₦airaland Forum

Gabrielshow24:
Even your logic fails.
The presidency is a title anyone that holds it, holds its power.

It doesn't matter whether Jesus is the president or balablu all that matters is that whosoever that holds it, wields it power.

But God is not a composite God hence it is not because of his power that he is God neither is it by other attributes Is he God, he is just God.

The major flaw in human reasoning is that this attributes are what we believe makes up divine or Godship hence whosever that possesses such holds the same equivalent as God.

It's in that wisdom where God can hand over everything to Jesus because in the first place all things are separate from him(loosely- he that reads should use understanding 👀).

Hence your logic just corroborates my statement and your assertion proves Jesus even more as God's equal.

Hence by all the attributes that God possesses he too possesses them all.

The only difference is that the Father is the originator and the source of everything; that's why Honor is given unto whom Honor is due.


How hard is this to understand 🤷🏾‍♂️?

ah you obviously lack understanding of what I wrote but it is understandable because your stubbornness is like iniquity and idolatry

Ken4Christ:
By Christ standard, we ought to give all. That is 100%. But I am not there yet. One day I will give all. For now, I give at least 30% for tithe and ministry and another 30% for benevolence. I spend less than 30% for personal needs.

Wake up my friend and give more.

which nonsense you are not there yet, who deceived you?

So those who gave all in the bible were doing it step by step abi

Ken4Christ:
They are not cursed as long as you do it not bases on the Law. Abraham gave tithe when there was no law and he was blessed. We walk in the footsteps of Abraham who is the father of faith.

so wasn't he blessed before?

By the way why didnt Isaaac pay tithe?

Ken4Christ:
Was Abraham under the Law when he paid tithe?

Was Jacob under the Law when he vowed to pay his tithe?

who asked him to make a vow?

Where or when did he fulfill that vow?

Is it the pouring oil on a rock was his 10%?

Ken4Christ:
It will lead to financial rest. I am the seed of Abraham and his blessing rest on me.

you are the seed of Abraham? It's not Jesus again but you?

Please tell us which blessing rests on you?

MightySparrow:
Show me where Jesus condemned tithing and giving in the gospels.

show us where Jesus commanded tithing in the gospels

Emusan:
It's so funny how you read FIRSTBORN in Col 1:15 but in your statement it was changed to FIRST CREATION

Do you thing Paul who wrote Col 1:15 didn't know that there's a word for FIRST CREATION before he used FIRSTBORN?

If you read down to verse 18 then you will know why FIRSTBORN IS ACCURATELY used rather than FIRST CREATED.

The term firstborn is about PREEMINENCE NOT about creation.



So, JESUS IS A CREATOR.

Or didn't the verse you quoted here said Jesus was involved in CREATION?




Not entirely true.

Jesus was called God many times.



If I was given a power to become PRESIDENT, am I PRESIDENT or not?



The sun has limited power, even you have your own power.

But the point from the OP is OMNIPOTENT attributes as seen in that Heb 1:2 being used for Jesus. NO CREATURE CAN SUSTAINED THE WHOLE UNIVERSE.

One of the attributes that makes God to be God is UNLIMITED POWER - OMNIPOTENT.

You may want to seem wise but you can't when you lack knowledge. The very word Paul wrote in Col 1:15 is the greek word prototokos which means first as in eldest.

Why not go by your logic and say God had sex with his wife and gave birth to Jesus and then he created other things, or worse still, why not say God had sex with himself and got pregnant with Jesus so that it debunks the fact Jesus was created

After all babies are not created they are born 🤦🏿‍♂️

MightySparrow:
Are twisting things or making things up?
Abraham met Melchizedek only once.
Later in Law, it was said that tithes was to be given to priests, and the needy.

So, Abraham gave to Melchizedek because he recognized him to be a representative of God.


So I don't see your point here. I still ask if you are advocating not giving anything to God?

how does not giving tithe equate to not giving anything to God?
From where did you get such wisdom to ask such question?

Gabrielshow24:
A lot of people miss the entire point.

And as such cannot grasp the concept of Jesus' equality to God.

Like I said earlier Jesus predates time.
Now saying that he attains the fullness of God will not be totally accurate because the term " attain" insinuates the presence of time.

Now if he predates time and from our little scientific study of black holes, we perceive anything at the event horizon as being stationary.

Hence Jesus had already been in the fullness of the Father

Now as regards Jesus being God.
Logic tells you that some certain positions come with power.
Have you not heard of those that have become presidents/Governors for a day?

In that very day, whatsoever they do in that office it's as if the Governor hath done it.

Now Jesus said all power in Heaven and on Earth have been given unto me.
Hence by Power he has the equivalent of God!
And other verses confirm likewise that his reign will be forever adding the "eternal characteristics of God to the equation"

From scriptures we see that Jesus has the seven spirits of God all pointing to the fact that he has/had attain(ed) the fullness of God!

But wisdom demands that you give honor to whom honor is due.

Mind you when you finish your tertiary institution you get a certificate to show that you have completed your study!
It doesn't matter how many finished but as soon as they are done they are called graduates!

