₦airaland Forum

Bidam: Nope i can't you tell me

E be like u loss your bible recently.....

Go and look at all the times Jesus cried ,petitioned and worshipped his Father.....

Please pick up your bible and read......

benalvino: lol bidam told you same thing ages ago... am his son too... but what am I? a human. angels are his sons too but they are not God nor humans. Jesus is son of God. then who is the son(jesus) of God?
man
angel
or a god?

just pick one easy or pick 2 if u want

Spirit son.......

Is this answer not enough??........

Bidam: SON abi son which one? pls differentiate..cos in my bible there is a big difference between father and Father.

Gods firstborn spirit Son........

and him name na Jesus......

The Father who is the Father of Jesus is Yahweh........

We have Yahweh and Jesus........

Papa and pikin.....

Dewze: I care less about what mathermatical principles are used to define the trinity. As I ve mentioned earlier I mathematics are not enough to define the boundaries of God. Frosbel first mention here the term 1+1+1=1. What I am againt is the arrangement of tht term. It is intentionaly misleading.

Well how else do you intend to fix the formular that wouldn't still insult the person of Yahweh and also logic and scriptural truth??.......

benalvino: this is an example for the word bring forth... I don't see why this is important to you the main post is there and with questions for u that u have never tried to answer

The post is already collapsed with Jesus been shown to have a beginning......

And you have evaded my questions that could have led to me giving you answers.......

What I'm happy for is that deep down in you you know the Father is greater than Jesus.......

Psalm 90:2
Good News Translation (GNT)
2 Before you created the hills
or brought the world into being,
you were eternally God,
and will be God forever.
<<


GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Before the mountains were born, before you
gave birth to the earth and the world, you
were God. You are God from everlasting to
everlasting.


English Standard Version (©2001)
Before the mountains were brought forth, or
ever you had formed the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting you are God.


Its amazing how in one breath benalvino would refute and miscontrue what brought forth and born means in proverbs 8:22-24.....

Dewze: this is only a confusion to those tht ve chosen to place God amongst the category of the 'cannots'.
God 'cannot' have a child.
God 'cannot' have a wife.
God 'cannot' lie.
God 'cannot' become flesh.
God 'cannot' be in two places in thesame time.
God cannot, cannot, cannot.
And this is a God tht is supposed to be omnipotent.
This itself is logicaly stupid.

Frosbel the fact that you will not agree on something does not mean that you cannot.

So can God lie??....

Bidam: ok tell us how you worship your yaweh?

Just how Jesus worshipped Him............

Hope you dey remember how Jesus worship am.........

Bidam: You see how you just dey dodge queshions with queshions..so typical of you..You already know who our Jesus is..Now tell us how your jesus look like maybe i fit turn JW..you never can tell na.

I don talk am tire say him be the son of God.......

Na ona dey run around like confused people......

benalvino: 20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that has life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moves, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Were where the living creatures??......weren't they created....??.....


Its funny how in this same instant you dey disagree with the word creation or created..........

Ok now let us fix this word in the genesis 1:20...

And GOD said,Let the waters born moving creatures.......



You are fighting against the word create in all its form.....

I dey laugh you.......


Always remember wisdom was born,concieved,formed,created......

You can't turn this ...you can't bro......

benalvino: Genesis 1:20-21

This is verse 20..

New International Version
(©2011)
And God said, "Let the water
teem with living creatures, and let
birds fly above the earth across
the vault of the sky."

New Living Translation (©2007)
Then God said, "Let the waters
swarm with fish and other life.
Let the skies be filled with birds
of every kind."

Abeg how does this scripture not agree with me that the fishes and other life including the water they are in is created....??...

E be like u dey drink alomo bitters o benalvino...........

The next verse come even cap everything....

◄ Genesis 1:21 ►
New International Version
(©2011)
So God created the great
creatures of the sea and every
living thing with which the water
teems and that moves about in it,
according to their kinds, and every
winged bird according to its kind.
And God saw that it was good.

