₦airaland Forum

Nachmonides:
It's difficult (not impossible) to comprehend the idea of the trinity.

Absolutely correct.

Humans can only understand what they can relate with by experience. God is nothing like what we have ever experienced as humans, so understanding God can be difficult but not impossible. Another problem arises when you come to understand a little about God - you don't have the accurate human vocabulary or grammar to describe Him.

DaddyCoool:
All these long theses and epistles!
Christ simply said He did not know the time, that only the Father knew. Elsewhere He said He only said what the Father TAUGHT him. He never said He already knew everything the Father knew but decided not to know so that the Father would then teach Him!

He knows Everything in the Father and not in Himself.

gohf:
The Greek eimi means I exist and can also be used to mean I was. So you are wrong

All translations, translated it "I am", so you're wrong.

DaddyCoool:
#bolded, WRONG! I corrected you first - before Steep even posted anything on this thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/8308121/ot-verse-strongly-proves-jesus#133568561

Okay, I appreciate your correction.

gohf:
so Jesus is not fully God but a partial some knowing God?

Even when all revelation has been given to him and through him!

The Trinity is fully God in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit because they're always together. They're One.

gohf:
Whether is it Olam or qedem, whether you take it as everlasting or ancient times

My question for you, so Jesus is God because he came from ancient times and from everlasting.

So is the devil also god or he didn't come from ancient times?

Why are you treating Jesus coming from everlasting like it's something different from Jesus coming from God? Where in micah 5 was Jesus referred to as God?

No use story answer me please

The devil had a beginning. He didn't come from everlasting. It's he Bible that said Jesus came from Everlasting. Not me.

DaddyCoool:
What else do you want Him to clarify?
He just explicitly told you, without mincing words, that He did NOT know everything

In Acts 1:7, He clarified but you ignored and decided to maintain your faulty stand. Is that right?

You thought He didn't know everything but after He's clarification, you could see He knows everything as the Father. He is the Word of God and the Wisdom of God, how can He not know? You're mixing clearly defined roles and responsibilities with ability.

DaddyCoool:
Na wa for you o.
What have we been discussing all this time??

Matthew 24:36 New International Version (NIV)
"But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only"

No matter semantic tricks you try, you can't read that and still honestly say the Son was all-knowing at that point. Simple

After He said that, did He clarify the reason?

DaddyCoool:
Meaning?
Christ said simply that he didn't know the date of the second comming, NOT that he could know but chose not to. If he wanted to say that he would have - there was no limit on the number of words he could use!

Quote the scriptures where He said He didn't know.

DaddyCoool:
Ok, since the father is in him when he was crucified was the Father also crucified? Was the Father not in heaven?

Do you want to contrast something physical with something abstract?

DaddyCoool:
Semantics. If someone doesn't know something, he doesn't know it - regardless of whether it is ability or responsibility. If you then go ahead to say the person knows everything, you're being economical with the truth

I disagree with you.

It all lies in whether the person can know it but decides not to know it because as a matter of rule, that knowledge is the responsibility of someone else.

This means the person is not limited by ability. You can't start casting aspersions on Him as being limited in ability just because He decides to abide by the rules of the game.

Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in him. Hence, how is He limited in knowledge?

DaddyCoool:
I think this is clever semantics. I think the simple and honest thing to say is that AT THE POINT Christ was saying he did not know everything, he indeed did not know everything.

Where are the semantics?

Did He not clearly say that the Father has this particular issue in His Power? In His Authority?

Except you're viewing God as humans. That's the only reason you may not understand these concepts.

The knowledge of something can be compartmentalized as far as God is concerned .

Jesus clearly said the Father has that issue in His power - that is within His defined roles as Father. He didn't say the Father knows because only the Father can know. That would then mean Christ cannot know. Christ can know but it's not His responsibility to know. It's the Father's.

DaddyCoool:
I don't think so. Just as the Father can do anything but cannot be the Son - yet God can do anything

No.

We're not talking in terms of ability but responsibility.

Knowing all things is ability. Being the sole knower of a particular matter is responsibility and not ability.

God knows all things but the knowledge of the second coming is the Father's responsibility, not ability.

DaddyCoool:
??

Trinity is singular BTW. See below

Yeah, you are correct. Pardon my English.

