₦airaland Forum

smileyoo:
every serious christain, that studies the bible know that tithing is no more compulsory, under this period of grace. but one can give free-will offering for the promotion of the gospel. funny enough, it 'll suprise you to know that most of these pastors, don't even practise tithing, because they know the truth, that its not compulsory.

Receive abundance of Grace!

SageTravels:
So you believe God is using Freeze??

Didn't God use a donkey before?

Ubenedictus:
lol the stuff you are crying about is sola fide and sola gratia, and you seem to explain them like Calvin

I no sabi Calvin....I teach scriptures. Good works are products of regeneration life not what preserves the regenerated life. What u think?

Yungkid101:
How often do u read your bible?
Please explain Malachi 3:8-10 for me

It says what it says but it's not talking to you AS A CHRISTIAN. Good Lord! Start reading from chapter 2 vs 1

You explain Romans 3vs19 to us.

desreek9:
Tithing is not a scam, as u quoted 2corin.9:7, you give willingly, no one is forcing anybody, whatever the men of God uses it for is their business, it's left for God to judge.

All those criticising men of God should take heed, God only knows those that are serving him in spirit and in truth. An example in the bible is when miriam was gossiping about moses to Aaron, she was punished for it, although wat she said was the truth.

Take heed people.

My sister,

You have to unlearn what the institutionalized church had taught you and sit with the Spirit for at least one year. U will come back and thank me. Now, 2 points,

1. Yes the Pastors are FORCING people. How? ....with curses and threat. What you thinking going on in the mind of folks who hear God gonna curse them?

2. What you mean what they do with tithe is non of our business BUT bible say explicitly what tithe should be used for.

Yungkid101:
I pity those yahoo boys, atheist & non-devoted Christians supporting him

What is u talking about? what saith the scriptures? I have my job and a devoted Christian....what else you hv to say?

felixomor:
Carry your stingy face away from here.

Chai e dey pain you ni? U ask my $$$ before I no gif you ni...? Y is you mad n angry wif me naw?

Ubenedictus:
lol, Goshen and Calvinism

Wetin I do naw? Which calvinism?

felixomor:
Stingy thing

Again no wolly....I will do a thread when Im ready you can't force me....it has to be as willing and as I propose in my heart. This is the liberty of Grace gospel. Relax joor!

felixomor:
.
So you now follow our pastors too?
I thought our pastors are bad according to u and your frozen brain?

Hypocrite Ediort!

Don't b rude....thought you a brother?

felixomor:
Like I care
Post it.
Frozen brain

No wolly.....when the time comes....

felixomor:
Sharrap pls.
Thats what the Bible says
I thought u and your freeze say pastors are evil already
And that pple shouldn't copy them.

But now she can post on social media because pastors post on social media. Abi?
Hypocrite!

That's your headache! Wait until I post my own....ntooor....lol

felixomor:
Good.

As u have published it on social media
Your reward is on social media

Joker! E dey pain you ni? Which reward does social media give? Don't your pastors too publish on social media? Hypocrite!

ichuka:
Don't mind them.most don't even know the meaning of a LAW,not to talk about one given by God.all Gods requirements to bless His people are instituted in the Law by Moses.in the Old if an Israelis desire to be bless by God he/she must uphold Gods Law(in the Old everything was drafted in the Law)
But now,God has a new Law which is Grace.
Why can't our brothers wholly accept His new Law and forget the Old?

I wonder o....mixture of both old n new is just as dangerous as upholding some part of the old only when it's convenient. This is the biggest problem in today's churches.

Ken4Christ:
Stop quoting men of God who are not God. Address each point I mentioned. You cannot be a member of TB Joshua's church if you are not a tither. TB Joshua is a hypocrite. As for Olukoya, I don't see hin as a man of God. A man of God who specializes in training murderers in the guise of dangerous prayers. A man of God who ignores the teachings of our Lord Jesus and upholds the Law of Moses which has been abolished.

Yes, you dont know me yet but you will know me soon.

