₦airaland Forum

LastProphet:
There are situations where you must come to compromise with others and with standards, you CANNOT BE ABOUT YOUR RELIGION IN ALL SITUATIONS. There are situations where one's religion isnt required ESPECIALLY A MULTI-RELIGIOUS SITUATION! If all the religions bring their preferences to the table there will be no society, there will be no government systems, there will be no uniforms! Have you asked yourself why uniform dressings were made in the first place? They are made according to the requirements of the job or situation and if you find such uniform distasteful then why go there in the first place? This is the same thing your beloved muslims are doing in Europe, they come to someone's country and REFUSE TO INTEGRATE BY STICKING TO WHATEVER VALUES THEY CLAIM TO OBSERVE, YET THEY FAIL AND FAIL AND FAIL TO ALLOW OTHERS OBSERVE THEIR OWN VALUES WHEN IN ARABIA!!!
The simple problem with islam is that time and time again it forgets there are other religions in the world even those that came before it, that is the simple fact, and that is why you are having to kill your way through terrorism and very soon the world will answer you people, quote me!

*Yawns*, Oh, the same old rants!

Jazakallahu khairan

Jazakallahu khairan. Very enlightening post.
Jummah Mubarak to all my Muslim brothers and sisters, may Allah accept our prayers

Truckpusher:
But it's the truth.
I strongly believe that there are some situations you find yourself the last thing on your mind is doing anything that will bring another human into that world of yours.

I term it as wickedness and being self centered.

I agree wt ur POV, although I don't think they'll av space for sexual activities sef.
Anyway HML to them

LastProphet:
muslims hate objectivity so you are not making sense to them. the only solution is to allow all other religions have their freedoms too: Christian girls to wear skirts, sango worshippers to come with their beads around their neck, etc, then we will see who will call for negotiations

what is objective about what u said, u avn't even made any point. And for ur info, we take passports with our hijab.
And how wld other regions creating their own dress guidelines going to be a problem to us? We av a right to dress according to our religion's guideline. The hijab is the Muslim woman's identity and a religious obligation. I don't know abt the Christians since most of them dress anyhow they deem fit.
If Christians are allowed to wear skirts (how many Christian ladies wld even support that, how many wear mainly skirts?), it is no headache of ours. We never claimed we even like the trousers in the 1st instance.
All I see is someone blinded by hate and hypocrisy for no reason. Why shld Muslim women always be oppressed while trying to practice their religion?
How does a Muslim woman wearing hijab affect ur life?

All I see is hatred against the muslimah's dressing for no reason.
What is anyone's business with how a Muslim woman dresses, is she complaining or is she wearing the hijab on anyone's head?
There are so many hypocrites here, just trying to black name Muslim women, why? Just cos of their dressing.
We av to understand that the hijab is the identity of a Muslim woman, a religious obligation. A Christian can decide to wear anything she likes since they av no dress guidelines. So I don't know why Muslim women are always oppressed while trying to practice our religion. From Pry to Sec sch, except in Islamic schs most schs force the Muslim children to bare their head.
A woman that decides to cover up and be modest according to her religion is seen as oppressed, while someone who bares her body and seen as a mere sex object is hailed as having freedom, bunch of hypocrites.
I don't support the use of niqab or long hijab during NYSC too, I'm nt sure that has ever been in practice, but outright banning of hijab? Is a NO NO. A moderate hijab that'll allow easy movement during the camp activities is good enough.
I pray this BH menace comes to an end very soon.

all4naija:
Are they forcing it down others throats which support human right defenders? Jeez! Your intelligence wreak silliness.

I don't take light to insults on my intelligence, Mister. U av a right to ur opinion and I av right to mine. Not everyone must see from ur POV and tht doesn't make u more intelligent.