New Living Translation (©2007)
So God created great sea
creatures and every living thing
that scurries and swarms in the
water, and every sort of bird--
each producing offspring of the
same kind. And God saw that it
was good.


Abi God no create the oceans and fishes again??......

Oboy!!!!!!!!

Bidam: Your stupidity is annoying..didn't you see my explanation for the word kiss

I saw it...you ended up been the stupid one who couldn't understand your own post.....

I want you to go back and know what worship means when it is directed to Yahweh.....


If not we go dey worship everything we see...until it sticks to your adamant brain that worship directed to Yahweh is different from the worship given to all others.....

Bidam: ... ok show me scriptural evidences where your yaweh looks like a man in scriptures..ayam waiting o.

Lol.......can Yahweh be said to be the image of GOD??...

Since ona senses don enter under ona shoe...

Bidam: .
......I said God is invisible..na true abi no bi true?

Na true......and Jesus is the image of that invisible God which no man has seen.......

Bidam: .

Did you fail to see where i mentioned the term figurative? The onus is on you to tell us who Jesus really is?

I should be asking you if you really know who Jesus is.........

Confused trinitarian....

frosbel:


What utter illogical nonsense.

My bro the nonsense don too dey glaring....

And meanwhile I thought it was 1 times 1 times 1=1.......

See formular na......

benalvino: facepalming my self right now

You dey face palm...you no how many face palm I don do for this thread??........

.....

No be created u see for the verse??.......

benalvino: So elaborate how it shut me in the foot?

Aren't you seeing the word created??......u need glasses??...

benalvino: hahahahahahahahaha oboy this is worst case scenario o... i no go explain this again believe what you want

Lol....why u dey laugh....

Jesus is not even suppose to be the image of another person.......its an absolute paradox to say Jesus never had a beginning when he is the beginning of another persons works and also the image of another person...

Make ona remove the trinity veil......

I asked you if the same can be refered to the Father whom you claim is the Christs co-equal...

Although few days ago you had agreed in you confused mind that the Father was greater than Jesus(but you stream lined it to only authority alone)......fraud alert!!!!!!.......

Can the Father be the image of God??.....

Bidam: did u not see where the scripture also said the word was God..why pick one and discard the other?

That scripture is figurative like i said..You implied it to be Jesus just like other scriptures implied God the Son. Jesus was mentioned here as a she.Is Jesus male or female?
because the Word became flesh..shikena!
That scripture even support our assertion that Jesus is the image of the invisible God.God is everywhere..If you go heaven no be God you go see..na Jesus.

See mumu...are you not the image of that same invisible GOD??....

Are you the invisible GOD??.....your mumu don too dey obvious for this thread.......

And talking about she.....

Let's try and see what the rock that Jesus was refered to in the new testament wasn't feminine...........

benalvino: He always takes words out of context lol. he thinks Jesus made up of pen and paper since he said the WORD of GOD as in bible is same with Jesus. lol Jesus had no beginning the Gospel was written after Jesus has created men... then those men wrote the Gospel inspired by God...

letters are also found in the bible are those God's words too?

the thing is they hardly think outside the box.

If Jesus never had a begiining he shouldn't and wouldn't be the image of another person.....why ona mumu dey spark like this.........??....

Please why is the scritpures called word of God??...why you dey evade this question like say na bokoharam??...

benalvino: brought forth are everywhere in the bible na wa to you oh. so if i write brought forth for letter i they send my girl friend i should link it to proverbs? you pick brought forth then throwaway the meaning of the verse saying it links to proverb.. lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! read the context again.

i beg you i don give you the reason tire... the problem is you have locked up everything out the only place you can learn is from where you have learnt all you are telling us now... that is why you keep asking same question over and over.

all the question i have asked you no one you answered you just keep asking me question back. and when i answer and repeat the question i asked you instead of you to answer you will use excuse and ask another question.

How can you drag the sense of anothe brought forth to a context that is talking about creation??...isn't that dumb??.....

