights because
Eph.1.3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, (NKJV)

Eph.6.12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. (ALL)

Now what are heavenly places? Or heavenly realms?

This realm is a realm of spiritual warfare and without the authority given to Jesus we cannot prevail, without the word of testimony given to us we cannot overcome nor resist

Eph.1.19 - and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power
Eph.1.20 - which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph.1.21 - far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.
Eph.1.22 - And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church,


We are to replace the forces and powers of darkness be thrown out,

Eph.2.4 - But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
Eph.2.5 - even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Eph.2.6 - and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph.2.7 - that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

By declaring God's word

Eph.3.10 - to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,

So is satan still ruling in the heavenly realms? NO, he is still pretending to be god of the earth, Yes, is he fighting against God's people, Yes

Revelation 13 shows what he does at the last trumpet sounded...


In the old testament he had been sneaking, like
2Cor.11.14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. (NKJV) disguises himself but God can see through his deception and thank God he was rebuked in the case of Joshua the priest.

Do you think he gave us his ambition because he was cast out of heaven

Isaiah's words are a prophecy
Isa.14.12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! (NKJV)
This happened when Jesus won the battle
That's why verse 15
Isa.14.15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit. (NKJV)

This is yet to happen, and like Revelation says it happens just before the millennium reign


Ezekiel prophecies it as well
Ezek.28.8 - They shall throw you down into the Pit, And you shall die the death of the slain In the midst of the seas.
Ezek.28.9 - "Will you still say before him who slays you, "I am a god'? But you shall be a man, and not a god, In the hand of him who slays you.

It has not yet happened. Yes he was cast out from God's presence as Moses wrote in Genesis and roamed the earth but he sneaked into the assembly of God's children when they present themselves before the LORD.



I hope you all understand. God bless

Gabrielshow24:
In some cases to get to the truth you have to use the law of contradictions/non-contradiction!

It's well laid out in Philosophy and Mathematics!!!

You yourself said, "I used oversimplification to sell my case!"

What I call this is CONFUSION

OkCornel:
Make I balance well, this thread dey sweet wella.

Are you still here or have you left?

Gabrielshow24:
It's not, I said " some argue", I made it clear that it's subject to interpretation and there is no one consensus as to what this means.

I brought up different interpretations that are valid in their own right!

Which is to show my intent from the very beginning; which was to bring forth contradictions that shows his logical flaws!
and the verse itself didn't warrant an absolute statement!

Which op failed to take into account before making such an absolute statement!

What did you infer when he made such a statement, did you state the truth clearly enough?

Gabrielshow24:
Evidence to the contrary!
I was showing him the logical flaws he was committing, prominently hasty generalization.

He failed to take other verses into account and from Revelation 12 concluded Satan is still heaven!

I didn't give a definite answer; my intent is to show his flaws nothing more!

I used oversimplification to sell my case!

Also simple logic suggests that "a contradiction defeats an absolute statement"

if you use a wrong means do you expect to get a right result?

Asking you this question base on logic

Helping whoever is following this conversation the truth is actually more important than trying to "show him his flaw"

OkCornel:
🥱 tell us the difference between “heavenly realms” in Ephesians 6 v 12 and “their place in heaven” in Revelation 12 v 8

gabrielshow24 this is one of the examples of him having a field day with you

Previously okcornel asked you, when does the sign In Revelation 12:1-9 occur

And you seem to give one answer and then another and then no answer. Is it Israel, humanity or what? Such response is somehow.

Gabrielshow24:
Your statement contains several logical fallacies that weaken your argument. First, it commits a straw man fallacy by misrepresenting my views of Revelation 12, oversimplifying my position to suggest that these events must have occurred before the creation of man. This misrepresentation distracts from the actual complexities of the interpretation.

Additionally, your assertion presents a false dichotomy by implying that the events either happened before the creation of man or not at all, ignoring the possibility of alternative interpretations, such as viewing these events as symbolic or existing outside of a linear timeline.