I know our representatives had very gud reason to go against it. I know there is an ominous sign behind the human right stuff, soon we'll have them forcing things like legalizing gay marriage down our throats claiming it's a right

whitecloth:
Will you try ' why you act the way you do by Tim lahaye

Thank u sir

HCF:
Ok..Haneefah...you can start with the book ' Why u act the way you do' -Tim LaHaye.

Also, by the same author is the book 'Spirit controlled Temperament'

Personality Patterns by Lana Bateman

Personality Puzzle -Florence and Marita Littauer.

Personality Plus by Florence Littauer.

You can get some of these books online...and other relevant texts too can be read/downloaded online.....

by the time u finish reading at least two, especially 'why u act d way u do' as suggested by whitecloth..u might be convinced that added to melancholic traits u also have traits of a sanguine!

Thank u so much. I really enjoyed discussing wt u.

Werin consign me. Bleachers Association of Nigeria, more grease to ur elbows.
Some women av even gone so mad wt bleaching these days, they are bleaching their children's skin. I saw a girl sometime ago, I felt like slapping the mother, her skin was already discoloured at just abt 5yrs

londongal03:
Thanks alot! you have just made a positive impact in ma life!

Really? U're welcome

HCF:
Lolz,....Yes u are quite right!. These Virtues are not so common these days. They are gradually going into extinction,like species of black rhinos....So,u can take pride in being among the few with the golden virtues .

However, I think u are mel/sang. and not mel/phleg. ( though i can't know u more than urself sha.lolz). Let me use one trait of phlegmatics to corroborate my point; Phlegmatics are so peace loving that they don't like arguments, but here you are trying to justify your line of arguement..!

...And this doesn't mean I am a Psychologist, I am NOT o...but I av read quite a number of books on human behaviour...and observing some of those things in people could be quite interesting and revealing!. It makes u understand people,hence there would be little friction between you and others. Its fun sha!

Lolz, yh, I guess that's what my friends like abt me.
Mel/Sang? That's like combining an introvert and extrovert temperament. I dnt necessarily like arguing but I do esp when I know I'm right, and I can be confrontational too.
That's cool, I want to join ur clique, what books will u recommend? I know it wld be fun and interesting, it'll be like being in on secrets of the human psyche. Like why pple behave the way they do.

jumpmasta:
Nkita racha gi onu eba!!!!

I don't know what u mean, but if it's an insult or curse. It's absolutely upon u

And what wld this achieve? How does Muslim female corps using hijab increase the rate at which BH operates or stop them from using other means (May God destroy them). As long as they use moderate hijab that isn't too big to disturb their activities in camp. All I see is a means Christians av been using to oppress Muslims. From primary sch to secondary sch unless one goes to an Islamic sch most schools force Muslim children to bare their heads. I can remember while I was in nursing sch we were forced to go around with caps baring our hair even when the use of hijab had been allowed by the NMCN until we fought for our right. We faced a lot of problems b4 we cld be able to use something we are entitled to.
We all av our right to religion, so I don't understand why other religions take joy in depriving Muslims this. If the Christians chose to bare their hair or even wear provocative clothes good for them, but why shld Muslim women be oppressed for practicing their religion? Nigeria is a secular Country but tht seems pple keep forgetting this.

londongal03:
Who is the ugliest among the two of them?

You don't use 'among' when comparing two things. Between is more appropriate. And it's uglier not ugliest.
U're welcome

Empressgifted:
This is just Me! The worst part is the part where I'm taken for granted, it hurts like hell which is why I almost blinded my classmate in JSS 2. I thank God I'm beginning to let go of bitterness, I nearly destroyed the girl's life which if I did I wouldn't have forgiven myself.

For now my method is never say YES always, for instance my roommate asked for my laptop to watch movies yesterday and I told her I also need it for a movie (I actually needed it for a movie) so I can't give it out. The normal me wouldn't mind giving it out, I mean it's mine and the movie is there for me to watch any other time but NO you just have to put up some resistance for them to know that hey! Someone is actually in there.

