₦airaland Forum

Snowwy: @Goshen, because you chose to draw your own interpretation from it does not mean I should draw the same especially with the stark plain scriptures referring to the OT from almost all of the I Cor. 9.

See I have no issues if you don't see it as plainly stated in scripture, the issue is inferring your own interpretation and calling that of others wrong. Therefore telling me that 'Paul did not mean what I interpreted' is really surprising. If he didn't mean it as a right referring to OT why did he go this length to explain the OT. You have drawn your interpretation, please respect that of others especially when the scripture speaks by the Spirit for itself. Happy Easter and I pray the understanding of Jesus Christ's death for you and for me will yield greater meaning in our lives.

Okay Oga Snowwy,

I am not in a good mode now as i got angry from someone around me now, not from you or your words. I have heard your talk and I will respect other's interpretation. God will help us. As the scriptures says, "we know in part". I will respect your view/others and not infer mine interpretation on you/others. We all share and partake of the body of Christ. This same issue of interpretation is what causes the different stuffs in the body of Christ. Let us leave like that. Thank you sir. Am still being provoked to anger. Maybe I will come back to talk to you tomorrow. God bless you. Thanks for the fellowship and time all the way.

@ Image123,

We believe Jesus raised from the dead on the third day sir. But to say Jesus died on Friday and raised on Sunday to fulfill the words of Jesus as in 3 days and 3 nights is the questionable aspect.

I have come to the Lord and believed God raised Him from the dead on the third day but that he died on Friday justifies 3 days and 3 nights is the questions. This is what we seek answers to. I just go an answer from an article on the internet that Jesus died on Wednesday and i will share it later. They used bible to explain his days on earth and i think that explanation is okay. There explanations justifies the 3 days and 3 nights Jesus predicted.

3 days and 3 nights, if he died on Friday Jesus cannot raise on Sunday. It's either Jesus was lying which he cannot or the Catholics had held us on pagan festivals for a long time.

brb, okay.

Some of us take these celebrations as normal and don't attach any meaning to it. It makes a great different for Christians. If not, we will follow to worship all these pagan celebrations. Jesus cannot die on Friday and resurrected on Sunday, spending three days and three nights, that we know is not possible. So the Easter celebration must be wrong.

@ Snowwy,

Basically, we are saying the same thing when it comes to the point you started in your point from Paul saying, "My defense to those who examine me is this". This is the first part of my discourse or comment to you also. Paul had a right which he "defended" here and that forms the first part of his discourse.

The second part too that is mostly ignored which is the balancing side is what you are now talking against here. I strongly believe as stated that whatever is given to us freely should be received. Our difference here is the perspective from which we are seeing it. I am seeing it from the fact that the LORD gave a commandment to them which i showed you the place Jesus commanded it. Jesus did not commanded from tithe as he, Jesus himself did not teach tithe neither did he teach the Apostles to teach tithe. We both know from the word of God that Jesus and the Apostles all received support and so i stay in that context only and don't go beyond that but you are saying because Paul said even so the Lord commanded that those who work in the temple also partake of the thing of the temple, if this is your argument, then we will come to the conclusion/argument that the things of the temple that is tithe according to you, are not money but crops and animals.

Your question about, "Paul and Barnabas also had a right to marry and they did not use this right? Are you now telling me that therefore in following Paul, we should not marry? Please answer this in light of the fact that they refused their right to this support as well".

As we know, when you mentioned some churches in your reply, of course you also know some churches follow the example of Paul not marrying. That should not be an issue of an example to follow, should it be okay to live by.

What am saying is a striking balance. I confirmed to you that they (we) that does the work of the ministry have the right to SUPPORT and I stay in that context only and only when given or offered to us. Only the levites/priest are "commanded" to have rights to receive tithes and no other tribes.

