₦airaland Forum

Donaldoni:
Tithe is paid not given. It's an obligation. It's a fixed figure.

Matthew 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

have you ever wondered why Jesus used their tithing as example, surely that wasnt the only command they kept abi?

In a list of woes, did Jesus mention that as something good they did?

Donaldoni:
Tithe is tithe. Giving is giving.

Jesus addressed both when He was here.

That is why we give other offerings in church aside tithe.

You either pay tithe or you don't.

You don't give tithe. You pay it.

okay so what are you paying for?

And to whom are you paying it?

Donaldoni:
24-hour days are a recent invention. That is why you cannot determine what the 7th day of Bible times corresponds to today.

So we just go with Sunday. But the tithe is fixed and must be paid.

Malachi 3:10-12
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

Matthew 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

2 Timothy 3:16
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Did you know to whom God was speaking to in Malachi 3 were the same with those He was speaking to in Malachi 2:1 the priests?

Do you know why God was speaking to them that way?

Did God wait till Malachi to give a punishment for not tithing, something that was made a law by Moses?

In Matthew was Jesus commending the tithers? Did you know you could read the ending phrase as Jesus saying, you ought to have done this without leaving it undone?

Did you know that no matter how profitable scripture is, it only reveals the saviour and doesn't save you?

Did you know that Jesus is revealed in Malachi 3?

naijapikin2:
The levites are the priests and servants of God today who commit their life to FULLY serve God. If you don't know this, then you really need a spiritual updating. Ask anyone you know in christianity. THE LEVITES ARE THE PRIESTS TODAY.

but the Levites were not all even priests in their day?


Did Jesus command the apostles to collect tithe?

Donaldoni:
There were no christians when Jesus was around. His Word is enough to direct us.

but there were followers of Jesus right?

Michael547:
Point:
3)Does Malachi 3 instructs Christians or the isrealites to pay tithe?
4)Did Jesus say His Followers must pay tithe? Kindly quote a verse?
5)Where does Hebrews say that Jesus is collecting tithes of Christians in Heaven and how do Christians give tithe to Jesus in heaven?
6)kindly provide a verse.

I hope cheeryfeet responded because I haven't seen it yet I will keep reading and looking for the response

johnw47:
Rev_12:10  Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.

not sure what your argument with him is on, but Rev 12:10 is just another proof of consistency that Jesus is the son of God, the Christ the anointed one of God, anointed and chosen by God Almighty Jehovah the creator and maker of heavens and earth

Steep:
The spirit in you is a lying spirit deceiving you. May God have mercy on you.

you are blamspheming

Janosky:
Gohf your points very sound and straight forward.

Sand2022 & his fellow Trinitarians are confused lots.

They claim that 3 deities are referenced at Genesis 1:26
But Yahweh Himself rebuked that fictitious Trinitarian claim.
@ Genesis 1:27, Isaiah 44:24 & Job 38:1-7.

@ Genesis 1:26 Yahweh was talking to other spirit beings dwelling in the spiritual 5realm (compare Isaiah 6:8 ) & the none of those spirits were equal to Yahweh (compare Hebrew 6:13).


**
Like you pointed out Psalm 102:24-25 referenced Yahweh as the Creator without end ,& @ Hebrew 1:10-12, unlike Jesus Christ @ Matthew 27:46,50, Paul was a staunch Judaist (not a Trinitarian) prior to his conversion.
Therefore, Paul won't contradict himself under divine inspiration.
( Trinitarians added a conjunction ("AND" at Hebrew 1:10, (my personal submission though) .
Evidences abounds that they have ALTERED Hebrew 1:6 to conflict with Psalm 45:6 "God is your throne/your throne is from God"
Just as they ALTERED 1 Timothy 3:16 & 1 John 5:7 & John 10:33.


Besides, Paul's epistle of Romans 11:34-36, Galatians 4:4 ,1 Corinthians 8:6 ,1 Corinthians 11:3 & Colossians 1:15 & Hebrew 1:2 is in direct conflict with the shady Trinitarian attempt to upgrade Jesus to their personal deity.


Neither was Paul a Trinitarian.

Maybe that's why people can believe and worship someone called Olumba Olumba as their god and Messiah because they believe God will come in the flesh to be worshipped

I have a question why did the herdsmen just watch and then report, why didn't they cry out to Jesus when they realised what was happening because for them to report what happened it means they noticed what was happening but said nothing.

Did they not believe that Jesus was capable to stopping the pigs from drowning?

Why did they report what happened to the man and not the pigs, Matthew 8:33, if Matthew account is more accurate?

And another thing is who raises or rears pigs in Israel when their law commands them not to eat such meat?

You call the pigs innocent? So who is guilty? Jesus?

So is everyone who kills a chicken, guilty?

When demons leave a human being then look for another life to inhabit and destroy and it wasn't time for them to be tormented and punished. But meanwhile they knew that before Jesus they couldn't be tormenting a man.

The question the gospel doesn't answer is, where did those demons come from, because surely that man wasn't born with them? Why was he so possessed? It wasn't just that they offered to go into the swine but Jesus also saw it just for them to "return".

