₦airaland Forum

Just last week, the nation was "virtually" agog with the news that the members of the National Assembly were to be paid 8.64billion naira for wardrobe allowance. There was some sort of outrage that 469 nigerians were to share 8.64billion naira just to buy clothes while the rest of over 169million nigerians were to probably hail them. Every dic and harry tried to give a piece of their mind and threat. It however comes as a surprise that the Senate President Bukola Saraki was able to douse the tension with a con man tweet. Today, everything seems to be back to normal and business as usual. The NASS members are about to 'get alert' and we have all gone to sleep, waiting for the next news to attack, criticize and trend. Here is what Saraki tweeted. "Chairman of Revenue Mobilisation Allocation & fiscal Commission was in my office to clarify wardrobe allowance. Amount is N506,600 per Sen". Now, this got the majority concluding that the wardrobe allowance for senators is N506,600 and not N25million again. What people are now saying is that even N506,600 is too much. What is funny is that Saraki tweeted the full meaning of RMAFCO but decided to abbreviate Senator as Sen and FAILED to tell us the frequency of the N506,600.
When the smart ones decided to ask for the frequency of N506,600. Information filtered in from God knows where that the wardrobe allowance is 25% of annual basic for the Senators, and most people have settled for that rubbish. Only a MUGU will believe that 25% of a Nigerian Senator's annual basic salary is N506,600. Are you a MUGU? We are to believe that a Senators collects N2,026,400 per annum. In most organisations, allowances are calculated as a percentage of ANNUAL not monthly, so if we are told 25%, it means we are to believe that our senators earn N2,026,400 per annum basic. That is around N170,000 per month. Even a mad man should not believe this! Unfortunately, the merry-go-round that Saraki and his cohorts have taken us through is dividing the wardrobe allowance to MONTHLY calculation and selling it to us, with plausible deniability that they take N506,600 per Sen. N506,600 X 12months X 4years = N24,316,800 This is what caused the disturbing rumbling, and i hope our eyes are not taken away from the goal of slashing it. BTW, how much is PMB and PYO's wardrobe allowance?


Also, on President Buhari stating that he met the treasury virtually empty. He is very correct, only that our education and common sense in this country is just so poor. The word "virtually/virtual" means nearly: almost, but not quite. being something in practice: being something in effect even if not in reality or not conforming to the generally accepted definition of the term. Someone argued that there is about $30billion available, nobody denied/denies that. It is the fact of a 7trillion naira debt that cancels out the so called $30billion. Common sense shows that if you have $30billion in hand and a debt of about $35billion(7trillion naira). It VIRTUALLY means you have zero/empty when you balance. Only a foolish person fails to take note of his debt. It is akin to the ailing states to fail to note the debts of salaries they owe workers and others and be making noise about having money or allocation. In this, the President has not erred but mainly spoken with common sense, the treasury is VIRTUALLY empty.

cc: lalasticlala, theVoice, midolian, barcanista, theOtherView, PassingShot

otr1:
The New Testament says clearly that WE (Christians) are now the temple of God, the spiritual nation of Israel. The physical temple of Jerusalem AND the city was destroyed in AD70 because the Jews rejected Christ Jesus and were no longer His special people. Therefore, the place of Jerusalem in Israel lost it's significance also.
Jesus said ..."the hour cometh when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father ... But the hour cometh, and now is, when the TRUE worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth."(John 4:23-24)
If you're looking at that passage as having anything to do with the second coming of Christ, then you have to take your eyes off the literal city of Jerusalem or the nation of Israel.
We all know that Babylon, who led the literal nation of Israel into captivity, is no more. But we have a mention of a Babylon the Great in the book of Revelation making war with God's people in the end time. New Testament CLEARLY teaches that, ANYONE who comes to Christ Jesus are the chosen people of God, the spiritual Jews (Romans 2:29), (Romans 9:6-, (Galatians 3:28). Jesus also clearly said Himself ..."Therefore I say unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."(Matthew 21:43) and "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."(Matthew 23:38). So if that passage is anything to go by as regarding the last days, then the above mentioned people are God's people who are keeping His commandments and the faith of Jesus(Rev 14:12), the world over. And the spiritual babylon (the beast) is the one making war with them. As for Jesus setting foot on mount olives to fight the nations as when He fought in the day of battle. You're in for a surprise if you think Jesus will come down and fight. We shall be caught up in the air to meet the Lord when He Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout(1 Thes 4:16-17). This is how the second coming will be. The mention of people escaping through the valley of the splitted mountain is just a way of saying Jesus rescuing His people.

We are the SPIRITUAL nation, not PHYSICAL nation of Israel. The physical nation of Israel exists and the Bible CLEARLY mentions its relevance and significance.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.


Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 9:27 Isaiah also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Laugh all you want, it does not change the Word of God and all the Word of God will be fulfilled in His time, whether you accept, understand or not.

