₦airaland Forum

The Baptism of Fire

There are two views on what the baptism of fire means: There is a judgment coming at the 2nd Coming of Christ when all nonbelievers are taken from the earth. Jesus taught several parables in reference to the end of time when believers and unbelievers will be separated Mt.25 the sheep from the goats. They will join the unbelievers from all time in hell who are waiting for the Last Judgment (The Great White Throne Judgment in Rev. 20). This occurs at the end of the Millennium when they are resurrected and put back in their bodies and put in the lake of fire. The Bible teaches that this baptism is for unbelievers in judgment.

Mt. 3:11: John speaking, "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will thoroughly clean out his threshing floor; and gather his wheat into the barn; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Only the Holy Spirit is for believers.

Luke 3:9 "And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."17"His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire."

This certainly is a reference to Mt.25:41 (also Mt.3:10; Rev.14:10)

we know this means judgment because John and Jesus explain it: John answered, saying to all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. "His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire."

Jesus said in Acts 1:5: "for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." He never baptized anyone in fire.

Fire is often symbol for judgment throughout the Bible. Examples are the fire which burned the sacrifice on the Hebrew altar, and the fire from God which burned the watered down sacrifices of Elijah and the prophets of Baal.

Fire and brimstone fell on Sodom and Gomorrah. The world will be cleansed by fire as it was by the flood in the end of time 2 Pt.3:10.

Heb. 10:27: "but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries."

II Thess. 1:8: "In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The believers are to go into the millennium, the unbelievers are "cast off" into fire. These parables are analogies to the baptism of fire.

The other view is a purifying affect

1 Pet 1:7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

1 Pet 4:12: " Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you."

1 Cor. 3:13: "Each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is." meaning our work on earth will have its test in heaven to see if it accompanies us into eternity.

The baptism of fire is more applicable to judgment than fiery trials in a believers life. (Read Matt 13:24-30 and Jesus' explanation later in Matt 13:36-40)

The Baptism of Jesus

Jesus was baptized in the Jordan by John the Baptist, and began his ministry after he was consecrated Luke 3: 21

Acts 10:38 tells us that He was anointed with the Holy Spirit.

As a human, He was in submission to God to fulfill all righteousness and was anointed for His ministry like all priests.. He received a special anointing of the Holy Spirit for His public mission. ( Acts 10:38 ). Jesus was divinely consecrated for the work of redemption, being an eternal priest from the order of Melchizedek.

In Matt. 3:15, Jesus tells us that His baptism was 'to fulfill all righteousness." The basic action of baptism is identification, so Jesus identified with righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law. The Levitical Law required that all priests were to be consecrated when they began their ministry at about 30 years of age). He being a man needed, to be anointed like the prophets of old. He Identified with the believing remnant and also with sinners even though he was not one also with mankind (sinners even though he was not one) (1 Cor. 5:21; Matt.3:11 ).

Remember he was introduced as the lamb to take away the sins of the world. This was a unique baptism because it had nothing to do salvation but a submission to the will of God. He Identified himself with the preaching of the Kingdom and repentance by John the Baptizer. ( Matt. 3:1-2 )

Jesus identified with righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law, to fulfill all righteousness.

All Baptism as recorded in the bible.

The Baptism of John - Repentance

The Baptism of Jesus - Anointing, begins ministry of prophet and priesthood

The Baptism of Fire - Purifying or judgment

The Baptism of Moses - Deliverance of the nation Israel

The Baptism of the Cross - The suffering of death for our sins

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit - Being saved and put in the body of Christ also for service.

The Believers Baptism - Identification with Christ by water baptism.

amor4ce: Haven't you stubbornly refused to accept that Jesus is not the name of the Son of God, and that Jehovah or Lord is not the name of God? Haven't you gleefully accepted the fake Christianity? Have you sought to know why it is that compared to the old testament there are strange names in the new testament?

We know in PART.

Pastor Kun: Goshen could you forward the mail to me as well? Wld love to read it.

Ok sir. You have it bro.

I had wanted to do a thread like this. I guess God is working in all.