So u believe the law of Moses has been abolished? Interestingly, you hold onto only the tithe right?

Ken4Christ:
Yes, salvation is purely by grace and not of works. This is the requirements to get saved. But after you are saved, you are expected to do good works. Hence, Ephesians 2:10 says, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them".

In addition Apostle Paul wrote, "Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works". (Titus 2:14). From this verse, we are not only expected to be involved in good works, we are supposed to be passionate about it. Failure to do that can make you lose your salvation.

Those who claim they are saved but are not involved in good works are those who "...profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.(Titus 1:16). "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us". (2nd Timothy 2:12).

If you read carefully the letters our Lord Jesus wrote to the seven Churches in Asia minor, the emphasis was on works to each of the churches. And he warned them to repent and do the works they are supposed to do otherwise they will suffer the consequence.

The last letter which was addressed to the Church in Laodicians is of particular interest.

"He told them, I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."(Revelation 3:14-15).

What do you suppose Jesus meant when he said, I will spue thee out of my mouth? This is as good as saying, I will completely reject you. That city is located in the present day Turkey which are predominantly now Muslims.

The letters Jesus wrote to these churches is also addressed to us. At the end of each letter, It says, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches".

A believer who says I am saved by grace but completely passive towards the works of the kingdom can be likened to a wicked and unreasonable servant in the parable of the talent. And the Scripture says,

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth - Matthew 25:30.

In Hebrews 10:25, Apostle Paul cautioned against habitual abstinence from Church meetings. He concluded that those who do that will fall under the judgment of God - Hebrews 10:26-31.

The message of grace has really been highly misunderstood. That you are saved by grace should even inspire you to serve God with zeal. If after your salvation, you are not ardently involved in a local Church, you have invariably nullified your salvation.

In summary, your good works does not save you but after you are saved, your good works preserves your salvation.

This is complete nonsense! Your summary is wrong and heresy! Why would your good works preserve your salvation if you never wasn't saved by the good works in the first place?

Osezua:
I will urge you to remove pride and humbly watch these videos. There are a lot of scriptural verses and evidences. mind you its not my work but I have taken time to watch and comprehend. The issues should not be about competition but for us to get knowledge and be edified. You are also free to disagree or agree. Regards.

Just quoting scriptures is different from sound doctrines. If you going to debate the truth, why not put up those scriptures to him

As Christians, I have taught over my years here on NL....Christians are not under the law, I mean the mosaic law including the 10 commandments. Get your studies right!

ponziponzi:
See story... all because of offering. Wetin co-sign rod and money?

That's what you get when our leaders SPIRITUALIZE the bible text.

nonhuman:
jusus prayed like Jew jedaism
dress like Jew
by covering his head while praying why are chistains not covering their had why praying

And your point is?

If you have studied the word....you'll understand he did that for reasons.

IForgotMyLoginD:
Whatever works for you my dear.

As for me, I follow His leading. Not what the Apostles did. They followed His leading too.
So I tune myself to His Spirit. If He says JUMP, I won't ask if the apostles jumped, I'll ask, How high Lord? And JUMP!

See? Let His Spirit talk to your spirit.

I pray you don't jump into .....lol because you're building on a different foundation other than Christ and His Apostles which are the foundation of the Church and you are the body of Christ. More like what Adeboye said, the Spirit convinced him tithe is right. Excuse me, how do we verify every spirit if not by the complete word.

PaChukwudi44:
the discussion is not just about what they do with tithes but rather the legality of Christian tithing in the first place

My brother, these folks no go hear word....lol. it's like someone saying tithe is being used to advance or preach the gospel. And then I asked, what tithe did Christ and the Apostles received before or for them to preach the gospel.

The OP is good humanitarian projects but the early church did similar stuff and some more but not by tithe.....

Next.....

traeces:
Bring it on!
I hope you read "as completed and put together by the life and teachings of Christ"
In other words, I strive in every situation to think, say and do what Jesus would think, say and do were he to be in the situation.