DaddyCoool:
Isn't it easier and more honest to say that Christ is God but doesn't know everything?

Where is the honesty in saying that? Would that not be a lie?

Janosky:
Oga, what is the Hebrew meaning of "origin" in the Hebrew text of Micah 5:2?

Did Meta A.I write the Hebrew text of Micah 5:2?

Definitely not.

Oga continue deceiving yourself.

This is the word again translated from Google Translate. Screenshot attached.

Janosky:
Oga read the screenshot evidence of complete Jewish bible and stop LYING to yourself.

They know their native Hebrew language more than your Trinitarian mentors twisting Micah 5:2.

"whose origin/beginning is from ancient times/long ago/ the days of yore"
Micah 7:20 and Psalm 143:5 "days of long ago" (@ Micah 5:2 doesn't not mean 'everlasting.'

Oga stop deceiving yourself.

Do I need to be arguing with you?

Look at the screenshot below and see the real meaning of the Hebrew Word "Owlams" that was translated "Everlasting". That word does not mean Ancient times. The Jews translated it that way because they cannot come to terms with the fact that the Messiah who will be born of a woman is God. It's a deceptive translation at best. Just as the deception of the Jehovah Witnesses.

GothamCities:
Yes, you're right.

But then, the Trinity have distinct roles. The timing of the second coming is solely the Father's responsibility.

This brings us to a better understanding of what Jesus said in Acts 1:7. Honestly, I have struggled to understand that verse until tonight.

When the disciples were asking the Lord Jesus about the timing of His second coming, He answered them in Acts 1:7 which states:

"It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."

The right thing Jesus was supposed to say is "...the time and the seasons which only the Father knows." If He had said that, it would have put a question on His omniscience. But He said the Father puts that in His power. I actually didn't understand the putting in His power phrase until tonight after reading the response from my brother Nachmonides.

Now, I understand that Jesus is speaking to His disciples here, telling them that it's not their responsibility to know the timing of the future event, - the restoration of the kingdom to Israel which happens only during the second coming. He emphasized that God the Father has reserved the right to determine the timing of the event, and it's not for humans to know or speculate about the exact timing.

This further proves that it's not a matter of Christ not being all knowing but a matter of understanding the individual roles in the Trinity.

DaddyCoool.

Janosky:
Is that what the Hebrew text of Micah 5:2 said?

Which Hebrew man read Micah 5,:2 and came to the Trinitarian misinterpretation of that verse?

Meta A.I is not the Hebrew language text.
Just continue TWISTING the holy scriptures

Are you pretending not to see the Hebrew interlinear attached?

Satan's witness, your deception can't work here.

Nachmonides:
As a matter of fact, you are correct.
It's to the glory of God that the eyes of our understanding be enlightened as the Apostle Paul wrote. I am happy that you see it clearly.


Yes, it's not a matter of Jesus not being all knowing.


The book of Matthew itself was written primarily to a Jewish audience, it employs a lot of Jewish culture and traditions that upon reading would be clear immediately to a Jewish reader.

Gbam!

The bolded really nailed it.

DaddyCoool:
Well, the Bible says He was fully God. See below.
"Fully God" implies "fully all-knowing". No?

Yes, you're right.

But then, the Trinity has distinct roles. The timing of the second coming is solely the Father's responsibility.

Steep:
na, Jesus was fully man and fully God. He was/is not a partial God and partial man.

You're right.

Thanks for the correction.

Nachmonides:
That's an interesting scripture you have put there.



Matthew 24:36, where Jesus says, "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only," has profound parallels with the customs of a Jewish marriage in Jesus' time. These customs offer a rich metaphor for understanding the relationship between Christ and His Church and the timing of His second coming.

1. The Betrothal (Kiddushin)

In Jewish tradition, a marriage began with a betrothal, a formal agreement that legally bound the bride and groom. During this time:

The groom would offer a bride price (a valuable gift) as a symbol of his commitment.

The bride would accept and prepare herself for the wedding.


Parallels:

Jesus, the bridegroom, offered His life as the bride price for the Church (Ephesians 5:25).

The Church, as the bride, prepares herself for His return through faith, obedience, and readiness (Revelation 19:7-8 ).

2. The Groom’s Departure to Prepare a Place

After the betrothal, the groom would leave the bride's home to return to his father’s house. There, he would prepare a place for the couple to live, often by adding a room to his father’s house.