If you read your Bible well, you'll know that at His second coming, the saints will be taken with Him and the rest destroyed and live not until after 1000year(Rev 20:5). Where will the saints be during the 1000 years? Rev 7:14-15 has the answer. The Jerusalem you're talking about is the New Jerusalem(Rev 21) which is after the 1000year reign before the throne of God in Heaven. It's this same city that the resurrected lost souls (after the 1000years) encompassed (Rev 20:9), before God will finally destroy them.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
It is the DEAD that did not live again until the thousand years were finished. The whole world will not die, it is those that rise up against Christ and join hands with the Antichrist that will die and not live till the final judgement, where the dead small and great stand before God. The passage(Revelation 19 and 20) are VERY clear and has already been explained by me in my previous posts yesterday. Jesus will come to earth and reign with His saints/armies.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Revelations 19 clearly shows that the saints left heaven with Jesus to earth to reign for 1000years.

"last DAYS" as used in 2Pet 3:3, 2Tim 3:1, Acts 2:17 etc is different from the "last DAY-this one is singular- in John 12:48, 11:24, John 6:39. John 6:39 was talking resurrection of the saints on the LAST DAY not last days(latter days)

The last days culminate in the LAST DAY. It is also called the end time or the day of the Lord, or day of judgement. It is not a 24hour day but a period of time.

The rest of the dead live not until 1000years(Rev 20:5)
Since we have the first resurrection (of the dead saints), there's definitely going to be a second one (of the lost after 1000years). They're the ones that will be deceived in Rev 20:8. They will be destroyed (Rev 20:9). These people have no second chance because the second death(final judgement-Rev 20-14-15)already has power over them(Rev 20:6)because they would remain dead after the first resurrection.Everyone's fate is determined at The Second coming.Note that the earth will remain uninhabited for the 1000years and satan will have no one to tempt.

All these are your random idea and opinion. i rest my case. If you have sincere questions, i' ll try to be available, otherwise, good luck on your journey.

Mogidi:
I thought Buhari met an empty treasury?

What is the meaning of "virtually"?

hifaif:
Yes, according to the witch hunter. He makes his followers believe that they won't share in the troubles of this world as far as they do not dip their hands in sins (Sins includes not paying your tithe).

Won't and Shouldn't are two different words, try to get accustomed to the difference in meaning.

francizy:
So according to Mr. Private Jets, if a Christian should fall sick, then the person is not a believer? What about Deeper Life G.O who fell sick sometimes last year or so? Now according to Mr. 4privateJets, the GO of Deeper Life is an unbeliever? I even regard that Deeper Life GO more than him because Deeper Life preaches more of morality than prosperity and tithe payments.

Nobody said that if a Christian should fall sick, then the person is not a believer, are you incapable of reading?

otr1:
Where did I mention that Jesus won't be coming back? Where did you read that? I said Jesus won't touch ground at His second coming, but rather we'll go and meet Him in the air- or what does your bible tell you? The earlier you realise that there's no pre-second-coming rapture the better you'll understand this.
Take a look at these Bible verses and you will notice that the focus is NOT about the church being taken away before the end, but rather AT the end of the world and the LAST DAY.
John 6:40 ...'And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.'
John 11:24 ...'Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.'
John 12:48 ...'He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.'
From the verses above, Eternal life is given on the LAST DAY. The resurrection happens on the LAST DAY. Judgment is given on the LAST DAY.
What more prove do you need.
Stop misleading people into thinking that there's a secret rapture then after 7 years, the second coming, then those who didn't make rapture will have another chance. I tell you, everything will happen at once and there'll be no second chance for sinners. The belief that Jesus returns 7years after the rapture fixes the date of Jesus' second coming which we know no one knows the time and date. Don't separate catching up of saints and second coming. They will happen on the same day and that is the end of this world as we know it. It's after the 1000 years that Jesus will set foot on earth again and that's a thousand years after His second coming.

This is the summary of events:

- Jesus returns at the second coming.
- The wicked are killed by the 'brightness of His coming'.
- The dead saints are resurrected and together with the living saints, meet Jesus in the air.
- The earth is laid waste.
- Satan is bound on earth by circumstances of having no one to tempt.
- The thousand year millennium starts.
- The saints are in heaven for a thousand years with Jesus and take part in judgment.
- The thousand year millennium ends.
- The lost are resurrected and satan gathers them for battle.
- The New Jerusalem descends to earth with Jesus and the saints.
- Satan and the lost go up to the new city to attack it.
- God reigns fire down from heaven and destroys satan and the lost.
- Heaven and earth is renewed and the saints live forever with Jesus.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
This passage is clearly about the Lord's coming or "day" of the Lord, it is very reminiscent of the tribulation period and then Jesus comes/touches down as seen in Revelation 19. Remember that between Revelation6-19, the earth suffers a lot and so do Jerusalem/Israel. But Jesus comes and what follows, the defeat of the beast and his cohorts.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
This is the period of the 1000year reign on earth. God promises Jerusalem peace through prophecy here. The rest of the passage/chapter sings the same tune. This is the second coming and Jesus clearly touches ground and earth. Verse 1 calls it the DAY of the Lord. It's the same period called last day or the end of all things/the world. Again, i have to reiterate that the "last days" are a period, not 24hours. In fact, the last days started from the ascension of Jesus in Acts 1 so the last day is not a 1hour event or 24hour event. The rapture does not make anyone to know any day or hour. We can only guess even like today, that Jesus is coming soon. Actually, it is yourteaching that gives sinners a second chance by telling them that they will resurrect for satan to tempt them again.

