₦airaland Forum

@benalnivo...

Proverbs 8:25

New International Version
(©2011)
before the mountains were
settled in place, before the hills,
I was given birth,

New Living Translation (©2007)
Before the mountains were
formed, before the hills, I was
born--


Which is used here.....quana or the other hebrew word??.......

I was given birth to,I was born,I was formed......

Its up to you....

benalvino: the actual Word is Possess take note...

God have a personal wisdom then he created wisdom... are you listening to your self?

now you are saying GOD wisdom was displayed and manifested through his wisdom he created... clap for your self...
Jesus is wisdom from God a wisdom he created so he can manifest the Wisdom he didn't create through the wisdom he created... lmao you no go kill me for laugh. you go kill me for laugh.

the actual word for Create is bara(create, shape, form etc...)
the word used in proverb is qanah (buy, acquire, possess, create... etc) we all know that there was never a time God was without wisdom... that is something he already possess he didn't acquire it from somewhere but it is something he already possess.

your explanation just they make me laugh... and if you choose create then all the contradiction whatsoever will be on your head like jesus creating him self. God was without wisdom etc.

Please check up the hebrew word used at verses 23 and 24.....

2 verses after verse 22 it is said this wisdom is born........

Please check it up....

and check also what was used at psalms 90:2.........

And please answer this question....

When it is said that davids throne is Gods throne,does it mean God was without a throne??"......


I have clearly shown you how Jesus is wisdom from God...its left for you to be adamant as ever...........

I'm happy that quanah still means create.....

The next question is if u insist that possesed should be used,shouldn't it be used for the mountains and waters that this so called wisdom was possessed before they were possessed??

Wisdom says before the mountains were brough forth I was born....

New Living Translation (©2007)
I was born before the oceans
were created, before the springs
bubbled forth their waters.


Oboy its in your hands........

If Jesus never is part of Gods creative works but the first of it then its a lie to say he is the beginning of Gods creation......

Matthew 12:42

New Living Translation (©2007)
The queen of Sheba will also stand
up against this generation on
judgment day and condemn it, for
she came from a distant land to
hear the wisdom of Solomon. Now
someone greater than Solomon is
here--but you refuse to listen.

benalvino: funny... just link me to both verse abeg... then try answer the questions. was there a time God was without wisdom?
who is prudence wisdom dwell with? why did wisdom cry out... you cant answer all you do is misquote it... but we already know you na... you never answer questions your whole believe they Belittle God... that there was a time he never had wisdom. am asking was there a time God have to create his own wisdom? that is what you don't want to under... but apply different type of excuse.

If that proverbs says the wisdom which was talking was created what does that tell you??

Now did that verse say that that wisdom in question was the wisdom inside of GOD??......


The problem is that you deny the word creation in proverbs you've read.......

wisdom says he was the beginning of Gods creative works.....and behold it further says ""I WAS BORN"".......was formed.....

God had his personal wisdom and senses intact.......

Can you remember when it was said in the scriptures that something more than solomon is to come??......

Gods wisdom was displayed and manifested through his firstborn son Jesus Christ the greater solomon.........

Jesus is wisdom from God.....

When Jesus came didn't you see how he displayed Godly wisdom??......

shdemidemi: may be you missed my question..Show me where the bible says you should obey and imitate Christ to serve the father to be saved?

The scripture I quoted explains that....

How else do you get to the Father if you don't obey the words which he gave to his son to tell us......if you don't imitate Christ and follow the words that came out of his mouth how do you get to the Father??.....

That scripture I quoted answers your question jare......

benalvino: create for where... you see what I said? you don't answer the questions you look for a way to escape it. you making excuse all the time.

I quoted scriptures that defines what it means to be the beginning of another persons handi work......

I opened proverbs which uses the same expreSsion and it drove the point of the subject been created,born,formed,produced,.......

You denied it all.....

Oya explain wetin e mean to be the beginning of Gods creation you keep quiet dey define what only the word beginning means(arche)......

Are you a sincere person??.......

If Jesus is not part of Gods creation then he isn't the beginning of Gods creation.....

