₦airaland Forum

@ Poster,

My brother, there is a limit to what we know about life. Sometimes, we cannot understand some mysteries of life. It's so painful but I pray you find a rest in your heart. I have seen suffering in my life time but alas, God had made me stronger in all. Kindly email me on goshen360@yahoo.co.uk and send me your mobile contact in the email. I will give you a call when I wake up tomorrow. I reside in the United States anyway. If I can still get your email tonight before I sleep, i will call tonight but if I can't get your email, I will call you tomorrow. Okay.

Well, If you have made up your mind but before you step down from God, listen to my story.

Many years back when I just gave my life to Christ back home in Nigeria. I grew up with my uncle but after my polytechnic, I had to return back to my biological father to assist him in our family business. I was there back home then in Badagry, Lagos State when I lost 3 of my sisters in an accident. Right on the spot of the accident, they all died. It's a long story as it involves many things that was later revealed. On the accident scene, I felt like burning the vehicle that hit my sisters while ridding on the Okada but I don't know where this voice came from that, I should not do it as many things are invisible to my eyes.

I write this not to convince you, should in case your mind is already made up but, that you know that worse things had happened to good people in the past than what had happened to you. I feel heavy in my heart as I write you even as I remember my sisters but however, I also use this moment to console you and your family. All over the world, things are happening but God knows best. What shall separate us from the love of Christ? As for me, nothing. Not even life nor death.

I console you in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. God knows best but don't make decision in a haste.

Thank you and God bless you.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, [because] they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn [their] ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 2 timothy 4:3-4 nkjv

Send me your full name to goshen360@yahoo.co.uk and tell me exactly in the email what you are believing God for,as the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters in the beginning, so shall it move in your case in Jesus name. Amen.

[quote author=Joel.]My friend ur questions are irrelevant.[/quote]lol. I call you a brother but you call me "my friend" and say my questions are irrelevant? That's kind of weird. Anyway, let me point to you that am not an unbeliever neither am i an Atheist, okay. Am a born again believer. And what makes you think my questions are irrelevant? Because am putting your teachings/article under scrutiny? lol. You have no idea what i want us to make out of this. At the end, you will thank me and be my best friend on this session,okay.

[quote author=Joel.]Ok i'm learning from you where did the darkness came from? And what are the heavens[/quote]Now you are talking. I will answer one of these two questions and leave you to make simply research of the heavens created here and when you come back, we will continue. I have to go do other things for today,okay.

Now thar darkness in Genesis 1:2 is simply NOT any kind of spiritual darkness but physical. I am not saying this from my head. You need to use scriptures to explain scriptures and let the bible interpret itself. Look at this verse and God himself was speaking about the beginning in Genesis here:

Job 38:4-9 nkjv

"Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell [Me], if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy? "Or [who] shut in the sea with doors, When it burst forth [and] issued from the womb; When I made the clouds its garment, And thick darkness its swaddling band"

So here in these verse above, we see that in the creation of the earth, the darkness came as a result of the clouds that covered the earth from heaven (the invisible you are talking about). So, we KNOW that when God created the earth it was dark because it was covered with clouds.

I can give you the picture or my imagination of how i saw it happened in the beginning but i don't have much time again for today. Maybe we continue tomorrow, God willing.

Then for the heavens. There are 3 heavens all together in the bible.

1. The Invisible, from where God exist and invisible to man's physical eyes which is what you are talking about and I told you I agree. This is the same invisible that John showed us as revelation in John 1:1 and also, check Colossians 1:15-17

2. The firmament is also called heaven read the whole of Gen 1:8. This heaven is the sky, the atmosphere, our immediate cloud/sky around the earth. snow and rain also consist from this heaven by the power of God.

3. The Outer Space or Starry heaven where the sun, moon and stars are located and fixed. Gen 1:14-19.

So when Gen 1:1 says, God created the heavenS and earth. That heavens there are TWO, created from the invisible heaven where God dwells that is not mentioned in Gen 1 creation account but was mentioned in John 1:1-2 and also in Colossians 1:15-17 and other places in the scriptures.

I will rest here for today. We will continue tomorrow and continue to look at the holes I found out in your article also. I will wait for you today in the next 10 - 20 minutes in case you have question from what i just said now. Thank you.

It's a good place to share views, listen to other people's idea, learn great things etc but beware of addiction to nairaland,lol.