It kind of doesn't feel comfortable being who you are not but people just have to know their boundaries with you and if you don't create one they are ever ready to override you. They will think "after all she's quiet", what they don't get is she's quiet doesn't mean she's Stupid.

Lolz, u made me remember myself back then in boarding house. I think that's the phlegmatic part, not wanting to say NO to pple. I also have the same problem, I don't mind giving my things out, even if I needed it.
I was mother Christmas, I wld give out my provision to pple even when I knew they probably had theirs and were keeping it. Or borrow pple money even when their pocket money is more than mine, wc they might not pay back. When no one wants to take up a task, I find myself volunteering for it, etc. The funny thing is even though I had less, I never want for things and I don't like borrowing from pple.
But one thing I don't like is someone taking my things wtout telling me or not even bothering to (they cld be like, sebi it's Haneefah) that can get me mad and I don't take light to insults, While I was younger I was violent, but now very calm, becos I learnt to overlook some things. When I get angry, the person and everyone who knows me, wld know the person definitely bleeped up big time, and wld castigate the person even b4 hearing anything.
Being quiet doesn't mean one is stupid. Just be urself, and don't be overly sacrificial for pple who aren't worth it, think of urself too. And when someone does somethn u don't like let them know u don't like it and they shldn't try it wt u again.

HCF:
Lolz, the traits don't really make u good or bad. It is just who you are. But they are VIRTUES common among Introverts especially Melancholies.

On how I came about it,it is just psychoanalysis. You gave yourself away with the description you gave about your personality.

But, since u asked me to 'confess', here's my confession; I have the same set of traits, so I could easily relate to what you said!!!

Cool, but u will agree they are nice virtues not many pple have.
Funny thing is I haven't totally agreed I av a melancholic temperament, don't knw why cos some parts really fits me well apart from the overtly sensitive, organized,etc . I like things in order but not like it's a compulsive thing for me, and I can procastinate alot but not in a way that affects my outcome or do a task right at the min, depends on my mood, I like setting alarms for tasks and stick to it. I dnt mind things not going my way when I see there is a better alternative. And I'm definitely not self-centered nor selfish, frugal,yes but not stingy etc . I think I'm Mel/Phleg.
Lolz, I love the confession part, nice to av someone with similar traits.
So, hmmm, psychoanalysis? Are u a psychologist?

PDP definitely has no case here. What's there business if the APC candidate is substituted or the deputy gov candidate upgraded to the gov? The people voted for the party not the candidate, the candidate is dead but the party is still alive. INEC shld conclude the election and declare the winner, cest finite.Although this is an unprecedented case so let's see what actions the Supreme court takes.
But they should stop making noise and go to court if they think they av a case.

HCF:
Lolz

Let me add some other traits you didn't remember to mention; You don't like being taken for granted,just as u DON'T take people for granted. You cherish sincerity because you are also very faithful and trustworthy too. You are conscientious. You prefer issue-based 'talks' rather than mundane conversations.... When you talk,u could be brutally frank...You're more of a thinker than talker!......

If I got my speculations right, don't ask me how I got to know .

Lolz, U got me, but am I such a gud girl?
Hmmm, now I'm curious. I'll av to overlook ur last paragraph, sorry mister, u can't rouse my curiosity and just slip thru. Oya come and confess how u came abt ur speculations

daretodiffer:
That's me
Do you mean colleague as in work colleague?
What's her Muslim name?

Not work colleague, just a professional colleague and a sister sort of. Kasirat

Wow! This is top notch hilarious. Still wondering y she was crying and what she needs advice for.
OP, talk true, u made this story up

true2god:
Thanks man, God bless you. We are one family as human beings. Cheers!

Take care, I'm a lady btw.

daretodiffer:


That is the only way he sleeps at night

Lolz.
Ur Sig got me thinking though. If tht is u in ur p.pix although nt full bt u av a resemblance to a senior colleague of mine bt she is darker though.