Furthermore, the question begs the issue by presupposing a specific chronological order that aligns with human history, which is not necessarily applicable to apocalyptic literature. Overall, these fallacies detract from a meaningful discussion about the interpretation of Revelation 12 and its implications. Your statement reveals several logical fallacies that undermine your argument

If you keep committing these fallacies, there is no way to have a sane, meaningful conversation.

Don't just hastily generalize 🤦

Your issue is, using language and logic and improper understanding and use of scripture.

He is having a field day with you because your responses are not with certainity

OkCornel:
So when was Satan cast out of heaven?

And why do we still have spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms as written in Ephesians 6 v 12?

Or is Apostle Paul a nut job too hmmm?🤔

I have been reading your posts and I am not saying Gabrielshow24 is right, but what is your point

Is it that satan is in heaven right now?

By the way heavenly realms there doesn't mean heaven as in where God's throne is, it references spiritual realms.

Kingosytex:
Reconciling Sovereignty and Free Will

It is not possible for us to fully understand the sovereignty of the infinite God. He is too high above us for anything like complete understanding. Yet we are made in his image, bearing his likeness. So, when we try to understand the love, goodness, righteousness, mercy, and sovereignty of God, our human understanding of those concepts should be a reliable, albeit limited, guide.

So, while human sovereignty is more limited than God’s sovereignty, I believe that we can use the one to understand the other. In other words, what we know of human sovereignty is the best guide we have toward understanding God’s sovereignty.

Recall that a human sovereign is responsible for making and enforcing the rules that govern his kingdom. That is likewise true of God. In God’s creation, he makes the rules. And he enforces and judges any violation of those laws.

Under a human sovereign, the subjects are free to follow or disobey the rules mandated by the sovereign. But to disobey the laws comes at a cost. With a human sovereign it is possible that you might be able to break a law without getting caught and paying the penalty. But that would not be true with a sovereign who is omniscient and righteous. Every violation would be known and punished.

That the subjects are free to violate the king’s laws does not diminish his sovereignty. In a like manner, that we as humans are free to violate God’s laws does not diminish his sovereignty. With a finite human sovereign, my disobedience might derail some plan of the sovereign. But that would not be true of an omniscient, omnipotent sovereign. He would know my disobedience before it occurred and have planned around it to be able to fulfill his purpose in spite of me.

And that seems to be the model described in the Scriptures. God is sovereign and is the source of our moral code. And we, as his subjects, follow or disobey. For obedience there is reward. For disobedience there is punishment. But his willingness to allow us to disobey does not diminish his sovereignty.

While there are some individual passages that would seem to support a deterministic approach to free will, the Scripture as a whole teaches that, while God is sovereign, humans do have a free will that allows us to choose to act in ways that are contrary to God’s will for us.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/how-do-we-reconcile-gods-sovereignty-and-human-free-will.html

OAM4J
NLFPMOD
MYND44
SEUN

correct and that God allows some things to happen is because they work together for good. So those whom we think are doing things against God but God let's them be, is because there's a purpose they are serving

A tree branch either bears fruit or is used as firewood. Don't be surprised if the lake of fire has a great universal purpose, and people have to be there for that purpose and it wasn't an after thought but an original intention.

Kingosytex:
There have been countless words written about God’s sovereignty. And probably just as much has been written about human free will. Most would seem to agree that God is sovereign, at least in some measure. And most seem to agree that humans have, or at least seem to have, some form of free will. But there is a lot of debate over the extent of sovereignty and free will as well as the compatibility of these two things.

What Is Sovereignty?

The dictionary defines sovereignty as “supreme power or authority.” A king who rules a nation would be considered that nation’s sovereign – one who is not answerable to any other person. While few countries today are ruled by sovereigns, it was common in ancient times.