Brother, if your interpretation is based on the fact that Paul was referring those "who minister in OT feed from the things of the temple" and that refers to the tithe, then Jesus also ministered and would have received tithe since tithe is the things of the temple according to you. Other Apostles that came from another tribe would have received tithes also but they didn't. This is what am trying to let you see that "even so the Lord commanded" was given to them by Jesus in Matt 10:10 and Luke 10: 7-8. Paul was only drawing a pattern from OT which does not necessarily the same tithe since none of them are from levites, Paul cannot mean that as you interpreted it. I want you to think about this area too, only levites and priest must receive tithes. Should it be that same tithe being referred to by Paul according to you, I think even Jesus too would be that first to receive or be supported by tithe. I hope my language is clear now sir?

As you have corrected me many times to refrain from the us of some words, am trying to,lol. At least, you have seen some changes,lol. Anyway, don't mind me on that aspect. You will gradually see changes from time to time as you read my post. We both agree on supports for ministers/ministry and nobody can deny that as it is clear in the word of God. The difference here is, you see support from tithe (as being the way it is provided in the OT and that it is the way the Lord commanded it) but i see it from not necessarily tithe but whatever is given freely to us ministers/ministries as commanded by the Lord in Matt 10:10 and Luke 10:7-8. If am not getting you right, le'me know before we continue sir.

Have I answered you kweshion(s)? I was only able to spot one kweshion sir.

@ joagbaje,

Though i have not given this subject a serious attention neither did i believe in all this religious stuffs and ceremonies. I believe in our Lord Jesus Christ and forget about all these side line ceremonies but this will make me study the subject. However, do you have scriptural ground that Jesus died on Wednesday? or your conclusion is from the study of church history? or you just made calculations?

@ Snowwy,

1 Cor 9:1-18 is a discourse/teachings on "Rights of a Worker or Labourer in the work of the Lord AND SELF DENIAL TO THESE RIGHTS". You will remember we had a fellowship on this chapter when i raised the issue of salaries for preachers. After that thread, I had to re-visit the subject and be sure am not preaching/teachings something against the will of God. Thereafter, I came to this conclusion below:

Apostle Paul set out to defend his right to eat, drink and other things (v4-6) as commanded by the Lord Jesus. Where and how? Matt 10:10 and Luke 10:7-8 is the answer.

So we see that those who labour for the gospel have the right to live of the gospel as commanded by our Lord Jesus are those things that are freely given to us as we labour in the vineyard as seen in Luke 10:7-8. Like I said earlier, this is what is being transferred from the OT into the NT and we also see Apostle Paul doing same thing here. What is transferred from OT to NT is care and support for the people who ministered at the altar. (v8-9)

How did I come to this conclusion that it is same thing transferred from OT to NT? The answer is in v9-10,

For it is written in the law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain." Is it oxen God is concerned about? Or does He say [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope.

This is where the purpose of tithe from the OT comes into the NT because the tithe was for the PEOPLE THEN NOT THE TEMPLE. However, here, the word TITHE does not appear as a means of support to those who labour in the Lord, neither does it appear as WHAT THE LORD COMMANDED IN MATT 10:10, Luke 10:7-8 (as I try to use the scripture to explain scriptures). I understand your position that since, it was tithe that was being used to support the levites/priests(workers) in OT, so it has to be same TITHE in the NT but I say, you don't jump to that conclusion because we already saw what the LORD COMMANDED HERE, OK. The efforts you should have made was to find out what the Lord commanded but you jumped to conclusion that since it was tithe that was used to care for the workers then, it has to be also tithe in the NT. Such conclusion is wrong sir.

Here we see Apostle Paul calling up OT stuffs to justify a discourse but the same Apostle Paul said we are not justified by the works of the law. However, I love Paul for his balancing discourse in everything he preaches/teaches and let's see this balancing IF THE SAME CHARISMATIC WILL BALANCE AND TAKE AFTER APOSTLE PAUL.

v12
If others are partakers of [this] right over you, [are] we not even more? Nevertheless we have not used this right, but endure all things lest we hinder the gospel of Christ.

v15
But I have used none of these things, nor have I written these things that it should be done so to me; for it [would be] better for me to die than that anyone should make my boasting void.