Good observation. Let's wait and hope we get good answers. I have thought of same thing in the past. However, I think it shouldn't be a MUST to wed in the church and that those who don't do church wedding should not be recognized. What matters is LOVE between spouse and happy marriage. This is my view but I hope to get more answers though.

Okija,

You still haven't answered my last question sir

Goshen360: @ Okija_juju,
Well, you just told us Jesus turned water into wine and encouraged us to do so in remembrance of him. So you do you talk alcoholic wine for communion? You also gave what you "think" was the reason Jesus turned water into wine. You also answered one side of the question and left the other side of the question unanswered.

Secondly, You didn't answer my question about Timothy's stomach but systematically dodge the question. You should be honest with your answers. Answer the questions in full. They are 4 in 2 questions sir.

[quote author=Joel.]chech this link for other bible translation.
bible.cc/genesis/1-1.htm

there is other scripture that point out three heavens. But i tell you its spiritual. Because there is also kingdoms in river, sea and ocean. This this are not physical you cannot find God up there as its said the sky has no ending. Darkness? I told you that anything before creationg is not reveal in the bible. So you leave that to God[/quote]First I have that bible translation you gave me and even more.

Second, something inside me tells me you still need to do some more studies about Genesis 1:1-2 only and maybe you will get what am trying to point you to. Am not being rude sir, just a suggestion.

I asked you about darkness in Gen 1:2, your answer is highlighted in RED above. But that verse is NOT heaven. That verse is on earth here at creation. Look at it below:

The earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. nkjv

Can you see what am pointing you to? This is just one of the holes in your article we are trying to deal with. I still have many holes to let you see from the articles but we are still struggling with just this one. So, this is not heaven, this is earth here in creation. Now, again, can you explain where that darkness (on earth) came from? This is NOT heaven sir.

@ Okija_juju,

[quote author=Okija_juju]Jesus turned water into wine for many reasons including; Obedience to his mothers request and secondly keeping the party going.Once more, stop focusing on Timothy and look beyond. Jesus ate bread and drank wine at the last supper and even encouraged us to do this as often drink this in remembrance of him. . .Did you read through my other post about Jesus and wine?![/quote]Well, you just told us Jesus turned water into wine and encouraged us to do so in remembrance of him. So you do you talk alcoholic wine for communion? You also gave what you "think" was the reason Jesus turned water into wine. You also answered one side of the question and left the other side of the question unanswered.

Secondly, You didn't answer my question about Timothy's stomach but systematically dodge the question. You should be honest with your answers. Answer the questions in full. They are 4 in 2 questions sir.

Okay. You are simply not getting my point. You think am religious? You are probably missing on my person which you have no idea about.

Okay, let me ask these two final question and that will decide if we will continue or not,okay.

1. The heaven in Gen 1:1, is it plural or singular? which one do you believe it is?
2. The darkness in Gen 1:2, where did it come from?

[quote author=Okija_juju]Fire !![/quote]1. Can you tell us the purpose of Christ turning water into wine and Can you turn water into wine?

2. Do you bother to find out what issue is it with Timothy stomach and will you pray to have the same kind of issue with Timothy's stomach in your life?

Give us answers to these questions.

Still the same point. I think i might have to back out of this. You are still not getting my point. There is something i want to show you but you are missing it.

Okay, let accept the Good News translations says, "Universe" What does the universe entails? Again, what translation are you using?

Well, I think you are making this discussion going round. You might be making this discussion/fellowship boring as well.

Okay, What is your understanding of heaven? You cannot just say the heaven is up. I'm trying to show you something here.
2. How many heavens are there created in Gen 1:1?
3 Is the heaven mentioned in Gen 1:1 plural or singular?

Back your answers with scriptures please. And also, you said you've got time today. You have to stay on board, checking every 5-10minutes at interval because am gonna be replying you immediately. That way, our discussion can go smoothly.

[size=15pt]@ Those saying Jesus turned water into wine and Paul told Timothy to drink a little,[/size]

Can I ask you guys in the above mentioned category just TWO questions please?

@ wesley80,

Okay. You are good on all the three questions. On the third question also, just like you, I will not also "condemn" even an Atheist for not believing in God simple because, an Atheist can change tomorrow. So also, I wont condemn a pharmacist for stocking condoms but it still doesn't mean I will support and Atheist or the pharmacist that stocked such condoms. When we, believers who are called by the name of the Lord begin to do somethings like the worldly people and there is no difference, we've got problem somewhere my brother.

I don't know if it's you or someone else talking about Paul writing to Timothy about taking little wine for his stomach and Jesus turning water to wine. I just pray people will not just hide behind some kind of bible verses to justify some fleshy things. I am not going into that here as am not in the mood for much talk today.