A sovereign is ultimately responsible for the establishing and enforcing the laws that regulate life within their specific nation. Laws may be implemented at lower levels of the government, but the law mandated by the sovereign is supreme and overrides any others. Enforcement of the laws and execution of punishment will also likely be delegated in most cases. But the authority for that enforcement lies with the sovereign.

Repeatedly, the Scripture identifies God as sovereign. Most notably you find it in Ezekiel where he is identified as “Sovereign Lord” 210 times. While the Scripture sometimes pictures a heavenly council, it is God alone who rules over his creation.

In the books of Exodus through Deuteronomy, we find the law code given by God to Israel through Moses. But God’s moral law is also written on the hearts of all people (Rom. 2:14-15). Deuteronomy, along with all the prophets, makes it clear that God holds us responsible for obeying his law. Likewise, there are consequences for failing to obey his revelation to us. While God has delegated some responsibility to human government (Rom. 13:1-7), he is still ultimately sovereign.

Does Sovereignty Demand Absolute Control?

A question that divides those who otherwise adhere to the sovereignty of God concerns the amount of control that requires. Is it possible for God to be sovereign if people are able to act in ways that are contrary to his will?

On the one hand are those who would deny that possibility. They would say that God’s sovereignty is somehow diminished if he is not in total control of everything that happens. Everything must happen in the way that he has planned.

On the other hand are those who would understand that God, in his sovereignty, has granted a certain amount of autonomy to humanity. This “free will” allows humanity to act in ways that are contrary to how God might wish for them to act. It is not that God is powerless to stop them. Rather he has granted us permission to act as we do. Yet, even though we might act contrary to God’s will, his purpose in creation will be accomplished. There is nothing we can do that will thwart his purpose.

Which view is correct? Throughout the Bible we find people who acted contrary to the instruction God had given to them. The Bible even goes so far as to claim that there is no one, apart from Jesus, who is good, who does what God wants (Rom. 3:10-20). The Bible describes a world that is in rebellion against their creator. That seems at odds with a God who is in total control of all that happens. Unless those in rebellion against him do so because it is God’s will for them.

Three Views of Human Free Will
Free will implies the ability to make choices within some constraints. For instance, I can choose, among a limited set of options, what I will eat for dinner. And I can choose whether I am going to obey the speed limit. But I cannot choose to act contrary to the physical laws of nature. I do not have a choice in whether or not gravity will pull me to the ground when I jump out of a window. Nor can I choose to sprout wings and fly.

One group of people will deny that we actually have free will. That free will is only an illusion. This position is determinism, that every instant of my story is controlled by the laws that run the universe, my genetics, and my environment. Divine determinism would identify God as the one who determines my every choice and action.

A second view holds that free will exists, after a fashion. This view holds that God works in the circumstances of my life to ensure that I freely make the choices that God wants me to. This view is often labeled as compatibilism because it is compatible with a strict view of sovereignty. Yet it really seems to be little different from divine determinism since in the end people are always making the choices that God wants from them.

Romans 3:10-20 you quoted doesn't state that Jesus is good, infact Jesus said that only the Father is good.

Now to your topic about will and free will, the answer is, can a man go against his own nature?

And if his nature is already predetermined, doesn't that mean even his choices have been set before him. The one who makes a thing decides for it, at no where in scripture did God say I give man free will, it is either God's will or we go against it, it's either life or death.

True freedom can only be found in God's will and God's sovereign is absolute to those who submit to him. God who sees the hearts of men knows what will become of them, why, it is because He is the one who determines the future and the outcome.


Look the choice may be given to us, but the outcome is of God, that's what is in proverbs. There is no freedom from God.

"The Bible describes a world that is in rebellion against their creator. That seems at odds with a God who is in total control of all that happens. Unless those in rebellion against him do so because it is God’s will for them." You wrote this and if it's a question my answer is yes, do you think God did not know that Judas would betray Jesus, he revealed it to Jesus from the time the 12 were selected.

You read repeatedly it is not by ourselves it is because we were chosen.