Here we see the balancing of this discourse. I have a RIGHT TO EAT, DRINK AND OTHER THINGS TO LIVE/LIFE BUT I DO NOT USE THIS RIGHT NEITHER AM I WRITING THIS (EPISTLE/LETTER) SO THAT THESE RIGHTS SHOULD BE DONE TO ME. This is the balancing teachings of this discourse that i see the charismatics just stand on one side that favours them and neglect the other side. If we stay in context of this discourse/teachings/letter/epistle, then it is BY THE SAME FREE WILL OFFERINGS/GIVING THAT COMES TO US AS THE LABOURERS IN THE VINEYARD AS COMMANDED BY THE LORD.

Same Paul now wrote in to same Corinthians in chapter 11 v 1 that, "Imitate me, just as I also [imitate] Christ". We seems to ignore this balancing aspect of Apostle Paul.

[b]In conclusion, this epistle/discourse/letter is NOT written to justify a right (even though i am entitled to it) but rather for US TO SELF DENIAL FOR THE SAKE OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST. v15[/b]Should we receive a free will offerings if given to us as the Lord commanded? YES. Should we sit on one side of this discourse/teachings in 1 Cor 9:1-18 to "justify or demand" a right? NO. We don't demand but accept it "if or when" given to us.

Also, let me share something you might not have considered in the OT to the NT. In the OT, the Levites/Priest DO NOT HAVE INHERITANCE IN THE LAND. This is the purpose of the tithe, to carter for them. Today, minister of the gospel are not like that. They all have one thing or the other which violates the purpose of the tithes. And if we put this in context today, both pastors (if we call them priests of today) and church workers (if we call them levites of today) are all suppose to be paid or receive tithes. Then choirs are to be paid, ushers, sunday school teachers and all of the assisting groups are to be paid or receive tithes as well but you know that is not what is obtained in today's church. Hence, tithe is not the subject of support in this discourse of Paul's teachings.

Let us have fellowship on this chapter first before we go over to Hebrews.

Snowwy: @goshen,
You asked me that does tithing or not tithing make one rich and I said tithing can make one rich and not tithing can make one rich also.
Why?
Correct me if I am wrong, you stated on this thread that some people are rich that do not tithe didn't you? Ofcourse you are right. There are even stingy folks who are rich as well.
At the same time tithing can make people rich as there are blessings attached as the blessings of the Lord maketh rich and addeth no sorrow.

How did I spiritualise this?
I never said Abraham wasn't rich before tithe and never did the bible, I just answered your question.

You have said tithing is giving hence, there is nothing wrong or abolished in giving tithe, offering, to the poor, to the needy, to family, to brethren etc.

I await your responses on the others.

I will still respond to the Heb and I Cor stuff. It will be a little bit lengthy when i reply. I meant you spiritualized issue when you blend riches with being blessed and gave examples or maybe i didn't understand you, just my thought. Of course the riches and blessing or being blessed are different. We are focusing on riches in the subject of Abraham as it relates to tithe, i mean having material things/possession.

The tithing law that was abolished is what i will show you in Hebrews, just in few hours. I have to quickly reply this aspect till I return from my outing. Ok. Brb.

I think it depends how each church taught their members about this aspect and whether or not the church provide envelop for member's offerings.

This subject had been dealt with severely. You need to search out other threads here to educate yourself on this subject.

This is what I believe the bible teaches about tithe:

Biblical tithing is crops and animals, not money (even though money existed then)
Add 20% to the tithe if it had to be converted to money.
New testament believers did not tithe neither did the Apostles taught tithing but giving.
Attaching a certain Percentage to your giving makes our giving according to the law.

Hence, GO GIVE YOUR MONEY CHEERFULLY TO YOUR CHURCH OR WHERE YOUR HEART DESIRES AND REMOVE THAT PERCENTAGE CALLED (10) FROM YOUR MIND ANYTIME YOU WANT TO GIVE. GIVE WHAT YOU HAVE CHEERFULLY, GENEROUSLY AND SACRIFICIALLY AS THE LORD HAD BLESSED.

This is the principle of giving we have today in the new testament believers. This is my piece of advice sir.

Snowwy: @goshen,
You brought up the issues of the various questions I answered. You brought up the issue of Acts and I answered and asked a question...you are yet to respond to that.
If you want to stay on topic, please do. If tou bring up other scripture, please do not expect me not to respond on that as well.

