₦airaland Forum

Mr anony: But the bible teaches that they are 3 persons yet one God

Ahhh...please where??......can you show me a verse.....just one??.......3 persons but not 3 gods is just out right wayo and false.....

Mr anony: Interesting, so it is now strawman time abi. I said God in human form can die as a man. How does that contradict God's eternal nature?

God in human fo®m??.........and so God in human form can die??.......meaning your proposed GÓd in human fÓrm Ísnt God at the end of the day because God cannot die.......it would be like saying God in human form can LIE......hope you are getting my point...........

Mr anony: this is an example of you being unnecessarily dubious

1. How did Philip teleport to Azotus?

2. Ezekiel 37

3. This is just you purposely playing dumb. Are you saying that because Jesus didn't specifically mention blood, therefore blood is drained out of resurrected bodies? What kind of dirty pretentious argument tactic is that?
Let us test your argument:
In Matt 16:17, people didn't have bones because Jesus said to Peter "flesh and blood has not revealed this unto you"
in Joel 2:28, people had neither bones nor blood because God was pouring out His Spirit upon all flesh only
In Genesis 2:23, Eve is drained of blood because Adam only called her the "flesh of his flesh and bone of his bones.

See how silly your argument is looking now? Please try and argue honestly it doesn't help an argument if the two sides are actively and deliberately trying their best to misunderstand each other.

Ahhh!!!!........benalvino insisted that the glorified body of Jesus was flesh and bone.......and so questions had to follow....

1...But may I ask you....are you insisting Jesus had blood running through his veins??.......

Its time for you to answer some questions........

2...1 corinthians 15 did affirm that when adam was created he became a living SOUL(animal,flesh and blood)....so I don't have to start thinking tOo much to later see that eve had blood running through her veins......

And for your info my arguments aren't silly....they are infact solid.....

Itsfacts: The question is who is prudence... Wisdom dwell with prudence who his prudence? Is mother?

Why don't you study hard and find out who prudence is..........is it my job to find that out for you??.......our discuss is on the trinity and if Jesus had a beginning......and the area of concentration is proverbs 8:22-30......

Mr anony: I don't see how your rant here applies to anything I hold. I have never said that The Father and The Son and the Holy Ghost are the same person rather that they are 3 persons and yet one being. God

By the way I noticed you have started your version jumping tricks again. Are you interested in an honest discussion about the nature of God?

The bolded is where the ¶roblem lies......why can't the 3 persons be 3 Gods??.......

We've discussed the trinÍty extensively on so many occasions here.........what more is knew......??.....I can remember the last time we discussed you said God can die......smh!!!!!......

Itsfacts: This statement is by far the worst in this thread... Gods wisdom is eternal that is his quality part of him... We are created we dont exist in God like is wisdom or word or hand or mouth. We are a creation. Benalvino ask who is prudence that Jesus dwell with?

There says wisdom was created and was the beginning of Gods creation and infact the first of Yahwehs creative works.......

My pÓint is ÉveÑ the expression beginning of..........apply it to Jesus as mentioned in revelation 3:14....if you like believe wisdom in prverbs 8:22-30 isn't Jesus that wouldn't be much of my problem......

I just want you guys to know Jesus had a beginning.......and when you guys accept that hard and straight forward truth the trinity would then be smashed to pieces completely......

It is left for you guys to choose lucid truth or cling to the trinity which makes a mockery of God the Father......

Itsfacts: Ijawkid who is the prudence?

You want to know prudence??.....why don't you study more and find out.......

Our discuss here is strictly about Jesus......if after reading proverbs 8:22-30 one says it has no dealings with Jesus then that person has to be a wayo person..........

I mean all that was mentioned about wisdom is an exact replica of what you read in john 1:1,colosians 1:15-19,revelation 3:14, about Jesus...etc.........

1....Wisdom was the beginning of Gods creative works...compare with revelation 3:14

2...Wisdom was the first Óf Gods creation.....rÉad that ya colossians 1:15-16...

3....Wisdom was beside God as a craftsman...(Clearly shows Jesus took part In creation as Gods agent....)......

WhÀt was sÀid about wi§dom that doesn't apply to Jesus is what you should point out....

striktlymi: Jesus demonstrated that he can live without committing sin but 'man' on the other hand has shown repeatedly that we are only too capable of committing sin.