Nice one OP, ur post kinda matches my sig

chisombenedicta:
Cc:bluerat
Icelord

Let me explain as I understand it.
Statement of result is given to u by ur sch prior to the release of the certificate by WAEC, it states ur result but letter headed by ur sch name. The original WAEC result or certificate is given by the WAEC body itself

true2god:
Quran 9:29, Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture (christiams and jews) - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

The above instruction was never a defensive but an offensive war\fight againt against the christians and Jews who didnt accept allahh as god and mohammed as his messenger. Compare it with 'there is no compulsion in religion' mantra (quran 2:256), there is a clear contradiction, the latter verse was abrogated for the former. Quran chapter 9 was completely revealed in medina and abrogated the peaceful mecca diplomatic verses (when islam was weak).
Although the quran didnt specifically asked muslims to kill apostates, just as the quran did not ask muslims to pray 5 times a day, the hadith (which forms 90% of islamic laws and which act as interpreter for the quran) recommended death for apostates. The scholars who are opposed to death for apostates are in the minority and irrelevant in islamic authority and most are secular muslims who do not hold a conservative view of certain islam doctrines. Some of them grew up in the west, hence the change in orientations about life.

All the 5 schools of islamic jurispundence cant be wrong on this matter, unless you are tacitly telling me that islam is false.

Saudi still kill sorcerers till date, see links below:
www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18503550
www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/29/indonesia-workers-in-saudi-arabia-are-on-trial-for-witchcraft-some-facing-the-death-penalty.html
www.newsweek.com/beheadings-saudi-arabia-quickens-pace-321587
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-has-beheaded-its-110th-prisoner-this-year-10439019.html

These are the few reports that make international headlines, most of the beheading of sorcerers are done secretly. So dont judge the catholics church for killing witches some hundreds of years ago while saudi arabia is still doing the same till now.

It was very nice discussing with u. I'm ending my discussion with u by saying Allahu Alam (Allah knows best). It is obvious u are good at research, make researches with unbiase and keen mind (difficult I know), abt all these claims not only the Muslim critic scholars but also the well-known reliable Islamic Scholars. I won't waste my time going back and forth with u. My submissions av been made on all the issues u discussed above. If u really want to know more make researches. The killing of sorcerers has no justification in the Quran nor hadith although it is haram. And When seeking hadiths note the authenticity and strength. Make ur own deductions and blive what u want. All the best.
And Allah knows best.

true2god:
Even if I dont agree with you completely I am impressed by your mature response. You quoted that the apostle of allahh said 'there is no compulsion in religion' so as to nullify the hadiths on killing of apostates but failed (or pretended) to accept the fact the these verse was revealed in mecca (when\where islam was weak and peaceful and was under persecution from meccan pagans). If you study the concept of abrogation of verses in the quran you will understand what i am talking about here.

While quran said 'there should be no compulsion in religion' (while mohammed was persecuted in mecca), he asked muslims to fight non-muslims in quran 9:29 (while he was strong in medina). Can you see any contradiction? Which revelation came last, the peaceful or the violent one? The violent one came last and abrogated peaceful one.

So you will see there is dynamics in islamic theology which mohammed companions understood perfectly and were recorded in the hadiths. All the four sunni schools and one shia school of jurispundence unanimously agreed that apostates should be killed. Are you saying that you understand hadith narrations and interpretations than the saudis and the iranians? We dont need to be too scholarly about it when the cradle of islam (saudi arabia and iran) had already put in practice their religious theology. You may not like the practice that does not mean you should deny, it is in your religious theology.

On killing of witches by the papal church in the middle ages, that is true, it is no longer practices by any church but the saudis are still beheading some alledged witches and sorcerers as i am typing now. So dont bring up past church doctrines to validate current islamic barbarism.

