₦airaland Forum

deSika: bro it should not be a problem. Having three personalities does not mean confusion

you should be able to get a clearer picture when you represent Jesus as the word of the father. The word is not independent from the person that speaks it. Infact the word is a part of the speaker as the word comes from within the speaker.

If you can call Jesus God the son being the son of a God and having the spiritual nature of God. Then am afraid that you Just called Jesus God. As we can not have more than one God.

When i say God i mean the Godhead.

I understand what you are saying. That Jesus is so distinct from his father for him to be his father. But the truth is that Jesus juxtaposes his father so much that they just have be one. Not only in creation but in other things. Even the bible in so many instances say things like 'i and my father are one', if you have seen me you have seen the father, 'the father, the spirit,the word are one and bear witness' . JESUS is called mighty God, Jesus is referred to as God with us. Have you ever asked yourselve which God is with us. Is it a different God, if its a different God, then how many Gods do you then have. Certainly there is only one God. If Jesus is God that is with us that means he is the God who you refer to as God.

My friend, its all about expressing himself in different ways. Someone once aptly said that God the father is God over us, God the son is God with us, God the holyspirit is God in us. Its all about expression. But they maintain thier oneness.


...Shalom aleichem

I have never in my life called Jesus God the son.....never ever......

Please when Jesus said he and the Father are one what do you think he actually meant??.....

John 17:20-23

20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray
also for those who will believe in me through
their message, 21 that all of them may be
one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in
you. May they also be in us so that the world
may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have
given them the glory that you gave me, that
they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them
and you in me—so that they may be brought to
complete unity. Then the world will know that
you sent me and have loved them even as you
have loved me.



The above verse describes what ever Christ meant when he said I and the Father are one..........he wasn't refering to an ontological oneness if not we all would be GOD the almighty too are part of the GODhead........

Because of Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him,so Jesus could rightly say if you've seen me you've seen the Father......Jesus was a representative of the Father........

Now the truth is we are also in both Jesus and the Father.....that should even make higher than the both of them(Jesus and the Father)...........

Jesus being refered to as Immanuel in no way means it is God himself who is with us literally speaking.......its a name he'll bear because he was sent by God and would do Gods work by bringing comfort to peoples........

We have persons in bible times who had answered names like Eli′athah which means
" God Has Come'"...............

The role such persons play is the reason why they are given such names not because it is who the person is.......

No man hath seen GOD(The Father) and so he sends his representatives who we can see and not die........

And expressions like God the son and God the holy spirit do not exist in the scriptures........what exists is just God the Father alone......

Am I lying??.....

deSika: aha so you are saying God the father has given Jesus the ability to create and so he invites Jesus to come join him create man.

Understand what am saying. The fact that men are involved in the reasoning disqualifies any 'personality of God ' syndrome from this sitation especially as reasonming is not an exclusive act performed by God.

But in the case of creation story. The ability to create is the exclusive act performed only by a God and not any mere spirit being. Only God can create No other spirit being can do that. So for Jesus to have the ability to create means that he is a God. And since we cant have 2 Gods. It then means that Jesus is a part of a Godhead.
And this is a pointer for you. In our image changes to in his image. It just goes to show you that 'our' and 'his' are one.

But how can we reason if we were not bestowed with such abilities.....can God reason with animals or plants??.....

What do you understand by the word GODhead??....what does it mean??.....

Please define it......Jesus being given that power to create does not make him equal to God.......its like saying God giving Jesus the authority and power to rule makes Jesus equal with the one who gave him authority......

deSika: chief, all you need to do is to engage a little reasoning.

In Isaiah the parties involved in the reasoning all have the ability to reasoning. Thats why man can be included there. But in genesis the parties involved must need have the ability to create, that rules out any angel being a part of 'let us'. So who is the 'us'. it must mean that there is a 'more than one personality' about God.

The two scenarios are differednt. Come to think of it. Why would 'Let us' be used. Do you have any alternative idea

Yes all the parties involved including God could reason...right??.......

But are these thinkers all personalities of GOD??......

God has given us the ability to reason.....and so he invites us to reason with him.......

Apply this to Jesus as regards creation...............

deSika: @Ijawkid
who is talking about a multiple personality disorder.