The wisdom has already been called the beginning of Gods creation and you are insisting brought forth means another thing.....

Wisdom was born.........was formed....was made.........

Try again next time.....

benalvino: you want to leave cause you cant answer it... watchtower is not my problem but it their teaching you are clinging on and if am arguing with you am arguing with them also... just like you are arguing with me you are arguing with the trinity doctrine.

just choose one of the question its not dumb... either you go man angel or a god... you people already choose a god in your bible and also teach angel... am just telling you to pick one of what you already believe and you say the question is dumb. for 3 days been asking this question just for u to pick one no time u ever picked.

the authors of the scriptures are people like Paul, peter etc... the Word of GOD is what he used to Create everything... Now everything was created before the bible or Gospel of God came to be... I just they fear you for always finding a reason not to accept truth.

Really? He is the word of God from start and became flesh why should he be stopped calling the word?
you are bringing another inferior argument to Change the fact that Jesus is the word of God abi?
you tried to change the meaning of Worship earlier too...

I will challenge you to bring out the evidence of words they added to the bible. there are loads of Unitarian religion who go against the trinity... I don't know any that makes their own bible and start inserting words in it.

abeg is Jesus written? or a person? why you they bring silly questions all the time... the Bible is written word of God... in fact not everything that is in the bible is God's word... some of them are letters etc. I just don't understand you. in you put Jesus and the bible in same sense that means Jesus was written or is a drawing in a book and he died for us as a paper and ink.

we always tell you he is person... you are only being persistence you bring silly arguments to run from truth.

am not a fool we are made in is image but how does the bible describe Jesus? it says he is the 1 Hebrews 1:3 -- The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being are you the exact representation of God's being?

simple English told you exact representation of God being means? you they make me fear really. I should show you some more
The exact representation of God's being

This is an awesome statement. Jesus exactly fits who God is. Look at the words. "Exact representation" (NIV), "exact imprint" (NRSV), and "express image" (KJV) is charaktēr, "something produced as a representation, reproduction,"6 "the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every aspect" (such as a facsimile). The phrase spells out what Jesus was the exact representation of, that is, God's essential nature. "Being" (NIV, NRSV) and "person" (KJV) translate hupostasis, "the essential or basic structure or nature of an entity, substantial nature, essence, actual being, reality."
"I am the LORD; that is my name!
I will not give my glory to another
or my praise to idols." (Isaiah 42:

my fixation in NWT is not becoming serious am only showing what they are trying to hide... and again I tell you no matter what you should defend your beliefs when questioned if I say truth about the bible JW use because they are trying to teach what you should do is tell me why they put that and give me reason why it is wise to put the words there instead of you to turn against me and say am attacking it. that is the bible you people use and am asking why are they changing words are adding their own words?

Revelation 22:18-19 ESV
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Deuteronomy 4:2 ESV
You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you.

Proverbs 30:5-6 ESV
Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.


you are not quoting from it I know the question is what are their motives in changing words... you see what the bible says about adding to the bible?

try and answer the questions stop trying to run away from it.

And you still haven't given me the reason why the bible is called the word of God in all your rants......why is it called Gods word...

And as regards hebrews 1:3......

How does it not mean Jesus was created in the image of the invisible GOD??.......

It says Jesus is the express image of GOD

Your definition even helps me...

the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every aspect"......

Now Jesus is the precise reproduction of another person who ofcus he isn't ....abi??......

Who produced Jesus??.....that's the question......

is Jesus suppose to be in the image of another person if he isn't created by that person??.........

Hebrews 1:3 again shows Jesus was created by God........and so resembles GOD......but ofcus resembles God more than we humans who are also images of GOD.........

You can't be equal to the person who you are an image of.......

Your reflection in the mirrow is not equals to you or YOU.......

Now I would ask since sense is no longer common again....