Leviticus 19.

Chew on that to obey all

We're listening o

topedopechef:
You wil b speakin grammar jez to avoid paying tithe, oga reference or referencing, goan pay ur tithe

Physician heal yourself first before you wan heal me.... What has tithe paying done for you but haven't done for me a non tither?

topedopechef:
A conversation between two pastors on the subject of tithes and the Levitical Priesthood.

Pastor A: Hi Pastor Z, long time how are you doing and the work?

Pastor Z: Work is splendid going fine. How are things with you? Heard a message of yours the other day, someone gave me a cd. Heard you don't believe in tithes that it's all past with the Levitical priesthood.

Pastor A: No I don't believe in "paying tithes" all I see in the New Testament are free-will offerings, giving to the poor. Never did Paul say anything about the tithe so I don't believe it's part of the revelation of our redemption.

Pastor Z: Interesting sir, Do you know that all the forms of giving Paul taught, he quoted Scriptures from the Levitical Priesthood to back his assertions?

Pastor A: That cannot be true

Pastor Z: I also learnt from your teachings you believe in people giving on the basis of "If we sowed spiritual things to you it's your duty to give back carnal things"

Pastor A: Oh yes, I believe that and in my Church, we practice that. They give to the Ministers and also they give to the poor. The rest is kind of free-will offerings. I mean we don't pay tithes but we give to our Pastor who has been such a blessing.

Pastor Z: Also learnt you believe and preach that those that labour in word and doctrine are worthy of double honor.

Pastor A: Oh we firmly believe in that.

Pastor Z: Interesting, I hope you know that instruction of honouring those who labour in the Word stems out of the same Levitical Priesthood that you roundly condemn. It is a commandment in the law of Moses you are practising there.

Pastor A: Oh noooo. Never.

Pastor Z: Read it with me in 1 Timothy 5:17-19
"Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward."

Pastor A: Paul said "the Scripture saith" not the Law. "The Scripture" can't you read.

Pastor Z: Well this was the second time Paul used that term in his letters. The first time he made it clear it's origin in 1 Cor 9:9
"For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?"

You see that the principle thou shalt not muzzle the ox that Paul left with Timothy as an instruction for managing the affairs of the New Testament Church was taken directly from the Levitical Priesthood.

Pastor A: Hmmm.

Pastor Z: So let's look into the Scriptures together to search for the proper justification to give to the poor. We know this is an explicit instruction in the New Testament concerning giving to the poor. At least we both agree on this type of giving.

Pastor A: Yeah I agree.

Pastor Z: Do you know the first time God ever gave any man or group the instruction to give to the poor it was also in the Levitical Priesthood?

Pastor A: No no I don't get this.

Pastor Z: So let's look at it we will see it stems also from the Levitical Priesthood. There is no record of anyone being instructed to give to the poor until the Law was introduced. Did you ever hear of Abraham gathering the poor in his area to distribute from his abundance of gold and silver or Joseph helping those in famine? The man did business with them. This is where giving to the poor was introduced as a principle.

Pastor Z: Leviticus 19:10 "And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the Lord your God."

Pastor Z: In fact, Paul said these words to the Church at Corinth after they gave sacrificially to the poor, the blessings he spoke were a direct quotation of blessings pronounced in the Psalms which stemmed out of the Law of Moses.

2 Corinthians 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

That was a direct quotation from the Psalms which stemmed out of the book of Deuteronomy.

Psalm 112:9 "He hath dispersed, he hath given to the poor; his righteousness endureth for ever; his horn shall be exalted with honour."

Deuteronomy 24:12-13
"And if the man be poor, thou shalt not sleep with his pledge: In any case thou shalt deliver him the pledge again when the sun goeth down, that he may sleep in his own raiment, and bless thee: and it shall be righteousness unto thee before the Lord thy God"

Pastor Z: I'll even go further. There is a link between giving to the poor and the principle of giving carnal things when spiritual things are sown into your life with the Levitical Priesthood. In Romans Paul said

Romans 15:26-28
"For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things."