Chikena.....

benalvino: Who is prudence...
Is Jesus
1: man
2: angel
3: a god

And if Jesus was created does it mean he created him self since other was inserted... Without other things it means he created him self.

He is still arguing even when him see create with him eyes.........

I told you the NWT shouldn't be your problem.......

If I was using it for this discussion then you can worry about it.....

Jesus is called the beginning of Gods creation and the firstborn of all creation........

Proverbs defines these words explicitly even though other scriptures had defined these expressions clearly which you didn't accept.....


.........


My Job is done......

shdemidemi: Show me where the bible says you should obey and imitate Christ to serve the father to be saved?

Oboy.......

John 3:17...

17 For
God did not send his Son into the world to
condemn the world, but to save the world
through him

Jesus is the agent through which we can get to the Father and be saved........

benalvino: 95% of the question I have asked him he didn't answer he only just reply with his own question... am not surprised at all... I have been asking couple of question for more than a week same question no time he answered them.

I have answered your question on if Jesus had a beginning......what more do you want??.......

My job on this thread is to establish Jesus had a beginning......and I have shown it......

benalvino: Jesus was the morning star have nothing to do with his nature... he is also the lamb. so stop running from the question am asking you with silly question like this... I know he is the morning star but that's not what am asking... he is also the rock that's not what am asking. you keep running from that question you never try to answer any question am not surprised though.

Ahh the bolded......

Who is a morning star??.....Jesus is described as a lamb because he died a scrificial death.......how about him being a morning star just like the angels??......

Remember I'm trying to say Jesus is Gods spirit son but the first.....

And you haven't answered the greatest question of all time......

1 john 5:7 says and the 3 are one .....

What one??.......one naira ??......

Let me hear from apostle benalvino......

Bidam: am sick of changing banters with you..let me leave you with your folly and argue with reasonable people.after all frosbel never said Jesus was a spirit son(angel) like you..except that he erred in to thinking Jesus was 100% man which is partly correct.enjoy your servanthoodship..lol

Lol......

Enjoy your 3 headed Gods worship......

Please remember......

Yahweh our God is one Yahweh....

.........

shdemidemi: If I may ask you, what is the will of the father that makes you qualified for heaven?

That we obey his son whom he sent,imitate him(Jesus) so that we can serve Him(The Father) in spirit and truth and not downgrade him(the Father)..................



For GOOdness sake he is the GOD and Father of Jesus and all of us....

Why subject him to such nonsense called trinity.....

benalvino: they are one... abeg you what else do you want... this is excuse.
what does morning star have to do with the nature of him?

One what?......remember I won't even contest the fact that this rendered verse is spurious to the core.....

I want us to focus on this verse......

They are one what??......one naira or what??.......



Didn't you know Jesus was and is a morning star??.......

Did it escape your research work??......

Bidam: God the father, title,God the Son, title, God the Holy Ghost, title.hehehehe, Hallelujah to Jesus for this confusions of yours.

GOD the satan too.......

Read 1 corinthians 8:6......

We have just on GOD the Father....The Father and God of Jesus........I forgot the Father has a name too....YAHWEH......how sweet...

Bidam: . i now know your jesus to be an angel, why you been dey hide am before.lol

Lol......he is the humble firstborn son of GOD.....isn't that enough??

Bidam: .
ok o i don here servant of an angel.

Lol....I am a servant of Gods son....Jesus Christ...

Bidam: There is only one King and supreme Master of the whole universe. God doesn't share such kinds of title with mere mortals..remember Nebuchadnezzar story?

Lol......
........All kings were adored......you dare not go to a kings and not bow down......you dare not.....

Those men did not hear mary gave birth to God almighty......

Even mary and Joseph didn't worship baby Jesus...put your thinking caps on......

Bidam: My problem with you is that you don't reason at all..Did david ever say before abraham was I AM?

Even a man Jesus cured identified himself as "I AM".......

I only gave you a parallel so that you can think........

Why do you think the throne of david is at the same time called Gods throne??....that answers your book of life problem.......

Bidam: I actually don't know what you worship..may be lucifer who also is a god in his own right..titles my foot..SMH!!!

I worship Yahweh alone,while you worship 3 Gods.....confused baba.....

shdemidemi: Don't just come here for argument sake, read from the top of the chapter, you might be edified.