And this was confirmed when he learnt obedience in all ramifications....

And men who have imitated Jesus to be faithful to God even when imperfect would never rebel against God when they turn out perfect.......

striktlymi: The bold suggests that there won't be 'total free-will' because from the statement we can't choose to do wrong in the life after.

All I meant from the bolded is that those in heaven would have been so refined that rebelling against no longer becomes an option....I mean take a look at individuals who died as matyr§......what again in this life and that to come would make such ones rebel against God in the heavens when they didn't when Ón earth(baTtling with imperfection and attacks from satan who would no longer exist).........

That's what I mean by the bolded....these individuals have built up there resistance to sin and Jesus who is the author of there faith must have solidified there faithfullness to GOD..........

No shakingd for there side....

nlMediator: So why don't you explain to us in a few simple sentences how Jesus can be the very source of life and not be God? Your co-confederates were stumped by the question (especially after admitting that God is the source of life), so feel free to help them.

"But you killed the very Source (the Author) of life . . . ." Acts 3:15 AMP.

"You killed the author of life . . . ." Acts 3:15 NIV.

"You killed the author of life . . . ." NLT

Smh.....

Acts 3:15
Good News Translation (GNT)
15 You killed the one who leads to life, but
God raised him from death—and we are
witnesses to this.

This problems exist when you don't take time to study scriptures thoroughly.......

Have you forgotten how Jesus said "" I am the way,the truth and life,no one comes to the Father except through him"".....

Have you forgoTten??....

How does Jesus being the author of life turn out to be Jesus is the source of all life when Jesus himself depends on the Father to stay alive........

John 6:57 has been quoted clearly but you ignore it........

Smdh!!!!!.......

twosquare: And calling Jesus Michael The archangel is d worst aspect of ur argument... I can't but Is like comparing Goodluck Jonathan 2 Generals we have in d Nigeria army. Don't u knw hw organized Heavenly stratas are? If humans can decentralized responsibilities, hw much d kingdom of God.we have beings who are in charge of affairs in d kingdom.Michael is an archangel...who is meant 2 coordinate dis,beings....Jesus was worshipped and is still being worshipped.. all beings in heaven did.michael is like a commander..just like Joab was in d days of David...

I think maybe you need to visit the thread where the arch angel micheal issue was discussed extensively just as we are deliberating on the trinity on this thread.......

You were M.I.A when that heated discussion was on....if you want I could provide the link....

twosquare: I can't argue with u...dat is it....if u don't knw u ursef u are 3 in one...then folks no nid 2 xplain 2 U again... even God use little tinz 2 teach us..even d egg dat u do eat is 3 in one...so y all d babbling....and ur own version of d bible is d truth... pls tell us d name.. y others are adulterated ones.....even d mormons believe theirs is d True version... so u got no point dear.

What are you on about.....all the available renderings explicitly shows who those seven spirits are.........read the last part of revelation 1 and let us rest.......

How can you come up here and say the seven spirits mentioned in revelation is the holy spirit in a bid to show case the holy spirit as a person in heaven because you do know there isn't any evidence..............

striktlymi: You do not believe anyone would commit sin in heaven...I believe this too but the question remains: will God allow our free-will, knowing full well that with free-will the capacity to commit sin is always there?

well I think the best question you should ask is:::::: can Jesus one day sin against God??....

striktlymi: Disobedience is not an option? Will this be as a result of a 'partial free-will' or we still have the capacity to choose between good and evil but decide to choose good for all eternity?

There would be no evil to even choose.....there woud be just one option....doing good and obeying the Father.........

striktlymi: Note too that a good man according to Sacred scriptures is capable of committing sin seven times a day.

That's an imperfect man bro....imagine a man who was once imperfect,in that state of imperfection he stuck to doing the will of God and his Son,later on that person is rewarded with eternal life and made perfect,please tell me how can such man think of sin.......

striktlymi: But still we are talking about Eternity...will trust be enough to keep someone from committing sin if he wants to?

Yep if you ask me....these tested and trusted individuals have shown beyond reasonable doubt that they are ready to obey God for all eternity......that is why the struggle for life eternal is not one easy one....it is arduous....

striktlymi: Does being refined mean being without the capacity to commit sin?