This man or men lived a dirty, naked and miserable life


Now we may be calculating the loss of the herd to hundreds of millions in naira but Jesus never told the demons to drown the pigs. Considering that the price of pigs then may not be comparable to now, but what value does it have compared to a man's life?


The question we should ask is, who was profiting from that man's state?

Remember they didn't charge Jesus for the loss but begged him not to enter the city probably fearing judgement for the evils they have done.

They had great fear instead of great joy.

Do you notice in Matthew 8, Luke 8 and Mark 4 that before Jesus got there they faced a storm that could kill them, where did such storm come from?

Maybe the demons drown the pigs in attempt to make the people who loved material things reject Jesus but thank God the man (or men) healed went into the city and proclaimed the name and message of Jesus.


The question why did Jesus cause such loss? Should be answered once it is revealed that it was Jesus intention to cause such loss!

If Jesus was guilty he should have been charged but instead he didn't run but sat with the man he healed and yet the people were afraid of him.

Would you have preferred if those demons entered into the lives of others and destroyed it like they were doing to that man or those men?

calabaman:
Happy Sunday All,

I was once a good Christian I guess once upon a time.

But in recent times, I have been curious about what it means to be a Christian:

- Is being a Christian, going to church and signing in ?

- Is going to church, were a minister is having carnal knowledge of a fellow minister being a Christian

- is being a Christian not being mindful of the welfare of your brother/sister being a Christian?

- Is being a Christian, fighting over parking space in church with another Christian being a Christian?

- Is being a Christian, being chastised not for attending church service because of lack of tp being a Christian?

- Is seeing your fellow church member trekking in the scorching sun and not willing to drop off such a person, means you are a Christian ?

- Is Christianity being a tattletale (speaking bad against your neighbour)?

Is Christianity, a state of mind. I thought Christianity is supposed to be children of God (all of us) being Christlike??

Are the above mentioned people Christians?

in summary what does it mean to be a christian

cc righteousness

Fyi - I'm not having a mental breakdown or anything.

I even offered this in a different thread/post -

https://www.nairaland.com/8257955/check-up-family-friends

I think most people feel Christianity is about believing in God as a coping mechanism for dealing with life's harsh realities/problems

If you know what it means hope you will be an example of it by God's grace 🙂 👍🏿
Practice the much love you can and don't bother about judging or condemning others

Sand2022:
Jesus is evidently the one who made that statement. But that is another topic.

I agree we are not to have another besides God, however, there are many places where Jesus is worshipped, even in his christophanic appearances in the OT. What Trinity teaching is doing is to bring a summary of whom God is so as not to ignore other scriptures that presents someone else who is worshipped. Let me give one example of what I mean.

Now, the scripture you quoted above shows we shouldn't worship another God, but notice what happened at Josh 5:14-15. Pls read it.

First, do you agree that the Prince of Jehovah's Army is Jesus? If yes, do you agree he was worshipped there? Additionally, check rev 5:8-14. Do you agree Jesus is worshipped there as Jehovah is?

So which way can you have another Deity besides Jehovah? Don't you think that seeing them as having one essence help dispel any contradictions?



Perhaps you didn't mean to make Jesus inanimate, but the analogy seem to suggest that. What I think you mean is that Jesus was just an Agent through which God made things, as such, God is the creator and not Jesus.

I used to see it that way before, but I saw one scripture that challenged that. Let's see Heb 1:10-12

And: “At the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you will remain; and just like a garment, they will all wear out, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as a garment, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never come to an end.”

Here we see Jesus clearly praised as the creator. All creation are the work of Jesus hands.

This verse is taken from Psalm 102:25-27. A place used to praise God for his creations. Here Paul is saying that Jesus was in fact the person being praised there for creation.

Will you not agree that if Jesus was just an agent and nothing more like me and you are as we preach the goodness, he will not need to be praised for what he did as an Agent? Notice the final words;

"and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as a garment, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never come to an end."

This verse can only refer to God. God is the only one who is immutable. Also confirm from Heb 13:8. Only God can have that description.

What Trinity is saying is that this unique nature possess by God the Father is shared by both the Son and the Spirit. For me, this reconciles many scriptures attributing the Father's unique characteristics to others.




At times the bible uses the word God in reference to God the Father, in some cases to the Son or the Holy Spirit. These three have God being used for them in a unique way as to the Supreme Deity. So if there were no place what is unique to God is assigned to others, I don't think we will be having this conversation now. But there are, and you have to reconcile it.




Jesus was not appointed to be the exact FACSIMILE of His very BEING. Maybe you might need to see the force of that Greek word. This means that all the unique attribute of God is the exact same Jesus has. This is not the same as creatures have. We still see a similar phrasing at Phil 2. God's FORM. check that in Greek as well.

There is no way to escape Jesus nature as being same with God the Father. This is what the scripture says, not trinitarians.

God the Father occupies a headship role in the divine council. So almost all things are credited to Him, I think this made us think that He is the only one involved. The incarnation brought more revelation to us that in fact Jesus was sharing in all the glory given to God the Father when in heaven. (John 17:5)
Gen 1:26 gave us a hint that only one person is not involved, but it wasnt clearly revealed then.

