₦airaland Forum

benalvino: the problem is you take the word out of context and make no sense out of the verse you quoted...

But God has revealed them to us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

benalvino: that means u read only the bolded part and therefore did not understand what is actually going on... and when you read the next paragraph you will see the whole context... trying to dodge it huh? Jesus calls him self the Great I AM that is what this post was all about yet you took the part you feel support you and ignore all other parts. I urge you to read it again...

you ignored this part huh?
The term used in the Septuagint is “Ho on” which is “the being one” this is not a direct translation of the Hebrew “ehyeh”. The Hebrew “Ehyeh asher ehyeh” translates as “I am that I am”. In the Hebrew version of Exodus 3:14, God does not say “I am he who is” or “I am the being one”, instead God says “I am that I am”. If we directly translate the Hebrew “ehyeh” ( I am) into Greek it would be “Ego eimi”. Hence the Septuagint already begins this phrase with “Ego eimi” (I am) before it ends with “ho on” (the being one).

benalvino: trying to twist that huh?

the Greek and Hebrew words used in Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58. The discussion will explore Jesus claim to be “I AM” in John 8:58 and how this claim is directly related to God’s self-identification as ”I AM” in Exodus 3:14. The Jehovah’s Witness incorrectly translate the word ”I AM” in John 8:58 as “I have been”. The Greek word used in this passage is “Ego Eimi” which is the first person conjugation of the Greek verb “to be”. This word is used throught the rest of the New Testament and the Old Testament as “I am”. The significance of this is that God uses “Ego Eimi” in identifying Himself to Moses in Exodus 3:14 and it here that will begin our discussion.

The Great “I AM” in Exodus 3:14 and the claim of Jesus in John 8:58

John 8:58-59: Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple. (RSV-CE)



In this verse, Jesus claimed “I AM”. He made this claim to show the difference between Abraham and Himself. Jesus highlights Abraham’s mortal nature and then points out His own eternal nature. This reality is a direct reference to Exodus 3:14. The Jewish audiance who heard Jesus make this claim understood this as a claim to be YHWH and respond by attempting to stone Him for blasphemy.



Exodus 3:14: “I AM WHO AM” (RSV-CE)

Hebrew Mesoretic: “Ehyeh asher ehyeh”

Literal English translation of Hebrew: “I am that I am”

Latin Vulgate: “ego sum qui sum”

Literal English translation of Latin: “I am who am”

These terms mean that God “is”, “the existence itself”, “being itself”

Septuagint: “Ego eimi ho on”

Literal English translation of Greek: “I am the being one”

The term used in the Septuagint is “Ho on” which is “the being one” this is not a direct translation of the Hebrew “ehyeh”. The Hebrew “Ehyeh asher ehyeh” translates as “I am that I am”. In the Hebrew version of Exodus 3:14, God does not say “I am he who is” or “I am the being one”, instead God says “I am that I am”. If we directly translate the Hebrew “ehyeh” ( I am) into Greek it would be “Ego eimi”. Hence the Septuagint already begins this phrase with “Ego eimi” (I am) before it ends with “ho on” (the being one).

Exodus 3:14: “God said to Moses, “I AM WHO AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” (RSV-CE)

The word “I am” is used again after God identifies Himself. God commands Moses to tell Israel “I am” sent him. This word “I am” is translated as “Ego Eimi” not “ho on” (the being one). The Septuagint uses “ho on” in reference to the term YHWH only. The term YHWH is used in verse 15 not in verse 14.

Exodus 3:15: “God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you: this is my name for ever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.” (RSV-CE)

Here in verse 15 God uses “YHWH”. In the RSV-CE (and most English translations) the term “LORD” in capital letters is substituted for “YHWH”. Exodus 3:14 is not translated as “I am the LORD”. The Divine Name is “YHWH” which means “He who is”.God tells Moses that “He who is” is God’s name forever. I believe this is the source of the confusion. God’s name is existence itself or being itself the term “YHWH” is a conjugation of this. The Septuagint term “the being one” (ho on) is a translation of this concept. The concept is that “God is the existence” or “God is being itself”. This means God is “He who is” and the Greek is referencing the term “He who is” (YHWH) as the term “the being one”. The Septuagint is referencing this by placing the second part of the phrase “that I am” as “the being one” or “he who is”. The Septuagint is trying to say “I am YHWH” instead of saying “I am that I am”. This is not what happens in the Hebrew version. The Hebrew version does not say “I am He who is” instead it says “I am that I am”.