I would have to agree...one who has been refined is made extra strong and dogged in his service to God.....the thought of rebellion would not even come up into the minds of such ones because they've worked so hard to win that prize........

twosquare: Abeg,go siddon...d more u think u knw, d more u realise u don't knw anything.instead of u arguing blindly...y nt humble urself and ask 4 knowledge......dont b surprised that u may b carrying a wrong knowledge just saul of Tarsus b4 He met d Lord. Wat is so new abt dat....dia are some realm u hav nt ventured in...so allow those who hav talked and stop babbling as if u knw it all..

Please read revelation 1 and 2 to see who the 7 spirits were......I don't need to go explore the spirit realm for that......

obadiah777: YEAH KEEP YOUR TIME TRAVELLING MACHINE. ITS ABOUT TO GET NUKED IN ARMAGEDDON

Lmao........

Itsfacts: I dont see why benalvino example won't hold. One man from one city appeared in another. How can't that be valid? Did he use horse or cars? Did he trek?

The man was transported just as elijah was transported.........

We need a locked room scenario......

frosbel: Though I am 100% sure that Jesus Christ is not Almighty GOD , let's be clear about one thing, Jesus Christ rose again bodily not in spirit.

He is 100% flesh and bones as per :

"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” - Luke 24:39

The questions I'm asking which are sincere is :::

1...How could he have passed through a locked room??..

2..How would those who were decapitated,bomb blasted,maimed and amputated go to heaven??...would they just have there bloods drained and then off to heaven with there perforated,maimed and splintered flesh and bones??....

3...What about those who are flesh already who would witness the end come and have to change bodies to go to heaven??.....why the need for the change of body and to what body??...remember these ones wouldn't even experience death so as to beg for ressurection.....if there is a need for a change would they just have there blood drained off and then off to heaven since they have there flesh and bone intact??.....

These are questions begging for answers........

benalvino: I have giving you example through the bible concerning the locked room issue... all you beliefs about resurrection are not biblical... Where did it say he passes through wall? where did it say he materialized? where did it say God disposes his Body?

didn't Corinthians tell you about the transformation? haven't you seen that we will have the Glorious body? with the power of God in you why cant you stand heaven?

did Jesus lie before his death "destroy this temple and I will raise it up"?
did he lie to his disciples "I have not a spirit... spirit don't have flesh and bones"?
why cant he just say I materialized?
what did the angel tell them when they saw an empty tomb?
did he say God has dispose the body, Jesus is now a spirit?

where is all this beliefs coming from?

And your bolded answer didn't explain Jesus passing through a locked room to see his apostles.......we need an example....your earlier example does not fit......

And tell me how a bombed or decapitated individual would have a glorious flesh and bone body.....please fill me in.....

As regards Jesus' body you can ask God what he did with that of moses.......was it ever seen??.....that's not even the issue here.......

1 corinthians 15 explains further......

37 When you sow,
you do not plant the body that will be, but just
a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
38 But God gives it a body as he has
determined, and to each kind of seed he gives
its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same:
People have one kind of flesh, animals have
another, birds another and fish another.
40 There are also heavenly bodies and there
are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the
heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor
of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun
has one kind of splendor, the moon another and
the stars another; and star differs from star
in splendor.
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the
dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is
raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor,
it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it
is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body,
it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a
spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first
man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last
Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did
not come first, but the natural, and after that
the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust
of the earth; the second man is of heaven.
48 As was the earthly man, so are those who
are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man,
so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And
just as we have borne the image of the earthly
man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the
heavenly man....
________________________________

We are all humans made of dust but for those who would live eternally in heaven they would need to change to heavenly bodies......would you tell me Jesus never had a heavenly body before he decsended??.....and once again the distiction is made between a heavenly body(spirit) and an earthy one(dust comprised of flesh and blood).....

While adam became a living being or animal(body type) Jesus became a life giving spirit


It is either heavenly or earthly body....there isn't any intermediate body...it is either one or the other........

Except we've got extra terestial beings roving other planets......

benalvino: find where it says Jesus materialize abeg.. did the body they were in live for ever? na wao...