The groom’s return date was not fixed and depended on the father's approval of the preparations.

Only the father could give the final approval for when the groom could retrieve his bride.


Parallels:

Jesus told His disciples He was going to prepare a place for them in His Father’s house (John 14:2-3).

The Father determines the timing of Christ’s return to gather His bride, the Church, reflecting the Jewish custom.

3. The Bride’s Preparation

While the groom prepared the home, the bride had to remain vigilant and ready because she did not know the exact time of the groom’s return.

She would keep her lamp filled with oil and prepare her wedding garments.

The groom often came unexpectedly, usually at night, preceded by a shout to announce his arrival.


Parallels:

Jesus warned His followers to stay alert and prepared for His return, likened to the arrival of a bridegroom (Matthew 25:1-13).

The oil in the lamps of the wise virgins represents readiness and spiritual preparation.

4. The Wedding Feast (Nissuin)

When the father deemed the time right, the groom would return to the bride’s house with a procession of friends to bring her to his home.

The wedding culminated in a grand feast lasting several days.


Parallels:

The second coming of Christ will be the moment when He gathers His Church to Himself, likened to the bride being taken to the groom’s house.

The heavenly marriage supper of the Lamb is the ultimate celebration of this union (Revelation 19:9).


5. "No One Knows the Day or Hour"

The phrase, "only the Father knows," resonates directly with the Jewish wedding custom where the timing of the groom’s return was solely the father’s decision. This emphasizes:

The sovereignty of the Father in determining the appointed time.

The element of anticipation and readiness, as the bride and her household did not know the exact time.

Jesus used imagery familiar to His audience, likening His return to a Jewish wedding. The phrase “only the Father knows” aligns with the father’s role in Jewish weddings, highlighting the mystery and anticipation of the second coming. This analogy deepens the understanding of Jesus’ relationship with His Church and the call for believers to remain prepared and vigilant for His return.

Wow!

This shows that many of Christ's statements which confuse many readers could actually be understood if one has a good knowledge of Jewish customs! Since Jesus tailored His teachings to His audience.

From your inputs, it means Jesus' answer regarding the timing of His second coming is not a matter of Him not being all knowing but a matter of individual specializations within the Trinity. The timing of the Son's coming is the Father's responsibility. Not the Son's. It is the Father's sole prerogative.

1 Corinthians 12 tells us that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost have different responsibilities as they work together for a common goal.

Thanks very much for this input. It is an eye opener regarding that statement of Jesus.

Even when Jesus said in John 8:58, "Before Abraham was, I am" The statement cannot be attributed to someone who had a begining.

The correct statement for a man to make even if such a man had existed before Abraham is "Before Abraham was, I was ."

But Jesus didn't say, He was. He said 'He is ' "Before Abraham was, I am". Meaning I have always being. I've always been existing before Abraham. I have no beginning. I am. There's no time in which I have not existed. I have always existed. I am. Not, "I was."

DaddyCoool:
God is also all-knowing.
Please explain:
"But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only"

Does that negate the fact that the Messiah is from everlasting? No!

Jesus was not fully God in the days of His flesh. Neither was He fully man.

Modified

Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man. My statement above was in error but I appreciate my brother, Steep for correcting me.

However, to answer the question of why Christ didn't know the time of His coming, it is not a matter of Christ not being all knowing but a matter of respecting the separate responsibilities of the Father and Son. The matter of the timing is exclusively the Father's responsibility.

This OT Verse Strongly Proves that Jesus is God! - All Doubts Cleared

The verse is Micah 5:2:

"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

The verse above clearly prophesies about the Messiah, Jesus Christ and clearly states that His going forth is from EVERLASTING. That is to say, He is from eternity past. He has no beginning. Some translations translated the word 'owlams' as ancient times instead of Everlasting. However, META AI clarifies that the term 'Ancient Times" as used by some translators shouldn't be seen as a time calculated within the time of earth but that it means that Christ had been existing before time was created. I have attached a screenshot from Meta AI for your perusal.

I have also attached a screenshot from the original Hebrew Interlinear rendering of the verse. The Hebrew word OWLAMS actually means Everlasting. Jesus is from Everlasting. From eternity past. He had no beginning. The only person who has no beginning is God. Hence if Both God and the Messiah have no beginning, then God is the one who manifested Himself as the Messiah. This will make you understand why Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am" - John 8:58.