It is in this context that we approach John 8:58. Exodus 3:14 in the original Hebrew states “I am that I am”, because God is “He who is” (YHWH). God refers to Himself as “I AM” when He identifies himself. The term “He who is” (YHWH) is how everyone else identifies God. This word “I am” is translated into Greek as “Ego eimi”. The word “Ego eimi” is used by Jesus in reference to Himself in John 8:58. Jesus uses the Divine name “being itself” the “great IAM” not by saying “ho on” or “YHWH” but instead by using “Ego Eimi” in reference to His own Divine nature of existence just like God in the burning bush. Before the mortal Abraham existed, Jesus is the “Ego Eimi” the eternal.

This situation reminds me of the difference between the Septuagint and the Latin Vulgate with the “He & She” in Genesis 3:15. Regardless of the wording used in the Scripture translation the context provided by Tradition reveals the same reality. In the case of Exodus 3:14 given the context of Tradition the difference of phrases “I am He who is” or “I am that I am” are meaningless. They both confess the same reality that God is “existence itself” or “Being itself” and that Jesus claimed reality for Himself. In either case Exodus 3:14 is still related to Jesus claim in John 8:58 because the same concept is realized, Jesus “is” while Abraham is “mortal”.

benalvino: Sorry... if jesus was going to a workshop say I AM Going to school... why do they want to kill him? it means something else other from what you are saying... ego emi... same word for Yahweh... Jesus use it.

benalvino: the holy spirit is not a it... the bible never refer to the holy spirit as a it... if the holy spirit is the force of God why is it its role and not Gods role? that is the trinity for you... the holy spirit is God's spirit and God's Spirit is God...

Your Spirit is you also...

baptize in the names of the father and the son.. and the Holy spirit... So deal with that.

again what is the Holy spirit then? lets assume with you that it is a it... so what is the holy spirit

benalvino: apparently you ignore my responce that the Word Became flesh... my brother flesh is a curse and he took it so he can remove the curse from it... Again john 1:1... the WORD was GOD.

as I told you earlier Being in the Form OF GOD... you remember now... Again this is moving in circles. Did you forget about the incarnation of the Word(The WORD in John 1:1)?

He became obedient even to death... like you said he was super angel or angel yet the bible says he was made lower than the angels.. I don't see any sense in there.

benalvino: Sorry but the trinity has always been One God... Nothing more nothing less... It is you that is saying it is 3 gods... once you worship a man it is idolatry... Jesus receive worship and prayers... in fact we pray in the name of the father son and holy spirit... Now God is asking us to pray or baptize in the name of his active force abi?

You showed just now that you don't understand the trinity.

benalvino: you going in Circles and I refuse to see any relevance of this... I already past this response long a go.. I guess from ijawkid.

Dux-01:
you are not supposed to find it.it is a deduction from studying the bible just as the word trinity is not in the bible.the problem is in the foundation of your belief(there is no trinity).that is why you don't understand.and i asked you some questions, pls ans them

shdemidemi: compare 1 cor 11:3 to col 1-3. Christ is in God

shdemidemi: ^^^ Don't lock up your mind on 1 verse, see what the man is saying in another verse, it might make it clearer-
IF then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead (to that old life), and your life is hid with Christ in God."

We are hidden in Christ, and where is Christ? In God. You can't get it any tighter than that

shdemidemi: My brother, I would have preferred it if you dealt with my post instead of looking for another verse that (you think)justifies your assertions. Anyway Jesus was man as much as he was God, the book of Mathew luke and john focussed on him being a son while the gospel of John is looking from the fact that Christ is God.

You need to understand Christ is not the king of the church but the king of the Jews, To the church, He is our Saviour, He's our Lord because we will be joint heirs with him. The Christ that walked through the face of the earth is the king of the jews, the Christ after resurrection is the lord. Study that and check it out, I believe you would understand the different characteristics of Christ from the beginning to the church age.