Pastor Chris should know more than what he says in the open. Everybody listening to Chris are not on same level of faith. Some people will abuse what he says and keep living in sin and because Chris had been idolized, they won't see anything wrong in what they are doing even when someone else is telling then the truth. I won't say more than this for now as i don't intend going into much talking today. I will rest this talk for now.

God bless you bro.

^
1. Are you are born again Christian?
2. Do you think all sins are recorded in the bible, as in the bible being specific about all sins under heaven?
3. If you are born again believer, can you do a business that involves say like, burial ground, selling casket, producing alcohol and/or cigarette?

Answers to these questions, then i will decide to either drop this discussion as you suggested or continue and show you some things from the word of God.

Okay. We don't have issue with pre-existence to Gen 1:1 as we see from scriptures the things that pre-exist Gen 1:1.

Gen 1:1 says, "In the beginning, God created the heavenS and the earth"

This is an opening statement by Moses. It's like an introduction or prologue to a writing. From Gen 1:2 starts the breakdown to how the heavens and earth was created.

Now, first question here is, Heaven is in plural, as in heavens. How many heavens were created here? Do you have answers to these?

When we understand this, then verse two will be easier. Do you know how many heavens was it?

Okay bro Joel,

Do I take it that you don't know the answer to my question? Then I can proceed to tell you and we can then start to look at some of the holes in your article. Please, don't misunderstand me sir, am not condemning your articles, it's fine but just that it has some holes and we can look at it together. Like you said, you have being studying the beginning for some time now. Maybe God is bring you in contact with people to share more light to your study. We can have fellowship together in studying the word,okay. You are not alone sir.

Also, I don't know if you have much time today? I will be online all day today except I take a break to do some other things. Let me know if you will have enough time today for this discussion. Thank you.

@ wesley80,

I will like to ask you few questions, if you don't mind. Your answer will enable me to decide whether to drop this discussion or not. Let me know if you are willing to answer these questions. Thank you.

You have not answered my question. I believe and agree with you that genesis 1:1 is only the beginning of creation of heavenS (plural), not heaven,and earth. We both agree on that. We also agree that Angels, Christ, and hosts of others was in the invisible realm, which you called the spirit realm. Ok.

Now back to my first question, in genesis 1:2, there was a darkness on earth right? Where did that darkness came from is my first question. Let's start to close the holes in your article. We are both learning,ok.

I also asked you which word study series do you use? See my question from my previous post before this post.

wesley80: So you think every smoker and drinker is going to hell and Christians working in such companies are also sinners? What Pastor Chris has said can only be called heresy by the naive as his point is pretty clear to the open minded. Like Apostle Paul said " all things are lawful unto me but I'll not be brought under the control of anything". Ponder on that.

And exactly are you saying? That it is okay for a Christian to smoke and drink alcohol? Is this what you're saying?

@ logicboy,

Frosbel in the other thread answered you and image123 also gave you scriptures. I stand with them but I don't judge you still. My point is simply.

We might be saying same thing but in a different way. To be honest with you, you yourself, logicboy don't even know what happens to you tomorrow. You don't know so the issue of if you die an atheist is unsure. On the other hand, image123 has no right to condemn anyone,dats my point.

That's not what am telling her o. I told her to read and apply it in context, she will understand what Jesus was talking about. I don't mean her to use it for tithe as the context was specific. I might not have typed well because am typing from my fone. Thanks bro.

Thank you and God bless you. Somebody just need to tell Chris to stop these heresies he preaches everywhere. This is crazy.

@ Image123,

Nooooo. That is too judgemental and condemnation. You don't do that to people,seriously. What if he repents tomorrow? What are you gonna say. I don't agree with your above statement pls.

You need to apply mark 12:17 in its context. Kindly read it in its context,you will get what Jesus was talking about.

I NEVER said or believe that about bro. Quote me where i said that to you. Don't have misconception about me please. Okay.

mkmyers45: Cant his prayer avail much and avert it?

From my understanding, his prayer or prayer of the person involved can avert a situation like that of king Hezekiah but if it pleases the Lord, that is, if God in his infinite wisdom sees that it is better for such person to come home and rest, then God will still do his will.

mkmyers45, how una dey today? Hope your day was good?

^^^
Whatever bro, I love you still. Never mind. How was your day today?

^^^
YOU ARE ON SPOT BRO. PRAISES TO YOU.