₦airaland Forum

amor4ce:
What I've observed in our society today is that many seem to judge their neighbours rather than their actions. Whereas God hates sin but does not take pleasure in the death of a sinner.

Even we such sins are judged or condemned, some people misunderstand it as judging the person. In my own understanding, you cannot seperate one from the other. It is the personality that commits the sin and the sin didnt commit itself. People do wrong things and want to hide under scripture for not being judge whereas, we as christians are suppose to know better. Evil is evil, no matter who is involved.

@ joagbaje,

You agree to judging righteously right? Am sure Yes. I will like you to explain to everyone here what you understand by righteous judging. Remember, your answer should be explained by bible verse, not your own words because when we teach biblical issues, scriptures must explain scriptures by itself. The bible is written to Christians about christians and it is not a hidden or secret book, it is open for all to read. Maybe you know better than Apostle Paul that rebuke Peter openly etc.

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

^^^ I personally do not like to mention names of preachers who charge money to come preach but the truth remains, you cannot deny the fact about this my brother. It is happening among us christians.

I cannot give answer more than my understanding. My understanding is, God is a Spirit and they that worship must worship in spirit and in truth. Spirit and Ghost usage in the bible differs. God is a Spirit as said, I am not talking about evil spirit anyway. My God is GOOD.

^^^ Did you read the article? Many of my articles here supports giving. As you said, giving is the nature of God and there not question about that and giving as described in the bible must be done willingly, cheerfully and without grudges. What we are talking about is fleecing God's people in fraudulent ways using ungodly/biblical items or means.

Many today believe that it is wrong to expose error and to name names. Those who are faithful in exposing error and false teachers/prophets according to the Bible are now being widely denounced and are accused of being unloving and unkind. In this article I intend to present the teaching of the Bible on this vital subject. I have found out that discussing falsehood and false teachings with those who disagree is the best way to reveal truth. Somebody will certainly learn something! Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and He didn't leave us with falsehood.

One of the most misused verses in the Bible is, "Judge not, that ye be not judged" (Matt. 7: 1).

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

v2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

v3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

v4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

v5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

It is utter hypocracy to say "Don't judge me, because judging is wrong." Obviously, the one who says that is judging the other person, too. Every Scripture verse should be read in its context, if we are to properly understand the true meaning. In vs. 2-5 of this same chapter it is evident that v. 1 is referring to hypocritical judgment. A brother who has a beam in his own eye should not be judging the brother who may have a mote in his eye. The lesson is plain, you cannot judge another for his sin if you are guilty of the same sin.

The oft-quoted passage about not judging applies to hypocrites, not the righteous. When we know truth, we are commanded to judge and help the other to see more clearly. Therefore, most certainly, the Bible does not teach us that "judging is wrong". And we ought to judge, try, and test to see whether other people are false prophets or not. This is important because many are afraid to judge, but we are commanded to judge and "try the spirits".

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Those who cling to "Judge not, that ye be not judged, " to condemn those who expose error should read the entire chapter. Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, " (v. 15). How can we know false prophets unless we judge them by the Word of God? If we know the false prophets, how can we fail to exam the sheep of these "ravening wolves?" All through the Bible we find proof that they should be identified and exposed.

Again, another misused bible verse often used to justify not following the commands to judge is Romans 14:4

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

This does not say that "judging is wrong", rather it says that we are unable and unqualified to judge certain things (and this has no application whatsoever to judging false prophecy and trying the spirits, which we are commanded to judge). Romans14:4 applies to "doubtful disputations", see Romans 14:1, it says: Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.

In context of the whole chapter, Christians have freedom do act according to our conscience, as led by the Holy Spirit, and this is supported elsewhere as well. Ephesians 4 and 1 Corinthians 12 make it clear that not all Christians are given gifts to do each kind of work, and we are not to judge whether someone should be a preacher, or evangelist, or teacher, or healer, or exercise some other gift for the body of Christ.

Many people erroneously thinks that someone who is rebuking or exposing another does so only out of hate, as they misidentify those who do the rebuking as having a spirit of hate. However, the Bible is clear that to avoid rebuking is to avoid loving, and that those who love will rebuke.

Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in exposing falsehood, calling names which i don't personally do anyway, there is nothing also wrong in publicly exposing false teachers and their falsehood. This has nothing to do with judge not as being misused and taken out of context.

THANK Y'ALL AND GOD BLESS.

@ joagbaje,

We ought to judge, try, and test to see whether other people that call themselves Christians are false prophets or not. This is important because many are afraid to judge, but we are commanded to judge and "try the spirits". Christians are permitted to judge ourselves in the faith but not people who have not come to knowledge of Christ.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

The oft-quoted passage about not judging applies to hypocrites, not the righteous.  When we know the truth, we are commanded to judge and help the other to see more clearly.

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

v2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

v3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

v4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

v5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

It is utter hypocracy to say "Don't judge me, because judging is wrong."  Obviously, the one who says that is judging the other person, too.  In the context of Matthew 7, Jesus wasn't saying we shouldn't judge but rather, when we cannot judge will guilty of same sin as the personal we tends to judge. Therefore, most certainly, the Bible does not teach us that "judging is wrong".  

Romans 14 is also often used to justify not following the commands to judge.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

This is the same bible verse that is often quote to defend evils done by some Christians and falsehood in the body of Christ. This does not say that "judging is wrong", rather it says that we are unable and unqualified to judge certain things (and this has no application and connection whatsoever to judging false prophecy, prophets and teachers and trying the spirits, which we are commanded to judge).  Romans 14:4 applies to "doubtful disputations", see Romans 14:1, it says: Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.  

In context of the whole chapter, Christians have freedom do act according to our conscience, as led by the Holy Spirit, and this is supported elsewhere as well.  Ephesians 4 and 1 Corinthians 12 make it clear that not all Christians are given gifts to do each kind of work, and we are not to judge whether someone should be a preacher, or evangelist, or teacher, or healer, or exercise some other gift for the body of Christ.

Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Hence, we should be able to discern between good and evil, and able to identify false prophets, their falsehood and teachings, trying the spirits, giving reasons for our hope, showing our brothers how to cast the mote out of their eyes, judging righteous judgment.

@ Joagbaje,

Joagbaje:
Let's discuss it here

Motives play a major role  in judgement . If not you will judge in error. Because what you're condemning may be based on truth. There are different revelations . It's only God who. Can judge in some matters.

I just told you that we can judge as the word of God is the mirror that exposes the intentions and motives of man. Heb 4:12. There is not revelation that negates the biblical truth of God's word. Also, it is not only God that can judge. Christians can judge ourselves in the mirror of the word of God and I will proof it from the bible in my next response.

Joagbaje:
Has it ever worked? It's against the principle of the bible. You cant ridicle the body of christ  openly and expect positive response.  If you're really open ,let's discuss it biblically

Am very much open my dear brother. I will handle all of this issues in my article, "Judge not" very soon. But for the purpose of this discussion i will talk a little about it. Isn't the body of Christ suppose to know better than the world? Are we not the living epistles that people of the world reads? How then do we condole falsehood and expect to get better results?

Joagbaje:
I will like you to be objective enough also to assess yourself ,by asking supposing I'm wrong"

I'm not just picking a verse. If you feel I'm wrong, please prove it with scriptures.

Why would I want to defend false hood . I don't even believe in many of the things they practice. But that doesn't mean they are wrong. You must know peoples motive to judge . That's even of you must judge anybody. People have different revelations from the word of God. Why will you condemn?

Ok, you are not just picking a verse to defend falsehood. I will bring it up on another thread i will be doing soon on the subject of "Judge not", stay alert.

Why do you need to know people motive before you speak against falsehood? Don't you know the word of God is the mirror through which we know people's mind and motives?

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Heb 4:12 (NIV)

Any revelation that anybody claims to have that opposes or negates the foundation of the truth is called another gospel.

Joagbaje:
Rather , some are turned from the living God by the vicious attack , so called christian critics are doing to his body.

On the contrary, they are encouraged that there are still few people out there who stand for the truth. When the people that has been deceived gets true, revelation they run away from falsehood to the truth.