Ok i get. You agree that Jesus has a physical and spiritual nature. And infact as a spiritual being he is so close to God as to be able to do somethings that God the father can do. You only disagree that Jesus is the same with God the father

Atleast you are not restricting Jesus to being just human who does not have any spiritual nature. Thats good.

but come to think of it. Can you call Jesus God the son. Since you call him the son of God. [just as the son of a lion is a lion so the son of God should also be a God in his own right especially as Jesus is a spiritual being.]

should i also take it that you agree that Jesus was part of the personalities of God that was involved in creation [i say this because its only God that can create].

We wil just need to do a little delving into the scripture to see why Jesus is God, as well as the spirit

The bolded is my problem......Jesus is not part of the personality of GOD,Jesus is a person distinct from his Father(GOD).....

Jesus was given power to serve as Gods agent for creation.....remember that Jesus was granted to have life in himself.......



The moment you say God has 3 personalities then you're saying God is confused.......

And when you say God who do you mean??.......

deSika: this was what you said
then i said

youve not being able to answer that

then i asked again

nothing still from your end

so permit me to do the following explanations
When God said 'us' he was trying to show you Ijawkid that he has more than one personality. when the bible now said "so God created man in his own image. he was trying to bring you back to the fact of his oneness.

now for you to say God was speaking to another personality different from God is wrong. because it would mean that God is not the only spirit being with the ability to create. if we were to go by your statement, the next verse which says 'so God created man in his own image' would mean that the other persons different from God whom God was speaking to would have refused to join God and leave him to do the work alone.

so what is the correct interpretation.
first you have to understand that 'us' (more than one) in verse 26 = 'his' (one) in verse 27 because both 'us' and 'in' are involved in the creation business. and yu know that God is the only creator

since the other personalities that God was telling "let us" all have the innate ability to create. it therefore means that they are God in thier own right, they are not different from the person speaking but yet they are disctinct personalities.

i know it may sound confusing, but its all clearly spelt out in the bible.
you just have to take the word for what it is.

Gen 1:26 and God said let us [/b]make man in [b] our image...
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image...
Gen 1:29 And God said behold i ....

God was not speaking to spirit beings or angels as they do not have ability to create. so that rules out angels. so who was God speaking to. he was speaking to the three personalities embedded in himself.

take note: when God uses the word 'us' and 'our' he is trying to tell you that there is a 'more than one person' about God. if you keep denying this, you might just be denying the very bible you are carrying.

wow!

Ok let me go straight to the point......

God must have been talking to his firstborn son who was with him before man was created.....no running arounds....this is my answer...God is not one suffering from multiple personality disorder.......and the almighty is 1 person,1 being,the Father....make no mistake about it.....

The bolded is where the confusion comes....

they are not different from the person speaking but yet they are disctinct personalities

The above is the madness the trinity profers which has infact tarnished God the Father..........

God is not a confused psychopath so as to have different personalities............


God is the Father alone......

All he does is give authority to his son to take part in creation,judging,ressurection.ruling etc.......

The above madness is the reason why u can't understand why Jesus doesn't know the day and hour but only the Father knows.....

They are both different persons with different wills(though the son has to agree with his Father and do his will).......

deSika: . The question is did Jesus at any time have a spirit nature. Yes. Did Jesus at anytime have a human nature. YES. How many natures are there. 2

Its sufficient for me that you agree that Jesus is a spirit and that that same Jesus was a man. If Jesus is a spirit and later became a man, how many nature is that. Added to the fact that he did not discard his spirital attributes while being a man but was able to do and say things that are impossible for men. Its too obvious my friend stop denying it.

the bolded part asks why i dont agree with Jesus when he says only his father knows.

Thats dual nature. Dual nature does not mean that he would be invisible while walking as a man. Him becoming a man entails that he would follow the laws governing manhood. Him having dual nature entails that he can do what is impossible for man to do. His not knowing if there is any thing like that in the bible is a part of his human nature.

You are insinuating Jesus' memory was halfed??.......right??.....

he knew angels didn't know the day and hour including himself but only the Father knew.......

You might just be infering that Jesus didn't know himself.......

