₦airaland Forum

Bidam: Let's not even go into how God came into existence because that's where you are driving this conversation into.To begin with God is the existence Himself and there is no better explanation given that of John 1.The bible said His Word was Himself you either accept this explanation or call God a liar you don't reason that with human wisdom.His Word was inseparable from Him and His Word was with Him from the start. Everything that exist came into being through the Word of God; no other source of life exists. In His WORD was life, and this life manifested the knowledge of God and His kingdom to the darkened and confused minds of humanity.We all know that this Word has to become Flesh and dwell among men but it is rather unfortunate that though the light of this knowledge shines brightly those who choose to remain in a darkened state cannot see.It all boils down to choices really.

The scriptures says the word was WITH GOD

Proverbs have explicitly shown how these word of God,wisdom from God who is Jesus Christ was with GOD and was engaged in his Fathers creative works after he himself was created first...........

Now what you should be asking is why Jesus is called the word of GOD.......

Ask and answers would be provided........

Read the scriptures thorughly and see why Jesus is called the word of GOD.......

I hope you read revelation 19:13-15.......

Jesus is called that name for a reason and not because he was inside the stomach of God or in Gods wind pipe........

frosbel: The spirit of anti-Christ is actually the belief that Jesus Christ was not 100% MAN, he was instead 50% GOD and 50% MAN , it also suggests that all he did on earth was really play acting, he was all along speaking to himself, praying to himself, worshipping himself, asking himself ( also the father ) for help, raised himself from the dead etc.

Worse of all, it tells the horrible LIE that when Jesus was dead, only 50% of him was dead,meaning the resurrection was some kind of joke.

The Trinity is indeed anti-Christ.

They don't even know the implication of believing I this demonic doctrine called the trinity........

I doubt if right now they even know who Jesus really is and who the Father is......

They are so confused that even a new born child can see it.....

Bidam: People that deny the deity of Jesus Christ seek to bring Him down to their level; this is the spirit of antichrist. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. (1 John 4:1-10)


The issue of the deity of Christ as the only begotten Son of the Father is what separates true Christians from every cult, even those that may accept some of the Bible. It is also the issue that separates every other religion from true Christianity. That is the line that God has given us to test the spirits to see if they are from the true God or from the god of this world. Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. (1 John 2:22-23)

People that are offended when Jesus is called God do not know Him or His Father. If they think that they are honoring the Father by belittling His Son they are mistaken. Whoever honors the Son honors His Father also. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. (John 5:21-23) We are to honor Jesus in the same way that we honor His Father.

We can give no greater honor to Jesus Christ than to call Him God. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11) The word “Lord” is the Greek word kurios, it means supreme in authority, God, master. Every person will admit that Jesus Christ is Lord (God) sooner or later.Shalom.

Is Jesus the Father??...........

I don tire for all of ona.........


It is anyone who denies Jesus as the son of GOD that is doomed.......

Those who reject Jesus as GOD the son are doing well according to the scriptures...........

From your post even steven wonder can see Jesus the son of God was given what ever he has from The Father who is the one GOD and the GOD of Jesus.....

Stick to this straight away truth and stop confusing the hell out of yourself......

Revelation 19:13-15
New International Version (NIV)
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and
his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies
of heaven were following him, riding on white
horses and dressed in fine linen, white and
clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp
sword with which to strike down the nations.
“He will rule them with an iron scepter.” [a] He
treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath
of God Almighty.



Please is Jesus mere words in Gods mouth or a person??.........

I want you to put on your thinking caps and for once learn discreetly........

Do you see the names Jesus bears??.......

1..Word of God
2..King of kings

Is this not a person??.....

......

benalvino: Your problem is that you try to run away from the product of your belief... I mean the contradictions. Everyone watching this thread will know the question I just ask is the contradiction of what you believe...

Was there a time God was without wisdom? Till you answer this question your belief about proverb is not taken seriously...

can't you see that any time you try to twist scripture to fit your doctrine it contradict many things?

John 1:1 says the WORD is GOD you...
Instead of you to answer my question you are telling me if I know what the WORD of GOD is... Go to John 1:1...
Am still waiting for you to tell me how Your God was without wisdom and how he manage to create wisdom without wisdom. colossians made it clear that every creature every thing was made through the WORD and not a single thing has been made without the WORD...
Going by your stands then JESUS created him self... This are the dilemmas you can't run away from.

Lol.........keep drowning in your myseries.......

Oya answer me.......I want to try to help you understand what it means when Jesus is called the word of God.......

That is why I asked you an important question which I need your answers to.....

Why is the bible called the word of GOD or Gods word....