Another one just popped up in my heart. The successful and famous charlatans often charge or demand certain money to come preach the gospel when or if invited. Imagine a pastor charging 500,000.00 to 1,000,000.00 to preach the gospel. They will name their price as a result of special anointing on them as they also promised to draw crowds.

Am adding more to the flock fleecing ministry now. Sowing numeric seed offerings like quoting some biblical number. For example, they tell you to sow a 7 X 7=49 offerings. 7 is the number of perfection and you will have 7 days unprecedented increase. They can use different numeric connections and spiritualize it to fleece flocks.

REAL TRUTH:
@Goshen,,my conclusion for now is that I do not believe in well over 90% of Nigerian Pastors,,,its at a point where if you tell me you re a pastor,,I run real fast away from you,,,,especially the pentecostal ones,,,,,Thanks am gonna search you right away on facebook,,,take care and God bless you!!!!

Yours is not new. Yours is one of the things prophesied as in, many will be turned away from the living God by the acts of these false teachers and this is why the wind is blowing all across the globe. Many shepherd had been fired already but God still keep them working because of His children.

ALWAYS REMEMBER THIS, GOD IS THE ONLY BOSS THAT WILL FIRE YOU BUT WILL STILL KEEP YOU WORKING JUST FOR THE SAKE OF HIS PEOPLE.

@ everyone who is standing falsehood and encourages fighting good faith of faith namely; Pastor Kun, OLAADEGBU, numo86, dekung, dare2think, REAL TRUTH, debrief08 (hope you have recovered from laughing,lol), I SAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL. With many Christians being enlightened and biblically grounded in the word of God, BUSINESS WILL NEVER BE AS USUAL FOR THESE FALSE TEACHERS.

We pray for brother Joagbaje to see himself in the undiluted word of God. Something in me tells me something about him and I will email him accordingly.

REAL TRUTH:
@ Goshen,,How can we form a group on facebook to pass this and other messages in order to liberate people from the chains shackles and grip of these charlatans,,,,,,you need to be a victim of these charlatans to know hw devastating their activities are,,,,

Well, am open and available to children of God. You can always add my email on facebook. Mine is goshen360@yahoo.co.uk. You just got it right there.

dare2think is very correct on his response. You don't have to be a victim to know all these things. Give time to study deep the word of God. I have been following them from afar off and I have come to master most, if not all of their gimmicks. I am not and will never be a victim of this falsehood. As a matter of fact, at the fullness of time, God is sending me to raise the standard of truth again. I watch these falsehood on TV and sometimes, feel like weeping and actually, i weep in my heart.

Joagbaje:
There are three levels of salvation. Spirit , soul and body . A man that has received Jesus as savior is saved in his sprit. Such a man may not be saved in his soul . That is where carnality,gossip and other evil vices dwell. Until the word of God save his soul.

Oga Joagbaje, na wha for you o. Three kinds of Salvation? Seriously! Well, lets not go there. We save that for another time or day.

numo86:
lol, goshen u don craze finish,
How did u settle down to think & write all these??, its like u don study this whole thing finish,
You are right with ur observations,but just pity these pastors them small,

Well, I no craze my brother. It's just that i am soaked and drunk in the word of God. The truth is, we have a foundation that had already being established by the Jesus and early Apostles and we cannot built anything on such other than the truth. I have always being an observant person and deeply study the bible. I often jot most of this points down in my study book and to come up with it in a time like this.

@ Joagbaje,

I himbly say you need to re-assess yourself. Whatever, I do here on this forum is based on personal conviction and biblical truth. You cannot pick just a bible verse and sit on it. Besides, many of the verses you quote to defend falsehood is actually not accurate. I will do a thread very soon, if not today on "Judge not that you be not judge" and quote most of the same bible verses you often quote to be in support of these false teachers. PLEASE, DON'T BE JUST FOLLWER OF A PASTOR BUT FOLLOW A PASTOR AS LONG AS HE FOLLOWS CHRIST.

Good morning my people in the Lord. It's a beautiful and chilling morning here in the states. I will attempt to respond to everyone's comment accordingly and we can keep learning.

