₦airaland Forum

frosbel: The cars should not be auctioned to the rich members, they should be dashed to poor members.

This looks like a re-circulation of wealth between the rich and middle class , while the poor get ignored.

Brother Frosbel, abeg take am easy. Anybody in Nigeria that can afford to buy a car for 300,000 is NOT a poor person. Believe me!

You people should just let this matter be. The poor you will have with you ALWAYS. I'm a bible teacher and one thing is sure, If Oyedepo had not twisted scriptures to force or coerce this people into giving; then that will be wrong and we can challenge such teachings or giving but in this case, there's nothing wrong with what the people gave because they did it at their own will. As a man purpose in his heart, so let him give - Giving can be anything.

Have you GIVEN you life to Christ? Yes, you, I mean you that is reading my post. Have you GIVEN your life to Christ?

manmustwac: Because he uses the bible to quote the scriptures to his own selfish advantage

MMW, where does Oyedepo use Bible in this case to force the givers into giving? There's nothing like that in this story.

[quote author=Table Leg ]Shut up!
Brainwashed foooooool!![/quote]You don't have to insult me to make your point. Were the givers forced? Mind you, I'm NOT a members of Winners o.

[quote author=~Bluetooth]Not really. . .its called brain-washing and folks have no option than to do the pastor's calling for service to him.

The pope is not as rich as this guy cuz Nigerian churches have been commercialize.christ must be angry I swear ![/quote]I understand you but in this case, if the givers did it willingly. We cannot spit on their face outrightly and since there's no scriptural manipulations to force the people to give. This is clear case of willingness as a man purpose in HIS HEART, so let him give.

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Bless you bro.

manmustwac: NO! They weren't forced to give him. THEY WERE BRAINWASHED!!!

No, MMW, If they were NOT forced but did it on their own account, that's not brainwash. It's just like you giving you money to whoever or whatever you choose to and somebody telling you why did you do that? Are we suppose to say you're also brainwashed for doing what you did? Let's not be quick to judge please.

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You don try my sister. Smiles on my face. Now I understand the angle you're talking from. I do not intend to discard the grace of God when I mentioned discipline. You're right with your words below,

"There's something I need to note also - you made mention of God not having any responsibility in our flesh subjection. I beg to differ. Jesus Christ is at the center of it all. Trust me there is nothing you can do solely on your own especially when you are trying to live a life that is pleasing to God. This is another principle in Christianity that is often misunderstood. You are saved by grace and no amount of self discipline on your part could earn you the grace God has freely given. Now I'm talking from personal experience- things are a lot easier when you walk in the grace that God has freely given. God sees our very core and understands our weaknesses . Being self disciplined can take you a certain distance but relying solely on God to be disciplined would take you where you need to be".

We stand on the same page then when you don't see Christians going for deliverance day in, day out; falling and rolling on the floor etc. Well, our understanding is what differs. I don't see a Christian even though he or she needs to be delivered from self and flesh in certain areas as being called "deliverance". I see it as "building up". When we are building up our Christian life, you know we shred out somethings and we put on somethings. That's the part that has to do with our flesh as we both agree.

Yes, we make mistakes and miss the mark. Certainly we learn from there and move on. The way some people teach this deliverance of a thing is that to make Christians believe one spirit is always after them not to succeed and generational curses had to be broken. I don't know where they got that stuff from. That is to insult to the finished work of Christ on the Cross.

Anyway, I stand with you in the truth of the scriptures. I'm also tired for now, just short reply. Thank you my sister.

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Yes, I hope so also because the link too is NOT sure. The last statement or sentence from the link is inquisitive in itself. Whether it's true or not, as long as the givers were NOT forced to give. People should just let it be.

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http://macksonokotie..co.uk/2013/01/bishop-oyedepo-gets-over-700-cars-as.html?m=1

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But It's none of our business if the givers were NOT forced to give whatever they gave.

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Again, as long as the givers were NOT forced to give. I think it's nobody's business.

