₦airaland Forum

jnrbayano:
What do you mean go back to the law?

Pls what do you mean by law? Let's know whether we have same understanding of the concept law

Going back to the law is going back to PERFORMANCE and works based use of the mosaic law to relate with God. It's when you do good you get good n when you do wrong you get wrong.

The law as used in scripture is ONE AND ALL INCLUSIVE PACKAGE OF LEGAL SYSTEM GIVEN TO MOSES FROM MOUNT SINAI. It's not separable as some people say there is moral law and there is sacrificial law and there's ceremonial law....the law is ONE and that's why a break in one is a break in whole because it's a one inclusive package. That's my understanding of the law.

However, context can tell you what aspect or section of the law the writer is talking about or if he's talking about a complete different kind of law. Eg, law of the Spirit etc

enilove:
The law was given to the Israelites to make them and everyone holy. Because lack of knowledge of right or wrong can kill.

The period when there was no law , the number of those worshipping idols and going to hell could not be numbered.
It was what made God to destroy the first generation and saved only Noah and his family.

The law was given to save the world.That is , to avoid the cases like that of Sodom .

I am not saying that anyone could make heaven without the death of Jesus , but that it is not only his blood that is required but our obedience to the commandments of God.

This your post is full of mix up again but for purpose of understanding let me ask questions to clarify some things said above.

First of all the law wasn't give to EVERYONE....it's was given to Israel. Lots of scriptures says this truth.

2. When you said to make them HOLY....holy as in what? What's the meaning of your holiness you referred to?

3. When you said the law was given to SAVE the world? Are your talking about preserving the world and humanity or you mean salvation in the kind that Christ came to give us?

4. Your last paragraph is ERROR....The blood of Jesus is the ONLY THING required for your one time salvation and what you saying we then continue to obey the commandments of God is WRONG. A Christian after salvation is then called to OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH (in the finished works of Christ) not to the COMMANDMENTS because the commandments will want to keep condemning you against what Christ had done in you....OMG!

jnrbayano:
Non sequitur!

The law is there for a purpose, checking of lawlessness.

We don't talk about justification. The law would have justified man if and only if man can keep them all without breaking any but that is impossible. Because of that, Jesus came. The justification which we enjoy today is brought about by Jesus's salvation work.

The law is there to check lawlessness that is to tell you and I when we sin.

I don't understand how you don't understand this simple thing

You, I can still debate with you because you're making sense sometimes in your comments. You are right on the usefulness of the law here above BUT MY GOOD GOD, why do you have to GO BACK TO THE LAW AFTER YOU NOW HAVE CHRIST WHO CAN TEACH YOU BETTER THAN THE LAW?

The betterment of Christ OVER THE LAW IS ALL WHAT THE BOOK OF HEBREWS AND GALATIANS IS ALL ABOUT my brother. You can't teach that after one get Christ he should go back to PERFORMANCE TO THE LAW....my God, that's so wrong!

jnrbayano:
Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the Law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? [Is] the Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the Law had said, "You shall not covet."

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 7:12 - Therefore the Law [is] holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Romans 7:14 - For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7:22 - For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man.

1Joh 3:4 (KJV) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law.

Read Romans 7:7-25

I believe St Paul and John not you

You can't have a debate with a motive to learn if you have this kind of attitude. As a matter of fact, I don't expect you to believe me....I truly want you to believe that was written but don't be like that man in scripture reading and or quoting scripture but can't use another scripture to interpret scriptures quoted.

Give me time lemme explain those scriptures you quoted thinking they support that CHRISTIANS ARE BINDING TO CONTINUE TO KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES.

OMG, ITS 2018 AND WE'RE STILL HERE DEBATING WETHER OR NOT CHRISTIANS SHOULD FOLLOW THE MOSAIC LAWS WHEN IT WAS ALREADY CONCLUDED BY THE APOSTLES IN ACTS OF THE APOSTLES.

enilove:
The law was written in their heart :
Romans 2:12-15 KJV
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
[14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Good answer!


The is the whole point I have been trying to get you to see. If someone or people already doing the right or wrong without an existing law what then is the purpose or use of God giving the law? In other words, why then was the law given to Israel and not to YOU a Gentile?

**** double post *****

enilove:
@openmine,

Are you saying David , Isaiah , Elisha , Jeremiah ,Ezekiel were not holy and were not saved? I am make reference to your statement that " the law never saved ".

Did you not read this b4 making that comment ?
Leviticus 18:5 KJV
Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Lord .

The reason why Jesus came to die for us was to save us eternal damnation. For those who died b4 Christ , they will be judged by the law.
Likewise you and I , by our obedience to the laws and faith in Christ.

Why did Jesus said some people were holy ?
John 5:28-29 KJV
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

My point is , the law was useful in showing those who died b4 Jesus the way and it is very very more important now for christian to keep them after accepting Jesus ad his saviour.

Jesus told us not to teach anyone to break them.

IF NOT FOR THE LAW , JESUS WOULD NOT HAVE COME.
IT WAS THE LAW THAT MADE MARY HOLY AND USABLE FOR THE LORD TO COME.