Passing through a locked room shows he had the ability to materialize and dematerialize just as spirit angels did back then.......

And the question I asked is so rational.......

Those who would follow the pattern of Jesus' ressurection would they be in heaven with there maimed and decapitated body parts all drained off blood??.......

Is it the physical body that is the issue or the life of that person??.......

Think of exploded persons my brother who have the hope of going to heaven.........

And it is either one is human or he isn't .......

benalvino: 2 wisdom now?
you still didn't answer the question... why does he have to create another wisdom?
“I, wisdom, dwell with prudence....The LORD possessed me at the beginning of
His way....From everlasting I was established....”
who is prudence that wisdom dwell with?

If wisdom had to be created (was “produced”), are we to conclude that God had no wisdom until a certain time when He created it? It is obvious that God wouldn’t be God if there was a time when He was without wisdom. Therefore, we must recognize that wisdom is just as eternal as God is. In fact, the same Hebrew word translated “everlasting” or “time indefinite” (owlam) which is used to express God’s eternal nature at Psalm 90:2 is used to express the eternal nature of wisdom at Proverbs 8:23. The New American Translation better translates these passages as it states that God “possessed” wisdom, rather than “produced” wisdom. These passages reveal how God brought forth wisdom to take part in His creation

He had no beginning. (Isaiah 9:6, Micah 5:2, John 1:1, Heb. 7:3, Isaiah 48:12 with Rev. 22:13).

Please oo...the same word used for produced was the same word used for the production of the earth in the psalm 90:2 you quoted..........

New International Version (©2011)
Before the mountains were born or you
brought forth the whole world, from
everlasting to everlasting you are God.

God did create or produce or bring forth this wisdom in this context as the first of his works........the beginning of his works....

Infact here this again in verses 24-25

24 I was born before the oceans,
when there were no springs of water.
25 I was born before the mountains,
before the hills were set in place,


this wisdom in question was born

Using possessed is not consistent with the next verses.........

And please micah 5:2 does not say Jesus has no beginning......

Now I remember ....I was suppose to give an exposition on micah 5:2 but forgot.......don't ever go near micah 5:2 to prove Jesus had no beginning......

And hebrews 7:3 does not prove Jesus never had a beginning..if not we would apply that to melchizedek..abi do we have an extra person who had no beginning??...you better study more to understand hebrews 7:3...doesn't melchizedek have parents??..

And isaiah using first and last for Yahweh does not mean the same thing when used for Jesus...stop being lame.....

striktlymi: I believe Jesus is the ideal model and he accomplished a lot by his coming, death and resurrection but do we say that until he came, Angels like Michael still had the capacity to be rebellious?

God has already done the seperation process......the war in heaven has jettisoned all rebels and God knows that the remaining ones(his spirit sons) who have stood faithful all through satans gra gra in heaven would stick to God for all eternity..........even the other angels in heaven underwent serious temptations from satan.......

All angels and Jesus himself have all been tempted and those who have passed that test are meant to stay for all eternity....
I don't envisage another renegade squad in heaven after Christ must have handed over rulership to God the Father........

striktlymi: Do those who finally make heaven have the freedom to choose whether to follow the example of Christ or not? Or at least would they have the capacity to say NO?

Those who make heaven have already here on earth chosen to follow Christ and have been tested,some even to the point of death......if on earth with all the weaknesses they summounted temptations or fought against the rebellious spirit they would never waver in heaven......

They would never say NO......No way!!!...

striktlymi: The bold still brings us to the same ish...if Lucifer can want worship, what stops Michael or any other person who makes heaven from wanting worship along the line? Eternity is indeed a very long time and it is said that change is the only constant thing...

angels who had stayed steadfast for aeons of years through out satans rebellion would never and can never be presumpteous....like I said earlier,everyone(the almighty excepted) has faced satans temptations.......they've all been tested and those who scaled through are trusted.....

striktlymi: If we have the right to choose between following the precedence of Christ or not, won't it be possible that we just might decide not to follow it at some point if we make heaven?

Lol....NO way.....all those who remain in heaven are refined........No going back....

striktlymi: Or is it that like Lucifer who got punished for his disobedience, judgment will be swift in heaven...anyone who commits sin will be sent out?