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Because trouser covers n.akedness more than skirt. Does that scripture mention trouser? Even if you're reading it to mean trouser and skirts, doesn't women have female trouser? Besides, isn't that written to the Jews? The New Testament ONLY supports moderations and doesn't tell women what to wear or what not to wear. I do NOT by any means teach that a woman should dress n.aked but that scripture was between God and the Jews. If you're gonna obey that scripture, you'll need to read the WHOLE passage and follow other laws in the same passage. Besides, which is better - To wear trouser to church or not wear to church BUT wear outside the church during the week?

Do you want me to quote the whole passage for you?

@ sister Vanneni,

I once said it before to our brother christemmbassey, and will say it again to you - There will come a time when church folk will begin to confront their pastors whenever they teach falsehood because the Spirit of God is spraying a wave of truth across the globe and the truth is prevailing.

computaangel: God frowns at d use of jewelries and ornaments,d point here is whateva will cost u ur salvation sacrifice it

Do you mind showing us scriptures where God frowns at the use of jewelries and ornaments. And how does jewelries and ornament cost you to loose your salvation? Do you mind telling us?

@ Christemmabassy,

I believer many had been "programmed" to believe such. What we need to do is keep teaching the liberating truth. The same way these erroneous teachings grew, they same way people will be liberated sooner. It's a matter of time.

As long as the givers were NEVER forced to give. It's nobody's business.

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The Spirit of God was ministering same message to my heart today - Christ in You, The Hope of Glory! I will add to what you've said here later. There's a thread I'm trynna look for and I'm searching the whole page right now. Please, permit me some time, I will add more to what the Spirit of God is trynna say to the church later when I'm done.

God bless you my dear brother. Keep doing the work of the ministry. Also, I will find time to call you as discussed.

christemmbassey: preach the Gospel, Gospel Gospel, pls leave all these distractions. You ppl never even stop for a moment and ask urselves, why did Christ come to the world? To stnp women from wearing make up? OMG!

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christemmbassey: i told you? The work outside the church is too small, the real challenge is inside the church, imagine what ppl are teaching others, God have mercy.

My brother, NOW I believe you. You're right. It was the religious people that Jesus had to deal with the most during his days on earth. The religious people shut the doors of the kingdom of God against God's people. Too many things going on in the church. OmG, I'm sick off these out-of-context interpretation and religious believes.

@ MostHigh,

This is the reason why NO Christian can keep ALL the 613 laws and commandments etc.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. - Galatians 3(KJV)

In fact, scripture calls people that teaches Christians to follow Jewish regualtions false brethren.

New Living Translation
Even that question came up only because of some so-called Christians there--false ones, really--who were secretly brought in. They sneaked in to spy on us and take away the freedom we have in Christ Jesus. They wanted to enslave us and force us to follow their Jewish regulations. - Galatians 2:4

Stop telling Christians to follow the Jewish regulations, Christian were NEVER under that covenant.

King James Version (KJV)
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: - 1 Peter 3:1-5

Erroneous believe and teachings that women cannot wear gold, women cannot plait their hair etc. Where do you people get all these interpretation and teachings from? So you are saying women cannot take care of their hair or what? They cannot use jewelry? Why can't you people leave scriptures the very way it is rather than reading religious interpretation into it. If you are telling us the scripture is saying woman should not wear gold and women should not plait their hair, you're also saying or teaching women should NOT put on cloths because same scriptures says, "OR OF PUTTING ON OF APPAREL"

What that scripture is saying is that, women should not EXALT their OUTWARD adornment than their INNER beauty. It's saying, It is not the  external things like fancy braided; elaborate hair, gold jewelry, or fine clothes that should make you beautiful or  be your adornment but rather, your beauty should come from within your inner self;  the hidden/secret person of the heart — the beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit that will never be destroyed fade; perish and is very valuable; of great worth to God.

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Let's wait for the OP to tell us where the church is. Besides, driving your best and dream car is NOT a miracle in places like overseas, it's just a matter of good record or credit and job. It's only in places like Nigeria that the minds of the gullible are being manipulated.

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I understand you don't know. Many deceivers are out there. I have come a long way in Christ. I've seen many deceptions in the church people. Herein is my power for living, lemme share with you.