Again, you have MIXTURES in what you teach. You are not putting the law in it's proper place and use. Yes and YES, the law had it's useful BUT ONCE IT HAS FULFILLED THAT USEFULNESS, ITS NO LONGER NEEDED. The was a schoolmaster that tutor you until you get to Christ and after you found Christ and be conformed to the image of Christ, you longer need the law brother....what are your saaayyyyying?

When a child begins to learn 123 and addition, he or uses old counters which is a representation of what the law is but when the child grow, he or she doesn't need counters or fingers to know 1+1 or 1+2 or 1+3.

The law also defines what sin IS ..... Romans 7v7.

However, you can sin without having a law and you can do the right things WITHOUT having a law you're following? Let me help you again with two examples of what's contained in the law or right and wrong but these two people never had a law of thou shall not or thou shall....

Cain killed Abel but there was a thou shall not kill.
Joseph flew ADULTRY but there was no thou shall not commit adultery. So what law did each follow or did not follow?

enilove:
Are these not what the law says ?

Ephesians 5:3-5 KJV
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
[4] Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
[5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

jnrbayano:
Making sense. They always mix things up when it comes to the law.

St Paul made us know that we know when we sin because of the law and in another place told us to upload the law and not do away with it.

enilove:
How does one know which of the sins one has committed?

I see where you are focusing your argument and I can deal with it. So let me follow your logic and answer your question. So you want an answer that how a Christian know that he or she sin is by breaking a law right? That argument I already established and here is it again.

Read and understand Romans 2v14 from many translations please.

So you want to argue sin is the breaking of a law. 1 John 3v4; James 2v9 etc

BUT, remember people sinned in the Bible BEFORE the law was given.

Soooooo, if sin IS BREAKING A LAW....how can you define or say those who sinned before the law or not having the law committed sin using these verse Romans 5v13.

enilove:
Can a christian fall into sin or not?

Yes !

enilove:
Why are you avoiding such simple question?

Let me answer your question regarding whether believers should use the law of Moses as a justification or not.

My answer is Yes and more.

The Pharisees were counted as holy as per the laws, and Jesus told us to surpass their righteousness.

A believer should not commit sins which the Pharisees did not commit .
Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Because you are a believer does not mean you can commit fornication or adultery.

Not being under the law means not under the statutes to kill goat , birds etc for atonements.
It is those blood sacrifices we are exonerated from but not law of Sin, because Jesus Christ has been made a sacrifice for us.

Let me ask you another question ;
Can a Christian sin or not ?

OMG!

There is soooooo much mixture in what you saying and it's against the new testament teaching and the reason you are still not getting it is simply MIXTURE.

When Christ was talking to the scribes and Pharisees....these are custodians of the law and so when he said the disciple's righteousness should or must surpass that of the scribes and Pharisees....he wasn't talking about RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW...which was what the scribes and Pharisees was performing. Christ was talking about RIGHTEOUSNESS that's imputted to you NOT BASED ON PERFORMANCE TO THE LAW.

That's the righteousness from God not what you did by obeying some sets of rules.

Romans 10v3-5 talks about RIGHTEOUSNESS of the law vs imputted righteousness of Christ

jnrbayano:
It least I know Jesus observed Passover

And that's exactly what Matthew 5vs17 was pointing to.... meaning something were wrote IN THE LAW ABOUT CHRIST which is came to fulfill and not abolish.

enilove:
Is this a law or not :

Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Brother, it is NOT A LAW.

You have to keep reading what happened to understand why Christ was making it look HARDER THAN JUST COMMITTING ADULTRY.

We use scriptures to understand or interpret another scripture. When you read scripture like "Christ is the END of the law to everyone that believes...." Romans 10v4 you understand what Christ was doing to those Jews in his time.

Let me help you out. The Jews was given the law of Moses NOT CHRISTIANS. The church or body of Christ is made of GENTILES and the JEWS. The gentiles were never given the mosaic law (Romans 2v14). These Jews so much pride in the Mosaic law to the point the elevated the law more than what it was intended to do.

So when you see or read Christ interpret the law and make it harder like the verse you quoted, He was making them COME TO THE END OF THEMSELVES AND SEE A NEED FOR HIM CHRIST AS THE SAVIOUR. Christ did the same to the rich young ruler who said all the laws he had obeyed from Childhood but Christ interpret the law to mean, he had made money his God's and told him go sell your possession and follow me. Do we therefore make that response from Christ a A LAW OR REQUIREMENT for eternal life which was the rich man question for what he can do to have eternal life.

So Christ is the end of the law to everyone that believes is true!

openmine:
Roman 13:8-10



You don't need the law of moses to stop you from killing or committing murder....What you need is AGAPE LOVE!

The love of God!

Excellent reply and let me add this to help our brother:

enilove:
The law says "thou shall not kill ". Can a christian now kill ?

For sin was in the world before the Law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Romans 5v13.