Being at God's right hand or receiving authority from Him doesn't change his nature. It only shows that God the Father as the head is credited with assigning roles and authority. It also shows that humility rules even within the divine council. It doesn't diminish the nature. Jesus subjects to the father as well. Scholars call this functions or roles within the divine council.

Consider this, people have grieved God before and was forgiven, but if you grieve the Holy Spirit, you won't be forgiven. That doesn't mean the Spirit is greater than God the Father, but it is the role the Spirit occupies that make him have that authority.

Ps.2.11 - Serve the LORD with fear, And rejoice with trembling.
Ps.2.12 - Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

NLT puts verse 12
Ps.2.12 Submit to God's royal son, or he will become angry, and you will be destroyed in the midst of your pursuits--for his anger can flare up in an instant. But what joy for all who find protection in him! (NLT)

Even God himself said, listen to my son, obey him.

God put everything under his feet.

When you bow to your king or knee to your father as a form of honor and submission do you realise that worship in Hebrew meant to knee, to bow.

Every honor we receive we give to God, even Jesus said worship the Father did he not? If He was the Father and said such would He not be an author of confusion? And not the author of faith!

You said Jesus was evidently the one who made the statement in Exodus 20 but then you quoted Joshua 5:14-15 to claim the same speaker is Jesus, is he then confused as to who he is? No it is those who reject the truth that are confused.

You write, "What Trinity teaching is doing is to bring a summary of whom God is..." But this isn't true, what trinity teaching has done is to corrupt what John wrote when he mentioned three witnesses in heaven, not three Gods.

To you question, "If yes, do you agree he was worshipped there?" Yes he was
But to your question,"Do you agree Jesus is worshipped there as Jehovah is?" I say NO, Jehovah was honoured and Jesus was honored

In no where in Revelation 5:8-14 was the Lamb referred to as Jehovah through out the honor given to him, Jehovah was honoured, Jesus was honored. Rev.5.13 - Everyone said: "Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"

So which way can you have another Deity besides Jehovah?
Jesus WAS NEVER WORSHIPPED AS GOD, but as the son of God. Even Princes are honoured because of their Father, but never as their father, it is rebellion for a prince to be called a king while his father is king but it's different because the Father is God and the Son is king. And God is higher than the king.

Don't you think that seeing them as having one essence help dispel any contradictions? Having one essence doesn't mean being the same person, having the essence of holiness makes one of the same family being one doesn't mean being equal it just means being united.

"What I think you mean is that Jesus was just an Agent through which God made things, as such, God is the creator and not Jesus.." Yes that is what I mean and that's why John said the word became flesh and dwelt among us and not that God become flesh and dwelt among us. God is creator and Jesus is the means.

Let's look at and read Hebrews 1:10-12
Isaiah 51:13 Isaiah calls Jehovah the creator maker, who stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth.

Hebrews 1:13, But to which of the angels has He ever said: "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool"?

Who is the He, Hebrews is referring to? The He who is LORD the maker of heaven and earth, who doesn't perish but remains the same.

You say it is taken from Psalm 102, let's read it
Ps.102.22 When the peoples are gathered together, And the kingdoms, to serve the LORD (Jehovah)
Ps.102.24 I said, "O my God, Do not take me away in the midst of my days; Your years are throughout all generations.
Ps.102.25 Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

In the beginning You? Who? JEHOVAH GOD. When then do you see with your understanding something else?


Yet you wrote, "Paul is saying that Jesus was in fact the person being praised there for creation." But Paul never wrote such a thing.

Even though you agree these verses can only be referred to God you incorrectly assume the new testament authors makes it a reference to Jesus.
You write that only God can have such a description but you confuse yourself by stating that you believe the trinity which suggests that because the son and spirit share the nature of God, they share this unique nature which belongs solely to God. So the Father who is creator is just one of the creators and not that he sent forth his spirit and his word..

For you, this reconciles many scriptures attributing the Father's unique characteristics to others. Are you sure it does?
How do you reconcile that God who doesn't lie said He will send his son but then He comes Himself and pretends to be a man and then prays to Himself and then dies and resurrects telling Mary wait I want to go and show me to myself before I see the rest of you.

No, the issue you can be reconciled with is how God can highly elate a man who was born like you but without sin to a position right beside him if that man original isn't God. Therefore how then can you believe what Jesus said that just as he is we will be, with God or do you then understand it that we will become almighty God worshipping ourselves.

How do you reconcile the scripture with your understanding?

Why don't you tell us where the spirit of God was called God and not the spirit of God, don't assume that "At times the bible uses the word God in reference to God the Father, in some cases to the Son or the Holy Spirit." And continue in your error because you want to believe it.

This is what I said that you quoted, "so you do understand and by the way the subject here isn't the divinity of Jesus but if he is God. Of course there is only one God and then only one mediator and son, Jesus Christ" yet what you wrote doesn't contradict what i have written but shows your stubborn refusal to accept the truth that Jesus is the son of God.