English Standard Version
And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified. - Acts 20:32

It's only God and the word of His Grace that is ABLE TO BUILD YOU UP AND GIVE YOU THE INHERITANCE among ALL those who are sanctified. Think about it! Build you up? Give you THE inheritance? These are not ordinary words, they're powerful if they click to your spirit.

Like our heavenly father has good things in stock and wants us to inherit them. You need to lay hold on God and His word of Grace. Take responsibility for yourself and for your life. God can answer you in prayer of faith (with fasting if possible). If you have come to know Christ, you are righteous in Christ. I don't really know your problem though. Every issues are solved with God in Christ.

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New International Version
We have escaped like a bird out of the fowler's snare; the snare has been broken, and we have escaped. - Psalm 124:7

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That's why while we don't mention names at times; when matters such as this comes, we have to expose them and teach God's people the truth to set the captives free.

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Oga mi, please don't misquote or misunderstand me o. I NEVER teach once saved forever saved o. I was drawing analogy perhaps. Thank you.

^^^ God bless you for that statement - "The word of God has integrity, it can defend itself and doesn't need us to abuse each other".

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I just gave it to you. There's no such thing as spiritual bathing in the New Testament church and with the Apostles. Faith in the finished work of Christ for you will save and deliver you. Wait o, if the pastor already prayed for you as you said, does that mean he doesn't have faith in the prayer he prayed?

Christians need to understand that bathing or washing in the water under the Old testament is a picture (shadow) of water baptism and the washing or cleaning by the word of God. It's all shadows then under the Old and in Christ, Christians have the reality and fulfillment. Here is it,

UNDER THE OLD TESTAMENT

New International Version
Then Moses brought Aaron and his sons forward and washed them with water. - Leviticus 8:6

New International Version
Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow. - Psalm 51:7

New International Version
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. - Ezekiel 36:25

New International Version
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. - John 3:5

New International Version
"No," said Peter, "you shall never wash my feet." Jesus answered, "Unless I wash you, you have no part with me." - John 13:8

New International Version
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. - John 15:3

New International Version
Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. - John 17:17

UNDER THE NEW TESTAMENT, We have the fulfillments and reality in Christ. Take a look,

New International Version
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. - Acts 22:16

King James 2000 Bible
And such were some of you: but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. - 1 Corinthians 6:11

New Living Translation
For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God's word. - Ephesians 5:25-26

@ MostHigh, and Everyone

The following scriptures shows the COVENANT between GOD AND ISRAEL, NOT THE CHURCH and it was under the Old Covenant, NOT under the New Covenant.

King James Version (KJV)
Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God. - Exodus 31:16-18

The below scriptures clearly says the OLD COVENANT are the TEN COMMANDMENTS,

King James Version (KJV)
And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. - Exodus 34:27-28

King James Version (KJV)
And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. - Deuteronomy 4:13

Some people teach that there are different kinds of law such as moral, ceremonial etc laws. God didn't make such distinctions - everything was delivered to Moses AS A UNIT for the children of Israel as confirmed by this scripture.

King James Version (KJV)
And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. - Exodus 24:12

King James Version (KJV)
Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments: - Nehemiah 9:13

What do we have here? Tables of stones, a law or lawS, statutes, judgments and commandments. It was an all inclusive package.

Apostle Paul later identified this Old covenant as the Old Testament calling it "the ministration of death" and says it's done away and abolished in Christ.

King James Version (KJV)
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away....But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. - 2 Corinthians 3:7; 14

Now, coming to Hebrews 8, the Author also identified the covenant (as a whole packages we saw above containing the laws, ten commandments, statutes etc) and says it's done away and abolished.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. - Hebrews 8

King James Version (KJV)
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. - Hebrews 10:9

Put everything in context, the first in Hebrews 10:9 is what is referred to as first covenant in Hebrews 8:7,13. The same is referred to as second which the first was taken away and the new covenant established and ultimately leads to change of the entire law system.

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. - Hebrews 7

King James Version (KJV)
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. - Romans 8:1-4

Remember Apostle Paul identified the written commandments as ministration of death in 2 Corinthians 3:7 and 14 and here is referred same. In deed then, Christ is the END of the ENTIRE law system.