Just go hide your face.....

You quoted a scripture to prove something and you can't prove it....

I would ask again......

The Father ,son and holy spirit are one what??.........

benalvino: she already did... her point is he is still in heaven of course he is... that is why he is everywhere.
father son and holy spirit are one...
the father is God...
son is God
holy spirit is God...

each play different role in salvation...
Father is 1 son is 2 holy spirit is 3...
yet there is one God. period..

that is why you are afraid in answering if jesus is

man
angel or
a god.

I say add morning star to the list....I'm not afraid of anything..I've done my job on this thread......

Father ,son and holy spirit are one what??....

One what??.......

shdemidemi: @ijawkid.. Do you know you might not be saved after all. You and I are not the subject, but Christ is. No matter how many times you call Yahweh, that would not save you, you are only saved through Christ.

No you might just be the one who Christ would kick out.....

Because he says only those who do the WILL of his FaTHER would he welcome.....

Ask yourself are you doing the will of the Father who is the one God of Jesus and all by believing in the trinity??.....

Is the one GOD the Father or not??........

benalvino: excuse at its finest

Please did you all read the next verse??.......

Why would you want to wrench the one in that verse to mean one GOD??....

Isn't that 419 at its best??.....

benalvino: honestly you need someone else to explain it for you... you cant even understand it... Honey girl query is that God is not everywhere that his eyes sees everything from heaven... she didn't see the contradiction you saw because that which you saw doesn't exist... she only point out that he is in heaven not everywhere that's why she too out this part

Why didn't you wait for her to explain completely what she meant........??......she would give you the right retort......

benalvino: you are always looking for fault and try to inject false fault on us... we have told you millions of time that the father and son are distinct persons... it wont take long before you come out with this trick again. I have set my watch to see how long it takes.

But your statements always contradict your stance..........

If the Father and son are different person why can't you agree that the ONE GOD to us is just the Father alone??.......and that from him all persons starting from Jesus and everybody came from??........

you contradict yourself when you say the Father and son are 2 distinct individuals and yet make up 1 GOD the Father.......

Contradiction...........

Choose......

shdemidemi: You need make we go wake John to spoon feed you with what that means right? Stop acting a fool, you and I know what the verse is talking about.

Lol....

Show me from that verse where it says and the 3 are 1 GOD....if you can't forever shut up your mouth.........

shdemidemi: 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

One what??......

You see one GOD for there??......

If you see show us.......

benalvino: so you are saying Jesus is a super angel? abeg make una tell me Jesus nature before he came to earth...

a god?
angel?
man?

abeg una.

You forget to add morning star..........

Add am....

benalvino: when you read the whole stuff I posted there you will know what I mean... you took a tiny part of it. my post simply explain how he is everywhere... don't take words out of context. david explain it well...

It is by their Spirit that the Father and the glorified Christ have complete access to their creation! Through His Spirit, God’s reach extends to every nook and cranny of the universe, and there is—as David wrote—no place to flee from His presence. Yet He still retains a shape—a body—ruling in glory from His throne in heaven. It is from there that “His eyes behold” the sons of men (Psalm 11:4). don't take words out of context

You contradicted yourself.......

You said it is by there spirit that the Father(who is the only true one God) and Jesus acces there creation......and then later you said through his spirit.....

How many persons are in that HIS??....

It now occurs to me that you don't even see the Father as different from the son aka modalism.....

Who is the sole owner of the holy spirit??....

The Father or the son or both of them??......

You can keep confusing yourself for all eternity........

And always remember the son is the beginning of Gods creation....always remember........

Don't equate Jesus with his creator...

Bidam: So now agree the word was Jesus and this same Jesus was God from the beginning of creation?

problem with the title GOD again?.......the one GOD I know is the Father....and it is obvious Jesus isn't the Father....and from 1 corinthians 8:6 I'm not worried if Jesus is called GOD.......

Bidam: You think say Jesus na like satan wey get pride abi?
. put your thinking cap and reason the scriptures..men who hardly knew Jesus from the east came to worship him at birth..this worship was never obeisance like i said earlier.

Jesus was more of a humble servant of God than satan......

