₦airaland Forum

salvation101:
.. Good to know we can agree on a subject matter

Na so o. There's acceptable, permissive and perfect will of God. Christ said, he that made them from the beginning (originally) made them male and female but Moses "permitted" it for a reason.... their heart was hardened to the ("perfect" ) will of God.

I'm with salvation101 on this one....

MuttleyLaff:
I actually watched him on this YouTube video sometime last year, admitting quite a few wrongs he did like, scaring people about repercussions of not tithing etcetera.

He even said, when he embarked on lifting the lid on false teachings and practices of ecclesiastical monitised tithing, some of his inner caucus members tried to caution him, claiming finances will cease and dry up.

He said, of course, finance dwindled, in the beginning after he opened up to church members, but at least his conscience was clear, he was doing the right thing and he was standing right with God

He further said, the church isn't his, so it was left to God to see to the financial needs of His church, that all he will and had to do, is to teach right.

At the end of the confession, I stood up and gave him a standing ovation but my euphoria suddenly nose dived at something he then said, and I heard myself muttering and asking; why, why, why did you have to spoil something so good and beautiful, with this now?

Couple of things as to why why in your last paragraph:

Could be traditions of men passed down from church to church without learning and studying the truth for themselves.

Man trying to help God do His job

Bad caucus

Zeal without knowledge....e.g Kumuyi...

My little cents

Bishop Mike just shot himself in the leg. If he's saying first fruit is not a new testament practice, how about tithe? Same is tithe, it's not a new covenant practice and such cannot be found in the new testament.

Who's Bishop Mike disguising to? You recently invited Ashimolowo to your church and alas, his message was on tithe. If first fruit not in the practice of new testament Christians so is tithe you should drop it off your church and stop the double standard.

^^^
Okay understood

Please what does explosive breakthrough mean?

Ferisidowu:
I agree with you on some points... .. but that it wasn't God's intention to introduce the law, I can't accept ....

Besides the law wasn't given for justification ... It was given as a guide.. (school master)

He's RIGHT! God never intended the law. Paul was teaching Grace gospel and alluded....why was the law added? It was added because of transgression...what transgression? You have to go back to the event that happened after they left Egypt n for God to give the law. I have thought about this before though.

As for the gospel being in the old testament....the resounding answer is YES! The gospel was hidden in the old but today, instead of ministry and ministers to draw out this gospel in the old to present the finished works of Christ, they preach it as a means to godliness which is wrong. We are to present Christ and his finished work from the old.

My little piece.

MuttleyLaff:
Before I answer your question, lets first confirm we are on a same page:
1) Is there a language, one is to pray in and/or with that neither you, the speaker, nor others understands?
2) If Yes, what is the justification and/or reason for using this language?
3) What is the origin of this language?
4) What kind of language is this, what may we call it or can we call it?

After you've answered the four above, we can go further and in depth with details
Meanwhile, think about this:
Do you hear your thoughts, inside your head or are they silent?
Do others hear your thoughts, inside your head or are they silent?

Okay, I'll answer from scriptures.

1. Yes, there's a language that a person or I can pray in that no one nor the speaker understands. 1 cor. 14v2.......Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

2. The justification for this kind of prayer language is, the Spirit helping our weaknesses in prayer for in depth we don't know what deep things we ought to pray for. So, we or the speaker utter mysteries.....BY THE SPIRIT, not by OUR UNDERSTANDING now., still 1 cor. 14v2.

3. Like I said on the other thread then, the origin, both sign tongue and prayer tongue is the Spirit, NOT OUT INTELLIGENCE NOR OUR MIND.

4. I in my understanding called it prayer language, some call it spiritual language because I guess, devil too doesn't understand it. You know how u and me can speak yoruba and some or most Akata can't understand it and they be lost in conversation. Same way the prayer tongues between your spirit and God being enabled by the Spirit of God in you.