Even before Esau and Jacob came into the world their fates were decided, if that isn't sovereignty what else is.

"There is nothing we can do that will thwart his purpose." I agree with this


Does a character in a book decide the outcome, infact the words I am writing and will write that come from within me have already been predestined. God is all-knowing for a reason, if the choice and reaction you will have to reading this, He knows even before you realise.

Who tells a man that has decided in his heart to stand with Jesus that he will betray him at so so and so moment. It's like God and see it all and just rewinded it and we are living in it.

The fact someone even as a choice to make is because God decided to let such a person live, we are talking about a being who knows the number of hairs on a person's head. When even what is considered insignificant is known how much more that which is significant.

When Jesus taught us to pray he pointed out that God already knows

Happy Sunday

See modern day technology has reduced many "miracle crusades"

You wonder if some so called generals would be active in today's world.

They have gone from faking miracles to faking testimonies. God will help his people.

Happy Sunday everyone

Happy Sunday everyone

Happy Sunday everyone

Happy Sunday everyone

Happy Sunday everyone

Happy Sunday everyone

Captain4Jehovah:
It's truly JESUS IS NOT GOD, YAHWEH, the Father of all! When we refer to distinctive personality, He is the ONLY true GOD.

However, I wrote earlier on this platform that the word "God" is a family name used for all supernatural forces, spirits not exclusively Satan and demons_all are Gods. Any being, including man that one aspires to reach at all cost, reverences and worships with awe and who has authority over one is a god. Consider Genesis 3:5; Ex 4:16; John 10:34, 20:28
If we come to creation, Jesus is a God as his Father for sharing His Divinity_he has eternity, he can give life for in him is life.

being like God and being God are two different things

Moses was LIKE God to pharaoh, a representative of God to him. We understand that phrase in Hebrew text for Exodus 7:1 as meaning as God, or do you want to say that Moses was Elohim to Pharaoh means Moses is an Elohim or a Elohim.


Being a god is an afront to the true God, ye are gods but you shall die men, Jesus only confessed to be the son of God but never God, it's the devil that claims and desires to be God and claims to be god of this world.

sons of God are all under God
those who claim to be gods are in rebellion and will perish.

Gabrielshow24:
And yet at the very end the creatures of God are told to worship God and his lamb 👀.

Hebrews states that "the son" made the foundations of the world and everything is the works of his hand.

And yet your hypocrisy when it's revealed to you that this personality,Christ can never be a creature reveals it self.

Christ predates time, he is himself stating that.
What you are suffering is the classic case of
"Mo iya esho ju esho lo"

This is when someone thinks he knows God more than Jesus when it's clearly stated otherwise!

Jesus is the way the truth and the life!

worship God and His lamb

Only one God mentioned not two, and He owns the Lamb

ocnovakmichael:
Well said brother. Now I'm not a proponent of the idea that Christians should have three baptisms. What my article says is that Jesus had three baptisms which are clearly seen in scriptures. But we do not have to go through that, one baptism, as Paul wrote in the book of Ephesians, suffices.

I'm only pointing out the obvious that Jesus has three baptisms that we may be preserved in him.

"Clearly seen" "obvious" 😏

I showed you and explained that Jesus had just one baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit where the Spirit came upon him and dwelt but do you still choose to believe in three baptism, hmm, it's well.


Let me share with you what another baptism truly means, to receive another baptism is to receive another spirit, it's to be immersed into another body.

Once you are put into the Spirit, we are to dwell in Christ and Christ in us.
Jesus who was born as a result of the Holy Spirit and the power of God, becoming flesh became immersed into the Spirit and got led to the wilderness overcoming satan and years later to the cross to overcome the curse of sin, to overcome death

ocnovakmichael:
Share your thoughts and view on this topic

okay

Indeed baptism means immersion, but do you also realize that Paul wrote: Eph.4.5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

It is just one baptism, not two or three

Now Jesus said in Matt.28.19, Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,...