"You say Jesus was not appointed to be the exact FACSIMILE of God"
Facsimile being copy of God, what is the force of greek you speak of, when I am speaking about the truth of God. Philippians 2:6 speaks of God's form, as to refer to God's nature the same nature we as children of God are to have. The nature that came by the Holy Spirit and the power of the Most High God. Does that make Jesus God?

There is no argument from me that Jesus has the same nature with God, for Jesus is Holy

But if the Father is Holy, the son is Holy, the spirit is Holy and the saints are Holy why is it trinity and not quadranity if equality on identity is based on one's nature, shouldn't they all be equal according to your logic which attempts to deny my reprove to you who said based on what Jesus did and i asked you does that make Elijah and Moses God as well?!


"God the Father occupies a headship role in the divine council." What divine council, did the 24 elders help God to create anything or anybody?
And here you say, "So almost all things are credited to Him, I think this made us think that He is the only one involved." Sorry not say you accuse God, like that servant who buried his talent, that He takes credit from what others have done,
So God the Father to you is a thief taking credit from work he didn't do, seeing as he collects glory from others abi? Of course even the devil the representative of evil must have helped shaped our world but all credit must go to God instead abi?

Do you see the result of this deception, you fail to acknowledge who God is so you bring doubt to his credibility in accepting glory and credit due him, "make us think he is the only one involved"

At first he lied and now he is a thief are you sure the God you worship isn't satan and not the Father?

"The incarnation brought more revelation to us that in fact Jesus was sharing in all the glory given to God the Father when in heaven."
Like Job asked whose spirit is speaking to you and through you? If he was sharing the Father's glory does that make him God? Does your son not share in the things you own, do we not have hope to receive glory from God, whose glory would we share when we resurrect?

John.17.5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. (NIV)

If Jesus was God the Father would he make sure a request to He who is higher than Him. The One who gave him the glory would restore it in greater measure for Jesus received a name above every other name. Would it have been a reward if he was God or if he has such a name to begin with?

Gen 1:26 God said let us, do you know who he was speaking to?
Then you would understand why in Gen 1:27 God created man not in "our image" but in His "own image" do you understand the mystery and revelation as to divide the difference between our image and his image so as to relate it with what happens in Genesis 2?

So why assume that the "our" refers to other gods beside God?

I don't know what you think you know of whatever divine council you speak of or was taught to you, but it is wise to grow first with what God reveals...

How do I begin to tell you that grieving the Holy Spirit is different from blamsphemy and that the Lord holding a person guilty and punishing them doesn't mean they are beyond forgiveness even for blamsphemy and using his name in vain. Or did you think Jesus was the first to reveal that speaking against the Spirit of God will bring divine punishment? But a last it is better to be punished on earth than to perish in hell, so even if the name of the LORD whom the Spirit carries is be holy and not associated with evil nor vain things, men will be punished but not condemned but will be condemned it they repent not.

If you understand you won't wonder if the Spirit is higher or has a different authority different from the Father whereas the Holy Spirit is the authority from the Father just as His word is powerful.


It is because the Holy Spirit is God's authority that claiming deliverance done through that authority is done by demons is blamsphemy. Do you understand?

Sand2022:
Jesus is evidently the one who made that statement. But that is another topic.

I agree we are not to have another besides God, however, there are many places where Jesus is worshipped, even in his christophanic appearances in the OT. What Trinity teaching is doing is to bring a summary of whom God is so as not to ignore other scriptures that presents someone else who is worshipped. Let me give one example of what I mean.

Now, the scripture you quoted above shows we shouldn't worship another God, but notice what happened at Josh 5:14-15. Pls read it.

First, do you agree that the Prince of Jehovah's Army is Jesus? If yes, do you agree he was worshipped there? Additionally, check rev 5:8-14. Do you agree Jesus is worshipped there as Jehovah is?

So which way can you have another Deity besides Jehovah? Don't you think that seeing them as having one essence help dispel any contradictions?



Perhaps you didn't mean to make Jesus inanimate, but the analogy seem to suggest that. What I think you mean is that Jesus was just an Agent through which God made things, as such, God is the creator and not Jesus.

I used to see it that way before, but I saw one scripture that challenged that. Let's see Heb 1:10-12

And: “At the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you will remain; and just like a garment, they will all wear out, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as a garment, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never come to an end.”

Here we see Jesus clearly praised as the creator. All creation are the work of Jesus hands.

This verse is taken from Psalm 102:25-27. A place used to praise God for his creations. Here Paul is saying that Jesus was in fact the person being praised there for creation.

Will you not agree that if Jesus was just an agent and nothing more like me and you are as we preach the goodness, he will not need to be praised for what he did as an Agent? Notice the final words;

"and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as a garment, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never come to an end."

This verse can only refer to God. God is the only one who is immutable. Also confirm from Heb 13:8. Only God can have that description.

What Trinity is saying is that this unique nature possess by God the Father is shared by both the Son and the Spirit. For me, this reconciles many scriptures attributing the Father's unique characteristics to others.