Now the question is:::: is Jesus really the Jesus who pre-existed??.......should I believe Jesus' words since his human nature must have affected his decisions and sayings??.....

I stick to the Fact that Jesus had his memory from heaven intact and that infcat he did not knw the day and hour but only the one invisible God the Father......

deSika: i see you have a problem with the no 3. Subsequently i will show you why its 3.

At the bolded. Do you realise that God was speaking to personalities that had the ability to create. Now are you trying to say that God is not the only spirit being that has the ability to create. That he was speaking to other spirit beings who had the ability to create. That would mean that God is not the only spirit being that can create.

The last time i checked. We have only one creator spirit being who created every other thing (spirit beings and the rest.)

so tell me how many spirit beings that have the ability to create do you have apart from God

May I inform you that I believe Jesus took part in creation....but was Gods agent......

So in verse 27 it won't be contradictory if it is said God created man in his own image.....

Because he is the ultimate source....

Even Jesus is the image of that one invisible GOD the Father.......

All of us are image of that one invisible God the Father.....

deSika: bro for Jesus to have been a spirit and then later become a man. Thats dual nature

for Jesus to have had all the unique abilities he had while been a man. For Jesus to have been able to do somethings that are 'unmanlike' just shows dual nature.

Its so obvious but i dont know why you keep denying it

But he wasn't spirit on earth na....abi??......

And you didn't answer the bolded....

deSika: but you saw the words 'us' and 'our' .

it seems you have a problem with '3'.

But atleast you must agree that there is a 'more than one person' nature about God for him to use the word us. Do you agree

if you agree then we can move forward to identifying the personalities in the us from the bible.

Naaaa......God remains a spirit and one that can't be seen.....

God is one 1 person the Father........

When God says Us he was definitely talking to someone who wasn't a part of himself but someone who is a distinct person(s) from Him......

It could have bEen 1 billion persons....

deSika: by throw away i meant to discard, to cease to have the attributes of spirit being again. But of course you know that Jesus had some spirit being attributes. No man has the ability to know the thoughts of other men but Jesus had this ability.

My point is Jesus was a 100 percent man when on earth and not some combo.....

Having his memory intact doesn't mean he had a dual nature at that moment.....

Jesus remained flesh and blood for complete 33 and a half yrs and never did he dematerialize or become a spirit at any instant........

Jesus before his death didn't have that ability like angels do to materialize and dematerialize....hope you now understand when I say Jesus didn't have a dual nature.....

Yeah Jesus had that ability to read the minds of people and had his memory intact like I said....

So why do you and your colleagues disagree with Jesus when he says the day and hour he doesn't know but only the Father??.....

deSika: because its what the bible shows us.

But seriously, did you think about those verses. If God could use the word "us" for himself. Does that not send a message to you that this one God may afterall have an "us" personality.

But come to think of it. Why would you restrict a God who uses "us" and "i" to refer to himself to just one personality. Are you wiser than God.

From genesis I can't see where it says there 3 persons......I just can't see it......

Why must God be confined to just 3 persons??....why not 10,4 or 7 billion??.....

Why 3??.........

And you made a good point when you said God is a spirit.....if Jesus on earth could make that statement when everyone could see him and touch him then ofcourse he wasn't the God he was talking about......

deSika: playing around with words huh, you wouldnt say throw it away, what would you then say. Its either he threw it away or he retained it. If you cant say he threw it away then permit me to put it to you that he retained it and if he did not throw it away it means he has a dual nature

Lmao.....where him throw way am go??....for dust bin??.......God transfered his life into marys womb......and became no longer a spirit but flesh and blood.......

If Christ had a dual nature intact he wouldn't have had blood flowing in his veins....

deSika: you seem to put Jesus on the same plane with men. Pls clarify on this. Is this what you are saying. That Jesus is same as every other man and had no distinguishing spirit attributes while on earth .
you said Jesus is a spirit being. You also said Jesus was a man while on earth. You cant say Jesus threw away his spirit nature while on earth. Thats dual nature. I dont know why you are denying it.

I said Jesus was a spirit being when in heaven........on earth God made him lower than angels(no more spirit) to be flesh and blood.......