That doesn't mean three baptisms, but one baptism, one name, not the name of the Father, the name of the son and the name of the Holy Spirit.

I agree that baptism is for preservation like you wrote but such understanding shouldn't result in you believing there are multiple baptisms.

We are sealed right, by the Holy Spirit, once not multiple times. It's like one saying because there are seven spirits mentioned in revelation it means there are seven baptisms.

But we know from scripture in Isaiah the spirit of the Lord came upon him, the spirit of wisdom etc etc etc. it wasn't the spirits of the Lord because they are one spirit, nine gifts of one spirit, the Holy Spirit. Nine characteristics of one kind fruit, the fruit of righteousness.

Now 1 Corinthians 10, Paul speaks of those who followed Moses and entered into covenant with him and God, as being baptism into cloud and sea as a type of water baptism abi. Now the point Paul was making is that even though they passed the red sea and walked under God's cloud and covering, even though they eat spiritual food and drank spiritual water from the rock, whom Paul refers to was Christ, they sinned and committed Iniquity and idolatry and were destroyed because of it.

Now you know like you said baptism is immersion but the people never entered the cloud nor the fire you later make mention of. But then you would say they didn't enter the sea either but passed through it

And I get that you then suggest that, o, it's sea, cloud and fire, but does it have to cost as three and not one, a baptism to bring them to the promise land. Because in the day it's a cloud but at night it is fire, the both don't occur at the same time.

It's just like how we are baptized and we don't remain in the same state and condition. I have stated the purpose of why he wrote or what he wrote in 1 Corinthians 10

Now speaking of the baptism of fire, being the death of Jesus, I agree as well but as you saw it's the final stage of the baptism which ushered him into his assignment and ministry. Meaning he was already baptism to do that, baptized to die on that cross. Let me explain through the words of Jesus

Now before John baptized Jesus, John said, he who comes after me, Jesus, baptizes with the Holy Spirit and with fire, Like 3:16. and when Jesus was baptized by John, Jesus was baptized by the Holy Spirit and so later he spoke to the disciples later he says
Matt.20.22 - But Jesus answered and said, "You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?" They said to Him, "We are able."

Now this is saying the baptism I will be baptized with but the baptism that I have received that you don't yet have but will receive after my death and resurrection.

"Baptized with" past tense

Other translations leave it out, for example Matt.20.23 "You will indeed drink from it," he told them. "But I have no right to say who will sit on the thrones next to mine. My Father has prepared those places for the ones he has chosen." (NLT)


Now you may go, ah but Luke said, I always tell people read Matthew first, there's a reason it is listed first, then Mark and then Luke

Luke.12.49 "I have come to bring fire to the earth, and I wish that my task were already completed! (NLT)Luke.12.50 There is a terrible baptism ahead of me, and I am under a heavy burden until it is accomplished. (NLT)


Now when you read a verse and you don't relate with other verses you may not understand what was said nor what is written. Infact verse 49 explains verse 50. Jesus came to send fire a baptism that would separate those who are to be saved and the rest, and he was eager to accomplish it.


Some have assumed Jesus is saying he is going to bring hell on everyone or make everyone pass through hell, like Mark 9 you quoted, lemme read a different translation
Mark.9.49 "For everyone will be purified with fire. (NLT)

Now even if it's KJV or NKJV Mark.9.49 "For everyone will be seasoned with fire, and every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt. (NKJV)

Know that Jesus was speaking to his disciples and the fire here is meant for good not for destruction. Key word seasoned. Salted, and verse 50 refers to salt as peace, so being made peaceful with God by purification of fire. the baptism of fire.

We know that in acts the Holy Spirit came upon them in form cloven tongues of fire, I could say purified tongues or circumcised with fire tongues, like what occured with Isaiah whose mouth was touched with coals from God's through and declared your Iniquity has been taken away.


The whole purpose of my response is to answer this, "How come Christ is mentioning another baptism?"