Miss which point, you skip what God and Jesus says to write down your own logic and you fail to realise your own logic fails you. If God is above heaven and earth and everything or all power in heaven and earth is given to Jesus how does he equate to the one who is above all?

Giving honor to the governor is based on understanding he is the governor but you do then call him the president and give him presidential honor?

Ken4Christ:
Thanks for your answer but your answer is not totally right. It was primarily meant to take care of the Levites. The extension to Widows and orphans were done once in 3 years.

And the feasting was done once in a year.

If God cares for those who serve him in his house under the Old Covenant established with the blood of bulls and goats, do you think he cares less about his servants under the New Testament who spread the word of eternal life and deliver souls from the kingdom of darkness?

Please, use your brain.

My only concern is that most churches neglect the poor in their midst.

So, the issue is not the tithe but how it is being managed.

Tithe strengthens the church financially.

If people are left to give whatever they want, the church would not have gotten to where it is today.

This is the last days. Evangelical activities requires funding and souls must be won into God's kingdom faster than they are snatched into hell.

The devil doesn't want it. So he attacks the practice of tithing to weaken the church.

How pathetic can you be?

You deny an answer as being right but fail to show how it is wrong and the error within it. You are pathetic because you took a general simple answer to show your arrogance of knowledge yet you advise others to use their brains while you failed to ever use yours.

Sorry you are not just pathetic you are hypocritical, you thought you were being critical but you are just a hypocrite.
"If people are left to give whatever they want, the church would not have gotten to where it is today"

Because your church is built on money and worships money?

"This last days" so God suddenly changed and told you he needed money (mammon) to save souls.

How would you know what the devil doesn't want when you don't even know what God wants?

You tried to use your brain and your words and ways were foolish, yet you refused to repent nor humble yourself before God. Continue

Sand2022:
Firstborn doesn't mean first creature, try reading verse 16. It helps show why he is called the firstborn. It gives the reason when it says "because by him are all things made".

"by him all things were created" meaning someone used him to create other things and that's understandable seeing that Jesus is the word of God and God created the world through his word. Abi?


Exodus 20 God spoke, He YHVH is God and there is none like Him nor should we have any besides Him.
Was He lying?

Secondly, seeing Jesus as a creature goes against John 1:3 which unambiguously says that "apart from him not EVEN ONE thing was made". That is totally unambiguous.

John 1:3 like I said, it still didn't call him the creator but the means by which the creator made what was made. For example I can't send you this message without a phone, network, data, technology etc. I used this to reach out, do you understand.

Jesus being used by God to create things doesn't affect his divinity. That is if you understand the subject.

so you do understand and by the way the subject here isn't the divinity of Jesus but if he is God. Of course there is only one God and then only one mediator and son, Jesus Christ.

From what you quoted on Heb 1:3, you see clearly that Jesus is the exact representation of His very BEING. the point of Trinity is exactly that, Jesus is of the same essence as God the Father. Sustaining the all things by the word of His power can only be work done by the Almighty for that would mean sustaining even all creatures, angels, humans, universe etc. A creature cannot do this.

What exactly did I write or quote, anyway I am certain I wrote and you read that Jesus is at the right hand of God and not that Jesus is God.

Saying that because Jesus did what God can do makes him God is like saying everyone from Moses to Elijah is God. Do not forget to read verse two that it is God who appointed Jesus to that very position and not Jesus himself.

I don't understand how this fit.

not surprised you do not understand the humility of Jesus

That scripture didn't say the power was given. He is already the exact representation of God's being. So He possess that power essentially.

I don't recall the said scripture, what I do know is that representing God doesn't make him God, just as representing Jesus doesn't make me Jesus

Ken4Christ:
Abraham gave Melchizedek tithes of all he had.

The writer of Hebrews in error said it was tithe of the spoils of war.

How could he have given tithe of the spoils when he rejected the spoils?

Melchizedek is a type of Christ. So, as we give our tithe, we are invariably giving honour to Jesus who is the head of the church.

he you mean Abraham rejected the spoils, so how can they be his? You said he gave from "all he had"? Or do you mean Abraham gave tithes from what was in his house and not what was from that battle field?


You say "Melchizedek is a type of Christ" , another question is are we in Christ or in Abraham?

Sand2022:
We will look at col 1:17

Colossians 1:17 He existed before everything else began, and he holds all creation together.

A creature cannot possibly do that. Heb 1:3 tells us more.

Hebrews 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Notice that Jesus is here said to uphold ALL things by the word of His power. This is not just elevating all things, but the point is that Christ sustains ALL things, universe, humans, animals etc, by the word of His power. So after creating all things, He also sustains ALL things.

Also take note of the Power aspect. Such power must be the Highest form of power there is. For the power of a creature cannot possibly sustain all things.

This doesn't sound like what an ordinary creature can do. Does it?