Shey I try....? Lol

MuttleyLaff:
Two options
1)Take a lesson in Yoruba,
but pray you will speak in the tongue without needing Ishilove to assist with interpretation

2) Have the gift of Yoruba tongue
and pray that you'll be able to explain the meaning of what you've spoken

It is a good thing and a right sign that the discussion isnt putting you at ease

One thing you can be certain of, is, I am not, will not lead you or anyone else, for that matter, astray
You'll only come out better, stronger, more effective in your prayer life and wise

I remember 15 years ago, when I used drive my elder kid to boarding house.
It was a 3 hours back to back journey
and right from from leaving the driveway, it was me behind the steering wheel, "speaking in tongue" all throughout the entire journey
My elder kid used to watch me like what is going on Dad
and I go like, dont worry about it kiddo, I am praying

I know about what you think is "speaking in tongue" .
I've been there, sold it, done it and had that "speaking in tongue" T-shirt
So I know and can say a bit and more about it

When you're ready, you know where to find and how to engage me
We can even do it, a la Nicodemus style, in camera
Yorubas will say, "Ti ogun ẹ ni ba dani loju, a maa nfi gba ori"
Goshen360

My brother sorry for the disappearance from the tongue topic if not for the mention, I've been really busy and just peep into the forum.

I did read your reply then on our tongue discussion. Was going to reply but other things was begging for my immediate attention and it's being one thing into another ever since.

However, one question I was going to ask on your response then was,

What language do you pray in/with that neither you the speaker nor others understand?

Ubenedictus:
my question is about being saved

Off course justification, righteousness etc are imputed at salvation. ....when we are savED.....because justification is not in continuing tense of the work of God nor righteousness etc

Ubenedictus:
think I get your point and I can agree to a large extent

but let me ask since you used the term salvation all through do you consider sanctification as part of salvation? I.e is salvation a one time event?

Salvation was used 3 ways in the bible. We're saved, being saved and will be saved. That's why I keep smh at you when you class me among some Calvin stuff but I don't even know such stuff.

So what salvation does your question deal with?

jwals:
The reason for quoting you, is that, I want to know if what you meant was that good works, is not a necessity after salvation? I know that we are justified by faith in christ and how can I show you my faith without works,

I never taught good works isn't necessary after salvation but good works itself doesn't give one salvation neither does it preserve salvation like the op said. You're first saved and you produce the fruits which are evidence of good works. While we're yet sinners Christ died for us but we some or many of us did good works then, does that mean we're saved or does those good works done while we're sinners guaranteed salvation?

jwals:
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Your point for quoting me is...?

....following but put in mind, sin is a process. Meaning you don't just see yourself IN THE ACT....scriptures say, sin is first conceived. I'll contribute later on.

Statsocial:
The theatre can take 100,000. However, the overflow is designed to take another 100,000. If the service is spread across two services it would be just fine. Any other increases and we can keep on increasing the Service. So the Current faith theatre can accommodate 1 million ppl over five services.

The same thing will continue AND CONTINUE.....that's is, after spending 50 or 100 billion naira to sit faith theatre with its overflow according to you, in years to come you will want to build again with another billions of naira because there's increase in overflow or worshippers and you're never satisfied which is what competition among ministry does. If you don't believe what I'm saying ask Rccg.

Statsocial:
The Faith theatre 100,000 Stadium-like Auditorium which was designed by Students/Graduates of Covenant University has now been TEMPORARILY put on Hold as the Church waits for clear Divine Instructions on the matter. According to Bishop Oyedepo, God hasn't given a "go ahead" for the Construction to begin.

About 1,000 Hectares of Land had been initially reserved for the project at Canaancity and the Project reportedly ought to have run for Three years maximum and commissioned in 2019.

Right now, according to Leke Beecroft, the Church would now focus on expanding Faith Tabernacle(50,000) to accommodate hundreds of thousands of Worshippers. According to 2015 statistics Canaanland currently hosts about 400,000 people per Sunday over several Services-hence it is imperative to either build a new structure or expand the Faith Tabernacle.

https://educationexplorersite./2018/01/03/living-faith-church-temporarily-puts-n50-billion-faith-theatre-project-on-hold/

Isn't it STUPIDITY if one is trying to build a 100,000 capacity auditorium but the current place draws 400,000 worshippers? Am I the only one looking at figures in this article?

salvation101:
where did you get that from? Scriptural references plz.. Even Paul who spoke most about grace said he puts his body in subjection so dat after preaching to others he wont be a cast away... Where did u get ur concept of grace from? If u av grace, gracious fruits should emanate too

Oracle16:
He's very correct. Unless you are not a Christian. Any other thing outside grace message is no longer Christianity.

Anything outside it is no longer preaching Christ. The doctrine of men has seriously adulterated Christianity.
Anybody preaching anything outside grace is trying to say the death of Jesus was for nothing.

1. Nobody dispute the fact or truth that, Grace means you should go about living reckless - off course you put your body (the residue of the old man because you still have the same body as even though you're regenerated) under subjection.