JESUS DOESN'T SPEAK OF A THIRD BAPTISM BUT OF ONE SPECIFIC BAPTISM. Of the Holy Spirit and of Fire.. in another phrase baptism of Holy Spirit and Power, for he instructed them to wait for the Holy Spirit to come upon them with power, with fire.

I agree we need the baptism to live for Christ, die for God's will and be resurrected to glory.

1Cor.12.13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. (NKJV)

😊

Justiceori2019:
Pastor Mike Bamiloye, Founder of Mount Zion Faith Ministries, has raised concerns about the frequent travels of some female ministers who often leave their husbands alone for extended periods.

In a Facebook post, Bamiloye highlighted the challenges faced by these husbands, who are left to manage the local church alone while their wives undertake ministry trips.

The Man of God said it is wrong for female ministers into ministry to take ministry trips and stay for longer period leaving their husband alone.

Bamiloye wrote:

you would have added TRAVEL FOR LONG, well I believe it depends on the husband she marries as a minister of God, did he permit her to have a long stay or for her to travel and be back at so and so time.


An outsider can't easily say it's wrong or right, because first we have Jesus the head, then the husband of whom both may have given her the permission.

Not like there is a command written anyway against such so why bother.

If she disobeys her husband that her violating the instruction for her to be submissive, if she extends her stay without permission that's still a lack of submission. But a woman must obey God o, no make man make you no follow God's revealed and true will which doesn't go against His name nor His word (not your assumed imaginary will) because some men may be agents of darkness or used by the devil.


Also if you have children do not abandon them, leave them if you have TRUSTWORTHY hands, people FILLED WITH GRACE to train and raise children in the right way.


Well God will give you wisdom


But if this topic is about sex and the man being sex starved, please they should rest.

6. We don't force our "version" of peace on others. Remember the peace of the world and the peace from Christ are not the same. We are not violent nor vengeful.

Jesus knows and understands that there are people who won't be at peace with you nor want to be at peace with you. There are those who reject God's peace and do not see it nor know it.

Luke.19.42 - and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace--but now it is hidden from your eyes.

Why? Because they rejected it.

Now no matter how people treat you, and what you experience instead of feeling bitter, let us see it as discipline

Heb.12.11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.


So let's discipline our minds against vengeful thoughts and instead focus on meditating on the gospel of peace, proclaiming and practicing it.

7. Be prayerful

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy--meditate on these things.
The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you. (Phil. 4:6-9)

8. Finally be at peace with other believers, be united and one.

Eph.4.3 - make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Col.3.15 - And let the peace from Christ rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful.

So to the wicked do not be vengeful, preach repentance and peace, if they refuse it, just walk away, while to the righteous be one with them. Forgiving your brother 70x7. Matt. 18:21-22.

God bless you 😊

1Thess.5.23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now Jesus said a number of things concerning peace, let's learn a thing or two from him, hopefully everything 😊

Matt.5.9 Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.

So what qualifies us to be called children of God is that we make peace, we make every effort to be at peace and be peaceful. Even when there is no peace, we try to make it, we are not just peacekeepers we are peacemakers, we resolve conflicts.

3. Let's call this number 3, our ability to resolve conflicts and bring about peace is what it means to be righteous and a child of God

Mark.9.50 - Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another."

Jesus expects us to be the light of this world and the salt of the earth. Now does this mean we should bring peace to the earth, I want us to note that in Mark 9, Jesus was speaking to the disciples, who had been arguing about which of them is greater, and then Jesus said be at peace with one another.

* Conflict and arguments usually arises from one seeking supremacy over the other, seeking to show they are better or greater than others. But peace is accepting who God has called us to be and who others are.

So does Jesus bring peace to earth, or as salt of the earth are you to bring peace to the earth? Now, listen to what Jesus said about peace to earth

Matt.10.34 - "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.

At times as believers we believe that being peaceable means being agreeable with the people of earth.

Jesus indeed as the son of God brought peace but not for the earth but for his followers and disciples, and he tells his followes to be at peace with each other.