I'll answer u as I deem fit, starting from ur last paragraph, I never used Christian doctries to validate anything cos it seems u're always on the defensive abt that. It wldn't even make sense since it's 2 different religions. I only used it to bring up a reason one or more of these hadiths cld av been fabricated wt made up chains in the 3rd generation since many of the early hadith scholars seemed to be unaware of these penalties. Or it cld be due to hypocrisy practised by some apostates during the time of the Prophet, in wc some Jews pretended to join Islam and be Muslims, then spread falsehood abt Islam, or leave the religion in such a way to shake the faith of new converts. Even at that no solid evidence can be given for killing for mere apostasy. There is a Sahih hadith abt a bedouin that apostated and had nothing done to him. And a man who the Prophet had invited to Islam, and he said he disliked, the prophet replied 'Even if ye dislike it'. He didn't coerce him to join Islam. I don't know abt the killing of witches in Saudi u claim.
I know well abt the abrogations, bt the verse regarding 'no compulsion in religion' was never abrogated and contratry to ur claims were revealed in Medina where Muslims had a strong hold and supported with many similar verses of the Quran. The verses regarding killing, were revealed during war, when the Muslims were at war wt the pagans who were opperessing them or who initiated war against them. Many other verses were revealed pertaining to apostasy in the Quran (refer to former posts) and in all no mention of a death penalty was mentioned, there were even verses e.g. Q4:137, where Allah talked abt those tht blive then disblive and blive then dislike again and grow stubborn in denial of truth, that He will not forgive nor guide them.
Surely, if there were a death penalty prescribed for apostasy by the Quran, the person wld av been killed the 1st time and wldn't even av a 2nd chance.
I wldn't know why the scholars agreed wt an hadith that doesn't tally wt the verses of the Quran and from just a single isnad and av weaknesses for such a grave penalty, Walahu Alam.
Notable scholars that do not support the death penalty and compulsion in religion are Maliki jurist Abul- Walid Al-Baji, Hanbali Jurist Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Kathir, Ibn Qayyim, Shalbut, Tantawi. Who agreed death penalty is unwarranted unless the apostasy is accompanied by rebellion against the community.
I av made my submission, u can chose to blive what u want. Whether for or against. I only answer u cos I want to and u seem level-headed and mature in relation, not cos I av or need to proof anything to u.
Walahu Alam (And Allah knows best)

vooks:
You just can't stand common sense and reason. You are excused

If throwing insults like a toddler throwing tantrums is ur idea of common sense, I don't want to know what ur stupidity wld entail

daretodiffer:
He is not convinced

He knows the Hadiths but have no idea what makes them weak or maybe he does but cannot be bothered.

I am sorry but you have to know this, the only people you can engage are people who are ready to listen, reflect and learn. He and the other foo.ls are not ready to do any.

Abi jare my sister. I'm tired sef, I'av got to sleep soon. They wld keep asking questions bt when answered wld refuse it or start imagining faults.
Tht was why I ignored the Vooks guy, I dislike pple who can't chat or discuss in a mature, intelligent and civil manner, becos I can't be forced to come down to their lvls.
I just gave this guy a chance, if he bleeps up too, I'm out.
Av a gud nyt sis, may Allah protect us.

true2god:
I never quoted ibn ishaq or al-tabari, what I quoted is sahih bukhari concerning the mohammed sahabas who all concured to the fact that apostates should be killed, in lines with the instructions (or approval) of the islamic prophet. And of course saudi arabia, iran, pakistan understand this hadiths perfectly and are applying it, so I am not blanketly condemning anyone\group.

Can you please provide the list of 'authentic' hadiths we can quote so that we dont misunderstand islam\muslims any more?