Verse 27 of Jeremiah 4 says that the whole land is desolate, but God will not make a complete end. This matches with the truth that the earth will be 'made new', and we will inhabit this 'earth made new' after the 1000 years. So God is not going to totally destroy this world. His is going to 'burn up' all things in it (2 Peter 3:10) and then renew it (2 Peter 3:13).
And no, God's people won't spend the 1000 years on earth because, during this time, it will be desolate. Read Revelation 20:2-7 and you'll understand that during this period, the saints are going to reign with Christ as priests of God and Christ(verse 6). And no, the saved of God won't be living side by side with the wicked during this time, because they are either dead before the second coming or dead at the second coming. Revelation 20:5 made us understand that during this 1000 years, the rest of the dead(the lost) live not, so your point that they'll live together falls flat here. The lost will be dead until the expiration of the 1000 years.
When will the 1000 reign begins?
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 ...'For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.'

Where will the saint be during this time? Jesus has the answer: John 14:1-3 ...'Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you,I will come again, and receive you unto myself;that where I am, there ye may be also.'
We know that we will spend eternity living on the new earth. So for us to be with Jesus in heaven, we would need to be there during the 1000 year millennium, which is why Jesus said "I will come again and receive you unto Myself, that where I AM there ye may be".
Any other cooked up story about this that's not in the scripture is a lie from hell.

The whole land is desolate like every time, that scripture can apply to almost anything. However, i believe it best fits the time of the Great Tribulation just before the SECOND COMING. If you read through Revelations from i think chapters 6 to 19, it paints a grim and desolate picture of the earth and its sufferings. All these are before "The Word of God" comes in Revelations 19.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of THE EARTH, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The Earth is obvious enough from the text above. What is referred to as the battle of Gog and Magog is ON EARTH after the 1000years have expired. Here is how things happen, at the rapture saints are taken up and disappear from earth to meet the Lord in the air. They will be with the Lord for about 7years in Heaven(John 14v1-4) and most of Revelations that talk of saints and elders and souls IN HEAVEN. At that same time frame of about 7 years, the antichrist will manifest on earth and the period of Great Tribulation and many awful signs will be going on. Not every one will agree with the antichrist. Some will be killed and die, many careless christians who missed the rapture will become careful, some sinners will repent etc. These are the people Jesus and the saints will meet and reign over when they come to earth and the beast and his colleagues have been captured and defeated.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
All these happen when Jesus comes to earth with His armies/saints. In the same chapter, there was a MARRIAGE supper of the Lamb IN Heaven where the wife was READY and the partakers BLESSED. It is after the events of chapter 19 that satan is bound for 1000years. Jesus is on earth by this time with His armies from chapter 19. It is at this time that christians reign as KINGS on earth for 1000years with Jesus physically present. This is the paradise period when the earth will truly be filled with glory and peace and the lion will lie with the lamb etc. There will be surcivors and repentent/penitent people on earth who did not take the mark of the antichrist or join in battle against God. These will live long and a child will be 100years, and there will be fruitfulness and joy and multiplication as there is no devil at that period etc. You can imagine the population explosion from 1900 to 2015, compare that to when there will be 1000years with no world wars and strange diseases or famines. After 1000years, satan will be released and he will tempt the subjects of the saints. Many of them will fall of temptation as usual of man, they will surround the camp of the saints but God will destroy them. Then there will be what is called the Great White Throne judgement(Revelation 20v10-15). After this judgement, there will be a New Earth with New Heavens(Revelation 21).

Remember the mention of first resurrection in Rev 20:5? It's the resurrection of the dead in the Lord. So if there's a first resurrection, there must be a second resurrection. Are we not also told that the rest of the dead lived not tii after the 1000years in Rev. 20:5?
Notice: the saints are in heaven with Christ; the lost are dead; the earth is desolate; and satan is bound in the bottomless pit( this isn't a literal prison; it's simply the earth. Why? Because the earth is desolate with only satan and no one to tempt).
After the 1000 years, the New Jerusalem will descend from God.
2 Peter 3:13 ...'Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.'
Revelation 21:1-4 ...'And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.'
Please note that the book of Revelation is not chronological.

It's at this point that the second resurrection (the lost live again after 1000years: Rev. 20:5) takes placed. At this point, satan is loosed out of his prison(state of having no one to tempt). He will deceive the resurrected lost again and gather them to attack the city, but fire from God will devour them. They will be destroyed; satan, death, grave, the beast and the lost. The Bible call it "the second death" Rev 20:14.
Support whatever the objection you have with the scripture. If you feel the rapture will happen before second coming, I want to see a prove, not 1corin 15:52 that suggests the catching up of saints at the second coming. To prove that 1cor 15:52 is talking about the second coming of Christ and not only the catching up of saints, just read from verse 23 and see for yourself
So where did you get the idea that the rapture is a mystery while the second coming is known and that they are two separate events? You see the danger of reading verses in isolation?