No matter the scripture you may want to quote as a Jehovah Witness or as any other worshipper of some false gods, it does not negate the fact that Jesus was from Everlasting as stated in this scripture. Jesus is not Angel Michael. Jehovah Witnesses are peddlers of demonic doctrines. This verse further establishes the truth about the Trinity.

If you have not embraced Jesus, I admonish you to come to Jesus today. Do not listen to the lies of satan. Religion cannot save you. Only God can save you by Himself. And this God is He who manifested Himself to man through Jesus Christ the Savior. His hands are stretched forth today, "No one gets unto the Father except through Him" John 14:6. And be rest assured, anyone that comes to Him, He will in no wise cast out. John 6:37.

No one can save you from God's wrath which is coming upon this sinful world. Only God can, and He will do it through Jesus - the One who is from Everlasting to Everlasting.

The verse is Micah 5:2:

"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

The verse above clearly prophesies about the Messiah, Jesus Christ and clearly states that His going forth is from EVERLASTING. That is to say, He is from eternity past. He has no beginning. Some translations translated the word 'owlams' as ancient times instead of Everlasting. However, META AI clarifies that the term 'Ancient Times" as used by some translators shouldn't be seen as a time calculated within the time of earth but that it means that Christ had been existing before time was created. I have attached a screenshot from Meta AI for your perusal.

I have also attached a screenshot from the original Hebrew Interlinear rendering of the verse. The Hebrew word OWLAMS actually means Everlasting. Jesus is from Everlasting. From eternity past. He had no beginning. The only person who has no beginning is God. Hence if Both God and the Messiah have no beginning, then God is the one who manifested Himself as the Messiah. This will make you understand why Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am" - John 8:58.

No matter the scripture you may want to quote as a Jehovah Witness or as any other worshipper of some false gods, it does not negate the fact that Jesus was from Everlasting as stated in this scripture. Jesus is not Angel Michael. Jehovah Witnesses are peddlers of demonic doctrines. This verse further establishes the truth about the Trinity.

If you have not embraced Jesus, I admonish you to come to Jesus today. Do not listen to the lies of satan. Religion cannot save you. Only God can save you by Himself. And this God is He who manifested Himself to man through Jesus Christ the Savior. His hands are stretched forth today, "No one gets unto the Father except through Him" John 14:6. And be rest assured, anyone that comes to Him, He will in no wise cast out. John 6:37.

No one can save you from God's wrath which is coming upon this sinful world. Only God can, and He will do it through Jesus - the One who is from Everlasting to Everlasting.

fineboynl:
you are not going to lose the sim. Just use it for receiving calls.

Okay.

fineboynl:
yes na. If it’s temporary visit it’s shouldn’t bother you. Except you want to stay there fully. Besides it’s just a double rate as both state is involved. Not as high as international roaming.

That means, I could lose the contacts of all customers and friends I have gathered over the years just for moving to another state. It's scary.

fineboynl:
..nigeria was not way structured and it was caused by obj.

When i was in india. Every state have their own sim network. It was well so organized. If you carry your Mumbai sim to New Delhi. Your phone will enter roaming. Meaning your phone bill will be higher until you return back to Mumbai otherwise you get a new sim there. And any card you purchase will be that from New Delhi. The recharge card doesn’t work for another state sim.


Similar thing with cable tv

Then other state can force any company to open branches in there state if they most allow theirs product. Manufacturing companies knows where their markets is and will comply if it worth it.

But this system will be very problematic as you will have to be changing your phone numbers every time you move except you want to be paying higher bills.

malali:
Show me one video with Audio with the rebels saying with their own mouth, that jerusalem is next.....lol
You have to learn to see evidence for yourself, dont belief propaganda from left and right.

If a man stabs his neighbor to death, because he said he overheard him saying, he plans to poison him.
Its still murder. Thats what Israel is doing.

They're bombing weapon stores and military installations. No murder was committed.

SalamRushdie:
It was always about stealing more land for the greater Isreal

Not true!

The Rebels invited trouble when they announced that Jerusalem is next. Israel won't wait for them to strengthen themselves. This is the best time for them to do whatever they want to do. If Jerusalem is next, then, let them start now.