1. Ofcourse, the tithe Abraham gave to Melchisedek was freely given. Does this not show to you that a tenth is part of giving though in this case it is to a priest?

2. Tithing or not tithing makes one rich ofcourse just like taking bribe can make one rich. Does it make one blessed? That is a different thing.

It would be nice to hear this 'hidden' thing in the other scriptures though as a long thread might not receive my input as it should...other things can take up ones time. If you do not hear from me may be till tomorrow, pls know I am focusing on other stuff.

So basically and as confirmed from your reply. Tithe does NOT make one rich. You tried to spiritualize issue when you said it doesn't make one blessed but can compare it with bride. Off course we are not talking about bribe now but tithe as you said it's different things. When you spiritualize it, riches relates to materials possession but being blessings relates to spiritual. The point we have both established as you agreed is tithing does not make one rich like Abraham giving all away as it is an example of a free will in this context.

Yes in regards to the Acts and other scriptures i raised, you don't have to talk on them as you pointed. I want us to stay on course. I only mentioned that cos it goes with example of free will giving too as supported in the NT. You also asked if I have personally sold my land? Not at all but have made sacrifice for the gospel and that is what that acts supports also cos it is from my free will to make that sacrifice and does not necessarily have to be a land. That was when I was at OFFA with the RCCG back in my school days.

Okay, I will then give explanation of the Hebrew 7 and 1 Cor 9 in my next post. I am also busy now but I will respond later cos it will take a detailed comment. While you wait for my comment on Heb 7 and 1 Cor 9, should in case you need to talk on the above, do not hesitate.

The word trinity does not appear in the bible. The word Trinity implies three distinct person that co-exist as one. Hence, you have Tri(three)-nity(unity). This is what it means, three persons is one. This same principle God established in marriage, two shall become one.

The mystery of the "Godhead" or "trinity" is not difficult and at the same time cannot be explained with our senses. If we admit in our real life husband and wife being (two different persons) to be ONE, how shall we not comprehend three being one. In other words, we can refer to husband and wife as "twonity or twinity" if you permit my words. They are two but function as ONE. This does not however mean there is no superior between the husband and wife. The husband is the head of the wife, so also it is in the mystery of the Godhead or trinity.

Back to the kweshion, Is Jesus God, YES but not the ALMIGHTY GOD. With man as it relates to this context, one and/plus one is two; with God, one and/plus one is one. This is my understanding sir.

Snowwy: @goshen, sorry I didn't realise you have posted this.
Like you said, Abraham gave a tenth to the priest who he met when returning from the battle of Sodom.
Suffice to say, he met him ONCE, on HIS WAY, He had ONLY the spoil with him which was now His PROPERTY.

He gave tithe of ALL even though God didn't command it like you said he gave it.

Now did you read the reason why Abraham did not take the rest of the spoil. Please read on where He said he won't take anything of the King of Sodom so the king of sodom will not say he made him rich, yet he allowed his men to take THEIR PORTION of it? Simply, he did not want anything to even do with the King of Sodom and no the king of Sodom did not get 90%. He got what was left after Abrahams men rightly took their own portion of the spoil.

Let us treat the issues one after the other, if you are not tired and if are tired then we continue tomorrow. Okay.

Let's treat our differences here on Abraham first. My first explanation is under "assumption" right. So if you are I agree God didn't command him and you included two things: that Abraham gave it but not commanded by God and also the reason he gave the rest, which to you is not necessarily 90% cos the servant had taken a certain portion. Will it be justice to interpret thus: ABRAHAM TITHE TO MELCHIZEDEK IS A FREE WILL GIVING NOT COMMANDED BY GOD AND THE REST PERCENTAGE IS ALSO A FREE WILL GIVING.

2. Will it also make sense to interpret here since Abraham gave the rest percentage after the servants took some portion, to king of sodom that for the reason of being that "So that king of Sodom will not say he made Abraham rich". Can we then conclude that tithing or no tithing does make one rich? As we have seen that Abraham was already rich before this tithing to Melchizedek. Gen 13:1-2. Can this be our interpretation? If not, state your accession from this event.