Can the Father be termed the image of GOD??.....

benalvino: abeg you psalms 90;2
Lord, you have been our dwelling place in all generations. 2Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, you are God. 3You turn man to destruction; and say, Return, you children of men....
have nothing to do with proverbs read psalm psalms 90;1-3 you always take words out of context all the time na you go first call me fraud.

the questions you didn't answer still Who is prudence why did wisdom cry... how can GOD not have wisdom?

lol and you said created abi?
New International Version (© 2011)
"The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
King James Bible
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

American Standard Version
Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, Before his works of old.

Young's Literal Translation
Jehovah possessed me -- the beginning of His way, Before His works since then.
Tell me how GOD create wisdom without wisdom you no they answer you just they repeat same question with rephrasing.

i agree i am fraud because i am questioning what you believe in abi? same way you jump on peoples neck about birthdays and Christmas etc.

Please read verses 23/24 and stop this jump around........

After reading it tell me wether na possess them still possess wisdom.......

I have answered you that just as Jesus isn't the literal words coming out from Yahwehs mouth so also he isn't literally the intrinsic wisdom in God........he displays Gods wisdom.......he speaks Gods words.....what he learnt from God he spoketh......hope you know Jesus was and is a learner??........

I had asked you to give me the reason why the bible is called Gods word and you have refused..because you know therein lies the answer you've been waiting for......

I quoted psalm 90:2 to show you how the word brought forth and born was used back and front........

Bidam: Like i said earlier in this thread the word for worship in Greek is proskeneo the same word used for worship for the true God and for worship of false Gods. It does not mean one thing for one and another thing for the other. In Hebrew it is Shawkaw which means to prostate down bow worship (Gen.24:26, 48, 52 Gen. 22:5). In Psalm 2:12 it says, “Kiss the Son lest he be angry with you.” The word kiss is a term for worship (chashaq; a primitive root; to cling, i.e. join, (figuratively) to love, delight in... Strongs #2836)Even the muslims understand this concept borrowed from the Jews by their five daily prayers.

Isn't kissing to show respect and honour to Gods appointed king??........

because I know Yahweh is the Father is the only one God I know what worship means in different context.....you are the one not even understanding what you are trying to explain.....

If I kiss the son am I not showing honour and respect to him as Gods annointed king Just as the isrealites did to david,solomon and the rest??...

Bidam: You are simply a goat by twisting that scripture.let' go to Cornelius account and see how this your twisting was debunked.We see Peter in Acts 10:25-27 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” And as he talked with him, he went in and found many who had come together.

Cornelius fell at Peter's feet and worshipped. Peter says to him Acts 10:26 I am a man. Obviously this is worship not obeisance (as the Jehovah Witnesses hold to) or there would not be the response of his human nature. Peter the apostle refused worship because he worshiped the true God and knew he, himself, was only a man. Peter could not have worshipped Jesus unless he was more than a man.

Chei.......all u have done is help me prove what worship means when not applied to Yahweh.......

The phillipians you quoted just describes what all are doing to Jesus...........

Make you dey there dey mumu yourself......

Look at one of the scriptures you quoted that shot you in the foot....

Genesis 1:21....

New International Version
(©2011)
So God created the great
creatures of the sea and every
living thing with which the water
teems and that moves about in it,
according to their kinds, and every
winged bird according to its kind.
And God saw that it was good.


New Living Translation (©2007)
So God created great sea
creatures and every living thing
that scurries and swarms in the
water, and every sort of bird--
each producing offspring of the
same kind. And God saw that it
was good.

English Standard Version
(©2001)
So God created the great sea
creatures and every living
creature that moves, with which
the waters swarm, according to
their kinds, and every winged bird
according to its kind. And God saw
that it was good.

And yes he says the book of proverbs isn't a prophetic book....

I guess the psalms is also a prophetic book that contains info's about the son of GOD..........