Joagbaje: Many problems Christians go through are demonic. Sickness,fear,addiction,oppression, Where do sickness come from? It's ,softly by spirit of infirmity. Demons can influence a christian and obsess his mind.

I do not intend to argue this statement above but ANY Christian that is being oppressed doesn't know who they are in Christ. Addiction is a function of indiscipline and inability to take responsibility - to subject the body under control and being allowed to follow the dictates of the flesh. You will need to show us a Christian that was demon influenced or possessed in the early church please.

Joagbaje: Many negative emotions are demonic. Self pity,fear of rejection. Anger, bitterness,unforgiveness . What about habits? Addictions to sex,lust,etc. many of theses things are demonic.

Joagbaje, where did you get all these things from? Emotion demonic? Habit demonic? Where did you get all these things from? The bible NEVER called illicit sex, lust, anger, bitterness, unforgiveness etc demonic; the bible calls it WORKS OF THE FLESH. It's the flesh that still controls such Christian(s) that is at work, not demons. The Corinthian church are full of bitterness, malice, strife, contention, jealousy and even many s.exual issues, are they also demonic? Did Apostle Paul or any other Apostle conducted any deliverance session for them? They're Christians but they are such Christians being controlled by the flesh. Why do you ascribe every or most problem(s) in the life of a Christian with demon(s)?

You're simply promoting a gospel of irresponsibility for Christians. As per fear, God has not given Christians the spirit of fear. So what we need to teach Christians is that, fear is of the devil and not part of our redemptive package. You can as well tell us that bathing 4 times daily is demonic because I understand some people like bathing 4-5 times daily and since it's an habit they've developed our the years, then can as well say they're demonic.

Joagbaje: What of oppression. Like barrenness, financial struggle. Family curses etc.

I'm just sick and tired of this your gospel. Again, you can tell us that all those who were barren in the bible were demonic. Those who were poor in the bible were demonic also. Family curses for Christians? or for unbelievers who have not come to Christ? On the cross, Christ BECAME a curse himself. He became the SINNER (who knew no sin) for our redemption. He became the SACRIFICIAL LAMB that was slain for the sins of the world. Again, I understand that some Christians do not know their rights and privileges in Christ; hence they still chase deliverance all about.

Like I replied to WAM above there,

Goshen360: King James 2000 Bible
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree. - Galatians 3:13

In this verse, there's the part that says we're redeemed (past tense) from the curse of the law. However, there's a deeper or greater dimension BEYOND being redeemed from curse of the law and that's BEING MADE (past tense) A CURSE. How can a Christian STILL carry curse when Christ has already being made OR HAD ALREADY BECAME a curse? When a Christian still carry so called generational curse, it's either such Christian doesn't know his/her right and privilege in Christ or such Christian is masquerading (I do not by any means judge). No Christian in the early Church ever went for constant deliverance session.

[quote author=WAM?]Key word spirit filled. I think we play with words a lot. There are different kinds so spirits/ demons. S pirit of disobedience, lying, stealing etc. True a spirit filled Christian should be filled with the spirit of God and we know light and darkness can not co exist and whom the son of man sets free is free indeed. However the key word there is should.[/quote]First, when I said filled with the Spirit (notice my capitalization here and in the comment you responded to) - That's how scripture distinguish between Holy Spirit and human or other evil spirits. By that Capitalization, I meant Spirit of God not spirit as in human spirit or other demonic/satanic spirit(s). I think you're the one mixing things up as you capitalized you "S" when you mentioned spirit of disobedience, lying, stealing etc.

Now, here is the truth you just said - "we know light and darkness can not co exist and whom the son of man sets free is free indeed". If Christ set us free and we're free INDEED. Why do we then attend further unending deliverance sessions year in, year out? This means what Christ did was free but NOT free INDEED.


[quote author=WAM?]Deliverance to some could mean freedom from satanic bondage of some sort and to others it could be from minor habits that do not glorify God. In as much as we hate to admit it- we are spirit, soul and body. Our flesh is in constant battle with the spirit. So even though God did it already we have to continually renew ourselves to overcome this battle with the flesh- that again could be deliverance to some in fact to all.[/quote]@ Bold in black. I agree with you BUT NOT Christians.