I will explain the rest chapters you gave me. No rush bros,lol. I want make we take one matter after the other sir,lol. I will show you what is hidden in that 1 Cor 9 and Hebrew 7. Make we finish thing one first sir.

^^^
No you have not replied me. Check page 15, previous page. My post (the fourth from the bottom of page 15), I answer your question about Abraham and I tried to answer it in line with 1 Cor 9 you mentioned. Am asking you to review my answer to see what you don't agree with and then i will explain Heb 7 and Matthew 23:23. That's what am saying sir. However, I cannot explain the three, I Cor. 9, along with Heb 7 and Matt 23:23 together. They all have different context sir. I will stay in the context when i interpret them to you. But review my reply to you in previous page, 4th post from the bottom and we progress sir.

Again, you said, where was the ten percent removed. The answer is it wasn't mentioned also in the gospels nor preached by the apostles which makes it free will giving and sacrificial as percentage is no more attached to giving in the NT or preached by the apostles.

@ Snowwy,

Kindly respond to my first part of your kweshion and let's look at it together before i explain the second part, of heb 7 and matt 23:23. waiting for you sir.

@ Pastor Kun,

You point are fully comprehended now and extracted below as update:

1. Because it is made "compulsory" to Christians and that makes it unbiblical - Good point
2. You are saying, If the aspect of "compulsory" is taken out, to make it Christian free will, even though it is any percentage, then it is Okay - Good point and this also still make it free will giving.
3. You are saying biblical tithe bares little resemblance to the version of today. Meaning, if you have to tithe as required biblical tithing, it has to be mainly crops and animals; if you have to give it as money conversion, then it has another 20% must be added to it or you pay tithe from crops and animals on 10% basis.
4. Tithe was a yearly event not monthly or weekly . And in some case, tithing is on third year. (mine included)
5. Tithing was not the exclusive preserve of the levites as some tithe teachers insist today, tithers can eat of their tithe or give to the less priviledge.
6. Tithing is not relevant to christianity neither is it a part of the gospel.
7. Preachers must reveal all the ABOVE (Point 1-6) facts to believers and also make it clear it is not a christian requirement.

Updated sir and serves as guideline for this discourse.

Snowwy: @goshen, I would be careful the way I say things concerning the removal of this or that. Where was the percentage of tithe removed?
Tithe is a tenth plain as possible.
Tithe was given to the Priest by Abraham, and the israelites also gave tithes to the Levites for their work in the temple. Same way Jesus commanded that those who preach the gospel should live of the gospel I Cor.9:13-14.
The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Let me start with your definition. One of the things I was taught in the bible school in interpretation of the bible is context and using the scripture to explain scriptures. This is what i will like to do here to teach my understand. Okay.

Tithe is tenth. It means if one has 100 items split into ten parts and bring one part of it right? It is still same thing as saying 10 percentage of a given number of item. We both understand the meaning of tithe and that is not an issue.

Abraham gave tithe to priest Melchizedek. Okay. You and I don't disagree on that but let's consider CONTEXT. Abraham gave tithe to Priest. Which Priest, Melchizedek.

Now let's go back to the story. Gen 14:17 - 24.

Extract from the above verses.

Abraham went to war and had victory.
He met king of Sodom
He met king of Salem who was also a priest, Melchizedek
Abraham gave tenth of the Spoils to Melchizedek
Abraham gave the rest 90% to king of Sodom
Abraham kept nothing except what his servants had eaten

First and in contracts to what tithe preachers teach today. We should tithe from our income. Here we see the items of tithes Abraham did not from his income. Now, let's some little bit of justice here. If someone goes to war and conquer some stuffs, it means those properties becomes his, right. Am sure you agree with me the answer is YES. Now let's use same "common sense" here which is not permitted anyway, but let's allow it. Abraham gave tithe from spoil, not his income but assumed to be his properties after victory so he gave tenth to the King and Priest, Melchizedek AND ALSO GAVE THE 90% TO KING OF SODOM. We will therefore do justify to interpret this context that, assuming it's our income (because the spoils had become Abraham's properties) then we also FOLLOW THE EXAMPLE OF GIVING AWAY THE 90% AND DON'T KEEP ANYTHING.