Dux-01:
No one said that Jesus is Lord over the Father.we are sayn Jesus is Equal to the Father and The Holy Spirit as One God but in three perons.

benalvino: didn't the bible say every authority was created through him and for him? therefore Jesus is God... that means the authority God have is for Jesus... remember the WORD is GOD.

benalvino: you cant say you are equal because you have created any heaven and earth or any authority unless you are Jesus Word... leave that talk. except you want to tear out that bible verse of the bible it says so..

benalvino: don't worry God have a purpose for us and Jesus is God...

Notice the two natures of Christ; his Divine nature, and human nature. Who being in the form of God, partaking the Divine nature, as the eternal and only-begotten Son of God, John 1:1, had not thought it a robbery to be equal with God, and to receive Divine worship from men. His human nature; herein he became like us in all things except sin. Thus low, of his own will, he stooped from the glory he had with the Father before the world was. Christ's two states, of humiliation and exaltation, are noticed. Christ not only took upon him the likeness and fashion, or form of a man, but of one in a low state; not appearing in splendor. His whole life was a life of poverty and suffering. But the lowest step was his dying the death of the cross, the death of a malefactor and a slave; exposed to public hatred and scorn. The exaltation was of Christ's human nature, in union with the Divine. At the name of Jesus, not the mere sound of the word, but the authority of Jesus, all should pay solemn homage. It is to the glory of God the Father, to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord; for it is his will, that all men should honor the Son as they honor the Father, John 5:23. Here we see such motives to self-denying love as nothing else can supply.

shdemidemi: People like profane arguments. Christ said 1. I AM the Bread of life. 2. I AM the Light of the world. 3. I AM the Door of the sheep. 4. I AM the Good Shepherd. 5. I AM the Resurrection and the life. 6. I AM the way, the truth and the life. 7. I AM the True Vine. I AM the bright and morning Star. Any discerning person knows who Jesus Christ is from the economy of the old testament.

"Our God is one." Well, absolutely He's one, but we know from the rest of Scriptures that He is One in three Persons.
Isaiah 9:6,7

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given (flash ahead to John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son..." How did God give His Son? When He was born in Bethlehem): [/b]and the government shall be upon his shoulder [b](that glorious Kingdom that is going to come upon the earth, that's what all the Old Testament prophets were looking forward to. There will be a King of Kings and Lord of Lords Who will not only rule Israel but the whole world. It's going to be perfect): [/b]and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, the everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

[b]John 14:8,9

"Philip saith unto him, `Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.' Jesus saith unto him, `Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;...'"


They are One and the Same. The only difference is Christ is God the Father in human flesh and appearance.

benalvino: Jesus Gods spoke man is God... see how you arrive at where you started? then God spoke man became flesh... You sell didn't understand that he was in the Form of God and choose to become a servant took human form(the curse of Flesh) Obey death... He was a man on earth simple.

Let me help you... I do the will of my father who sent me. I don't see how the Word of God is not God still... even if you use spoke man you return back to the spoke man was God and became flesh and Dwell... Elijah etc... where God's spoke men too they were never the Word of God in john 1:1

Jesus was not a man in heaven... a man cannot be the creator. and a thing cannot be the creator of all things...

Son … himself … subject—not as the creatures are, but as a Son voluntarily subordinate to, though co-equal with, the Father. In the mediatorial kingdom, the Son had been, in a manner, distinct from the Father. Now, His kingdom shall merge in the Father's, with whom He is one; not that there is thus any derogation from His honor; for the Father Himself wills "that all should honor the Son, as they honor the Father" (Joh 5:22, 23; Heb 1:6).

God … all in all—as Christ is all in all (Col 3:11; compare Zec 14:9). Then, and not till then, "all things," without the least infringement of the divine prerogative, shall be subject to the Son, and the Son subordinate to the Father, while co-equally sharing His glory. Contrast Ps 10:4; 14:1. Even the saints do not fully realize God as their "all" (Ps 73:25) now, through desiring it; then each shall feel, God is all to me.

benalvino: I answered it...

ijawkid: Jesus being the living bread descended from d heavens to d earth and that same bread says he lives because of the Father his God....and you are here tellin us that it was only as a human did those words apply to Jesus.....wasnt Jesus God himself when he uttered those words according to u?...