But Jesus was perfect.......

deSika: By the way am sure you realise that there are things Jesus did and said that no man has the ability to do or say. So i dont know why you keep equating Jesus with man. And i dont know why you refuse to see Jesus as having the nature of man and the nature of God [remember GOD is a spirit]

Jesus had his memory intact......what Jesus wasn't when on earth was that he was a spirit and then man at the same time......

His Life or existence was not a different one......it was his body that was different...his past and all his memories were intact.......

Jesus when on earth was a perfect man...I'm only saying he was flesh and blood...he had to be like his brothers(US).....

deSika: Bonus question
Frosbel and his team seem to think that it does not make sense for God to be triune.

So i thought i could ask them this question.

Does it make sense that God would say in Genesis 1:26 let us make man in our image and then go on to say in genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image and in verse 29 and God said, Behold, [b] i [/] have given you...

My point is this
you should not say what you think God should be with your primitive mind but rather you should go for what God has shown himself to be in the bible.

Trust me on this. Your mind is too primitive for you to use it to judge between what you think God should be and what the bible says God is.

You need the spirit. And when you hear the word of the spirit. Do not harden your hearts. For God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth not in logical reasoning.

I rest my case

What you failed to ask yourself is why isn't God quadruple or decuple??....why is it the triology??.......

deSika: are you saying Jesus threw away his spiritual being nature while on earth.

I wouldn't say throw it away.....he was made by God to be lesser than the angels who were spirits so that he could be flesh and blood.........God who made him lower was the same God who exalted him back to being a spirit being after his work was done here on earth....

deSika: oh sorry, you didnt say being in your first response. so you are saying we are all sons of God, including the prostitutes, armed robbers. is that what you are saying

Lol........when the armed robbers repent they become his sons.......but by default just as adam was Gods son so are we......

deSika: if someone can have two natures does that not make him dual natured. or what else is the meaning of dual nature if not to have double nature as you have just explained.

Like man does not have dual nature.......

We are flesh and blood completely......

It is either one is a spirit or flesh and blood....not both.....

Itsfacts: this man dont know what unity means

[b]Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.[/b] The speaker in this verse is obviously God, and yet He says He has been sent both by The Lord God (that is, the Father) and by His Spirit (that is, the Holy Spirit).

Have you compared isaiah 61:1 to really know what that scripture means or it is saying??......

King James Bible (Cambridge
Ed.)
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is
upon me; because the LORD hath
anointed me to preach good tidings
unto the meek; he hath sent me to
bind up the brokenhearted, to
proclaim liberty to the captives,
and the opening of the prison to
them that are bound;

The above verse from isaiah that is brought is to show how people are sent by Gods spirit.......they are annointed with Gods spirit to do Gods work.......


Please I hope you do know the person who was sent in that verse well in advance is cyrus.....whose hands God would use to bring the chaldeans down......

Long in advance God had purposed who would exhonorate his people and send thwm back to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem.....

Please read the 2 preceding verses......

14-15

14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear ;
which among them hath declared these things?
The LORD hath loved him: he will do his
pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the
Chaldeans. 15 I, even I, have spoken ; yea, I
have called him: I have brought him, and he
shall make his way prosperous .


Please compare isaiah 41:2, 44:28, 45:1,13 ,46:11......

Itsfacts: see this man you use the bible add to it. and yet you blame KJV for what? the things that is added in your bible is only done to change the meaning to fit your doctrine

And I laugh......

Please open to 1 john 5:7 on your KJV and look everybody in the eye and tell us if that excerpt ever existed in the original greek manuscript.......

Please.....

Your colleagues quoted from it ,I decided not to interject with the fact that it is an addition......

I continued with your colleagues in the discussion...

And then I asked them...

When that excerpt says ;; and the witnesses in heaven are The Father,Christ and the holy ghost,and these 3 are 1.....

One what??.....

Till today nobody don answer me......

You think the KJV is the most holy rendition??......

My question to all trinitarians........

Which is the inspired translation which fell down from heaven..........

Benalvino is sneakily trying to confine everyone to the KJV which is fraudulent at its best........

The JW's cross check with all bible renditions from time to time to teach nothing but the truth.......