We do not have record of God commanding Abraham to do this but let's still "assume" God told Abraham to give the tithe, then we should also come to assume or conclude that same God will say give the 90% and if we interpret this, it will mean the people that stick to tithe (10%) should also give away the remaining (90%) without keeping anything.

Second, you said the israelites also gave tithes to the Levites for their work in the temple. Same way Jesus commanded that those who preach the gospel should live of the gospel I Cor.9:13-14. The labourer is worthy of his reward.

You know what? This is where you are RIGHT. And am gonna tell you why. The purpose of the tithe in OT is to CARE FOR THE LEVITES AND THE PRIESTS. Why? Simply because they don't have INHERITANCE AMONG THE PEOPLE. Numbers 18:20-21. Now the levites and priests who MINISTER IN THE TEMPLE ARE ENTITLED TO THE TITHE. This purpose is for PEOPLE NOT FOR THE TEMPLE. Let me show you how that applies today. Today, we the people are the temple and not the building. This is exactly what Apostle Paul brought into the Context of 1 Cor 9:13-14. The purpose of taking care of the people (minister) who minister in the temple HOWEVER THE PERCENTAGE WAS NOT APPLIED TO IT IN THE NT as Paul spoke and I will also tell you why, because the principle changed from the early Christians when giving becomes free will and sacrificial, starting with Acts 4:32.

Let us treat this aspect first before I go further to explain those verses you wanted me to explain, else we will mix stuffs together. Let me see where you have a different view from what I said above.

Pastor Kun: Bros it is not my fault if you are not capable of comprehending my simple position. As I have repeatedly said my grouse with tithe is the fraudulent way it is preached in church today as compulsary for christians. If that fraudulent aspect is removed and preachers make it clear to brethen that it is not a christian requirement even though they would still like believers to set aside what ever percentage they like (whether 10% or not) to give to support the church, I would not have an issue with it. If you like call it tithe or offerings it doesn't matter, just don't twist God's word chikena.

Pastor Kun: @snowwy
We both know that it is a very grievous sin to twist the word of God. So how come as a professing christian you feel comfortable with the word of God being twisted as far as tithes is concerned? As we all know biblical tithe bares very little resemblance to the fraudulent version being preached today.

@ Pastor Kun,

If i get your point or stand right. They are highlighted above in RED and GREEN. To extract your main point. You are saying:

1. Because it is made "compulsory" to Christians and that makes it unbiblical - Good point
2. You are saying, If the aspect of "compulsory" is taken out, to make it Christian free will, even though it is any percentage, then it is Okay - Good point and this also still make it free will giving.
3. You are saying biblical tithe bares little resemblance to the version of today. Meaning, if you have to tithe as required biblical tithing, it has to be mainly crops and animals; if you have to give it as money conversion, then it has another 20% must be added to it or you pay tithe from crops and animals on 10% basis.

Can you confirm my extraction sir?

Ok @ Pastor Kun,

Kindly state your stand as regards tithes and Giving as I have done. Your words are also putting me into confusion too. I have stated my stand from the light of the scriptures against tithe. I will appreciate if you do us honour here and state your stand in a very clear terms as it will help out studies here.

@ Snowwy,

I will also want you to clearly state your stand as regards tithing and giving. It will also help our discussion.

Thank you.

Snowwy: @goshen,
This topic has been looked at critically and deeply already. The issue is those aginst tithe will not let it be or see the interpretation as against theirs.
I have asked you some questions up there regarding Heb 7, I Cor. 9 and even the much disputes Matt 23:23.

They are all new testament...answering these will help us know your stand on tithe.

Two things you have asked here. I will answer the later part and we will discuss the former together. How about that? or maybe I explain how I understand Heb 7, 1 Cor 9, and Matt 23:23 so we can then have fellowship together.

This is my stand on NT tithe and Giving. There are things principles that are established in the OT and brought also into the NT BUT CHANGED. One of it is tithing. In the OT, tithing is assigned a CERTAIN PERCENTAGE,10. It is a way of giving if you look at it. The change in the NT is that, the percentage is REMOVED.