Jesus' words were as clear as day light....his total existence is as a result of the Fathers doing....



and iI still cant understand why you have chosen not to comment on Jesus being the image of the invisible God and why you have not yet realised that the only one God is the Father...


iI just dont know where you are seeing the space to fix 2 other persons into the Father....


remember that you and Jesus all stem from the same Father.....hope you know that....

benalvino: what kind of examples are you giving? by your example you mean Jesus was a man in Heaven then he created all things?

He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him. 57As the living Father has sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eats me, even he shall live by me. 58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eats of this bread shall live for ever.

the live because of Jesus...

That is why he is God... like asking how can the holy spirit be in More than 1 person... Or how can God see that everyone is doing at same time OR how can he be everywhere... the Thing is Jesus the Word is Part of God and you cant get around it.

benalvino: so John 1:1 is a lie? As the living Father has sent me, and I live by the Father: this is jesus talking as a man... I wonder how else you wan understand am... God word is it part of God or not...

benalvino: I beg you the Word was God and the Word Became flesh... what is the contradiction there? Being in the FORM of God and Became a servant... made lower than the angels(See why Jesus is not an Angel in respect to what you Believe)... and he was Obedient to death. So wetin be the contradiction? Is God's WORD part of GOD? DID GOD CREATE HIS OWN WORD?

benalvino: if the Holy Spirit is Gods spirit then the holy spirit is God... and the holy spirit was lied to... instead saying why did you lie to a force or holy spirit he said you have not lied to man but to God... How is it a twisted story?

benalvino: Jesus is a man... this is the point you don't get... the word became flesh
and I live by the Father; which is to be understood of Christ, not as God, but as Mediator, and as man.

I still they ask you. Is God's Word part of him or separate from him? and no use that parents way name their children God light or whatever because it is a very bad example

nlMediator: Back to the main question of this thread: Holy Spirit is God. The Bible does not need to say it directly that Holy Gpirit is God before we can find it in the Scriptures. In fact, calling Him God directly would make no difference to those who reject Him as God. After all, Jesus is called God, Mighty God and the "naysayers" claim that it does not matter; that stones and 'sticks' are also called gods; that god is merely a title.

But if you look closely at God's Word, you see that the saints of old understood and recognized the Holy Spirit as God. One example is in Acts 5: 3-9 [AMP], Peter referred to the same person with different terms. He used the same word - deceive - or a variation of it in v.3; v.4 and v.9 to say who Ananias and his wife lied to: Holy Spirit, God, and Spirit of the Lord, clearly showing that He was referring to the same person.

3. But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart that you should lie to and attempt to deceive the Holy Spirit, and should [in violation of your promise] withdraw secretly and appropriate to your own use part of the price from the sale of the land?

4 As long as it remained unsold, was it not still your own? And [even] after it was sold, was not [the money] at your disposal and under your control? Why then, is it that you have proposed and purposed in your heart to do this thing? [How could you have the heart to do such a deed?] You have not [simply] lied to men [playing false and showing yourself utterly deceitful] but to God.

5 Upon hearing these words, Ananias fell down and died. And great dread and terror took possession of all who heard of it.

6 And the young men arose and wrapped up [the body] and carried it out and buried it.

7 Now after an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not having learned of what had happened.

8 And Peter said to her, Tell me, did you sell the land for so much? Yes, she said, for so much.

9 Then Peter said to her, How could you two have agreed and conspired together to try to deceive the Spirit of the Lord?

nlMediator: But when Jesus is called the VERY Source of Life in Acts 3:15, there's no qualification. And there was no need to exclude or include God. Because Jesus and God are one. What some of you are doing is refuse to separate Jesus the Man from Jesus the God. You use Scriptures talking about His role as man and transport that into discussion of Him as God. Doesn't work that way.

benalvino: sorry jesus was never created... we are all created by him... it doesn't make us the almighty God... we are man. lower than even the angels so don't worry. did you ever create the heavens and earth? what have you given life? are you the source of life? so why make this statement? He is the Word of God... Gods word is part of God. simple