And may I ask you right now Jesus still bears the name word of GOD and we all know he is a person who has been exalted by GOD as king.......is Jesus not a person in heaven??.....is he in Gods mouth??.....

Please answer the first question I asked and stop this run arounds........

My happiness is you have seen that the subject under consideration was CREATED..........now answer my questions and let's close this thread......

benalvino: Bidam you see he is desperately taking words out of context and that's what they always do.
Everyone reading should be asking if there was a time God was without wisdom so without wisdom where did he get the wisdom to create wisdom?

How about the question he never answers... Who is prudence that wisdom dwells with?

Why did she(wisdom) cry out loud?
Which table did she(wisdom) set?

All this question he never answers in addition to if Jesus was created as a:
Man
Angel
A god
His bible say a god and there believes also says a angel but him no wan answer.

1: God created his wisdom when he was without wisdom

2: God created his WORD when he was without WORD

3: GOD use his word for every creation, not a single thing was made without the Word.

Therefore the word created him self?
no matter what you see even In the bible you won't accept it exam they put it in magazine or reasoning from the scriptures... Why not just through the bible away then. I am really sceptical now. Lol

Your questions are childish and should be ignored from hence forth........

You wanted to know if Jesus had a beginning or if he was created,an answer has been provided...a perfect one at that........now you ask if God was without wisdom before he created wisdom...isn't it obvious that the wisdom isn't Gods intrinsic wisdom?? .........

I remember I once asked you....

When it is said the scriptures is the word of GOD what does it mean??.....I can't remember if you ever gave me an answer..............


Well my job here is done......I shake my feet off this thread ...........

Bidam: Everything you quoted is still pointing the validty of what we have been telling you all along that you cannot separate God from his wisdom, knowledge and power..three different substance but one entity(source) God is the source of wisdom(Christ)that is never a creation .It is through wisdom(Jesus) that heaven and earth were created with other creatures .And that is why Jesus always make the statement "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE".“Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.” (John 14:6-10). As a human being where does your wisdom lies? is it in your body? or your mind?

We are all also in the Father and so possess Godly wisdom....we are all one with Jesus just as Jesus is one with the Father.......but Jesus is that number one progeny of GOD who has displayed Gods wisdom to the fullest and perfectly,the greater solomon...............

Proverbs has perfectly told us this wisdom was created.......Jesus had a beginning......that is just my aim on this thread....all the definitions that I have been projecting were perfectly defined in proverbs and all applying to Jesus to make john 1:1,colossians 1:15,revelation 3:14,john 6:57,1 corinthians 8:6 all ironed out and understood....

Chikena........

So no rigmaroling........

Should in case anyone is wondering how wisdom in verse 23 and 24 is born or brought forth please read psalm 90:2 and see what it means.... the earth and the universe were born,brought forth,created,formed and so was Jesus but him(Jesus) being the first of Gods creative works... ...

New International Version
(©2011)
Before the mountains were born
or you brought forth the whole
world, from everlasting to
everlasting you are God.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Before the mountains were born,
before you gave birth to the earth
and the world, from beginning to
end, you are God.

English Standard Version
(©2001)
Before the mountains were
brought forth, or ever you had
formed the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting
you are God.



Ona dey see am??.......

.......

My business with ona don finish....

If ona like make ona accept if ona like make ona repudiate am....na ona business......

I don leave the thread for ona.....

Should in case anyone is wondering how wisdom in verse 23 and 24 is born or brought forth please read psalm 90:2 and see what it means.... the earth and the universe were born,brought forth,created,formed and so was Jesus but him(Jesus) being the first of Gods creative works... ...

New International Version
(©2011)
Before the mountains were born
or you brought forth the whole
world, from everlasting to
everlasting you are God.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Before the mountains were born,
before you gave birth to the earth
and the world, from beginning to
end, you are God.

English Standard Version
(©2001)
Before the mountains were
brought forth, or ever you had
formed the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting
you are God.



Ona dey see am??.......

.......

My business with ona don finish....

If ona like make ona accept if ona like make ona repudiate am....na ona business......

I don leave the thread for ona.....

Bidam: you still are yet to tell us how Jesus was created in heaven whether as a man like adam or an angel. you just twisted Paul letter out of context to mean what he didn't even say..scriptures interpret scriptures..not just one verse out of context.

And what do you think I've been doing on this thread??....you think I've been using greek mythology to interprete verses..........

I want you guys to take a look at the bold definition of what it means when it is said Jesus is the beginning of Gods creation.......

Instead of this hide and seek face the truth and move ahead....

.........