I would even blame the KJV onlyist who have proudly stuck to one bible rendition even when it is known that this same bible rendition has got its load of errors.......

The NWT is just like anyother rendition with simplified english....easy to read and has in place where the tetragrammaton was fraudulently removed ages ago.........


All bible renditions as far as the whole community of those who claim to be christians are concerned are open to criticism.......starting from the KJV which did not exist in the times of william tyndale..........

deSika: ok so he was not a man while on earth?

He was a man while on earth.....100 percent man like adam.......but perfect......

deSika: so can i say that everything that God formed and created is God's son. the earth was also created by God is it also Gods son. the birds.... i can go on and on.

Beings bro......

Persons.......

Starting from Jesus,to the angels and to man........

deSika: ok do you agree then that Jesus has a dual nature. and can be said to be 100% man and 100% spiritual being.
if he is dual natured why then do you argue that Jesus cannot be man and then God at the same time. remember God is a spiritual being. My point is simple. Jesus has the nature of a man and the nature of God. we then have to align scriptures to see that Jesus' spiritual nature is equal to God

Jesus' nature isn't dual the way you think of it.......

It was only when Jesus came to the earh through a woman that he became 100 percent man....there was never a time when he was dual.......when he was on earth he was 100 percent man(perfect),when in heaven he is a spirit being like the Father and all other angels...........

deSika: 1. Who do you say Jesus is?a man or a spiritual being

A spiritual being like his Father and like the other angels....

deSika: 2. When you say Jesus is the son of God. What do you mean

..He was formed,produced by God...and by virtue of that God is his Father and he is Gods son...

deSika: 3. Did Jesus exist in heaven before coming to earth.

YES...

deSika: 4. If answer to no 3 is yes, then was Jesus a man while in heaven.

He was a spirit in heaven......

benalvino: why don't you like answering question? where is it in my front? when I ask you question you will take for ever to answer it.

When it is said the mountains are brought forth by GOD what does it mean??......

And from everlasting to everlasting God remains GOD......

Read psalm 90:2 it gives me retort...

King James Bible (Cambridge
Ed.)
Before the mountains were
brought forth, or ever thou hadst
formed the earth and the world,
even from everlasting to
everlasting, thou art God.


Please after brought forth,the synonyms of it was used in the nex bolded....

And I agree...God is from everlasting to everlasting......

Ok the KJV uses beginning of the creation of GOD.......

It even suits me.....

Let's get along........

How does the above exempt Jesus from being Gods creation??

benalvino: not by God, but of God
ur love for twisting the bible have to stop lol... any time u quote bible the words are disfigured

But you say KJV na......

You said let's go by the KJV.....this is the KJV version.......

Which one u dey again??...

benalvino: dodge my question again... I answered u with I don't know but still I will compare the words. I asked you again
When they say GOD is everlasting it means he has no beginning isn't? please answer this question and if he has not beginning it mean his wisdom too has not beginning as his wisdom is part of him. answer this

The answer is in front of you......

How are the mountians brought forth??......

Not until we conclude that this wisdom in proverbs 8:22-30 was created or formed would I answer your question....

You dodged by saying the KJV never used born,give birth or form in proverbs 8:23-25......


Let us get down with that.......

You even quoted from psalms from the KJV...and it used brought forth....

If you don't know what brought forth means when applied to creation are you ready to learn??

benalvino: don't worry I will show them the greek words and use example. they have been thought not to think out of the box

Ok let's consider Jesus being the beginning of the creation by GOD.....

Please...

KJV time...oya.....

benalvino: I don't... you have been know for this. I thought I know you better but mr anony might know how you behave more when it comes to debate... like he mentioned KJV is true today if it supports u and when it doesn't its a bad translation... every one knows that about you now. we are only saying stick with one or 2 stop jumping from 1 to the other.

Ok now let's do it the KJV way......I don't care what anony says about me....

Is the Father under the authority of the son??.......

Answer....

I'm up with the KJV.....

Let's get it started......

benalvino: I don't know... it has nothing to do with proverbs...
now look at this question.

When they say GOD is everlasting it means he has no beginning isn't? please answer this question and if he has not beginning it mean his wisdom too has not beginning as his wisdom is part of him.