Pastor Z: Now we see them giving to the poor saints in Jerusalem on the principle of giving carnal things to them from whom they reaped spiritual. Where did Paul get this his "new found" theory from? Was he scamming the Gentile churches? I mean I am sure he must have been questioned on its justification.

Pastor Z: They must have asked why do you say we are indebted to them? I mean Paul said they were debtors. That means it was their duty. A duty is an obligation something one is mandated to do. He said you are paying back a debt by doing this. Where did this doctrine stem out of? Hear what Paul said to substantiate it.

1Cor 9: 9-12
"For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

Pastor Z: Even giving to widows and orphans that the New Testament commands it was taken from the Levitical Priesthood. Did you ever hear of Abraham Isaac or Jacob gathering widows? We even heard they (Abraham and Jacob) gave the tithe even though as you say it was once but to widows and orphans we never heard them do it.

Deuteronomy 24:18-20
"But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the Lord thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing. When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands."

Pastor A: Are you saying that if we delete the entire instructions in the Levitical Priesthood our entire giving system in the New Testament will have no Scriptural basis and collapse?

Pastor A: Hmmm but the Law has been done away with. What are you getting at here?

Pastor Z: Oh yes it has. But understand what happened. Nothing in the Law was a figment of Moses's imagination. Everything is a type and shadow of the true. In other words for everything done under the Law, there is true representation in the heavenlies.

Remember God told Moses "see you build everything according to the pattern shown you on the mount". Everything Moses built and then instructed men to do, he saw its true representation in the heavenlies. To have a shadow you must have the real image that casts the shadow. You cannot have the shadow of a dog without there being a real dog. So the Law was a shadow of something that truly existed, Jesus set aside the shadow that we may enter the real.

Hebrews 8:5 "Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount."

Pastor Z: You know my friend since you like Greek words let me tell you the Greek word for shadow and you will get it. It is "Skia" and it means "Of the image or outline cast by an object" So there has to be the real object for there to be a shadow. The shadow is the outline of something real.

Pastor Z: Everything offered in the temple then has its exact image in what was and is offered up in the heavenly tabernacle

Pastor A: I will need to go and re-read my Bible I didn't know Paul substantiated all these practices citing the Law.

Pastor Z: I mean if we don't know where in the scriptures that practice is stated how then do we substantiate what Paul did who after receiving an offering from the Philippian Church prophesied on them that "My God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory". I mean why should Paul only say "My God shall supply" after offerings are given. Abi you didn't know it was the offerings that made him make that pronouncement?

Philippians 4:18-19
"But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, well pleasing to God. But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus."

Pastor A: Yeah I agree. Paul too sef. The term "My God" we are all priests na in the New Covenant. He is our God too. This now sounds like the blessings the priests used to pronounce on the children of Israel back then after the people gave their offering.

Pastor Z: Now Paul restrained himself from exercising certain rights that were legitimate because the Gentiles were not accustomed to certain things being new to the idea of the things of God and the priesthood. He didn't want them to misconstrue his motives as being materialistic and let that be a hindrance to the gospel but he never said they were wrong.

Pastor Z: So do you receive honorariums after ministering?

Pastor A: Yes. Jesus instructed on that.

Pastor Z: Hmmm. Let me not go further. I thought you once told me Jesus ministered under the Law and His words not valid for us today. Here is where the Lord brought out that principle from and Paul agreed with him. Oga read where the justification for your honorarium is coming from o.

1 Cor 9: 9-14 "For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?.......... Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel".

My dear friend, I would have shown you what Paul said concerning the tithe and what Peter and James and the other apostles in Jerusalem did concerning it. It's all in there. See you bro will be back for that matter

Pastor A: Okay bro looking forward to it.
#Copied from Pastor Poju

I HATE TO QUOTE THE WHOLE POST BUT the above is salient LIES. Did Paul referenced the law to place Christians under the law while his teachings completely dismissed the same law to Christians?