Please let everybody read bernimoores reply to benalvino and tell me if benalvino was not crushed on the last thread only coming here to yap about his own subjective definition of firstborn while evading Jesus being the beginning of Gods creation and identified as the wisdom mentioned in proverbs 8:22-30 which was created,formed,born,brought forth,produced.....




Did God have to create his word?
yes, his word testifies to that,
see it
Proverbs 8:22-24
New International Version
22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first
of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23[b]I was formed long ages ago[/b]
at the very beginning, when the world came
to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I
was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing
with water;
who is speaking here, lets see
in verse 12 of same prov 8,
it started like the ' i wisdom' claims the
passage,
and who is beign reffered to as wisdom
personified' in the bible, jesus christ,
lets see that;
1 Corinthians 1:30
New King James Version
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who
became for us wisdom from God—and
righteousness and sanctification and
redemption—
1 Corinthians 2:7
New King James Version
7 But we speak the wisdom of God [/b]in a
mystery, the hidden wisdom which God
ordained before the ages for our glory,
wisdom speaks;
proverb 8:22
New International Version
" The LORD brought me forth as the first
of his works, before his deeds of old;
New Living Translation
" The LORD formed me from the
beginning, before he created anything else.
English Standard Version
“The LORD possessed me at the beginning
of his work, the first of his acts of old.
The LORD made me at the [b]beginning of His
creation, before His works of long ago.
International Standard Version
" The LORD made me as he began his
planning, before his ancient activity
commenced.
NET Bible
The LORD created me as the beginning
of his works, before his deeds of long
ago.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Lord Jehovah created me at the
beginning of his creation and from before
all of his works.”

Bidam: and what was my reply? I said the father is the source. You don't use biology to explain spiritual truth.someone even gave an illustration that you guys always think in terms of 1+1+1 instead of 1x1x1.

Source??...and from no where Jesus started calling him(the Father) my God in heaven just as u do too on earth.......

Ona head dey shake well well.......

And it didn't strike your memory that God created Jesus that is why he is Jesus' God and Father at the same time.....

Bidam: @benalvino Your opening post should set thinking men thinking. God bless you.

See this one wey dey stammer when them ask am why the Father na the GOD of Jesus.........

benalvino: why I go run... he came asking questions I have answered I told him to go back and read... he was actually the reason I did this thread and after he read it he couldn't say anything. I believe he was convinced and understand what firstborn means in the context that passage in the bible...

And then you skipped Jesus being the beginning of Gods creation......

Your wayo no get limit.......

Which yeye context u dey talk about??.......

......

Jesus is both the firstborn of Gods creation and the beginning of Gods creation.....

Combine the 2 and tell me if you explained anything......plus image of God u flop big time....go clean up your messy definition of Jesus being the image of God....

Make u dey there dey decieve yaself........

when pride and bile for JW's don fade from your eye na only u go go back go ruminate on those clear words from the scriptures....

Remember I had blocked all the scriptures you tried to wayoly use to state Jesus never had a beginning.......

Make you,bidam,itsfact and the rest chop the thread........

Until any of ona tell me wetin Jesus be beginning of Gods creative works and also image of God I no even suppose dey answer ona..........

Poster you forgot to use egg.....

And yes the triad gods of the egypt,assyria and babylon....

Ona just dey waste my strenght for this thread...I get exam to write.......

You guys have no iota of respect for the Father and God of Jesus.....

Bidam: You did not address this issue at all..it is either you are being silly or playing dumb..don't forget other viewers would love to hear your views on this issue thanks.

Lol......get away from this thread.......ona run from the other thread come dey create another one all to dodge truth wey dey face ona........

I dare you to go back to that thread where u said I ran away from until you guys were exposed completely.....

As for benalvino him run leave benimoore......

Bidam: Just accept the bible explanation that He is God the Son.then we won't argue anymore.

If the bolded dey exist for the scriptures make I die now now.....

benalvino: abeg that's not the question...
man
angel
a god

pick one

U don answer my question??.....

John 17:3 should answer your question......


If Jesus being the spirit son of God(firstborn) isn't enough then close this thread.......

benalvino: there is nothing there to explain you just finding argument. the original post I didn't cant be debunked till you point out the flaws in it no worry.

Lol.......you were debunked a longtime ago on that other thread.......

And like I pointed out your definition of Jesus been the image of God is completely flawed........

I want to hear you speak the truth.......

Define it again

Itsfacts: your bible said jesus is a god so pick number 3

And then you go belleful??.......

benalvino: if he is Gods son what is he? we know
man
angel
or a god... we are all sons of God

he is the firstborn son of GOD......spirit son to be specific......

Son of GOD oooooooo...........