How can you say u don't know what it means when it is said the moutains were brought forth??........

KJV said wisdom was brought forth before the earth was.....right??.....

Proverbs 8:24

King James Bible (Cambridge
Ed.)
When there were no depths, I was
brought forth; when there were no
fountains abounding with water.

Psalm 90:2
King James Bible (Cambridge
Ed.)
Before the mountains were
brought forth, or ever thou hadst
formed the earth and the world,
even from everlasting to
everlasting, thou art God.


Please you have to explain it...don't you dare say you don't know.....

You can't just assume words when we are dealing with creation here......


Let us finish the creation issue here......

Because my job is to first of all make you know the wisdom in question was created.........

Please dwell on brought forth.....now let's use the KJV.....

honeychild: O.k. o. Revelation 3:14- and to the angel of the church of Laodecia write: These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, [/b] the Beginning of the creation by God[b] - New King James Version

The man/boy na mumu.......

They have dodged firstborn definition till they have become confused......

Now the beginning of the creation by GOD is what benalvino and every single one of them can't explain but yet they keep yapping.......

He now condemns all other translations except the KJV........

......

And back to the throne issue....

How is davids throne still the same as Gods throne??......

You rigmaroled through it with no answer..

Is it not obvious that since Jesus is giving power and invited to sit with God on his throne then Gods own throne is excepted from the thrones which God created through Jesus??........



How amazing how you have rjected the linking word. "through"........

May I ask you.....

Is the Father under the authority of the son??........

Bidam: Another error here Jesus firstborn is over all creation and not of creation.Go read other renditions and stop being fixated over one just to score a cheap point.

Beginning of Gods creation nkor??.......

ya eye blind......??.......

benalvino: taking words out of context with psalms 90:1-3... I have told you several times... stop quoting this verse saying they link. na wa for you o? see the psalm 90:1-3
1Lord, you have been our dwelling place in all generations. 2Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, you are God. 3You turn man to destruction; and say, Return, you children of men... you are plainly persistent.

when the bible says David throne is God throne very funny... the bible says david is the father of Jesus because of their linage and he will inherent david throne I don't see the point of this question... throne is not an attribute like wisdom... it says Jesus created all thrones in heaven and earth. throne did not later create anything.

you are happy that kanah(qanah) still means create that is why you are happy that God was with no wisdom at some point... you better do the right thing... KJV says possess if you like deceive your self then land for contradiction na you sabi. Wisdom exist in GOD eternally that is why saying create is a bad interpretation.

I don't know where you are getting your translations from but they are bad I must say.
proverbs 8:22-24
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water

there is nothing like born... we have told you do stick with KJV stop switching from one bible to the other... at least NIV and KJV. you just they quote from bibles who making the Word of God contradict its self anyhow.

can you get you kingdom interlinear? how can it be use for water and mountain?
when you close your mind so hard it will be hard for you to accept truth.
you always look for bibles that mess up the translations.

New Living translation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Living_Translation
Wikipedia tells you how their translations is misleading in translation philosophy

Please from the kjv u quoted on psalm 90:2....

What does the mountains being brought forth mean??.........

You evaded that text to still delude yourself........

And what do you think the hebrew word that was used in psalms 90;2 and proverbs 8:24 connote??.....

Please what does it mean when it is said the mountains were brought forth??.....

Oya let us consider the KJV together!..........

Since you have become a KJV onlysist........

Explain what It means when the mountains was brought forth..........

Bidam: Exactly which also agrees with the synopsis of John 1:1. The problem with these guys is they hardly study. They just swallow anything they see in Awake magazines and come here to argue for arguing sake. Don't you see that they quote KJV whenever it suits them as per this firstborn issue, But when KJV says " God was made manifest in the flesh" they immediately jump to the NIV.

Chei.....

Abeg look at proverbs...

Proverbs 8:25...


New International Version
(©2011)
before the mountains were
settled in place, before the hills,
I was given birth,

New Living Translation (©2007)
Before the mountains were
formed, before the hills, I was
born--

GNT
25 I
was born before the mountains, before the
hills were set in place,


Are these scriptures awake magazine??......