2. Fruit of the Spirit is an evidence of Christ in you the hope of glory and also what follows the new creation.

However, the point I made which is grounded all over the new covenant of Grace is, the message of Grace of God is the ONE AND ONLY message given and handed to the church and that's what preachers should continue in......NOT THE MESSAGE THAT MIXES GRACES WITH THE WORKS OF THE LAWS.

That being said, Both the Holiness movement and the Grace teachers do sin. Grace message doesn't say you should live a life of reckless and continuous practice of sin but when you sin, the Grace is God in Christ is bigger than your sins - this is one of the truth people can't deal with in the message of Grace.

Now, what is my or the message of the Grace of God and is it the one and only message given and handed to the church of Christ?

1. Many people say Grace is unmerited or undeserved favor of God - this is true and just a surface understanding of the message of Grace. How? You deserved death by sin, but God in His favor and because of Christ, gave us mercy. We deserve punishment but God gave us justification - all because of Christ.

1b. Some say Grace is:

G-od's
R-ichess
A-t
C-hrist's
E-expenses

God's Riches At Christ's Expenses. This is also true. All that God did for humanity was at the expenses of Christ.

1c. Thirdly, I put both definition or understanding above together and came up with this. Grace is EVERYTHING GOD HAD DONE (what what he's about to do) THROUGH THE DEATH, BURIAL & RESURRECTION OF CHRIST WHICH IS THE FINISHED WORKS OF CHRIST.

Some pastors say, I'm called to deliverance ministry, there's no such thing as "deliverance" ministry - the gospel of Grace produce deliverance, in the gospel of Grace of God is deliverance for all who believes. Some say, I'm called into prosperity ministry - there's no such thing as prosperity ministry/gospel - in the gospel of Grace is prosperity and the gospel of Grace produce prosperity. In the gospel of Grace is justification, redemption, health, forgiveness of sins, righteousness etc.

2. Is this Gospel the one and only gospel given and handed over to the church? The answer is YES!

Berean Literal Bible
But I make my life neither dear nor any account to myself, so as to finish my course and the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus: to testify fully the gospel of the grace of God.
Acts 20:24

1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, and set apart for the gospel of God, 2which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3regarding His Son, who was a descendant of David according to flesh, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by His resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5Through Him and on behalf of His name, we received grace and apostleship to call all those among the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith. 6And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ.
Romans 1

6I am astonished how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7[b]which is not even a gospel.[/b] Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you embraced, let him be under a divine curse!
Galatians 1

This (one and only gospel) is what every minister should be preaching and teaching on the pulpit but unfortunately, some are not! This gospel and its exploration is what the new covenant is all about!

New Living Translation
He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life.
2 Cor. 3vs6

salvation101:
i can categorically tell you that after i knew the lord and got saved i experienced total transformation of life, ppl around me could attest that something new has happened to me.. If a man be in Christ he is a new creature, old things are passed away and all things become new. Of course there are times i walk in d flesh, get angry and all but my conscience is alive, and i av to repent. D greatest enemy of a believer is the flesh wch comprises of soul and body. The salvation of the soul is by renewal of mind tru the word. For the body u av to tame it by purposefully mortifying the members of the body by not yielding it as instruments of unrighteousness. The word of God gives us clear commands and instructions on how to deal with our body like "abstaining from all appearances of evil", "flee youthful lust" etc.. Jesus is our perfect example and we keep looking unto him as the author and finisher of our faith

You, me or any other Christian should not have problem to agree on what you wrote above here. I'm 101% in agreement with the above. My born again experience was same and still same that is, fruits must be evidence in the life of the new creation.

However as you pointed out, flesh has to be put in subjection. The reason being that, your new creation affect or is only experience in your spirit and that's once and for all times. Your body is the residue of the old man or the old nature of sin that was dead. Your mind has to be renewed to align or follow the new creature to take side with the new man which is made after Christ.

We agree on this and no problem ma. We'll continue!

I have been reading comments and I'll attend to all of them later on.

petra1:
Prediction is part of prophecy . But primarily , prophecy is forth telling .

But the fact that a man prophesies doesn’t make him a Prophet .

There’s difference between prophesying and the gift of prophecy and there’s diffeence between he that has the gift of prophecy and a PROPHET

Only within the context of old testament you'll see prohesy to be fortelling the future. Prophesy in the new testament doesn't foretell like these Nigerian pastors.