Melchizedek is a type and shadow of Christ. He is not Christ but he Pre-figured Christ. Many people use Melchizedek to claim tithe as you have said but if something is a type and shadow and the real thing comes, does the shadow or type still come? My fear is that, this thread if continued, might lead to argument of tithe. The Priesthood of Melchizedek is not to claim tithe but to show the superiority of Christ fulfillment in the type and shadow that was in Melchizedek, because there is already a change of law in priesthood.

Both type and fulfillment of Melchizedek are king and priest. By their being no genealogical line with no record of birth or death he prefigures Christ as the priest who continues forever. In the Old Testament no King could be a priest, no priest could function as a King. Only Christ is able to fill the office of being a Priest, a Prophet and a King Heb.7:17, 20, 24. If Melchizedek was Christ we would have to deal with two incarnations, since all priests were taken from among men. If he was Jesus who became man then his birth through Mary would be a second incarnation. If he is a type of the one who was to come, then it would certainly fit the Biblical account and make more sense. This however remains an enigma with scholars debating on both sides but all agree together in its typology.

Can we dig deeper? If you care, hit the reply button.

Yes, basically if one don't use kjv, such person dont hv a bible. I use kjv and nkjv. It's best to stick to one and use others, maybe online just to get a better or clearer picture where necessary.

buzugee: We all learn from each other my Oga Goshen how they say ? PROVERBS 27 VS 17 As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another

You are right bro and also in NT, "we know in part and we prophesy in part". 1 Cor 13:9. Dagon PART 3, Coming out soon,lol. So heavy stuff,lol

stagger: Your mother! It is your mother's unclothedness you are insulting! Idiot! Let me finish my professional course. I will feed your carcass to vultures. Son of a LovePeddler!

And why do you have to finish a course before you can act. It shows you are a coward and you are still saying this after your words had fallen to the ground. Your words had return back to you and that proves you wrong. Humble yourself and heed the advice: STOP THREATENING PEOPLE WHEN THEY SPEAK THE TRUTH AGAINST YOUR DEMI-god or BELIEVE/PRACTICE, STOP CURSING AND STOP GIVING VAIN ULTIMATUM TO PEOPLE, YOU ARE NOT THEIR CREATOR AND IT IS NOT THE WAY OF CHRIST.

He that have ears, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. God bless you.

violent: If you've got at least some common sense, I'd hope you can take this lesson with you; Never Never Never issue empty threats/vain ultimatums to people who are well capable of shyting all over you. You'd most certainly end up looking they way you look right now; completely stooopid!

What a great word of advice! Unfortunately he won't learn this great lessons of life. One thing I hate about members of winners' chapel is that fact they are always cursing, threatening, giving vain ultimatums and at the end, their words fall to the ground. This is not the Christianity of Jesus. Well, I don't blame them; like father like pikins.

Martian: What hidden things has god revealed to little children and why would anyone reveal something to little children instead of reasonable adults? Or is thi one of those spiritual doublespeak?

Something shows you are not a student of the word. The children in context there means the disciples, the believers on Jesus Christ. Children there is being used figuratively. This is why the bible says, STUDY. Those that read bible don't make anything out of it. Let the bible explain itself using other verses and you will get it.

@ LoJ and buzugee,

Am following you guys and learning good. Great job.

The Prophet Revelation of "Dagon" to the body of Christ - Part 3, COMING SOON! WATCH OUT

GOD BLESS YOU ALL.

OLAADEGBU: "Remember the Sabbath Day." It is a sign of Israel's covenant with God (Exodus 31:13–17). There was nothing like it in any other nation. It was to be a day of rest and worship for the family (Isaiah 58:13,14).

This shows you are still following the letters.

who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 2 Cor 3:6 nkjv

The Sabbath is Saturday. Why don't you and your church worship on Saturday?

Man is not made for the Sabbath, the Sabbath is made for man and the NT believers don't follow Sabbath.

And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. "Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath." Mark 2:27-28 nkjv

Now on the first [day] of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight. Acts 20:7 nkjv.

Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: On the first [day] of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. 1 Cor 16:1-2 nkjv.

OLAADEGBU: Anything on your mind that will blow my mind is certainly not welcomed.

Brother, you are a Christian and stop acting like you are the Alpha and Omega in the word of God for we know in part and prophesy in part 1 Cor 13:9.