Make no mistake. Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost is one but usage is different. Before Christ came and died, Spirit was used and Ghost was used after Christ. From my bible understanding, Holy Ghost is the right word to used in this Christian age.

I can't stop laughing my sister. If na this kind prayer mfm dey really pray, am sorry to call them Christians.

^^^ Why do you hide under "Judge not" to cover false prophets? and how do you call shepherds who fleece the flocks? Do you have another name for them?

They showed the lady's clip before she was healed. How did they video her before she was healed? Did they know she was going to be healed? Can you answer this question?

^^^ Feel free to add yours to the flock fleecing ministry, should I miss out something.

Firstly and most importantly, they establish themselves as a special “Anointed” spokesperson for God.

They persuade people that they are giving them a special secret, hidden knowledge that others do not have as people would rather hear from a prophet than to hear from God through study of His word. They discourage the flock from reading the Bible for themselves. They remind the flock often of how the Holy Spirit spoke to them and this reduces the need for study of the Bible because they claim to have knowledge that supercedes the Bible. They often inject a verse here and there so the flock will be convinced that this is from God. They choose obscure, unrelated and out of context verses so the flock doesn’t realize that they have nothing to do with what they are saying. They always use the King James Version because most people nowadays don't understand it and they can use it to make verses say whatever they want.

They establish themselves as a prophet from God by making a few predictions. It does not matter if the predictions don’t come to pass because they can always claim it was flock’s lack of faith as to why it did not come to pass. The secret to being successful is always to shift the blame back onto the flock, when in a tight spot. They never accept responsibility for the lack of failed prophesies as this will taint their image and hinder the pursuit of fleecing the flock for profit. They also keep the flocks from any passages in the Bible that says a prophet must have 100% accuracy such as Deuteronomy 18.

If anyone challenges them as a prophet of God, they remind such people of the verse that says “touch not the anointed of God” and of the consequences of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit because the flock doesn’t know neither of these bible passages has anything to do with them or the situation. It is essential that they use fear as often as possible to make sure the flock maintains fear for them. Fear is a great tool to use that will enable them to continue to fleece the flock.

Emotionalism is essential for flock-fleecing ministry. They mimic the most successful fleecers and practice this often. Tears and a lot of mopping of sweat from the forehead and mouth while preaching happens a lot while under the “anointing” and this assures the flock that they are receiving an “anointed” message. They dance a lot and say “Whoooeeee, I feel the anointing comin’ upon me, , GLORY.” They are certain to make odd noises at times and call them speaking in tongues from the Spirit. This is highly impressive and will ensure the flock’s awe of them.

Gimmicks are essential: For a ministry to thrive, money must regularly be fleeced from the flock. They don’t take all of the money at once because it would drain the well dry, and they are careful to spread it out over a very long time in order to raise your own income. Their gimmicks work well; they have been tried and tested. However, when the gimmicks begin to wane, they use a little imagination to keep it fresh and exciting.

Anointed prayer clothes, mantles and trinkets from or not from holy land. This one has been a big hit and a great success. This fleece does not work well with the older sheep but there are many new sheep who still find this to be exciting. They can have a variety of anointed clothes, mantles and trinkets that keep them going for quite awhile. Clothes, mantles and trinkets can be for healing, wealth, and power. The possibilities are almost limitless with a fertile imagination. The profit margin can be very large because the clothes, mantles and trinkets are cheap to buy and they can sell to the flock for a good deal more than they are worth because of the pastor’s special “anointing” on the items.

Praying over letters, e-mails, prayer request and photographs. This is another great way to bring in the income. They have the flock send in prayer requests in letter form etc and they can set the price for praying over them, sometimes with the promise of travelling to holy land with such letters, e-mails, prayer request and photographs to fast and pray. How much they charge depends upon how well they have convinced the sheep of their anointing. They often repeated this practice by reading some fake testimonies of other beneficiaries of such anointed items in order to make it sound like there is some magical ingredient in their holy land trip attachment and puts it on the same level as holy water, incense, burning of candles and wearing the cross that protects the believing flock. Hence these previous items can also be sold for profit, if they are “anointed”. They ask the flocks to join their prayer closet partners by registering their names and also with seed offerings of specific amounts as faith seed that will be sown monthly for a very long period of time.