Lol........no one would go on disobeying......those days of disobedience would be a thing of the past......remember every servant of God has learned obedience in one way or the other.......refinement!!!......they are no longer Just created beings,but rather refined ones.......

striktlymi: If this is so, then can we not say that the promise of Eternal life is partial to the extent that one only make heaven and continue to be in heaven if and only if he continues to be good on Earth and in heaven?

I even forgot to add that those on the new earth would also be persons who have been refined..........

striktlymi: Yes you did

Did I try again.....

benalvino: Philippians 3:21
Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 20For our conversation is in heaven; from where also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like to his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things to himself.

there are other verses in the old testament that talks about bones coming together during resurrection... so don't worry our body will be transform and not disposed. graves will open bones will come together... not like the spirit will just start popping up... if that is the case no need for grave to open.

And weren't the flesh and bone bodies of the angels who decsended in the past glorified bodies??.....weren't those bodies special and different from the flesh and blood which Jesus had before his death??.........

Now let me bring this up.......

If those who would go to heaven would follow suit as did Jesus can we then assume that those who died as matyrs,who were beheaded,who were amputated whose bodies were blown up in bomb blasts would go to heaven with those same mamed and decapitated body parts but blood drained out of them??..........

And like I said no human in the past with the help of the holy spirit passed through locked rooms........

Jesus was not human before he descended and so he isn't after his ressurection and ascension back to heaven.............

benalvino: if God doesn't have wisdom how can he create anything? or how can God create wisdom without wisdom? I don't want to answer it cause it is ridiculous...

And did that proverbs tell you God never had his own intinsic wisdom??.....there is talking about another wisdom which was the beginning of Gods ways,the first of Gods creative works...........there talks about wisdom which God was fond of and who stood side by side with God as a craftsman.....

Even if you have to run away from that verse,the main point which I would want to extract out is the definition of the expression "beginning of""............which shows wisdom been created or produced as Gods first work.........

benalvino: problem is you seem to force meaning into scriptures...
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said

his body = temple... body falls, temple falls... body rise temple rise... that is what its about... you don remove the body and say only the temple rise lmao... when we know the body is the temple... in this case you cant separate both... it says resurrect him from what you presented... it didn't say resurrect the temple. thing is the body is a symbol of temple of God because the Holy Spirit dwell in it.

where did the bible say he pass through walls? ok let me answer it anyway
The spirit of God can transport a person from one place to another without ever having to walk through a wall. Look at the story of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch. In Acts 8:39 and 40 it says "Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip was found at Azotus..." Philip was snatched away by the spirit of God and found at another city. Was Philip a human when the spirit picked him up and brought him to another city? Since God's power can take a man from one spot to another, Jesus' sudden appearing in a room didn't prove he wasn't human anymore than Philip's being caught by the spirit was proof that Philip was a spirit.

And the temple of his body was the spiritual temple of GOD..was I wrong when I made that statement??......Jesus sacrificed human flesh is not what saved mankind...it was his blood which was poured out.......

And Yes Jesus being ressurected was the ish and not the punctured body he showed them.....

And how do we know this temple was more of a spiritual one is that we are all part of that body(spiritual temple).......I don't see me or you clinged to Jesus physical perforated body.....uh??.....or abi you get Jesus body attached to your own...??......

The temple of his body was Gods spiritual temple of which Jesus is the high priest..........

And I know Gods spirit was able to transfer people in the past through open space .....what did not happen was for servants of God dis-appearing or passing through a locked room...........if you have any experience in the bible please relate it.........

And once again Jesus wasn't human after his ressurection.......the angels who came down and materialized were flesh and bone.....

Try to figure that out bro.....

benalvino: did Jesus lie when he said he will raise up his body? did he lie when he says spirit don't have flesh and bones? if your answer is no... then you have contradicted your self.

The body of Jesus signifies the temple of GOD and not Jesus' actual physical body with which he died with......

And how did he raise it up??...

We let scriptures explain itself....

Through his obedience and total submission to his GOD and Father...and take note:: it was Jesus' obedience that made God listen to his out cries and supplications and also God saved Him by ressurecting him..after Jesus' ressurection Gods spiritual temple was activitated with the ressurected Jesus appointed as the high priest....