Again, "I will blow your mind" is not the word of God, It's my own word. People say things that they don't mean it as negative. If you have issues with my words, kindly ask for explanation and not jump to conclusion.Ok.

Also, of all our discussion, you didn't say anything to the thread only for you to pick on just that fact that I said, "I will blow your mind". You r making big issues out of it.

@ Image123,

I thank God for people like you that enable deeper study of the word. God bless you. We may disagree on some issues based on our different understanding. Permit me to share more light on the various scriptures you have raise and you see that scriptures does not contradict itself, IF ONLY WE STUDY DEEPER.

Likewise He also [took] the cup after supper, saying, "This cup [is] the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. Luke 22: 20 nkjv.

Firstly, I will like to add this to your understanding of words when studying the scriptures. I do not discredit anyone for their understand but we are all learning and we need to learn very well, esp when it comes to the word of God.

I have used colour to show you what I want to talk about. Notice sir, Jesus said, "IN MY BLOOD". The testament is still in His blood as at when he spoke these words. It has to be shed to take to effect or activate the testament which goes down to what Hebrew writer said in Heb 9:16-17 nkjv,

For where there [is] a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament [is] in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

You have being a good friend in studying the word of God with me on this forum. One thing I have learnt from my bible school is that, YOU CANNOT TAKE ONE VERSE OF THE BIBLE AND SIT ON IT. You need to check the lenght, breath and depth of every scriptures. Now you can see I have upgraded on testament. That is why I suggested those materials if you can afford it, you will surely thank me for life. Long story short, Jesus had to shed that blood to effect the testament and the verse you quoted said, "In" my blood.

You also said, on whose authority do we say the books are Old testament. Certainly, on the authority of same scriptures. I have just shown you that. One thing you also need to also know is, When Jesus was on earth and the testament was in His blood, All what he did was writing the "will" or "testament" for us and as you know, it will only take effect after His death, Resurrection and ascension. If people say, it is after His death, they are right to their own understand, if some say it is after Resurrection, they are right to their understanding, and if people like me say it is after ascension, we are right based on our understanding. The fact and truth guiding us IS THE THAT IT TAKES EFFECT "AFTER".

"The law and the prophets [were] until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. Luke 16:16 nkjv.

You are right that when you said, "we mostly agree that the OT is the law and the prophets. The old testament books are referred to as the aw and the prophets. In lay general understanding, Jesus is here saying that the OT stops at John the baptist. On the basis of this, the gospels pass as new testament. John is just a peripheral intro in all the gospels. The New covenant is already in effect in the eyes of Jesus. That's why He could say THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AMONG YOU"

A few correction here and we can look at it together also. The OT didn't stop at that time. There is introduction to new dispensation, the dispensation of the gospel. Off course, the gospel begins with REPENTANCE and that is what John began to preach. It is different to when the testament took effect. As to the Kingdom of God is among you, I believe he (Jesus) is the one that brought the Kingdom of God among them but they didn't know it neither did they see or Him (Jesus) who had brought the Kingdom of God to them. I will write and article soon on the fact that Israel didn't accept him and the Kingdom of God was taken away from them to "NATION" that bears fruit of the kingdom and accept Christ.

I don't know if this is clear enough to make more understanding. If not, kindly raise more question sir. Thanks

OLAADEGBU: Blow my mind? God forbid! Folks should keep away from anything that seeks to blow their minds away!

"BELOVED, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

And what is that supposed to mean? I know you and I don't agree based on some of your false teachings. You rather didn't contribute to the thread but come up with negative contribution. When I said, blow your mind, do you know what is on my mind?

@ Image123 and Everyone,

I have shown you before and will show you again.

The arrangement of the bible is okay as it is but when you do deeper studies and you read the bible as a whole in context, you will discover what I shared with you in the bible quiz thread:

The patriachal or father Age: Gen to Exodus 19.
The Jewish or Israel Age: Ex 20 to John's Gospel/Acts 1
The Christian or NT age: Acts 2 to Christ coming.