At times the bible uses the word God in reference to God the Father, in some cases to the Son or the Holy Spirit. These three have God being used for them in a unique way as to the Supreme Deity. So if there were no place what is unique to God is assigned to others, I don't think we will be having this conversation now. But there are, and you have to reconcile it.




Jesus was not appointed to be the exact FACSIMILE of His very BEING. Maybe you might need to see the force of that Greek word. This means that all the unique attribute of God is the exact same Jesus has. This is not the same as creatures have. We still see a similar phrasing at Phil 2. God's FORM. check that in Greek as well.

There is no way to escape Jesus nature as being same with God the Father. This is what the scripture says, not trinitarians.

God the Father occupies a headship role in the divine council. So almost all things are credited to Him, I think this made us think that He is the only one involved. The incarnation brought more revelation to us that in fact Jesus was sharing in all the glory given to God the Father when in heaven. (John 17:5)
Gen 1:26 gave us a hint that only one person is not involved, but it wasnt clearly revealed then.

Being at God's right hand or receiving authority from Him doesn't change his nature. It only shows that God the Father as the head is credited with assigning roles and authority. It also shows that humility rules even within the divine council. It doesn't diminish the nature. Jesus subjects to the father as well. Scholars call this functions or roles within the divine council.

Consider this, people have grieved God before and was forgiven, but if you grieve the Holy Spirit, you won't be forgiven. That doesn't mean the Spirit is greater than God the Father, but it is the role the Spirit occupies that make him have that authority.

Ps.2.11 - Serve the LORD with fear, And rejoice with trembling.
Ps.2.12 - Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

NLT puts verse 12
Ps.2.12 Submit to God's royal son, or he will become angry, and you will be destroyed in the midst of your pursuits--for his anger can flare up in an instant. But what joy for all who find protection in him! (NLT)

Even God himself said, listen to my son, obey him.

God put everything under his feet.

When you bow to your king or knee to your father as a form of honor and submission do you realise that worship in Hebrew meant to knee, to bow.

Every honor we receive we give to God, even Jesus said worship the Father did he not? If He was the Father and said such would He not be an author of confusion? And not the author of faith!

You said Jesus was evidently the one who made the statement in Exodus 20 but then you quoted Joshua 5:14-15 to claim the same speaker is Jesus, is he then confused as to who he is? No it is those who reject the truth that are confused.

You write, "What Trinity teaching is doing is to bring a summary of whom God is..." But this isn't true, what trinity teaching has done is to corrupt what John wrote when he mentioned three witnesses in heaven, not three Gods.

To you question, "If yes, do you agree he was worshipped there?" Yes he was
But to your question,"Do you agree Jesus is worshipped there as Jehovah is?" I say NO, Jehovah was honoured and Jesus was honored

In no where in Revelation 5:8-14 was the Lamb referred to as Jehovah through out the honor given to him, Jehovah was honoured, Jesus was honored. Rev.5.13 - Everyone said: "Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"

So which way can you have another Deity besides Jehovah?
Jesus WAS NEVER WORSHIPPED AS GOD, but as the son of God. Even Princes are honoured because of their Father, but never as their father, it is rebellion for a prince to be called a king while his father is king but it's different because the Father is God and the Son is king. And God is higher than the king.

Don't you think that seeing them as having one essence help dispel any contradictions? Having one essence doesn't mean being the same person, having the essence of holiness makes one of the same family being one doesn't mean being equal it just means being united.

"What I think you mean is that Jesus was just an Agent through which God made things, as such, God is the creator and not Jesus.." Yes that is what I mean and that's why John said the word became flesh and dwelt among us and not that God become flesh and dwelt among us. God is creator and Jesus is the means.

Let's look at and read Hebrews 1:10-12
Isaiah 51:13 Isaiah calls Jehovah the creator maker, who stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth.

Hebrews 1:13, But to which of the angels has He ever said: "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool"?

Who is the He, Hebrews is referring to? The He who is LORD the maker of heaven and earth, who doesn't perish but remains the same.

You say it is taken from Psalm 102, let's read it
Ps.102.22 When the peoples are gathered together, And the kingdoms, to serve the LORD (Jehovah)
Ps.102.24 I said, "O my God, Do not take me away in the midst of my days; Your years are throughout all generations.
Ps.102.25 Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

In the beginning You? Who? JEHOVAH GOD. When then do you see with your understanding something else?


Yet you wrote, "Paul is saying that Jesus was in fact the person being praised there for creation." But Paul never wrote such a thing.

Even though you agree these verses can only be referred to God you incorrectly assume the new testament authors makes it a reference to Jesus.
You write that only God can have such a description but you confuse yourself by stating that you believe the trinity which suggests that because the son and spirit share the nature of God, they share this unique nature which belongs solely to God. So the Father who is creator is just one of the creators and not that he sent forth his spirit and his word..

For you, this reconciles many scriptures attributing the Father's unique characteristics to others. Are you sure it does?
How do you reconcile that God who doesn't lie said He will send his son but then He comes Himself and pretends to be a man and then prays to Himself and then dies and resurrects telling Mary wait I want to go and show me to myself before I see the rest of you.