Itsfacts: @ijawkid you are fueling my fear for JWs. you folks are so afraid of the truth or being tested

Oboy you have nothing to add to this thread.......please help benalvino explain why Jesus is the image of God just like us......

benalvino: Jesus is not God so what is he?
man?
angel?
a god?

which one?

He is Gods son.......Spirit son.....

Abi Jesus no be son of God again??......smh!!!!......

benalvino: you just don't agree to anything. assignment for you... bring one verse that Jesus called mary mother... its not even important.

you are saying Jesus is not God am asking you if he was a man in heaven before he created everything. na you they ask why who they do like this.

Ahhhh....you wan give me assignement........

Na ona dey run around say Jesus wey come earth na God in flesh....what does that make mary....make I remind you why the trinity dey even exist.......

Mary is now the mediator between Christ(which is your God by the way) and men.......

You think mary is been prayed to for fancy.......

And I have answered you that Jesus was Gods firstborn spirit son before he descended to the earth.....

Firstborn,firstfruit,beginning of,image of,begotten.......

solidbroda: Shakabula, lashi tah mah. Lesko lesko takaka remu remu. Orotosonto, orotosonto, sontooroto, shikababa, shikab ribaba, laskababa.

Since I have been blessed with speaking in tongues, iv not been able to interpret them. Pls help!!!

......

And you are still quoting romans 9:5...........

Jesus is eternally blessed God but does not know when the end would come...how wonderful for an eternally blessed GOD..........

Oboy if you still dey hold on to romans 9:5 then you're on a very long thing.....very long one...serious long one......

You can keep worshipping the high priest,servant,apostle,son, of God ...na you sabi.......

benalvino: I have told him catholic is different from roman catholic several times...

mary is not the mother of God except you are saying Jesus is a man in heaven before he created everything. Jesus is GOD.
Consider how Jesus explained His divine nature. When addressing the Pharisees, He asked them: “‘What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?’ They said to Him, ‘The son of David.’ He said to them, ‘How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord’.... If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?’” (Matthew 22:42-45). The Pharisees failed to answer the question correctly because they were thinking about the physical nature of the Messiah. While Christ was a physical descendant of David (cf. Luke 1:32; Matthew 1:1), according to His divine nature He did not have a physical father, since He Himself is before all (John 8:58). In the same way that David could not be the father of the divine Messiah since he called Him “Lord,” Mary cannot be the “Mother of God” since she calls Him “Lord” in Luke 1:38,46-47. The truth is, as Paul explains, “according to the flesh, Christ came” through the patriarchs, David, and, yes, Mary, but according to His deity, He is the “eternally blessed God” who is over all (Romans 9:5).

Lol....but Jesus is GOD in flesh.......


Therefore mary is the mother of GOD....abi no be mary born GOD in flesh??.....

Why ona dey behave like this??....

Oya confess that Jesus is not GOD in flesh.....

ice234: I am an Anglican and not a roman catholic.

There is difference btw catholic and roman catholic ok...
I believe in the holy catholic faith and not in Roman catholic faith.....
I am an anglican by choice

Ok o........

ice234: I never said mary is the mother of God pls.
Quote me if am wrong.

Aren't you catholic anymore??....

Or abi these things you write u just copy am from somewhere come paste??........

truthislight: The beast is symbolic Just as the false prophet is symbolic.

Also, the word grave and death are symbolic in that literal grave (some people grave is in water, mountain, moon) cannot literally be burnt in literal fire.

But means that there will be no more death hence no more grave.

Same thing with false prophets of God as in false christian religion.

This ^ false prophet go hand in hand with the beast, is the beast a literal beast ? No.

If you say the beast is literal, then you are saying a literal beast is the one giving the mark of the beast.

So, the fire is a symbol of God removal of the afore mentioned things permanently.

"And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh." (Revelation 19:19-21).

the beast was "cast alive" into the lake of fire.

Is that ^ literal ?

If it is literal, then the false prophet is literal, its like saying the dragon of Revelation is a literal dragon.

If it is not literal, why conclude that the fire is literal ?

"And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Revelation 20:9-10).
.....................

Now, teacher, answer this questions:

1. Can a literal fire burn or pained satan the Devil ?(a spirit being)

2. If it is not a literal fire, How can it burn and torment the human in vers 9 ?

3. Which is it really, is the fire coming down from heaven to "devour", or it is a lake of fire that people will be "cast" into ?

4. What does devour mean as it is used in vers 9 ?

Thank you in advance, am waiting.

EUREKA!!!!!!.....

ice234: I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

And you also believe mary to be the mother of GOD......thank you...........

Please kindly tell benalvino to do the same.....