Lmao.......

benalvino: Analysis PROVERBS 8:22-26
Proverbs 8:22-25 is an Old Testament passage ijawkid use to defend the created Jesus theory. It shall be demonstrated that this theory cannot be found in the passage. First, the entire argument rests on a presupposition. That is, it is assumed that Jesus is the "Wisdom" being mentioned here. The cross-reference (1 Cor. 1:24) is unrelated to Proverbs 8 (keep in mind that Proverbs is not a prophetic book but a book on wisdom - literally). To demonstrate its irrelevance to 1 Cor. 1:24, note that Jesus is also called the "power" of God. But Romans 1:20 calls the power of God eternal! Therefore, Jesus is eternal and not created. Such a relation is unfounded even though the latter citation suggests my position. Second, the ijawkid interpretation reads more into the wording then what is actually there. The texts says "brought forth" and not "created." That "brought forth" does not necessarily entail creation can be seen in texts such as Genesis 1:21; 24:23; 30:39; 40:10; Exodus 29:46; and Psalms 105:43. The connotation of "brought forth" in these texts is clearly "to bring out" or "to reveal." Thus it makes more sense in this context to read: "when there were no depths, I was revealed" (Prov. 8:24). It is simply a more likely translation. Besides, it would be absurd to conceive of a time when God was without wisdom. The passage must be referring to a revelation of that which is already there. Lastly, the word for "wisdom" in Proverbs 8 is in a feminine gender. Consider that Proverbs 7:4 calls wisdom "sister." It should also be mentioned that Jesus must live with someone named "prudence" (v. 12) in a house with seven pillars (9:1)! So the idea of Christ being mentioned here is incredible and unfounded, to say the least.

I still haven't gotten any answers whatsoever from ijawkid concerning prudence wisdom live with and also why wisdom cry in the streets, which house wisdom lived in. instead of him to answer the question he will employ evasive maneuver to dodge it by asking me question like is Jesus not a person despite telling him gazillion times that Jesus is a person distinct from the father.

Lmao......

You refused to quote psalms 90;2 to see brought forth......and to see where the mountains and the universe was born and made....

You are a day light fraud......



At proverbs 8:24 wisdom says I was born........

I was born......

You act like proverbs was talking about going to the market or doing some other thing....

Proverbs 8:22-30 talks about creation.....

Wisdom said he was the beginning of Gods creative works and that before the mountains came into existence he was born......

You and the site you copied this thing from are the frauds........

Bidam: A very big error from you as i have quoted several scriptures where Jesus was worshipped and he never condemned it. Even Paul the Apostle debunked this your error by saying in Philippians 2:9-11: “Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” To have every knee of every created thing bow to the Son is to worship

I hope you can see what worship means......bow down abi....adore the annointed one of God........

But abeg the final part now says all to the glory of the Father who is the one GOD.....

Now is Jesus the Father?.....

Oboy you have to be sure if you worship the Father in truth o.......

Pastor Kun: As christians we are not called to worship Jesus who is our High priest. We worship God through Jesus who is the intermediary between man an God.

This is why I have begging them to beckon on mary to become there mediator or mediatrix

Because it is obvious they are tired of Jesus being there high preist and mediator........

They now worship Jesus and shove the Father who Jesus is a go- between for....

The people don tire me.......

Bidam: but that is what 1 john 4 is talking about na..how can Jesus be flesh in heaven and still come to be flesh on earth..does it really make sense to you

E be like u dey mistake me for another person abi??.......

Is it not to accept Jesus as the son of God and the one God sent that one needs to be saved??........


So why u dey worry your life ....

Open a scripture where it says if one does not accept Jesus as God the son that person won't gain eternal life......

Waiting!!!!......

Benjamin: From time we have told you that Jesus is a person... I don't know what your point is.
You are making your self look desperate all the time... the father is also person... angel Gabriel is also person.
if I say you ask dumb question you will think am just dodging the question...
why is it that any time I ask you a question you just ask another question without answering me?

again
is Jesus a
man
angel
or a god

you don't ever want to answer this. he is the Only Begotten Son we all know that and you and I even satan are all sons of God. but the question is... is he a man, a angel or a god?