It is okay with the arrangement just as you said probably the writers knows something we dont know yet for we know in part and we prophesy in part 1 Cor 13:9. You will also agree that God cannot establish any covenant with the Israelites when they are still in Egypy so He had to first bring them out. That is why in context of bible study, that age is called the father age cos God speaks to people through the fathers/Patriach then. Okay. so it continued to Christ. You also agree christ lived under the law and he obey the law but break some laws. Those laws Christ broke are laws that the Pharisees had made to be burden on God's people such as sabbath, washing hand before eating, fasting etc. As you know, the law was not given to be a burden but to be a school master training the Israelites the way of obedience. Well, I may also have to blow your mind telling you that, Israel as a nation and geo-political location are no longer God's chosen people. They used to be but no more. they are just like the believers all over the world who are the chosen people since Israel rejected Christ as the Messiah. The believers as church of the body of Christ are God's chosen people now, When God was working through Israel, it is the church, believers in Jesus that God had in mind. Israel's rejection of Christ worked together for God's plan. Romans chapter 9 through chapter 11. Also see, 1 Peter 2:9 and who were the people Peter was writing to in 1 Peter 2:9, go to 1 Peter 1:1-5. Israel will only fit into God's people again if individual or the nation as Christ as Lord, Saviour and Messiah.

What I promised to give you are below, If you have money, you can get the study aids that have changed my study recently or visit www.christianbook.com for preview the materials:

Strong's Exhaustive concordance of the Bible (Updated edition) by James Strong.

Word Study Series:
The Complete Word Study Dictionary (NT) for Deeper understanding of the word by Spiros Zodhiates
The Complete Word Study Dictionary (OT) for deeper understanding of the word by Warren Baker and Eugene Carpenter.

Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of OT and NT keyed to Strong's Concordance (optional,the 2 word series are better than Vine)

Holman illustrated bible dictionary, revised and expanded.

The Complete WordStudy New Testament with Parallel Greek Text By Spiros Zodhiates, Th.D.

NKJV Chronological Study Bible (OT and NT Chronological order of the bible)

NKJV Study Bible - The complete Resource for accuracy, beauty and clarity

ESV MacArthur Study Bible (Optinal)

You can check out the preview of these materials at www.christianbook.com and type each of these materials. Under the picture of each material, you will see "Additional Views", click on it and see few pages of the inside. They are helpful if you can afford to buy them in Nigeria.

Hope to hear from you though.

Fhemmmy: Where in the bible do we read such change?
Also, we have always been giver, so being a giver do not take away from being a tither . . .

To ask me where in the bible do we read such Law that changed tithe? Again, You probably are not a student of the bible. I dont mean insult though. Now let me show you:

Read Heb 7: 1 to 16. Your answer to change of law of tithing is in verse 11 to 14 (Emphasis on v 11-14). In the OT, God asked for and was specific about tithing being 10% and not monetary, even though money existed then but in NT, he simply wants us to give and give aboundantly, freely, cheerfully and without grudges, God didn't restrict us to certain percentage unlike tithing. It is religious act to still tithe. Why is it only tithe that the religious people take out of the OT and not other things? Why? Cant you answer that.

Am waiting sir.

Fhemmmy: [color=#990000]Where did you study?
It is like you are driving a Toyota Camry and you are referring to the manual of an Honda Accord to fix the machine, it wont work.
The Bible is the book of advice, lecture and discipline from God through His spirit and where in that book do you see that?[/color]

I study because the same word of God tells me to STUDY. It's not the same as just reading. Though reading and studying are inseperable but Study takes you deeper. You are searching the deep things. I guess you are not a study of the word and you cant even tell that the word of God tells us to STUDY.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 tim 2:15 KJV

You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, John 5:39 NIV

Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. Acts 17:11 NIV

Imagine as heavy as Apostle Paul was, he taught and the Bereans still have to search or study to see if what Paul taught was true. Our Christian generation today are soooooo lazy that they just swallow whatever that comes from the pulpit and from any man. I AM NOT THAT KIND BRO.

@ image123,

I will show or give you something that will blow your mind and Christian study/ life forever. I will do that when I wake up. You will forever thank me. What I teach is a product of my study, digging deeper into the word and by revelation. This is what puts you on top of normal Christians. I hv chosen this path because there are too much falsehoods in today's church.

I will give you something that will blow your mind. Even in chronological order, Matthew is NOT the first book of the supposed NT. It's okay the way it is just for easy accessibility but in context, they are part of OT that gives us the synoptic account of the testator to the NT.