I tire for una o!

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Who are the rest of the dead? The rest of the dead are sinners. The first resurrection is for all saints. they have been changed. Jesus said He is the resurrection and the life. He gives us all glorious bodies as explained in 1Corinthians 15. This happens at the rapture when we are CHANGED in a moment in the twinkle of an eye. The saints who die in the great tribulation are also chaged/given robes as it were. We who are alive at the rapture will not prevent or precede those saints who are already dead before the rapture. So, the dead before the rapture, the alive saints at the rapture, and the dead saints after the rapture are all changed, this is the first resurrection.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God ; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

We will ALL be changed, all saints, dead and alive. That is the first resurrection. Interestingly, there is no second resurrection mentioned anywhere. i think though that there will be a second one or second batch as a FIRST infers there is a second. That second will be for the saints not deceived after the 1000years. The blessed folks in the first resurrection are the same Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. That is why they are blessed, they are forever free from satan and his shenanigans. No where does the Bible refer to the earth as the bottomless pit.Revelations 9 refers to the same bottomless pit from where some creatures were released to the EARTH. satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth. Evidently, he wasn't on earth. It is appointed to man ONCE to die, and after this judgement. Sinners don't resurrect for satan to tempt them again, that is a most absurd and unbiblical idea. Like i have said, the coming of the Christ in the OT was actually in two phases but the majority thought it was one event merged together. Even when Jesus was around, that was the idea the disciples and the jews had. It was Jesus that was busy explaining to them that He will die and rise and go then come. The Seconding coming is a phase of events also referred to as the Last day.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
This "last day" or second coming is also the period called the "end of the world". In this PERIOD many things will happen starting with the rapture/resurrection, then the great tribulation, marriage supper, the physical COMING or touchdown, the millenial reign, battle of gog and magog and culminate with the White Throne Judgement.
i really do not hope to continue arguing this with you. You are free to believe what you want as it were. Just make sure you live a holy life that glorifies God at all times, rapture or no rapture.

otr1:
You're not getting it and it's too bad. Please understand that VITAL point. The rapture theory teaches a separation BEFORE the end. But the Bible clearly teaches that there is NO separation before the end. That Corinthians verse you shared up there doesn't change anything. I'll talk more about it.
As for the holy angels being the believers, I disagree. Read Matt. 25:31-32. He was talking about Heavenly angels who are coming to separate the sheep from the goats?
Do you see what I'm talking about?
Are you now saying the supposed "sheep" are also the holy angels? C'mon!

It is not TOO BAD that i am not getting it or you not getting it. What will be too bad is missing eternity with God despite understanding Bible doctrine. Like i said earlier, while it is good to understand, no one's understanding is perfect. And there are many people in Bible schools that know a lot about salvation and Spirit baptism but do not have the tangible experience. " The End" is not a day event, it is a period of time. Understanding the scriptures cumulatively help in reckoning that there is an event called the Rapture during that period called the End. Just like when the Old Testament talks about Christ's coming, we do not really have a clear demarcation. It is because we have the privilege and benefit of hindsight that we can easily teach about Jesus's FIRST and SECOND coming. It's not well separated in the OT. In a similar sense, the rapture, great tribulation, millenial reign and the judgement of the world are all INSIDE the period called the LAST DAY. So, its not like the last day is 24hours. For instance, Jesus said that the prince of this world is judged, but we know that event will finally and fully happen in future.
The Corinthian verse i shared INFORMS us that there is a MYSTERY. Also, about angels being believers, here again is what i said you should CONSIDER, i did not assert it. Jesus told us that believers are as angels in heaven. So, when Jesus comes back with His angels or saints, they CAN actually/really BE believers. Matt. 25:31-32
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
This passage says JESUS(the Son of man) will do the separation. It doesn't talk about any heavenly or earthly angels doing any separation, it is the Son of man. This is consistent with other scriptures that affirm that God will judge the world and even with the Revelations 19 and 20 details. It is in the parable that the reapers are said to be doing some sort of separation(Matthew 13). We cannot form doctrine chiefly on parables, especially when there are clearer teachings in the same Bible on the subject. Jesus the creator of heaven and hell did not mince words in saying " when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."

You see what I'm talking about? If rapture and trinity is not in the Bible, why invent it? Is the Bible not supposed to be our sole guide? Please note: Bible simply means "Book", so the collection of scriptures into one is actually a book; Holy Book. The only phrase that looks like rapture in the Bible is "caught up" in Thessalonian. I have no problem with the word rapture, but the concept: That there's a separation BEFORE the end. As for trinity, that's a topic for another day. That concept is no where found in the Bible.