John.14.27 - Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

So that our hearts won't be troubled, confused nor afraid. So the purpose of the peace of Christ is for us to stand firm, especially when we face trials and tribulations. So the purpose of the peace of Christ is for those who are persecuted for doing what is good.

John.16.33 - These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

4. 😊 What number now? Anyway, so far we have seen that peace comes from Jesus, from his words so that we may have joy in a world that afflicts the righteous, instead of bitterness.

The peace of God is for the righteous and not for the unrighteous. Even in scripture, it is written, Isa.48.22 "There is no peace," says the LORD, "for the wicked."

To the wicked Peter quoting from Psalm 34 writes, 1Pet.3.11 He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.

So before we receive peace and be peacemakers, we are to repent and turn from our evil ways.

5. Then what we are to give the wicked is the opportunity to repent, the message of repentance before the message of peace, that's the gospel of peace.

So we are not to give peace to the wicked even though we do not repay them with evil, look even if you do, they will reject it if they dont repent from their wickedness, listen to what Jesus said

Matt.10.12-13 - When you go into a house, say, 'Peace be with you.' If the
household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.

You may ask what does it mean to be worthy? Well if they listen and accept the gospel of peace proclaimed to them. In another gospel it records
Luke.10.6 - And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest on it; if not, it will return to you.

So if our message, our gospel of peace our attempts and effort to bring peace is rejected, we are to leave.

As believers and the righteous we are called to a gospel of peace, to walk in peace

Eph.6.15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.

For our God is the God of peace
1Cor.14.33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

1. We are not expected to walk in confusion but in peace so we should make every effort to be in peace, why, well Peter writes in 2 Peter 3:14 that since we are looking forward to the coming of day of God, to new heavens and new earth, let us be diligent so that God will find us in peace and not with spots and blames.

2. The second thing we have to learn about being peaceful is that we shouldn't be vengeful.
After Paul tells us to be humble and not be wise in our own opinion he writes from Romans 12:17 Do not repay evil with evil, consider carefully what is right while others are watching, and if possible do your part to live at peace with others, leaving vengeance for God.

So to be righteous we have to make effort to be peaceful and not vengeful, one of the reasons is because our God is the God of peace who is with us, Roms. 15:33 and our God of peace will crush satan under our feet Roms. 16:20.

So we show that we trust God and are not confused by what people do when we are peaceful and peaceable. It is something that isn't easy so we are expected to make every effort to do it
Heb.12.14 Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

Peace is the fruit of the Holy Spirit that we should be know for, Gal. 5:22 and Matt. 7:16. If we come from peace then we should proclaim, produce and show forth peace.

We shouldn't even speak evil of others
Titus.3.2 - to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.

* And at times to be peaceable may require us to avoid certain people

2Tim.2.22-26 - Flee also youthful lusts and evil desires; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

Our preaching shouldn't even be in violence or with force, but with love, peace and humility.


So we shouldn't be violent nor vengeful so that we don't develop bitterness in our hearts which will trouble us and defiles us, Heb.12.15.


The thought of being vengeful doesn't come from God but from the devil who wishes to defile us.

"If you are wise and understand God's ways, live a life of steady goodness so that only good deeds will pour forth. And if you don't brag about the good you do, then you will be truly wise! But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about being wise, denying the truth. For such wisdom doesn't come from above but is earthly, carnal and demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.
Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace."
(James.3.13-18)

We see that such thoughts is not from God and that bitterness is from the devil, and by obeying Jesus by being peacemakers, we purify ourselves from such bitterness and confusion.