Tags: Aemmyjah, achorladey, Jozzy4, MaxInDHouse, MightySparrow, NowYouKnow, TemmyT002, johnw47, Boomark, Emusan, Dtruthspeaker.

almost forgot this post exists, saw it the day I was so busy

I know someone may have been led by God to respond to you but incase why not read verse 15 before verse 17

Col.1.15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (KJV)

Jesus being the first creation of God isn't God Himself the creator of all who used him to make others

Heb.1.2 But now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he made the universe and everything in it. (NLT)
Heb.1.3 The Son reflects God's own glory, and everything about him represents God exactly. He sustains the universe by the mighty power of his command. After he died to cleanse us from the stain of sin, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God of heaven. (NLT)


Is Jesus undermined by being called son of God and not God? Do you think he is that proud like the devil who wants to be who he is not?

The power of a creature? The question is who gave the power.

The sun shines everyday how can the sun have so much power to illuminate all the earth, it was given so.

chevrolet60:
A mentor, a coach, a spiritual father who can lead me to Christ is all I want now. Life without Christ is often characterized with crises.

Matt.16.24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. (ALL)

Jesus said we should make disciples so if you are ready to
1. Deny yourself
2. Pick up your cross

Then you can be discipled and follow Jesus chat me 07034883485

Seconded 😎

Kennitrust:
https://www./2024/10/20/stop-brainwashing-poor-members-with-sowing-seed-pastor-kumuyi-tells-pastors/?utm_source=operamini&utm_medium=feednews&utm_campaign=operamini_feednews

kumuyi kumuyi, when a tithe collector calls out seed collectors it's like, let me not talk 🤐😁😬

MightySparrow:
Nope, he met Melchizedek only once.
You meet your local church priests and workers and the needy everytime. So pay everytime.

Melchizedek who's king that Abraham meet GAVE to, was probably not needy so Abraham didn't meet any single needy persons for such act to be recorded by Moses as an example.

How is this following Abraham's example
Are the local church priests Melchizedek?
Did Abraham pay every time?
Or are you making things up 😏?🙂

MightySparrow:
Show me where Jesus condemned tithing and giving in the gospels.

lol I should show you where, did I tell you Jesus did?

Even if he did, would you even accept it? 😏

MightySparrow:
Make your question clearer then.

you said 10% is even small

Then I am asking you is it small to the poor to whom the blessings are giving to for free?

Or are you saying God doesn't bless the poor or that his blessings to them are not for free? Or that God has to charge the poor for blessing them?

Because this blessings are according to you Abraham's blessings that are to be paid for right?

MightySparrow:
None of appreciation to God by Abraham, recognized by Jacob, made a Law to Israel to be more than 10% by Christians under grace.

So, do you now advocate nothing to be giving to God?

I am not am advocate o, but speaking of advocates, was it recorded in the gospels Jesus commanding you should to give money to God?


So you NONE, meaning tithe is neither part of the promise nor the gospel

But yet you write "more than 10% by Christians under grace." Please tell us what is your basis for this statement?

MightySparrow:
I don't understand.
Do you advocate not giving to God? If no, what percentage?

you don't understand is that why you did not answer and you are asking me a question instead?

Ken4Christ:
Why did God include it in the Law of Moses? Please, give an honest answer.

To take care of the Levites, to feed the poor, widows, orphans less privileged strangers etc, and for them to eat and celebrate before God, God's blessings upon the land for the past year.

🤔 What else ehmm 🤔

MightySparrow:
Yes. I know. Thanks for the observation. Many will be arguing that tithe is of the Law and it is not so.

is the tithe then of the "promise" or of the gospel?

MightySparrow:
Nope.
You qouted what suits you.


Why did you omit the one that talks about Abraham's giving to Melchizedek and that even the Levites gave in Abraham?

Galatians 3:13-14
[13]Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
[14 ] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The problem is that folks want the blessings of Abraham not his deeds.

Again,
Isa.51.1 - Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.
Isa.51.2 - Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.


So, if Abraham is the owner of the blessings Jesus came to link us with, do his deeds. Even 10% is even smal.

10% is small to the rich to pay for what is free but is it small to the poor to whom the blessings is given to for free?

Ken4Christ:
Tithing was before the Law. We don't give tithe because the law says so. We do, because Abraham our father of faith paid tithe to Melchizedech long before the law was given. And the scripture says that we should walk in the footsteps of Abraham.

and from what did Abraham give that tithe from so that we took can learn and follow his footsteps in giving tithe that way

And how do we meet this Melchizedek or those who are associated with him or represent him

MightySparrow:
Lie Sir. Tithing predates the Law.

Heb.7.5 - And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb.7.6 - But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Heb.7.9 - And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.



Abraham knew nothing about the Law.


Gal.3.17 - And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.


Abraham and faith children are on the same level.

Isa.51.2 - Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
Isa.63.16 - Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.




This prophecy was directed to those who would join Israel later

And seeing as Abraham gave tithe once and for all, for did he give it again or was he required to do so regularly, does that mean others should also give it once and for all as well

Welcum:
I am a Christian struggling with my faith. The reasons behind this struggle is connected to what you posted here. But, I'd like to discuss this privately with you. Thanks.

hope you overcome your struggles in Jesus name

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OkCornel:
Front page please.

how this didn't make front page is just funny


1,000,000 million likes from me sir

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