God willing, when I wake up. Stay blessed and by the way, am not seeing you in the bible study session. Why? Baptism topic ends this Sunday, another topic begins on Monday. Thanks

My recent study on tithe again shows that, In the Old Testament God asked from Israelites during the Pre-Church era to bring a certain amount, 10% (tithe) not from monetary substance though but from agricultural produce but in the New Testament, God that saved us through Christ never asked for a certain amount, he simply commanded us to give.

He gave us His Spirit through Christ and simply asked us to give without restricting us to a certain amount of 10%. He asked us to give freely, cheerfully, without grudges. Simply put, the law had changed from being a tither to a giver.

nasty45: dt stil go to agree wit my pt

And how can you give what you don't have? If he gave birth Christian, it means the seed of Christian is in Him. You cannot produce what you are not. Do you agree with that also? Yes or No?

nasty45: I get ur analogy,yet stil it doesnt portray Christ as a xtian.xtianity came into beign after Christ death.

Yes and so how can you call mango a seed? You cannot call Christ a Christian because He is a seed that brought forth Christians. Christianity is the "fruit" of the "seed" of Christ.

On the other hand, Christ is a Christian because the seed of mango is mango. Christianity or Christian is the seed of Christ. It's just a play on words.

New testament started in Acts 2. Hence Matthew 28 is Old in Context.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Matt 3:11 KJV

I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Mark 1:8 KJV

John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Luke 3:16 KJV


And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; Luke 3:3 KJV.

From the above scriptures, we understand there are two kinds of Baptism namely:

Baptism of John
Baptism of the one mightier than John, Christ.

The mode or method of John's baptism is water and the mode or method of Christ's baptism is "with the Holy Ghost and with fire". Jesus also instituted the baptism (water) that will put a believer, after repentance (baptism of John) into the body of Christ. Matt 28:19.

Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Matt 28:19

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6:3

Galatians 3:27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.


BAPTISM OF JOHN (BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE)

The baptism of John by water is clearly seen as a baptism of repentance. This is before Jesus came on the scene. The use of water by John is figurative or type of the "word of God". When we hear the word of God, it convince us of our sinful life and also cleanse or wash us of our sin or sinful nature. The baptism of John by water should not be confused to baptism of Jesus by water. The "water" by John is figurative of the word of God which bring us unto repentance while the baptism of "water" in the name of Jesus is being en-grafted into the body of Christ after we have heard the word of God. See how the word of God is figuratively used as water in the scriptures:

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, Eph 5:26 KJV. You can read other translations to see this verse clearer.

This is why someone cannot be baptized by water into the body of Christ when such person have not repented of their sin and converted by the word of God. The word of God does that work of repentance in our heart. Peter said in Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit".

Repentance must come first and this is what is being figuratively used by water by John the Baptist. It is a baptism of repentance. If it is not figurative, then consider this: Acts 19:1-7 KJV

And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve.

So we see clearly that the water baptism we do today is not that of John the baptist because it is done in the name of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Our baptism of John today by water is the word of God that brings us unto repentance, convincing us through the Holy Spirit. Our water baptism of today by immersion (see definition) is not done in the name of John but in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

You may ask, Jesus was also baptized by John. Does that mean Jesus needed repentance? No. The Jesus baptism by John is not unto repentance for Jesus but to fulfill all righteousness. Matt 3:13-15 KJV

nasty45: am a xtian,waitin 4 ur revelatn.n pls do tel me wen xtianity cm into being,ws it b4 xt or afta?

Ok. Because you are a Christian, then we can talk.

Christian is taken out of Christ. Every seed produce after its kind you know that. A mango cannot produce banana, You know that.

Now let me show you the revelation. I don't have much time cos I've got a lot to do today but I will stay with you for a while.

God wanted a nation, NOT Israel even though God had to start from Israel, so God first have a seed. It is only when a seed goes into the ground and die, that is when it produce fruit. Christ is the seed of the woman in Gen 3:15 KJV

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Christ is the seed of the woman. How? It wasn't the seed of Joseph that produced Christ otherwise, Christ would die and return to dust. Are you getting what am talking about? So as the seed of the woman and because unless a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. John 12:24 KJV.