Nobody is inventing anything, i was very clear that the existence and relevance and concepts/meanings don't necessarily have to be seen in your Bible for it to be real. Rapture is synonym for "caught up/catching up", you agreed to that already in your earlier post. Your grouse was that the catching up is not before the tribulation. Just like Bible simply means "Book", so the Rapture simply means "caught up", and " caught up" is in the Bible.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be "caught up" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be "RAPTURED" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The teaching of the rapture is based, among other things, on the promise of God that believers will not be made to pass through the Great Tribulation.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Co 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
The last passage quoted is very instructive. The Antichrist or man of sin cannot come fully until the one hindering/restraining/withholding him is taken out of the way. It is the presence of the church and tangible presence of the Holy Spirit since Pentecost that withholds and restrains the decay and manifestation of the son of perdition.

This is not a doctrine, my friend, it's the Bible truth. Those were the words of Jesus in parables, not doctrines of men. And you know what? He ended up explaining the parable, so you don't even have to look for the meaning.

A doctrine is a teaching, a rule or principle that forms the basis of a belief. There are Bible doctrines/teachings, meaning what the Bible teaches or says or stands for about a particular subject. Like for instance, the Bible doctrine/teaching/stand on marriage, on forgiveness of sin, on eternal judgement, on prayer etc. That is different from man's doctrine which may be formed from man's head or prevailing custom. Bible teaching should not be based/founded primarily on parables, especially when there are other passages clearly teaching on the same topic. Parables only supplement the foundations.

Again, this's not a doctrine, it's the Bible fact.
Read this:
Matt. 13:37-40 "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man," replied Jesus. "The field is the whole world. The good seed? That is the sons of the kingdom, while the weeds are the sons of the evil one. The blackguard who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of this world. The reapers are angels"
This's the point Jesus wants you to understand. Stop looking for what's not lost.

It is not a fact, it is a parable.
Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
The kingdom of God is likened to a dozen things in the same Bible. Each of them cannot be facts together, we learn lessons from each of the parables, they are not to be taken literally. For instance, the wheat is taken out of the field into the barn in the parable. i am certain you do not believe that, do you? Whatever you believe, kindly note that parables can be easily misunderstood even by disciples.

The 1Cor 15:52 can not happen until the tares are separated from the wheat(Matt 13:30); goats from the sheep(parable of talents: Matt 25:32); the casting away of the bad and gathering the good into the vessel(parable of the dragnet Matt 13:48); the foolish virgins locked out from the wise ones(Matt 25:10). Do you see? This's not about one Bible verse. All Jesus parable of the last day talks about separating the bad from the good. It's after then, the dead in the Lord will be quickened and transformed and then the living saved with put on immortality. This will not happen before and there's no where in the Bible that said otherwise. We'll be transformed in a twinkle of an eye( call this rapture if you like), but it's not going to happen before the wheat or being separated from the tares at the end of the world.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 ...'And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.'
Isn't the above texts addressed to God's people( the troubled). The Lord is coming back for His poeple and to destroy the wicked.

Psalm 50:3-4 ... 'Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence:a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.'
Can you see that Psalm? Jesus is coming to devour the wicked and to call His own to heaven from above. It's not a separate event my friend.

You do not need a parable to know that judgement day is coming, all scriptures point to that fact, from Enoch to Psalms that you quoted to the prophets to Revelations. We all know that the wicked will be separated from the righteous(Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God) . That has nothing to do with the RAPTURE which is a MYSTERY. No one is disputing the second coming, so there is no point showing us the second coming and saying " you see you see". We know about the second coming, what we are talking about is a rapture before that " coming". The second coming will not happen in a twinkle of an eye, it is an event that everyone will know and see. The Bible says every eye will see Him, nations will mourn etc. It is not an hurried process. It is the catching up, the disappearance/taking, the meeting the Lord in the air that will be in a moment, a twinkle of the eye.
Like i have earlier explained, the Bible is not necessarily written chronologically, it is revelation or the privilege of hindsight that helps us to separate events. For instance, the OT talks about the coming of the Christ like one event. It is the NT that helps us to see that there is a first and second coming.

Sorry Bros, this world as we know it will be laid to waste at the second coming of Christ and no, the wicked will be dead during this 1000 years.
The truth is, when Christ Jesus returns at the second coming, the wicked will be destroyed, the dead saints will be resurrected and the saints who are still alive will be "caught up" to meet Jesus in the air. And then we will be taken to heaven to start the 1000 year millennium.
And why do we "meet the Lord in the air"? Because Jesus is NOT going to set foot upon the earth during the second coming. And the second phase of His return with the saints will be at the END of the 1000 year millennium.

The world will be laid waste after Jesus' 1000year reign on earth not before. Jesus is coming to earth to reign as King of kings. The kings will be the saints, and they will be kings over other human beings that survive the Great Tribulation. Kings have subjects you know, not just titles. The passages in Revelations 19 to 21 are quite straight forward on these. Most of the paradisal passages of the OT prophets are going to be fulfilled in that period.