I never said u quoted their works, but u made mention that Muslims depend a lot on their works.
U av to know that to consider an hadith authentic, the chain of narrators must be strong.
Although these hadiths seemingly seem strong due to the credibility of Sahih Bukhari bt they actually aren't due to faults in their chains of transmission.
First and most important the Quran has no backing for killing apostates and made it clear there is no compulsion in religion.
It is also shown that the authentic words of the prophet prescribes no punishment for apostasy, 'refer to former post'. The hadiths wt prescribed punishment are queried.
Weak links are:
- If the prophet had wanted to give a law concerning apostasy prescribing such serious punishment as death he wld av made it known to a large no of companions and pple who wld then pass it to successors. These hadiths wld av been widely reported by many companions not just one.
- Most of the early Muslim scholars seem to be unaware of the penalty. Notable are Ibrahim Al-Nakha'i (a teacher to imam Abu-Hanifah) and also Sufyan Al-Thawri who ruled that apostates shld be invited into Islam as long as they repent. These were leading hadith experts and wld av followed the penalty if it had been prescribed
- These hadiths aren't as strong as an hadith prescribing death shld. Considering the chain of transmission. The hadith is narrated only by Ayyub Al-Sakhitiyani in 3rd generation, only Ikrimah in 2nd generation and Ibn Abbas in 1st generation. In addition there are some of these narrations wt no companion in the isnad. This means only few pple narrated in the 2nd and 3rd generation, and only one wt Ibn Abass is quoted.
Worthy of note is Ibn Abass was just a boy of 13yrs at the death of the Prophet, so it's inconceivable tht the Prophet will give a law prescribing death to only a 13yrs old to transmit.
- the reliability of Ikrimah is questioned and has been seen as not trustworthy by notable hadith scholars. He was known to attribute false traditions to Ibn Abass. Notable hadith collectors like Muslim and Malik disliked mentioning him as a narrator unless supported by more trustworthy narrators to strengthen the chain. And this is why none of these hadiths can be found in Muslim. He was known to be a khawarij, who blive and practised killing Muslims considered apostates and opponents of Ali. He was reported to av once said 'he wished he had a spear to kill all that had come for hajj this yr'
'They are all apostates'
- Many of the narrations av several differences from each other
The narrations I-III abt burning
I- we are not told whether Ali came to know Ibn Abass rejection.
II-Woe to Ibn Abass or some said 'Woe to Ibn Abass mother'
III- Ibn Abass said the truth
The word used to describe the pple 'burnt'
I- zanadiqah- atheists
II- apostate
III- pple who worshipped idols
We can see the hadith suffered changes and can't be trusted enof to base a law on.
- The hadith requires us to know Ali (a companion who had been wt d prophet for abt 23yrs) did nt knw d prophet's prohibition abt burning pple or ignored it, while Ibn Abass who only spent 3 yrs (10-13yrs) knew abt it. Even if this had supposedly happened the other companions wld av called Ali to order, and certainly such acts wld av been widely known by a lot of pple then and passed on to successors. But apart from this report, no other person reported such, and it was never seen in any book of Islamic history.
- 'Whoever changed his religion, kill him' appears rather careless in it's formulation and wasn't clarified nor elaborated in other hadiths. Usually laws were given in context and difficult to blive it came from the prophet
- These hadiths are mostly related to 3rd generation narrators like Ayyub, Qatadah, Zayh bn Aslam.
Zayd didn't give any source for the hadith while Qatadah narrated from a) Al-Hasanb) Al-Anas
This is however unlikely since they av a large no of studts bt only Qatadah narrated it, wc makes d isnad doubtful.
Conclusion- there is no basis for killing apostates in the Quran and the Prophet never killed any apostate. The hadiths claiming the penalty av weakness in their chains bt were gradually widely accepted by the 3rd generation was the appealing nature of loyalty to one's grp wc was founded in cultures and traditions then, the Jewish tradition for death to apostates,the Romans and later Christians who killed heretics and witches.

vooks:
Do you know how ret@rded it is to claim that a six year old never resisted marriage?
The least I expect from you is intelligent answers not nitwit canned responses.

Question, if there was no law against marrying six year olds and if a six year old consented to you marrying her, would you marry one and masturbate on her thighs?

And u actually think u sound intelligent right now? Sorry I don't discuss with pple like u? When u are ready to be civil, let me know. I won't go down to ur lvl by exchanging insults with u