Satan refused to obey his creator,but Jesus did obey his creator,Father and GOD.....

That's why I imitate Jesus' example....


Those men who you think came to worship Jesus when he was born,did they tell you that it was GOD who was born??........they knew a king had been born....I hope you know how kings are adored??.........

Bidam: You your sef said the lamb(God the Son) acknowledging (God the father).abi why do you think the bible call it the Lamb's book of life aka God's book of life ?
na you too lie .

This is like asking why davids throne or solomons throne is also the throne of GOD...........

You see ya life??.......

Bidam: You just so confused and afraid that you are hell bent on holding to the status quo of your cult..i pity your life..Go and reason the bible for once.

Your the confused belligerent idol worshipper here.....

I worship one GOD the Father,you worship a confused trinity....

Bidam: Rather you are the one being a nabal by this your line of reasoning scriptures interpreting prophetic and symbolic meanings literally and interpreting glaringly literal scriptures as parables.



Always in the habit of jumping from one translations to the next..you can't even sit down for once and reason with your brain why this prophecy given by Isaiah came like this..does it mean God sacrificed an innocent,sinless, spirit son(according to you though you are yet to tell us how God can create another spirit apart from himself sha)or it means God the Son has to take on humanity to die for Man because He does not want Man to perish..This symbolic gesture was even exemplified in Gensis when God told Abraham to kill isaac..did God not provide the ram for sacrifice.He is God remember?

The point Is God saw it fit for his son to be sacrificed so that mankind can be reconciled to Him.....and I'm happy that u used abraham and isaac....may I ask you;;; with all your confusion as to who the Father is and who the son is,is abraham and isaac one and the same person??.....

Bidam: God sent his WORD(JOHN 1:1) how man times will i explain to you that what Paul was referring as first born means the second adam or last adam that was resurrected from the dead..we also will be resurrected just like him on that day.
You can't understand becos you are carnal.
you too don kolo

Lol....chei I don die.....firstbor means second adam...I haff die today...1st born of all creation means second adam??...bidam abeg you don wake up so??.....I'm talking about Jesus being the firstborn of all creation and the beginning of Gods creative works....
I understand the explanation you gave,I even used to define firstborn to one of your colleagues......when I say Jesus is Gods firstborn son I'm speaking wrt creation....

And Jesus isn't the literal words coming out of his Fathers mouth......Jesus being the word of God is a name he bears.....

Bidam: If also cannot grasp the simple logic that i keep repeating all over this thread that God is the source of all Creation and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the [b]extension of that source[/b] then i can't help you.

Are they not persons again??.....and when you say God is the source which GOD are you talking about??....sango??......

Bidam: Chei!! ijawkid with schoolboy sense..so until dem line Jesus, God and Holy Spirit before you go believe?

...them go line holy spirit with blood and water,.......them for do am the Father,blood and water,or the son ,blood and water......

Bidam: that's wat i wanna ask you.

Na me first ask....

Bidam: When we talk about trinity we are saying God in three persons not 3 are 1 God; two different meaning.

God in 3 persons and 3 persons in 1 GOD.....

No be the same thing??.......

From what the 1 John 5:7 quoted I can't just see where it says these 3 make up 1 GOD....I just can't see.....even steven wonder can attest to the fact that nothing of that sort is presented in 1 John 5:7..........

Ona just dey imaging things put for the scripture......

Bidam: what you are trying to tell me is that God created a firstborn son to kill him does it make perfect sense to you?

.....abeg read isaiah 53........your mumu don escalate finish.........

Darby Bible Translation
Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise
him; he hath subjected him to
suffering. When thou shalt make
his soul an offering for sin, he
shall see a seed, he shall prolong
his days, and the pleasure of
Jehovah shall prosper in his hand.

Because of adams failure God had to send his firstborn son........

I still can't understand of you're it is the trinity you believe in again.....

You've gone mental............

Jesus came from heaven...he is not the same as Yahweh.........if your head never fit grasp this simple truth then wetin e fit ever grasp??.....

Bidam: how..your ogogoro dey confuse you abi?

......