No, the issue you can be reconciled with is how God can highly elate a man who was born like you but without sin to a position right beside him if that man original isn't God. Therefore how then can you believe what Jesus said that just as he is we will be, with God or do you then understand it that we will become almighty God worshipping ourselves.

How do you reconcile the scripture with your understanding?

Why don't you tell us where the spirit of God was called God and not the spirit of God, don't assume that "At times the bible uses the word God in reference to God the Father, in some cases to the Son or the Holy Spirit." And continue in your error because you want to believe it.

This is what I said that you quoted, "so you do understand and by the way the subject here isn't the divinity of Jesus but if he is God. Of course there is only one God and then only one mediator and son, Jesus Christ" yet what you wrote doesn't contradict what i have written but shows your stubborn refusal to accept the truth that Jesus is the son of God.

"You say Jesus was not appointed to be the exact FACSIMILE of God"
Facsimile being copy of God, what is the force of greek you speak of, when I am speaking about the truth of God. Philippians 2:6 speaks of God's form, as to refer to God's nature the same nature we as children of God are to have. The nature that came by the Holy Spirit and the power of the Most High God. Does that make Jesus God?

There is no argument from me that Jesus has the same nature with God, for Jesus is Holy

But if the Father is Holy, the son is Holy, the spirit is Holy and the saints are Holy why is it trinity and not quadranity if equality on identity is based on one's nature, shouldn't they all be equal according to your logic which attempts to deny my reprove to you who said based on what Jesus did and i asked you does that make Elijah and Moses God as well?!


"God the Father occupies a headship role in the divine council." What divine council, did the 24 elders help God to create anything or anybody?
And here you say, "So almost all things are credited to Him, I think this made us think that He is the only one involved." Sorry not say you accuse God, like that servant who buried his talent, that He takes credit from what others have done,
So God the Father to you is a thief taking credit from work he didn't do, seeing as he collects glory from others abi? Of course even the devil the representative of evil must have helped shaped our world but all credit must go to God instead abi?

Do you see the result of this deception, you fail to acknowledge who God is so you bring doubt to his credibility in accepting glory and credit due him, "make us think he is the only one involved"

At first he lied and now he is a thief are you sure the God you worship isn't satan and not the Father?

"The incarnation brought more revelation to us that in fact Jesus was sharing in all the glory given to God the Father when in heaven."
Like Job asked whose spirit is speaking to you and through you? If he was sharing the Father's glory does that make him God? Does your son not share in the things you own, do we not have hope to receive glory from God, whose glory would we share when we resurrect?

John.17.5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. (NIV)

If Jesus was God the Father would he make sure a request to He who is higher than Him. The One who gave him the glory would restore it in greater measure for Jesus received a name above every other name. Would it have been a reward if he was God or if he has such a name to begin with?

Gen 1:26 God said let us, do you know who he was speaking to?
Then you would understand why in Gen 1:27 God created man not in "our image" but in His "own image" do you understand the mystery and revelation as to divide the difference between our image and his image so as to relate it with what happens in Genesis 2?

So why assume that the "our" refers to other gods beside God?

I don't know what you think you know of whatever divine council you speak of or was taught to you, but it is wise to grow first with what God reveals...

How do I begin to tell you that grieving the Holy Spirit is different from blamsphemy and that the Lord holding a person guilty and punishing them doesn't mean they are beyond forgiveness even for blamsphemy and using his name in vain. Or did you think Jesus was the first to reveal that speaking against the Spirit of God will bring divine punishment? But a last it is better to be punished on earth than to perish in hell, so even if the name of the LORD whom the Spirit carries is be holy and not associated with evil nor vain things, men will be punished but not condemned but will be condemned it they repent not.

If you understand you won't wonder if the Spirit is higher or has a different authority different from the Father whereas the Holy Spirit is the authority from the Father just as His word is powerful.


It is because the Holy Spirit is God's authority that claiming deliverance done through that authority is done by demons is blamsphemy. Do you understand?

Sand2022:
Don't forget that the given authority is during Jesus incarnation. People do miss the fact that Jesus performed two functions, one as human for the salvation of man, and one in his Divinity. During Jesus Christophany, as we see in the Old Testament, Jesus doesn't come at that time as if he was given authority by God. He came as God intoto. Consider his appearance to Adam and his wife. Did you see Jesus then saying, God told me to tell you? He came as God. Even Jehovah's witnesses acknowledged that Jesus may have been the one appearing then.

I think Jesus Redemptive role is what people mistake and I see why many see it that way, I saw it so before.

If we read the praise given to Jehovah at Isaiah 6:1-3, we will think the person on the throne is God the father right? But John 12:41 tells us that Jesus was the one there. So don't confuse Jesus Redemptive role with his Divinity.

Matt.28.18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been GIVEN to Me in heaven and on earth.


You can continue deceiving yourself but for the sake of others...


Isa.6.3 And one cried to another and said: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD(YHVH) of hosts; The whole earth is full of His glory!"

Rev.4.8 - The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!"

Rev.4.11 - "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."