So Jesus' obedinece till death/ his being ressurected by God = temple of God been raised up(no longer the physical ones the Jews were worshipping)....
___________________________
Let me quote all these from hebrews 5:5-9...

5 In the same way, Christ did not take upon
himself the honor of being a high priest.
Instead, God said to him,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.”
6 He also said in another place,
“You will be a priest forever,
in the priestly order of Melchizedek.” [a]
7 In his life on earth Jesus made his prayers
and requests with loud cries and tears to God,
who could [/b]save[/b] him from death. Because he was
humble and devoted, God heard him. 8 But
even though he was God's Son, he learned
through his sufferings to be obedient. 9 When
he was made perfect, he became the source of
eternal salvation for all those who obey him,
________________________

There we go: Gods spiritual temple=Jesus' body which was re-installed/re-activated after Jesus' ressurection...and the Jesus being the high priest...

And my question still stands...how could Jesus have passed through thick wall??....that's a food for thought..

_________________________

And to your flesh and bone answer.....

Angels who materialized and dematerialized in the past presented themselves as flesh and bone.....

For the fact Jesus didn't even have blood running through his veins showed he wasn't human after his ressurection.........

benalvino: in this verse it compares Adam becoming a living soul with Jesus becoming a life-giving spirit. When did Adam become a living soul? Was it at his resurrection? your answer is NO!!!

Then this verse isn't talking about Adam's or Christ's resurrection. It says Adam became a living soul, that's his creation. Also Jesus became a life-giving spirit. What does life-giving spirit mean? Have a look at the very next verse, verse 46 tells us that this is talking about spiritual life. In John 5:26 Jesus says that he has life in himself and in verse 21 he says that he gives this life to anyone that he wants to. remember he is the source of life
life-giving spirit’ does not speak of the nature of the resurrection body, but of the divine origin of the resurrection. Jesus’ physical body came back to life only by the power of God (cf. Rom. 1:4). So, Paul is speaking about its spiritual source, not its physical substance as a material body… In summation, the resurrection body is called ‘spiritual’ and ‘life-giving spirit’ because its source is the spiritual realm, not because its substance is immaterial. Christ’s supernatural resurrection body is ‘from heaven,’ as Adam’s natural body was ‘of the earth’ (v 47). But just as the one from ‘earth’ also has an immaterial soul, even so the One from ‘heaven’ also has a material body

I think you really failed to see the contrast.....adam became a living flesh after Gods breathed into his nostrils......paul says Jesus became a life Giving spirit

....When Jesus before his death said the Father has granted him to have life in himself ofcourse he was flesh then and infact he did raise people from the dead......but after his ressurection he became a life giving spirit.....

And remember 1 corinthians 15 :40-55 strictly talks about body type....a type of body that can stay in heaven.......

Only spirits inherit and leave in heaven......and so would be Jesus and all those who would go to heaven........

mazaje: You no try, you sef know. . .Speak am for Ijaw maybe we will under stand you better. . .

Lol.......

At least people for heaven no go say God dey play partia.......him firstborn don experience a share of temptation.......

So I see no reason why anyone would want to be presumptuous in heaven...no way.....!!!!.....

There would be absolute unity and not disorderliness......

benalvino: he was spirit when he walked on water?

No he wasn't ......That was a miracle......he raised people from the dead......but passing through thick wall and into a locked house??........no way.....

And please I had given a scripture that says the last adam became a life GIVING spirit and not flesh......

benalvino: nope... the bible would have said so.

The bible says Jesus is the beginning of Gods creation,the image of God,the firstborn of all creation(boomark has even talked on that).........have you not seen it??.......

And please it is high time we consider proverbs 8:22-30.....it is high time......

benalvino: that question no follow... are you not with your words? What is Jesus tell me? a god? a man? an angel? tell me

Jesus was divine......that whole john 1:1 is simply passing the message that the word was divine.........

Jesus was a spirit creature in heaven before his descending to the earth and also was Gods messenger(if you doubt raise up ya hand)..........and when he came to the earth he was a complete man........and after his ressurection he went back being the spirit Son of God he was before descending.....

I would want to ask you this question from psalm 110:1 and also link it with John 1:1 and then think for a minute why john 1:1 should be rendered the way it is.....