So, when the word "tithe" is used along side with giving, it makes our giving not spirit led and acting according to the law. I hope my point is clear here. It is either we follow tithe as stated in the law, which are mainly agricultural produces and animals or we take GIVING, which is not agricultural produce/animals but in terms of anything which includes money.

My point and stand is this, All giving in the NT is based on Free will and Sacrificial that should be done cheerfully, not compulsion and done generously BUT NOT BASED ON THE LAW OF CERTAIN PERCENTAGE. I also believe, our giving as seen in the NT should go to poor, our Christian brethren in need/in the body of Christ, to the support of faithful ministry and to the orphans/widows. This is my stand as regards tithing and giving.

On the subject of Heb 7, 1 Cor 9 and Matt 23:23. I will like us to look at it together as no scriptures is of private interpretation or do you want me to explain my view about those chapters and we look at it together.

@ Snowwy and Pastor Kun,

I "think" there is a misconception somewhere in between both of your/our statement or views. What Pastor kun is saying is, when he said we are not attacking tithe per say, if i understand him from all of his post, comments and thread is that, tithe is biblical but not as it preached today. If it has to be true biblical tithing, then it has to be how it is commanded in the law. When we say we want to stick to the law and break one of it, then it means all is broken. We take it (law) all or none. We can't take some and leave some.

Now, tithe as commanded by God is: agricultural produces and animals and not monthly as being preached today. Not everybody does farming today. God also made room that if it has to be converted to money, then certain percentage must be added to it and that doesn't make it 10% anymore. It will therefore mean that even those that preach tithe don't make tithe biblical since they are asking it in money as against the items of biblical tithing.

This is what I "think" Pastor Kun is saying except he wants to speak for himself aside my observation.

[quote author=ndu_chucks]Meeennn, why are you looking for my trouble again? I've told you to incorporate common sense in your utterances, but it appears you are not yet sober. Imagine your statement above where you purport to be asking God to take a bad behavior out of you - how convenient. Common sense would suggest that you take responsibility for your bad habits and understand that you alone will have to change it yourself. No holy or ven evil spirit will do that for you.[/quote]First, I have henceforth taken caution how i talk since my other christian brothers had shown me my lope holes and am willing to make changes. I will take it from you that you are beginning to attack my person instead of treating issues. I "think" it's because you don't agree with me on issue of tithing so you have taken it personal to attack my words. Now, let me point it to you clearly that you have taken my words out of context as i acknowledged God can help me even as i acknowledged to take responsibility for my wrongs, look at it here highlighted and bolded, you seems not to see that but attacking my person. It's no beef sir. Let's treat issues. Correct me, if I err and I will heed.

goshen360: @ Snowwy,
First, I will say you are the second person that will correct my statement of telling people they are not bible students are the likes. I thank you for that, I have since the first person said it taken a caution and ask the Lord to take it out of me, however, it's also something I should deal with myself. In other words, the fact that I know doesn't make mean I should castigate others who don't know but teach them. I agree with you bro, by the spirit of God. Thank you.

Can you see my statement in RED. It's no beef. It's treat issues not my person. I have taken correction from my fellow christian brothers and i thank you also. Now let's treat issues sir.

[quote author=ndu_chucks]Secondly you are so full of yourself with the statement that "I know doesn't make mean I should castigate others who don't know but teach them." Please note that a good definition for a fool is a man, "who does not know, and does not know that he does not know, and as a matter of fact, thinks that he knows enough to teach others, when he himself is in the dark. SMH[/quote]Ok. This second point you also raised is what Snoowwy and one brother corrected me. I have taken correction on telling others they are not a bible student, castigating them, telling them to sit down and i teach them. No beef sir. That is taken care off. I acknowledged am wrong using those words and it is already dealt with sir. Thank you sir.

Snowwy: @goshen, it is great to see ones mistakes and be willing to correct it or apologise...something many shy away from.
May we avail ourselves of the grace God has given us in Christ.