Yes, we're almost set for the period of great tribulation. That's how you won't be able to complete transactions then without the mark of the beast. Testing testing get ready. Jesus is coming.

doctokwus:
He was trying to be clever by half to fool dimwits like himself by conveniently avoiding the amt he mentioned(N506k) is per month.In 4 years that equates to theN20m + they would receive as a lump sum.
Yet this is the person that sits as Nigeria's number 3 citizen! He feels everyother nigerian is a dimwit,thus he can play with words,meetings and figures,just because he outsmarted his father,sister and recently senators that played into his hands.
His cup will soon get willed,am sure of it.

Saraki wants to scam Nigeria. Is this how he'll be giving one scam per week? 506,600X 12monthsX 4years is still around 25million. Half truth liar spotted. He even gave full meaning of RMFC but is abbreviating senator and withholding frequency.

Elslim:
apparently u r d dullard.

ve u ever heard of priority list??

if yes then u will be a baby mumu if u dont know or cant phantom what is no 1 on PMB's priority list right now..

ve a good de while u pondering over it.

Don't mind that fellow. The memo is even dated 1st of June. Buhari asked for it two weeks now. Remember, he was not happy recently that NNPC doesn't know all their bank accounts. God bless Buhari and Nigeria.

[quote author=Panelbeater post=34847576][/quote]Note that the government didn't give a particular number of people, only observers are playing around with figures. Also, the scheme is not for jobless youths, it is for the most vulnerable poor. That's a category that will be likely old people, sickly people and beggars. There is nothing wrong with the scheme, developed countries have similar schemes and even social securities taking care of poor people, giving them food, the insane and sick people etc. Also, the scheme does not stop other schemes and development or industrialization plans. If we can pay lawmakers who are about 2,500 people, we'll pass paying our poor and helpless families.

caxxy:
and who told u we just wke up nd guess in soccer sir?

Are you saying there are clear observable and explainable and repeatable trends in soccer?

wolesmile:
But you wager in the stock market, right? tell me the difference

The stock market is not haphazard guesswork. There are clear observable and explainable and repeatable trends.

iseyinoro:
I totally agree that foreign trips are important in governance but you'll also agree with me that there are issues to be addressed internally. We need an SGF,Chief of Staff and some people, including the service chiefs must be relieved of their jobs.These and more are what I expect from PMB in his first week in office since he promised to hit the ground running immediately he is sworn in. I voted for him and I want him to succeed so that haters can shut their mouth.

Appointment is not a priority, appointment to do what? We had people in those offices these past years not doing much. When you're clear on what to do, then you appoint people and give a clear mandate for the job. Now, we have saved at least half of this month's salary for those offices, lol. i kid you not, those offices would not have done much yet anyway.
On service chiefs, its not compulsory that they are sacked. IMHO, they should not be. Rather, they should be made to clear up their mess.instead of promoting and training new set while paying these ones heavy pension for doing nothing. Their idle hands hands can constitute nuisance forming politician and opposition.

searay:
I hope over there it was:

Zuma and not Mandela


AU and not OAU


Xenophobia and not Apartheid





Patiently waiting here in WEST GERMANY with MITCHELL for reports from South Africa.

You can vote for this boy to govern you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFxjy7f9RpY

Even Obama makes silly mistakes like confusing his religion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGdkqfBICw

vimi:
My president currently holds the record of the most traveled newly elected president iin the whole wide world

My prayer iis that his trips translates to a positive change iin Nigeria.

Welcome back to reality sir

You can open your eyes now from your prayer. Answers are coming in already. We got free $5billion while Jonathan struggled to BORROW $1billion.Also, boko haram are only limited to commiting suicide these days as compared to displacing villages, palaces and local governments and kidnapping our women. God is in control.

Ignorance is deadly.

How will the state generate revenue na, when the generator no pay salary. What will they tax?

No, it is wrong.

What Happens at the End of the World?

For Jesus to say "end of the world", there must be some destructive event to take place right? So what event is coming that would be an "end of the world" event? THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST JESUS!Take a look at the following Bible verses describing the second coming and you will see that THIS is the event that will "end this world" as we know it.
Revelation 1:7 ...'Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.'
2 Peter 3:10 ...'But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.'
2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 ...'And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.'
Psalm 50:3-4 ... 'Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence:a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.'
Isaiah 34:8-10 ...'For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever:from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.'
Sounds like an end of the world event doesn't it? The destroying force of the second coming of Christ Jesus, as shown in the Bible verses above, will cause the earth to be "laid waste" as described in Isaiah above. Which means that the world will NOT continue on as we know it now, which the rapture theory proclaims. Instead, the wicked will be destroyed and the earth will be laid waste. And it is AT THIS TIME that the saints are taken to heaven, not before.

We are already in the last days or last time. The last day is not one 24hour day but a period.
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
Jesus does not COME to earth in the Rapture, we MEET Him in the air to be with Him forever.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Meeting Him in the air is not the second coming. At that coming, He comes with thousands to reign and execute judgement.

But What About One Taken and One Left Behind?