Psalm 110:1....

New International Version
(©2011)
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says
to my lord: "Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies a
footstool for your feet."

Why aren't the 2 Lords in this psalm not in all bold letters as it is found in john 1:1??.........

Why the difference??.......

Think for a moment then apply your retort to john 1:1 and see that that scripture wasn't written to tell us that Jesus is the almighty God.....its there to only tell us that Jesus is seperate from the Father,lesser than Him,but divine..........and I hope you know what divine is......

benalvino: Jesus and the father coexist before the world Start... its in the bible.

Yes Jesus and the Father was before the world was created...but have you forgotten Jesus was the beginning of Gods works??.......the first??....

You forget too quick...............

benalvino: Did the bible say Jesus body was materialize? did it say his body was disposed by God?... now its what you believe abi?

Naaa......its about the account you read and how to give a sound logical scriptural conclusion........

And besides scriptures do say the last adam was made a life giving SPIRIT

That gives the explanation why he could pass through thick wall.........

I think the best answer I can give is linked to Gods only Son(Jesus) coming to the earth and be tested.....Jesus did not waver in his integrity to GOD and so set a precedent for all others(angels and prospective heaven goers)......

Satan wanted worship and so developed a presumptuous spirit and was ousted.......Jesus' fine perfect example of obedience and subordinacy for all eternity should solve that proplem of one sinning in heaven...........

I try??........

Mr anony: For even more harmony, I know Revelations 22:12-13, there is no way to escape this one.

Mr anony: For even more harmony, I know Revelations 22:12-13, there is no way to escape this one.

And what do you have to say about verse 16??.........

Jesus being the root of david and the bright and morning star.........those are titles that the LORD GOD almighty can't bear.......

The problem you guys are having is not having the time to distinguish Yahweh from his son Jesus even when The very first chapter Ànd verse of revelation has already laid down the fact that Jesus is not the almighty GOD........

First and Last is a title that is neither exclusive to the Father nor the son nor anybody..........people can become first and last in so many ways....

Reading from the first verse of chapter 22 you would find out that both Yahweh,Jesus,the angel and john all spoke and it is our turn to decipher who is speaking and who certain expressions should be a pointer to............

Like I said earlier...considering revelation 1:1 §olves the whole wahala........

The one person who is the LORD GOD almighty in revelation consistently remains Yahweh who is the God of Jesus(revelation 3:12,revelation 1:1).......

This is an extra scripture to hit the nail on the head........

Revelation 19:6...

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And I heard as it were the voice
of a great multitude, and as the
voice of many waters, and as the
voice of mighty thunderings,
saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God
omnipotent reigns.

There praise JAH or YAH(Yahweh) was even used and attached to the one who is all-powerful.....it is obvious Jesus can't be the all powerful GOD since he himself(Jesus) recieves power from the Father and that Jesus isn't Yahweh(since Jesus has his own personal name different from that of his Father).......

And again the inconsistent use of the almighty's name has caused more damage than help to bible students.......

See how this araimac translation renders rev 19:6

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
(©2010)
And I heard a sound like that of
many multitudes, and like the
sound of many waters and like the
sound of mighty thunders saying,
“Hallelujah! For THE LORD
JEHOVAH God Almighty reigns!


Imagine if all the renderings in the world had consistently used Gods name we wouldn't be having this whole discussion.....because it is obvious that everybody's GOD and the GOD of Jesus is no one other than Yahweh....


You can't just jump on the title alpha and omega or first and Last to say its Jesus......you have to find out who the title is applying to.....because first and last is just a title...

consider revelation and see that when the title first and last is used for Jesus,immediately it quickly explains how he is the first and last.......firstborn from the dead.....no one else except Jesus can be the firstborn from the dead and none would be after him.....

And when used for Yahweh it explains his almightiness and no one matching up to Him(being the almighty) read isaiah 44:6 to see the point...........Before and after Yahweh there would be no GOD...no rival,no equal to Him...

You guys should shove the trinity dogma aside and consider revelation 1:1 first before coming to a conclusion....

And in all of this first and last wahala the holy spirit once again is missing...abi him no be first and last in a special way??.........

I remember we both battled out this particular discussion months ago......

Remember??......