So BEFORE the thou shall not commit adultery came, Joseph flew from Potiphar's wife right? What law or part of law or 10 commandments told him thou shall not commit adultery? Before though shall not kill came, people like Job, Abraham and those who were upright before God did not kill? What law or part of 10 commandments told them not to?

So therefore you don't need the 10 commandments to tell you though shall not BEFORE you do the right things BECAUSE PEOPLE ALREADY DID THE RIGHT THINGS BEFORE THE THOU SHALL NOT WAS GIVEN. How did they do the right things then even without the thou shall not or thou shall...? It's is simple, by the Spirit or living the life of the (or in the) Spirit.

Abeg moG, no let them our law keepers catch you with this message oooo....you know we can't do away with the whole law and mosaic legal system....we have to keep some for our own benefits or good....

And another argue I often hear from so called Christian's is, if the law was abolished, why do Paul still quote the law to buttress his teachings to Christian if he Paul was indeed teaching the law abolished.

What saith ye?

Many times when you or one read or study Paul's letter, you have to understand when he's referring to sin AS TO THE NATURE OF SIN OR THE SIN NATURE vs when he's referring to sin AS YOUR ACTION.

One might to double check and tripple check to be sure.

My little cent and good job guys that you're all doing. Kudos!

I can see semetics playing a role in this thread.... we're not arguing and against each other.... meaning THOSE FOR prophecy cannot be right as well those AGAINST IT.....so I advise everyone contributing to double-check the meaning of PROPHESY OT TO PROPHECY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FROM A BIBLE CONCORDANCE AND PUT IT IN CONTEXT.

Here we go .... comparing themselves with themselves....smh

Anas09:
This is exactly where i was waiting for the Op. Bros, Deliverance is PREACHED NOT ACTED, as it is done today. Anyone who can preach the Gospel is a deliverance minister and besides, there is nothing like DELIVERANCE MINISTRY in the 5fold ministries. where did these so called deliverance ministers get this ministry from?

Anas09:
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark:16:15
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mark:16:16
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mark:16:17

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mark:16:18.

Have you seen that the empowerment in those verses is for every believer?

There's nothing like DELIVERANCE MINISTRY sir.

I'm glad you are doing well as a student OF THE WORD. I used to think when I was a baby in the Lord, I think I was called into "Deliverance ministry" but alas, being a student of the word, I realized it was just from my zeal not based on truth in the knowledge of the word.

Keep it up!

petra1:
There is no new testament prophecy. in every generation A prophet will always be a prophet , and prophecy will always be prophecy,the seer will always be the seer

So if there's no new testament prophecy and you read about prophecy in the new testament, what does it mean? To predict?

enilove:
Thanks my teacher. God bless you.

U welcome and amen

fineboynl:
oga Goshen longest time. so you still de this section?

Yeah....I'm permanently logged in but just peep in and don't like to comment much these days except if necessary. How are you doing.

enilove:
A prophecy is a prediction , it can be Divine ( from God ) , satanic , false or man made.

The owner of a Divine prophecy is God and always comes to pass or be cancelled by God Himself.

Satanic prophecies do come to pass if not cancelled by a higher power than the prophesying.

That of man is most times not coming to pass.

In the old testament, prophecy mean prediction but since the new testament is fulfillment of the old, prophecy doesn't mean prediction IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.

orisa37:
Richness is God(m)
Wealth is God(f)
The Product of The Two is "The Hope"(n).
When you become Born Again, you become The Hope of God, Co-Heir to The Throne of Grace. Riches and Wealth, like God The Father and The Holy Spirit become yours for pick and forever.

Amen to this!

Short but great or powerful message. This is the type of message we need in the body of Christ. However, kudos n shout out to my friend and brother from another mother, MutteyLaff.... for shedding more light for proper undering. We're one citizen under God.

Graceful message.

BushWickBill:
Big bro

I respect your anti-tithe stance from way back.

To me his message is not clear enough. He should go all the way in debunking the entire practice.

It is clear that these people trying to save face are not ready to repent.

The pro-tithe brigade will still keep up their vanguard irrespective of the evidence on ground. It looks like Bishop Okonkwo doesn't want to ruffle feathers. The PFN pastors may not like the sound of what he is saying but he comes across as stopping halfway.

Just that a half truth is also a half lie

You are 100% correct brother!

Simply because there's a RIGHT and WRONG way of asking from your FATHER

Rccg is gradually going down! Yes I said it

One will have to destroy scriptures or force another meaning into scriptures if you so believe the pre Adamic age. It wasn't believed neither taught by Apostolic early church. May God help us.

BushWickBill:
Big bro

I respect your anti-tithe stance from way back.

To me his message is not clear enough. He should go all the way in debunking the entire practice.

It is clear that these people trying to save face are not ready to repent.

The pro-tithe brigade will still keep up their vanguard irrespective of the evidence on ground. It looks like Bishop Okonkwo doesn't want to ruffle feathers. The PFN pastors may not like the sound of what he is saying but he comes across as stopping halfway.

Just that a half truth is also a half lie

Exactly!