Bidam: .... oh i can see where your madness about Jesus equal yahweh emanates from cos you can not explain john 1:1

John 1:1 is as easy as abc.....it tells me there are 2 people.......one(Jesus) was with the other(the Father)

Bidam: who dey twist..abeg go sleep joor..dey ogogoro is taking its toll on you.
Also tell me where your yahweh gave that invitation

Omen .............Yahweh wey don tell him people tire say na him be the only God and that they must worship only him.......ya eye pepper zrob am??.........Yahweh always reminds the isrealites that he is there GOD.......

But Jesus mouth we no ever hear that kin thing.......Jesus even come join worship the Yahweh well well..........

Bidam: repetition i don answer this queshion already go chew on what i said.
you ma sef.

Taaaa..........no isrealite would walk up to a man and worship him thinking he is the invisible GOD(Yahweh).......

Abi e tay wey them read exodus......??lol....the isrealites weren't trinitarians........they were not like you that loves the pagan trinity....

Bidam: He came in the likeness of men as a lamb what do you expect from Him? to declare publicly that He is God? remember God ways no be our ways o...

But we still see this LAMB in heaven calling the same Yahweh MY GOD ,meaning he wasn't the same as Yahweh.......and point of correction.....Jesus never came to the earth to declare he is GOD....he came to declare the Father and that he is the son of GOD and the annointed one of GOD......

You too lie!!!!!!!...........

Gods ways have been explained to us....only persons who have chosen to be stubborn struggle to see it.....

Bidam: and you are the most unbalanced,confused and shifting JW fellow i ever met as regard the OP.

I straight forward die.........

I know whom I worship...but you are confused as HELL......

I know Yahweh as the one God...and I know Jesus whom he sent......

So I know who is the messiah and I know his God who sent him.......

But you....confusion has overtaken you.....

Bidam: Taa!!! commot for road make peson hear word jare If Jesus is not God, then he would not accept worship nor would the Bible allow this to be insinuated. If he is not God neither can He be our Savior.

If He is God, then He surely is Lord (in Greek) which is equal to the Old Testament Hebrew of the name Yahweh and deserves our worship just as it is written.

Do you see how you mix up everything and then ended up confusing yourself........

How does one who is called Lord equals to the old testament hebrew name Yahweh??.....

How do you intend to twist the scriptures to support this mad doctrine called the trinity........

And please tell me where Jesus gave invitation to people to come worship him that he is God............

No right thinking Jew(except a drunk one) would give worship meant for Yahweh to another person........all Jews knew no one has seen the Father and so they know there God.......they even saw Jesus worship this invisible God......

You sef ehh.......

If Jesus was Yahweh he need not worship another Yahweh......

You are d most confused trinitarian I've seen......

Bidam: You dubiously did not explain the genesis 24 i quoted about worship and others..anywaz who cares about a parable in here when you guys dubiously say Jesus was actually telling a parable about lazarus and the rich man..that's by the way as you know already parables are not actual occurrences just sayings that conveys spiritual meanings..so abeg try another one..this argument is weak.

Lol........

Isn't proskneo what you want to eat this night??......I just provided a verse....I just want u to realize that I know when to literally use that word as worship when its in linked to Yahweh...because that is the one GOD I worship.......

See one of the scriptures u quoted....

Genesis 22:5

New Living Translation (©2007)
"Stay here with the donkey,"
Abraham told the servants. "The
boy and I will travel a little
farther. We will worship there,
and then we will come right back."


Please who was abraham going to worship??.......

The one invisible GOD the Father who no one hath seen or some physical fleshly man??......

Now you can understand what I mean by worship when its linked to Yahweh.......

shdemidemi: you are just a joker, some people just want to be heard. The man gave quotes that shows the Godhead and its attributes, yet you still find a way to jokingly play your way out of it.

1 John 5:7-8

King James Version (KJV)

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

what else are you here arguing about?

I don't see Godhead in this verse....abeg where e dey??....

Is blood,and water also part of the God head??...please what does Godhead mean??......

Bidam: Very hard for me to understand when you ain't backing it up with scriptural evidences bro..

See me se problem o........

Abeg wetin people wey dey live for heaven be??.....God is a spirit....what would his firstborn son be??........flesh??....