Rev.5.1 - And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals.
Rev.5.2 - Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?"
Rev.5.3 - And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.

Rev.5.5 - But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."
Rev.5.6 - And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
Rev.5.7 - Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.


John.12.41 - These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

Isaiah indeed spoke and revealed Jesus but you went and quoted Isaiah 6 because you believe everything Isaiah wrote is about the son abi?!

Please don't answer

MightySparrow:
Let your answer be in affirmative nah.

Did he say if you don't observe Sabbath you will go to hell?

None of the references you qouted say don't pay.

When it comes to financial commitment you people complain. It has not come to giving, you give excuses because of names.
Okay be giving 11%

Oh, pastors will spend it .

Funny I never typed anything against giving, for Jesus expects us to give especially to his little ones who are hungry, thirsty need shelter clothes and the like. But the purpose some of you give is like you are making a business deal with God and not obeying your Father.

What is my own if you give 10% or 80% it is your money and resources to begin with, I am not your God I am just a servant.

And even as a servant who depends on freewill gifts I will still stick to what Jesus said

Jesus said you go against the commands of God who says honor your parents by following your traditions and teachings by your law teachers who tell you as long as your money is consecrated abi dedicated to God you don't have to give your parents anything.

When you feel paying tithe is more important than being kind and good to others, even your parents and family members are you not wicked in the eyes of God who values mercy and obedience.


Jesus told the rich man obey the commandments and you will enter life, and then he told him give to the poor and you will be perfect having great rewards in heaven. Jesus didn't tell the rich man to give him the money, he didn't tell him to give thr temple or God the money neither did Jesus tell him to do so so that the rich man will become a billionaire yet some will claim Jesus collects tithe.

Here are some of the words shared in the new testament concerning suffering

Let's also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces endurance; and endurance, character; and character, hope. (Paul; Romans 5:3-4)

It is an opportunity to rejoice when trouble and trials come your way, for the testing of your faith produces endurance, and when you have suffered long you will develop strong character, becoming mature perfect and complete ready for anything. (James; James 1:2-4)


Look humble yourselves under God's mighty hand and He will lift you up at the right time, stop being anxious for what you want and cast your cares upon Him for He cares for you. Better be careful at this point in your life because your enemy the devil is looking for whom to devour, so resist him by standing firm in faith, with knowledge that you are not alone, knowing that all over the whole your brothers and sisters in Christ are suffering as well.
And knowing that this suffering won't last forever, let's have this hope, for the God of all grace who called us to His eternal glory through Christ Jesus will restore, strengthen and perfect us after we have suffered a while. (Peter; 1 Peter 5:6-10)

Blessed and happy are the humble who are patient for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are those who suffer persecution because of righteousness for theirs is the kingdom of God, happy you should be when you are insulted, mocked and accused because you are my followers, rejoice and be glad for great will be your reward in heaven. (Jesus; Matthew 5:3-12)


What are you suffering for the sake of Christ rejoice because (Rom.8.18) *For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.*

1Pet.4.15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people's matters. (NKJV)

1Pet.4.16 If anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.


Jesus speaking about new convert Saul, Acts.9.16 - For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."


1Pet.4.15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people's matters.


Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. (1 Peter 4:12-14)



Why are some believers so much against suffering?
Why do some see others who suffer as sinners, like Job's friends did to him?

Forgetting 1Cor.12.26 - And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

Why do some who claim to follow Jesus who suffered say because he suffered we are not meant to suffer?

Phil.1.29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,...

1Pet.4.1 So then, since Christ suffered physical pain, you must arm yourselves with the same attitude he had, and be ready to suffer, too. For if you are willing to suffer for Christ, you have decided to stop sinning.
(Heb.12.4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.)


If love suffers, why do some say they love but can't suffer for another, is their love cold or real?
1Cor.13.4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;

2Cor.1.7 And our hope for you is steadfast, because we know that as you are partakers of the sufferings, so also you will partake of the consolation.

even the fruit of the Holy Spirit you are to bear as believers includes long suffering
Gal.5.22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,...


Prayer Point Today
Father your mighty hand upon my life will make me and not break me. Today I come before you to say thank you, for your training and the treasures that await me at the end.

TGIF

TGIF

MightySparrow:
Jesus condemned tithing?

No he commanded it, did you see him say we all must tithe or go to hell

MightySparrow:
You seem not to understand what you are discussing. After Adam and Eve were evicted from the Garden of Eden, everything man was doing to connect back to God was what became accepted. Only two things were originated by God: redemption using animals to replace the death He said to be the judgement for eating from the forbidden tree, the other was marriage between man and woman. We could imply both water and spirit baptism by Noah and his ark

Covenant was Abraham's idea, because he didn't believe a simple promise.though started by Noah, sacrifice was by Cain and Abel, no records they were taught by Adam, prayer started in the days of Enos son of Seth. Tithing started with Abraham, Jacob made it a vow. Moses incorporated it in his Law for the Levites.. ( Mind you the Law of Moses was different from the ten commandments). Abraham and Levites had one thing in common: God was their inheritance.