@ Bold in red. When a Christian is born again and still indulges in some habits that doesn't glorify God, THAT'S NOT THE DEVIL ANYMORE, THAT'S THE WORK OF THE FLESH! Such Christian has to train and discipline his/her flesh, renew his/her mind through the word of God and prayer and fasting if possible. Such Christian has to put his/her body (UN-regenerated part) under subjection. THAT'S NOT THE DEVIL OR SATANIC BONDAGE, THAT'S TO CRUCIFY THE FLESH!...because your flesh as you said, is never born again and always at war with the spirit.

New Living Translation
Don't you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. - Romans 6:16


[quote author=WAM?]We truly are saved/ delivered by grace but I am of the believe that we need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. In winning any battle in life- you need to be fully aware of your opponents. For example an opponent could be generational issues such as poverty, premature death, barrenness, working like an elephant eating like an ant syndrome' If you are not aware of these things you could fall victim to them. If cancer runs in a family it is only wise to have periodical health screenings.[/quote]@ Bold in black. So your interpretation of working out our salvation with fear and trembling means engaging in an UN-ending deliverance?

@ Bold in red. When I was a baby Christian (I do not claim to know it all now though), my former church always pray the prayer of Jabez in an attempt to break generational curse(s). When I understood what Christ did on the cross and have come to accept full redemption in Christ Jesus, I understand there's NO generational curse for those who are in Christ Jesus.

King James 2000 Bible
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree. - Galatians 3:13

In this verse, there's the part that says we're redeemed (past tense) from the curse of the law. However, there's a deeper or greater dimension BEYOND being redeemed from curse of the law and that's BEING MADE (Past tense) A CURSE. How can a Christian STILL carry curse when Christ has already being made a curse? When a Christian still carry so called generational curse, it's either such Christian doesn't know his/her right and privilege in Christ or such Christian is masquerading (I do not by any means judge). No Christian in the early Church ever went for constant deliverance session.


[quote author=WAM?]We have a lot of dedicated Christians but only a few understand the relationship that exists with their creator and the principles in this relationship. There are different keys to different doors- I may be praying a instead of praying b and that avails nothing. I don't believe in constant deliverance on a particular issue but once delivered one has to stay delivered. One has to constantly be in fellowship with God and not give the opponent a foothold because if given they would return in multitudes. [/quote]@ Bold in black. I agree with you and that's why we need the Holy Spirit to help us pray for we know not what to pray but the Spirit helps us to pray.

@ Bold in red. You don't believe in constant deliverance and yet you advocate deliverance for Christians. I agree that once delivered we must stay delivered just like once saved, we must stay saved. You already gave the solution or answer to how we as Christians can stay delivered - One has to constantly be in fellowship with God. The only I will add to that is that, we must be filled with the Spirit of God and allow the Spirit of God to guide and lead us.


[quote author=WAM?]The prayer of deliverance does not necessarily have to involve falling down and displaying it could be a simple prayer of- father deliver me from my enemies or father deliver me from the spirit of laziness - this actually shows you acknowledging your imperfections and your reliance on the power of God to deliver. Sitting down and saying God already did it is not necessarily wrong but you have to make sure you have the faith to back off that statement otherwise you would just be pilling up demons.[/quote]@ Bold in black. But the deliverance session carried out in most churches are actually done by falling and catching people that wants to fall and displaying.

@ Bold in red. There's no such thing as spirit of laziness. Everything is not the devil. Most things are our flesh and our irresponsibility. Christian must take responsibility for the lives. If someone is lazy, that's not demon or any sort of satanic influence. As for our enemies, we know who we're in battle with as listed in Ephesians 6. Christ already defeated Satan and we walk in that victory.

@ Bold in green. When God saves a man and such man comes to Christ, he still have responsibility to subject his body. That's not God's responsibility anymore. We have to subject our flesh under control. The flesh is not born again and nothing good in the flesh. That a Christian is manifesting the works of the flesh is NOT demonic attack or any sort of satanic spell but such person allowed the flesh to rule over him/her.