Here in John 12:24, Christ was using a simile to express His death and Resurrection and what He would produce, and that he called the "fruit". The fruit that Christ produced is called after His seed. His seed is "Christ" that must die and produce after His kind "Christ-ain". We have Christian because Christ produced after His kind and we know a true Christian by the "fruit'. Gal 5:22-23 have a list of the fruit of the Spirit. Why fruit of the Spirit and not fruit of Christ? Because Christ had to die and what he left with us is the Spirit and also we are born by the Spirit.

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I would not have made a comment except for the highlighted heretical statement. Just because you want to market a product does not call for such heretical statement. I may sound too tough but am sorry, THE CHURCH OF GOD DO NOT GROW BY THIS TOOL OF YOURS AND THE CHURCH DO NOT EXPLODE AND FLOURISH BY THIS TOOL. IT MAY BE GOOD FOR ADMINISTRATIVE AND MANAGEMENT PURPOSES BUT CERTAINLY NOT FOR CHURCH GROWTH, EXPLOSION AND FLOURISH. The Church of God grows by:

Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:47 KJV.

And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith. Acts 6:7 KJV.

Meanwhile, the word of God continued to spread, and there were many new believers. Acts 12:24 NLT

@ Image123,

I will not take time to delve into your points one after the other. But what I will say is that, they are old testament. You know I don't just talk. The only person that made the best of it and probably killed this thread is PastorKun. The reason being the fact that, If you cultivate the habit of letting scripture explain scriptures, you will be the best student of the word of God.

Come back to the answer. The reason why the books are placed in the New testament is the fact that, Jesus is the Mediator of the New testament.

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. Heb 9:15 KJV

To prove to the world that Christ is come for the new testament he came to establish, He cannot come under same new testament, he had to come under an Old testament or covenant if you choose.

secondly, Those books are placed in the new because it has to show us about the testator and the process of enforcing the new after. However, they are not biographies of Jesus by Synoptic.

If you take the whole bible in context, you will see that they are Old testament but for the above reasons that introduces us to our testator, it was placed in the new. I hope I find more words to explain should we need to explain more.

I think the question we should begin to ask is, Is establishing versities part of Jesus' commission to his disciples or the Church? I can't just get any clue from the word of God to justify these guys establishing versities that are not even affordable to their own member they claim God sent them to, Seriously, I can't understand.

Can somebody help me out?

I don't intend to answer cos am not a religious person. Though Christianity is a kind of religion but different. It is not being christian as the religion aspect of it but being Christ-like or follower of Christ example. I share revelation from the word of God that proves there is God. I don't enjoy argument though cos to me, most times, it is time wasting cos it end it in unfruitful argument.

To your kweshion:

Logic Mind: How did you come to know everything you know about God?

I study (not read) the word of God and "reason" with God.

@ Psoter,

First are you a Christian? If not, You may not understand my revelation. Answer my question and I will show you a revelation based on this verse.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. John 12:24 KJV.

Am waiting for you.

logicboy: If God truly exists, can you explain why an omnipotent God will have Isrealites as his chosen people? Is that not racist? Why did God only talk to people in the middle east in the Old testament? Why was West Africa neglected until the 16th century? over 1,500 years since the death of Christ?

The only reason I had to comment is the fact you made the above highlighted statement. You need to be rooted in the word of God to know what God did and why he did it. God wanted a nation, NOT geo-political one though but he had to first create a geo-polical one and out of such, he created His own nation. Israel is NO more the chosen People of God. It used to be before Christ came. After Christ came, He came to established the true chosen people which are the believers, Christians and the Church of Jesus (Remember the church is not the building). Our kingdom is NOT geo-political. I have been telling people recently and I will tell you also, That God had moved but many people are still standing instead of moving with God.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 1 Peter 2:9 KJV

To prove that Israel is NO more the chosen nation or people but the believers of Christ called Christians, the church as the body of Christ, Let see who are the people Peter was writing to, 1 Peter 1:1-2 KJV

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I can go on and on to show you from the word of God that God is NOT Racist. Israel is NOT the mind of God when began but the Church is the mind of God but God had to go through the nation of Israel. If you don't believe in God, that is a different thing as I dont argue with Atheists because it's a waste of time to me and my time is precious. I hope this helps. Thank you.