We need to rid ourselves from every vengeful thinking for it is carnal
Rom.8.6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

So Peace comes from God through Christ to cleanse us, our hearts from the bitterness that kills;

Sirmwill:
😅
You need to know something


When Paul was going to Jerusalem to preach, some specific people prophesied in the name of God that he should not go

And meeting the disciples we were there for seven days: and they gave Paul orders through the Spirit not to go up to Jerusalem. (Act 21: 4)

That was through the spirit of God oo

Now

Another set of people again did the same
11. And he came to us, and took the band of Paul's clothing, and putting it round his feet and hands, said, The Holy Spirit says these words, So will the Jews do to the man who is the owner of this band, and they will give him up into the hands of the Gentiles. 12. And hearing these things, we and those who were living in that place made request to him not to go to Jerusalem. (Act 21: 11-12)

Now
When Paul went to Jerusalem, look at what God told Paul himself

And the night after, the Lord came to his side and said, Be of good heart, for as you have been witnessing for me in Jerusalem, so will you be my witness in Rome. (Act 23: 11)

This is a very solid example of people even Giving Prophecy i.e speaking the mind of God about something which the person (Paul in this case) went against and still went to Jerusalem and God commended him for it as you see in Acts 23:11
God was happy with Paul that he said that he would also go to Rome to do the same thing he has come to Jerusalem to do

I am quoting your original text to firstly apologise for saying that
Acts.21.4 We went ashore, found the local believers, and stayed with them a week. These disciples prophesied through the Holy Spirit that Paul should not go on to Jerusalem.

Meant they gave own personal interpretation of what the Holy Spirit showed them, now it's possible they did but today I believe I received a correction from the Lord concerning my stance of what Paul did.

I haven't gone through what I wrote as I believe an apology first is important.

Now what I heard was it was Paul's decision to go to Jerusalem, haven't I shown you times when he went or even wanted to go and do, based on his own decisions.

I wouldn't completely believe it, till I got directed to Acts 22:17-21

Acts.22.17 - "Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I was in a trance
Acts.22.18 - and saw Him saying to me, "Make haste and get out of Jerusalem quickly, for they will not receive your testimony concerning Me.'
Acts.22.19 - So I said, "Lord, they know that in every synagogue I imprisoned and beat those who believe on You.
Acts.22.20 - And when the blood of Your martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by consenting to his death, and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.'
Acts.22.21 - Then He said to me, "Depart, for I will send you far from here to the Gentiles."'



Though Luke did not record a direct command for Paul to not go to Jerusalem, you are right I agree, Paul went against the will and he faced the consequences that was revealed.

Then the Lord appeared to him in that Acts.23.11 - But the following night the Lord stood by him and said, "Be of good cheer, Paul; for as you have testified for Me in Jerusalem, so you must also bear witness at Rome."

To encourage and correct him.


Even I my self do the things I believe is right even when they go against God's leading but because the Lord sees that the heart is right he sends us encouragement after we have been disciplined.

I still stand as I have show that both what the Spirit revealed and the direction the Lord spoke to Paul were in agreement.

And just as atimes there are no direct commands, I believe it's for there to be room for mercy. Like a brother or sister could be shown to someone but no command saying you must marry her.


I apologise once again.

chiboycue:
Your commentary was limited to Malachi 3: 7. You did talk much about Malachi 3: 8 -12. When you pay tithe which is one-tenth of your income, you present it to the church. It is important that we pay tithes and offerings to support the growth of churches and evangelism and to inculcate the habit of giving. We give to God in appreciation of what he has given and done to us. I have heard testimonies of people whose tithes are more than one- tenth of their incomes and they do not have any regrets paying tithe. Please read about tithers and givers on the link https://toninatho./2008/06/23/givers-and-tithers/

Hearing testimonies of people killing sheep, goat and cows and receiving a 'blessing or miracle' doesn't mean we should do so does it?

You are speaking about the logical use for something that Jesus didn't command

When you obey Jesus and give what you have to the poor, what would be left for you to obey the law and tithe?

Have you ever considered that to uphold the traditions of men some have gone against God's very commands.

Glad they don't have regrets but I am not speaking of earthly joy but eternal joy and rejoicing, do you guarantee that they won't have regrets then when they face the Lord and discover they were miss led?