[s]On tithing we did not conclude because you were ready to start from the NT scriptures of which I found strange since my bible starts from the OT scriptures. I decided not even bother when you further said you did not even believe in giving offering in church. [/s]
If as you said then that we should drop all prejudices or any foreknowledge we had of athe bible, why start from the NT. The bible is a complete book hence we are to start from the very begining to do justice.
You have already started a bible study thread which should avail everyone the opportunity to make inputs, that should suffice, I guess.

Thank you my dear brother. One of the things I have given you credit for since meeting you on the religious session. I stroked the above because I "think" you assume so. I didn't mean we should start from from NT. Never will I say that and if i had said it, may have said it in error. I don't mean so say that sir. Having clarified that, can we look at this subject critically and deeply sir? Here or create another thread, which do you prefer? I will wait for your response.

@ Snowwy,

First, I will say you are the second person that will correct my statement of telling people they are not bible students are the likes. I thank you for that, I have since the first person said it taken a caution and ask the Lord to take it out of me, however, it's also something I should deal with myself. In other words, the fact that I know doesn't make mean I should castigate others who don't know but teach them. I agree with you bro, by the spirit of God. Thank you.

Second, when you and I engaged tithe teaching, we didn't conclude when we started. You have always known me for open to correction like we talked on preacher's salary. I don't mind you and I to engage the truth of tithe here in this thread or we open another thread. Let us for once since we read same bible dig deep and see the truth of it, if you don't mind. The fundamental truth is, biblical tithe is not as being preached today and you know it. Well, I will wait for your response sir. Thanks.

First video, 30 mins video against mastubation and other issues in the body of Christ.

[flash]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPhpPpI57Y8?version=3&hl=en[/flash]

Second video, 4 minutes video for mastubation and supported Pastor Chris. Happy viewing.

[flash]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-bUD_4vamo?version=3&hl=en[/flash]

^^^
Do you believe Jesus was still under the law when he made that statement you quoted? And after he died and the law is already fulfilled, why are we still trying to keep it? An answer required sir.

Hutho: Jesus says, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them (Matthew 5:17). I absolutely agree that tithing is not wrong those who don't tithe are stingy people and argue for not tithing. You guys go make a church for yourselves to see how prosperous you will be. I am afraid you will go empty handed with your church.

This is your statement is baseless sir. Are you aware there are people that don't tithe but still give and are blessed. Can you explain how they are stingy and still become rich?

Eating meat or not? All religious garbage. Was man created for meat or meat created for man?.

I see some Christians still getting their living only from first Adam and enslaved in the religious har.lot system.

So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:45.

"Come out from among them" saith the Lord. 2 Corinthians 6:17, Rev. 18:4

It should bother us anyway. The reason is that, if it doesn't bother us, we will be following some kind of religious activities that is not part of the apostolic teachings. I have not considered this myself but something inside me tells me its all religious nonsense. This will propel me to do my study on this subject though. I speak for myself though.

^^^
No wahala. Thank you bro.

Ok boss. I got it now. However, someone reading this thread helped me faster in response. Thanks. Happy Easter too. God bless you.

italo: Lol. So the RCCG which is your good example of 'a true church of God' was founded by a man.

A man founded your 'body of Christ'

Lord have mercy!

Sir, why are you taking my words out of context. I don't like sir.

goshen360: Bolded in black. My same thought but you have explained it in a better way. What has the church of Jesus turned into? Many Christians thought they are worshiping God but never realized they are secretly being used to help a successive family establishment that will remain a family inheritance, it is called monument not church. Examples of true church is found in the word of God.

Bolded in Red. One of the good examples in that area is the RCCG and I thank God for the founder. This is one thing I hate so much about this religious people. When it comes to things like installing their family members as successor, they quote the old testament and when it comes to things that favours them, they quote the new testament. Imagine the one recent one i watched in the U.S here quoting God as God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I shook my head. Is the church born out of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob or born out of Christ? Obviously, the answers are very clear.

SMH.

My statement in Red stated I acknowledged the true church while my statement in green acknowledged my fact that RCCG is a good example of the true church as it relates to successor which the founder of RCCG acted according to the true church based on the word of God. Can you spot the difference sir?

@ Image123,

It didnt work. pls check it out again and re-do it for me. thanks