Matthew 24:37-42 ...'But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.'
This is such a misunderstood passage of scripture today. Take a look at the context of the above Bible verses. Do you see that Jesus is telling us that His second coming will be like what happened in Noah's day? And what happened in the days of Noah? The above verse tells us. The flood DESTROYED the earth, taking away the wicked and leaving behind God's people (Noah's family). Who was "taken away" and who was "left behind" in Noah's day? Take a look at the above verses again. It was the wicked who were TAKEN and Noah was LEFT BEHIND! And this is what Christ is pointing us to. He is saying that the day is coming when the earth will be destroyed again and the wicked will be TAKEN and the saints will be LEFT BEHIND.
Please take note of the following VITAL point.
Luke 17:35-37 ...'Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him,Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.'
Why did the disciples ask 'WHERE, LORD'? Were they wondering where the one left behind was? No, that person would be in the same place as they were. So the disciples are clearly asking where has the one taken gone. And what did Jesus say? "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." The body? In the original language, the word Eagle can also mean Vulture. And where do Vultures gather? Where there is a dead body! And look at what Job says about the Eagle:
Job 39:27-30 ...'Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high? She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place. From thence she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off. Her young ones also suck up blood:and where the slain are, there is she.'
And in Matthew 24, Jesus even makes it clearer by saying it is a CARCASS! So the one taken is the wicked who will be killed.
And what did we already confirm would happen during the harvest at the end? Let's read it again ...'and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.'(Matthew 13) ... The wicked are "taken" first and the saints are left behind to then be "gathered into My barn" (taken to heaven).
The whole context of Matthew 24 is a warning for us to "watch and be ready" so that the "sudden destruction" that is to come upon the world (1 Thess. 5:3) will not TAKE US by surprise. Just like what happened in Noah's day. Who were taken? The wicked. Who were left behind? Noah and his family!

indeed, Matthew 24 is a complex and often misunderstood passage. But please observe the CONTEXT. The answers Jesus gave were to three questions. Given that He did not answer them like i would probably do but mixed the answers up so much, you would need God's help to understand it. Here is the question, at least the question can be understood and clear even if the answer is long and maybe complex.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Please OBSERVE and note that He was asked THREE questions.
-When shall these things be?
- And what shall be the sign of thy coming?
- and of the end of the world?
They asked about three separate events, about when the temple would be destroyed which happened about 70years after, about the sign of Jesus' coming(You see His coming was not something hidden), and then the END of the world. After His coming, He will reign for at least 1000 years as King, and His saints as kings on this same earth. It is AFTER that reign and coming so much publicized by the prophets that the world will end. The gaps are wide for the three events. But the question and the answer almost treat them like they will all happen at once, except he that reads 'understands'.

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Gen 49:10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
The saints are taken out of the way, not left behind. The gathering of God's people is UNTO the Lord.

Caught Up to Meet the Lord in the Air

In light of what we have learned above. What does it mean when the Bible says we will be "caught up" to meet the Lord in the air? Exactly as it says! You see, those who hold to the rapture theory try to get something out of this verse that just isn't there! The truth is, when Christ Jesus returns at the second coming, the wicked will be destroyed, the dead saints will be resurrected and the saints who are still alive will be "caught up" to meet Jesus in the air. And then we will be taken to heaven to start the 1000 year millennium.
And why do we "meet the Lord in the air"? Because Jesus is NOT going to set foot upon the earth during the second coming. And the second phase of His return with the saints will be at the END of the 1000 year millennium.
This is another misunderstanding that the rapture theory causes. Jesus is not going to rule on earth during the 1000 years. Instead, we are going to be in heaven with Him during this time, and the earth will be "laid waste" from His second coming. And only AFTER the 1000 years will we return to earth with Christ.
The rapture theory is a false teaching, and the Bible proves that fact.
Credits: www.end -times-prophecy.org

How can anyone say that Jesus is NOT going to set foot upon the earth during the second coming. That is most absurd as the scripture is quite clear on that both in the Old and new testament.
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
The Bible is FILLED with the promise of His COMING again and coming quickly, and then you virtually come to tell us that He is not coming?
He will come, and He will touch down and set foot on Mount Olives, and the scriptures cannot be broken.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

How can any believer say that Jesus will not reign on earth? What then are we praying Thy Kingdom come for? Please, finally, read Revelation 19 and 20. It is fairly straight. Jesus will come to earth, the beast will be captured, satan will be bound, saints will reign, satan will deceive, the judgement and the end of the world will happen. Amen.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

It is AFTER this end of the world and judgement that a new heaven and earth appear in Revelation 21. Jesus is coming soon, whether we believe in rapture or not, it is not too important. Let us live to glorigy Him, be watchful, prepared and prayerful.