This your question would forever remain dumb......

benalvino: the scriptures is God's word written by men... But it is not the WORD in john 1:1 that became flesh... God never had a beginning and there was no time he didn't have is WORD or WISDOM. it was because adam and eve sinned that is why you have Genesis to revelation... before they sinned Through the WORD he created everything. And the bible clearly Stated the WORD is GOD.

Oh the scriptures is Gods written word,but at the same time Gods word right??.....

I want you to get the sense of what it means when Jesus is named Gods word or the word of God....and it seems you aint getting it......

Jesus being called Gods word and wisdom is not literally that it is Gods intrinsic wisdom or words from his mouth or Gods literal words??................

That is why I want you to tell me what the bible is doing as Gods word....until you get the sense you would keep asking this same yamayama question........

Jesus is still called the word of God in heaven...is he in Gods mouth??....

benalvino: and again I will keep saying this the fact that the watchtower alter the bible in various places that contradicts their beliefs is a good evidence of their motive. the question arise then... why add words to the bible?

he also Bears GOD.
like countless verses says also that WORD became Flesh.

Ask the KJV why they also added to the scriptures before you open your mouth and blame the watchtower......why are you even bothered about the watchtower sef.......na from NWT I dey quote from??......

And Yes the word of God became flesh.....not Gods physical spoken words......understand why Jesus is named Gods word ............

benalvino: I have already answered why the bible is called word of God... the Question is did the bible became flesh?

I want you to give me the reason why the bible is called Gods word.....abeg just give me the reason.........I need the reason why the bible is called Gods word like the way Jesus is called......

benalvino: Jesus is not just a person you can belittle him all you want but he is GOD. How about you read John 1:1 to 14.
you ask how Jesus is the image of God

But he is a person na........na you dey belittle the God and Father of Jesus.......

Is Jesus just the mere words of God in heaven now as we speak...is he not a seperate person from his God??.......

benalvino: Jesus is the image of the invisible God

1 Hebrews 1:3 -- The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

So you now know what Jesus being the image of God means........now from the bebrews you quoted is Jesus the God he is an exact representation of??

Now please answer why we are also the image of God??........

If I say you are a carbon copy of your Father what does it mean??.......

Simple english has now turned to mystery to trinitarians...

benalvino: 2 Corinthians 4:4 -- The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

3 Colossians 1:15 -- He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

if you cant grasp this passages then you cant grab anything.

No you are the on not grabbing anything.......

How can you be an or the image of God and not be a creation of God??....

Na you wey dey decieve yourself for here.......

benalvino: as you can see all along we have been telling you Jesus is a person
only for you to come back and ask is he not a person... I believe you cant think out of the box. not just you even my cousin.
all I see is steady and dumb question being ask just to dodge the ones you were asked. when Jesus call him self "I Am"... your bible translate it as "I have been" and many more verse where corrupted when Jesus calling him self God... when people worship Jesus your bible change to "obeisance" all this is to strip Jesus away from his deity.

We didn't dodge we explained tightly....

And Jesus in this I am state did not know when the end would come but only The Father the one GOD knew.........

Please rectify your thoughts and allign them to the scriptures........


I would show you translations that use words like bow down,revere,adore instead of worship just like the NWT......

Your fixation on the NWT is becoming too much.........

I am not even quoting from it.....

benalvino: still you argument land you in a pool of questions

1: Jesus is created and he created all things that means he created him self?
WTBS knows that so they insert the word [other]

2: Was there a time God was without wisdom?

Lmao.........watchtower is your problem.....let it be as u have chosen to let it be.........

Please have you accepted that this wisdom from God which is Jesus was created??......

You are fighting with serious truth here....

I feel like leaving this thread but u always tempt me to come back.......

Bidam: YOU i understand your dilemma..It's really a waste of time arguing with a JW.You are brainwashed already.

Thank you....please open just a scripture that says those who do not believe Jesus Christ is the almighty God or the same as the almighty God is the anti Christ??.......

Stop propagating lies........

Jesus came to tell us about the one GOD the Father whom no man hath seen..........

It is anyone who downgrades the Father and God of Jesus that is the anti Christ.......