Make una let these law keepers and teachers catch una for this kind thread....how can you people be teaching or saying stuff like this without me..... Una know say this one na the kind food I like to eat naw....ehnnn, una no try at oooo.....

salvation101:
i somehow knew dat i was dealing with one of those who have doctorates and professorship in grace...u believe in eternal security don't you?

But ma, Grace message IS THE ONE AND ONLY MESSAGE DELIVERED AND HANDED DOWN TO THE CHURCH....any other message is false. Don't you know this?

salvation101:
i mean aren't you one of those Christians dat believe once a person is saved, no matter what he does, he is still saved and eternally secured

Since you became born again, have you committed one sin or another?

If the above is yes, how does your sin UNborn again YOU? I'll like to you.

Did you born again again after you repent or ask for forgiveness of that sin?

.....this will be interesting again

salvation101:
ok, my bad den. I made a false assumption.. Its usually those folks dat do claim dey av a deeper understanding of grace.. Grace dat cannot take away their bad habits

Madam, God will help us all. You have a long way to go and we're all learning. Doesn't the Grace teachers like me and your likes who mix Grace with law keeping both sin? Do you not know there's a difference between sinning (making a practice of sin verb) vs sin noun as a nature. Why do you folks who go against Grace people too still sin and ask for forgiveness of sin? Does that mean the holiness y'all preach and teach hasn't stop you guys from sinning? You gonna like me after our discussion here because I'll attack every you've learned in the traditional church.

I have one more sub topic to discuss under this law thread.....whenever you ready and whenever we done with this one..... Its gonna interest you! I've thinking of doing a thread on this sub topic because its related to this moral law thing, we can as well discuss it here! You ready?

salvation101:
every human had the law written in their conscience Rom 2:14,15

Now sir please answer this question, "can d fruits in d life of a man saved by the Jesus Christ go contrary to the moral laws"?

I answered you this already with Romans 2vs14. It says you as a gentile christian do things contained in the law, NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE OR WAS GIVEN A LAW TO FOLLOW. Why is that hard to understand?

Lemme put it in another way, I live in the States. Here there's traffic laws on speeding and other traffic regulations. When I visit home in Nigeria, I do not speed....is that because my highway has a posted speed limit? Even though I'm driving at moderate speed. Do I need Nigeria to post speed limit before I understand speed kills?

The same way is what I'm telling you....you as a born again Christians that has the indwelling of the SPIRIT OF GOD DO NOT NEED THE 10 COMMANDMENTS to tell you Adultery is bad.....just like Joseph flew Adultery not because he had the 10 commandments to tell him that but the Spirit of God on him. I don't kill not because I'm following 10 commandments but because I know killing is evil. Etc

MrPresident1:
You have not stopped this your nonsense.

They have taken pleasure in unrighteousness so He has hidden His truth from them.

What nonsense you talking about?

Ferisidowu:
some Christians argue that the moral law remains that Jesus abrogated the civil and ceremonial law but never removed the moral law . .
how true is this?

That argument was thrown out of the window and dismissed by Apostle Paul in Romans 7. Read from vs 1. He said, we're divorced from the law....amplified version.

Now some people argued ohhh he was talking about ceremonial or sacrificial law.... Not too long in vs 7, Paul quoted the 10 commandments to tell you or us he was referring to the law AS 10 COMMANDMENTS and that's what he just said you or we're divorced from and married to Christ. But you see the law keepers want to teach otherwise....

enilove:
God bless you.

Can you imagine a christian saying the law was a mistake from the beginning?

Does grace cancel obedience to God's commandments?

You will agree with her because you both following the teachers in the body of Christ who mix law with Grace. You are not to be obedience to the Mosaic law but to FAITH in the finished works of Christ. Romans 1vs5

Btw, I speak with scriptures, you as a gentile christian wasn't given the law in the first place. Romans 2vs14

salvation101:
yeah not dat we are living a life of dos and don't cos dat will just be plainly being religious. But d salvation we receive by faith in christ enables us to live right naturally..

We agree on this one because we know the law has nothing to do with (our new found) faith (in Christ). Galatians 3vs12

salvation101:
who says the law was never God's intention from d beginning? Right from Adam God has always given laws. He asked dem not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Dat is a law. Our God is not a lawless God.