The electronic age is wonderful and one must not neglect this means of income and recognition. They can convince the flock that God is ever present everywhere and this includes the internet. They have the demon-possessed or the sick place their hands or forehead on the screen and convince them that God is touching them through the monitor. They have their website designed attractively and post a picture of them and their spouse that reaches out their hands to the flock. This will convince the flock that they are really reaching out to pray for them. They state that the prayers will only come to pass if the flocks send some money. Again, their reputation will determine how much they set the price at for these prayers. The power of suggestion works well; hypnotists have used this principle for many years. All that is needed is for the prospective customer to be convinced in their mind that the “anointing” is flowing through to them upon contact with the monitor screen. They can then request additional “donations” for further anointed touches.

The more arrogant they are, the more "anointed" they will appear to the flocks.

Seed faith. This term indicates that flocks are planting a seed of faith and will reap a harvest of money because of it. Using this idea, they can get people to send them large amounts of money with the promise that the flocks will receive a hundredfold back. People are greedy by nature and the lure of a promise of receiving thousands of dollars back is a powerful enticement. But they make certain to keep the flock from seeing Mark 10:29-30 because they don't want to give them any hint that persecutions might also come their way. Obviously, if the flocks are not willing to send this type of "love/seed offering" then they do not have enough "faith" to plant.

Remember that the corrupt nature of man is to seek after fame and fortune for themselves at the exclusion of others. They always assure the flock of a following them as long as they continue to offer them the possibility of riches and power. They continue to appeal to the corrupt nature of man and spiritualize it by suggesting that the things they desire are the same things that God desires for them. Often repeat the phrases such as: “God desires for you to be rich, healthy and happy above everything else.” They avoid telling the flock that spiritual maturity is more important in God’s eyes than financial success.

Lastly, if they have those who start feeling like they want to leave, they make a quick move to use fear and guilt to keep them in their flock. One tactic that is very effective is to threaten them with loss of their salvation if they leave. Also, they threaten the flock’s children by saying that if they leave; their children will pay for their lack of faith. This is a good way of keeping them in line since most of them love their children very much.

In conclusion, this article is free. However, a “love offering” would be greatly appreciated. Sending a “love offering” of 100 dollars would put you well on the way because you know that your "seed faith" will force God to give you a hundred fold in return for doing so.

garyarnold:
That comment, by itself, shows that tpia hasn't bothered to read this entire thread. ALL OF US against the FALSE TEACHING of tithing BELIEVE IN GIVING.

Our focus is NOT money. It's FALSE TEACHING.

Tpia has it backwards. It is tithing-teaching pastors who whine amount money. If they had a little faith, they would know that God will provide for His Church. But when pastors lack that faith, they instead turn to teaching lies. I have yet to belong to a local church where the pastor wasn't constantly whining about money.

God bless you greatly. I have decided to stop responding to tpia because i see him completely off the line. Can you kindly send me email so we can be in touch, I also reside in the States. mine is goshen360@yahoo.co.uk. God bless you.

What a great message with powerful and challenging words. Tears in my heart again. Help me Lord Jesus.

@ BERNIMOORE,

Dont mind tpia, that's his way. He did same thing on one of my post where I exposed falsehood of "touch not my anointed" being used out of context.

This is my story:

I was the worst guy in my secondary school days. I committed many wickedness such as, me and my friends share same girl(s) and have them in same bed. I often steal people's fowl and kill them in the middle of the night before dawn and hide it somewhere. I often beat my uncle's wife with cutlass and would destroy all her belongings. These and many more i used to do until that faithful day in 1996 that I met the Lord as the Lord arrested my heart and i was convicted by the power of the Holy Spirit. This happened in a youth night vigil programme. I became a completely different man and began to share the gospel to my friends as they can see a new man in me. My Salvation experience happened in Lagos, Nigeria in a Pentecostal church at Agboju-Amuwo along Old Ojo Road.

God bless you.

@ Pastor Kun,

Pls send me email. See my email above. Thanks