So, what has replaced prayer, wedding, sacrifice ( not redemptive by God, the kind that Cain and Abel did)?, covenant, baptisms, vows, circumcision?

In Hebrews, we are told even Levites paid tithe in Abraham. Now Abraham's faith was to give only ten percent. Jesus came to redeem us from the curse of the Law, an additional burden introduced by Moses and sin introduced by Adam and connected us to blessings of Abraham.
If it was necessary for Levites to have paid in Abraham, why?

Jesus corrected the idea of Sabbath, because He is the Sabbath Himself. He corrected the idea of divorce and didn't correct the idea of tithing. Why?

You that seems to understand what you are saying. Care to explain, "everything man was doing to connect back to God was what became accepted."

So Cain was also accepted abi?


And what is this nonsense, "Only two things were originated by God: redemption using animals to replace the death He said to be the judgement for eating from the forbidden tree, the other was marriage between man and woman."

Did God ever save people through animal sacrifice or through their obedience to Him?

Wait I didn't know a wedding occured in the garden of Eden?

Anyway, so to you who has understanding only redemption and marriage came from God, only those two things 🙄🤔

"Covenant was Abraham's idea, because he didn't believe a simple promise." The same Abraham called father of faith because he believed God or is there another Abraham the one who gave God the idea of covenant? Mr Understanding.

Even your question is dumb, "what replaced wedding prayer and sacrifice" must everyone get married, didn't Jesus speak the truth that not all will marry, didn't Paul not marry. Jesus said go and understand what it means, God desires mercy and not sacrifice. Mr Understanding do you understand what it means?


Do you understand your question, even the author of Hebrews would be ashamed for you

"Why didn't Jesus correct the idea of tithing"

Twice Jesus mentions tithing in the gospel both were of bad examples

One was even a woe

Matt.23.23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving them undone.


Luke.18.11-12 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'


Tithing is not a justification for wickedness nor self praise. You mentioned Sabbath, just as Sabbath was made for man and not man for Sabbath, tithing for made for man and not man for tithing. When your interpretation of tithing leads to evil just as their interpretation of Sabbath did, you are just as evil as they were.

MightySparrow:
Tithing preceded the Law of Moses nah

really? show us where God commanded anyone to tithe before the laws of moses 😏

Ken4Christ:
OK. Thanks for reminding me he brought wine and bread.

But, come to think of it. If tithing wasn't important, he would have asked Abraham not to bother about it. He blessed Abraham and Abraham gave him tithe if all he had.

And Jesus is an high Priest after the order of Melchizedec.

So, give him your tithe and he will receive it.

oh so you at least know he blessed Abraham before and not after Abraham gave him 10% of loot he didn't take

I am not Abraham na, did Jesus ask me for tithe, did Melchizedek even ask Abraham for 10%

Besides how do you even give Jesus your tithe? Should we wait for him to come with bread and wine as well? Or wait till we get some loot 😊

AntiChristian:
Mark's quote from Mark 1:2-3
As it is written in Isaiah the prophet: “Behold, I will send My messenger ahead of You, who will prepare Your way.” “A voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for Him.

What Isaiah actually said in Isaiah 40:3:
A voice of one calling: “Prepare the way for the LORD in the wilderness; make a straight highway for our God in the desert.
But
Malachi 3:1
“Behold, I will send My messenger, who will prepare the way before Me. Then the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to His temple— the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight— see, He is coming,” says the LORD of Hosts.

"Behold i will send my messenger" is actually from Malachi not Isaiah!

Mtcheeew this one is even small, thought it was Matthew's own you mentioned


If you have a problem with what Mark wrote just go and rest, humans makes mistake but the point is, the message passed.

Gabrielshow24:
Is that your next course of action?
result to insults.

Am not surprised, you brought the logic of Governor and president after your conclusion was squashed you result to abuse.

👀By their fruits we shall know them.

No hostilities bro, if your logic is strong and backed with unequivocal biblical proofs then I will concede but if not go and read.

abuse?! 🙄🤣🤣 You really lack understanding.

Ken4Christ:
You give in accordance to the level of your faith.

so tithe you pay according to the law of Moses is now what?

Ken4Christ:
To let you know how important tithe is, Jesus is made an high priest after the order of Melchizedec. And the only record we have about Melchizedec is that he received tithe and blessed Abraham. He appeared only for that purpose. Tithing is a spiritual principle.

🤣😂🤣😂

So according to you Melchizedek appeared ONLY to collect material stuffs from Abraham 🤔
Not to bring wine and break bread and bless him o 🙄, just to collect money 😏

Don't go and repent, stay here and be typing nonsense.

MightySparrow:
Jesus didn't not come to give any laws. Show us where Jesus gave Laws like Moses.

why should one who is greater be compared with he who is lesser.


Ask me to show you where Jesus gave us commands and stop pretending to be wise asking, "gave laws like Moses"

Copy and paste the link, remove the brackets and spaces and load the link.

Don't forget to copy link and add the dots in-between

Hallo

MightySparrow:
So the problem is the name tithe?

the problem is that you avoid answering by asking irrelevant things