You are the one using sentiments to interpret scriptures. Allow scriptures to interpret scriptures. Now, what happened in Eden wasn't a given law like the people of Israel was officially or formally given the law. Scriptures never said Adam was given a law but instructions to the test of Obedience. So that's why Paul the Apostle said, "....by the DISOBEDIENT of one man, all were made SINNERS..."

Now, one can said, but sin is the breaking of the law. That's in the case where a law is given. But Adam sinned without a given law because his sin is not by definition of breaking a law but by disobedience. Hence, this verse...."Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break". Romans 5:13.

You can tell your child not to do something and not necessarily make it a law in your household.

salvation101:
There is no problem with the law Paul the apostle said "the law is Holy Roman7:12. David said it was perfect Psalm 19:12. The problem has never been with the law but with the nature of man. The law reveals all the flaws in man and we couldn't attain perfection by merely trying to keep the law.

Many things wrong with the law - the law was given as punishment for the sins of arrogance in the people of Israel. There's boasting in arrongance in them so God gave them all the law and make them so hard for them to be able to keep and on top of that, God said, breaking one is breaking all - meaning the law came as one whole package delivered to them. So when Israel repents and see how hard these laws are to keep - then they will see a need for a savior, which is Christ and come to Christ. Christ is the end of the law to those that believe in Him as the Promise - study Galatians 3, Galatians 3:18-19 cf.

Also, the fuel for sin in one's life is the law. 1 Cor. 15vs56. So many things wrong with the law. Christlike or life is what God intended from beginning and not following some sets of rules etc

Before Paul said the law is holy, start reading Romans 7 from verse one. Vs 6 says....."we have been released from the bounds of the law..." One translation say, ".....we are divorced from the law....". The law being holy doesn't make you holy neither does it make you sinless. The law itself is an instrument of sin if a man is under the law - Romans 7vs8-9.

The law is perfect David said but doesn't make you perfect neither was the law made for the perfect man - 1 Timothy 1vs9. Again, Joseph didn't have "thou shall not commit adultery" before he flee sleeping with another man's wife. Cain didn't have "thou shall not kill" before he killed his brother. etc

You also said the problem is with the nature of man keeping the law - Look, both you fallen nature and your regenerated nature can't keep the law. You can't keep the law in your born again nature because you break "do wear cloth of two different materials" means you broke the rest. Or when you see you monthly period and go to gathering, you broke the rest. So you leave the law alone.

salvation101:
Wat grace does it dat it empowers us to to keep the laws of God, dis time around its no more a struggle but comes naturally. The Bible said whosoever is born of God sinneth not but God's seed remains in him and so he cannot sin because he is born of God. The Holy Spirit in us is gives us thr ability to keep all the law of God.


If u say the law was abolished (wch Jesus categorically said he didn't come to abolish) den why is there still a priesthood in Christ? Why did Heb7:25 say he is our high priest dat liveth to makes intercession for us? Why do we still need an highpriest (who is in charge of ceremonial law)? The Holy communion replaced the passover, the Holy Spirit baptism replaced thr feast of pentecost and so on. There was simply a paradigm shift..

God never gave you the Holy Spirit so you can go back using it to keep the law. I don't know what bible verse tells you that. This is what Paul refute the Galatians Christians about - the receive the Holy Spirit and went back to keeping the law. And Paul said, you began in the Spirit and ending in the flesh.

2. When you understand what Christ meant in that statement, you will drop the law for the reason it was given and having accomplished its goal, that is, to make people see their sins and how hard it is to keep it so they will then see a need for savior, Christ and once it drives you to the saviour, you no longer need it. That statement means, somethings the law said about Christ, he came not to abolish but to fulfill it or them. They have already been fulfilled!

3. Why do you keep saying there is ceremonial laws? What verse of scriptures divided the law into moral, ceremonial and sacrificial laws? Give me that verse? There's nothing like that - it is those who want to teach law keeping to Christian that made that distinction not the scriptures.

salvation101:
u still didn't get it. No one is saying the law justifies or makes u holy but dat if u av received grace, u won't go contrary to the law of God.. If a man is born again, even if he has no knowledge of the moral laws, the fruits from his lifestyle will be in consonance wit wat d law required...

Then such man is not following the law then, he just does the right thing as though contained in the law. That's not to me he's under the (mosaic) law. Romans 2:14 is what you talking about but that man is not under the law because he wasn't given a law to follow in the first place.

I'm Goshen360 and I ENDORSE this message!

Btw, prophecy DOESN’T MEAN fortelling the future in the new testament.