otr1:
The Rapture Theory

What is the rapture theory? It is believed by those who hold to this theory (and there are MANY who do), that the "church" will be raptured away to heaven and then the earth will continue for a period of seven years (called the tribulation) in which the inhabitants of the earth will be plunged into a time of great trouble and strife (more so than now). So according to this teaching there is a separation to take place between the saved and the lost BEFORE the end of the world.
In this teaching we are also told that Christ will return in two "phases". The first will be a "quiet" affair with the saints being raptured away. And then the second phase after the seven year tribulation will be the "glorious, triumphant" return, which according to this teaching, will usher in the 1000 year millennial reignon earth.
Let me quickly show you an example of the weakness of the rapture doctrine - I came across a recent article stating '10 Irrefutable Proofs' for the rapture. Here are the first two 'irrefutable proofs' they quoted:
Number 1."THE RAPTURE IS THE 'BLESSED HOPE' WHILE THE SECOND COMING IS A DAY TO BE GREATLY FEARED"... They separate the rapture and second coming saying that the rapture is the 'blessed hope' quoting Titus 2:13, and the second coming is the 'FEARED day of the Lord', quoting Amos 5:18. They believe these must be different events, because one is to be hoped for, and the other is to be feared. But they fail to realize the simple truth that the second coming is the 'blessed hope' for the saved in Jesus, and to be 'greatly feared' by those who reject the Lord. Simple, logical truth.
Number 2."IN THE RAPTURE, JESUS COMES FOR HIS CHURCH, AT HIS SECOND COMING HE BRINGS THE CHURCH WITH HIM"... They say that Jesus takes His church away in the rapture, quoting 1 Thess. 4:16-17. And then Jesus comes back with the church at the second coming, quoting Revelation 19:14, which says 'the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses.". But what they fail to realize is that the 'armies' whom Jesus returns with are His angels, as Matthew 25:31 confirms, not the church.
The rest of the so called 'irrefutable proofs' are of the same mold. They are not proofs at all, but just twisting of scripture to suit their wrong belief. It's interesting that they also believe the 'antichrist' will not be revealed until AFTER the rapture. The Bible and historic Protestantism already revealed the antichrist.

i'll like to say and remind us that doctrine and its understanding does not 'save' anyone. That air of "I believe in rapture and understand it, therefore I am better than these others", or "I do not believe in rapture and i know Bible very well, therefore I am more spiritual or godly than these others", is not of God or from above. Rapture is a MYSTERY.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The second coming of Jesus is not a mystery, or unknown, or secret, or hidden, or puzzling. Everyone is aware. In fact, even Enoch was aware a long time ago as evidenced in his prophecy. The angels told about 500 people about the second coming at Christ's ascension, and many scriptures are quite open and clear about His coming again. It is the rapture that is not too clear, and you don't even need to understand it to please God or even partake. How much doctrine did the thief at the cross know before getting to paradise, i suppose not much. Knowledge does not necessarily edify but rather puffs up. Now, to respond directly to your post/point at the risk of not being lengthy. i'll remind from this quote that Jesus told us that believers are as angels in heaven. So, when Jesus comes back with His angels or saints, they can actually/really be believers. Consider that.
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Mar 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Bible Proof The Rapture Theory is False

Let us get one thing out of the way first. The word "rapture" is not found anywhere in the Bible. So where do they get the word from? It was coined from the words "caught up" found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. And we will deal with those verses later on.
What I would like to do is give pre-tribulation rapture teaching a Biblical smackdown and expose it's weakness. That Biblical knockout is found in Matthew, chapter 13. In this chapter, Christ Jesus is telling a parable and teaching a lesson concerning the events of the last days and the second coming. Let's look at what He says:
Matthew 13:24-30 ...'Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him,Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said,Nay; [NO] lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.'
Wow! I love the Word of God. So what are we told in the pre-tribulation rapture theory? We are told that Christ will "gather" His people BEFORE the tribulation and separate the "wheat and the tares" BEFORE the harvest. And yet what does it clearly state in the Bible verse above? That the separation only takes place AT the harvest.

The words "Bible, Trinity, demons, Rapture" are not found in the Bible(at least not in the KJV/AV), this does not rule out the existence and relevance of the concepts/meanings. Now, you do not form doctrine from parables. Time and space would not permit me to expatiate that. It is often a case of he who has ears to hear. The kingdom of God is several times likened to several things in the Bible. Taking each one of those several things literally will not help understanding. For instance, in the parable, if you put all men as wheat and tares only, who are the "men that slept"? Who are the servants of the householder? Other nagging questions can be raised and other parables can be brought up to counter and contradict. The point here is that you do not normally take a parable to form a doctrine.

"Oh but the rapture IS the harvest!"

Let's see what Jesus our Teacher say about this?
Matthew 13:38-40 ...'The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.'
Thank you Jesus for giving us the clear truth on this matter, so that we should not be deceived! Do you see the truth on this friend? The church and the wicked continue to live together on earth until the END OF THE WORLD. And it is only at the end of the world that the separation takes place. The pre-tribulation rapture theory is now blown to bits by the Word of God!
Take a look at these Bible verses and you will notice that the focus is NOT about the church being taken away before the end, but rather AT the end of the world and the LAST DAY.
John 6:40 ...'And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.'
John 11:24 ...'Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.'
John 12:48 ...'He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge himin the last day.'
Eternal life is given on the LAST DAY. The resurrection happens on the LAST DAY. Judgment is given on the LAST DAY.
Notice also what Jesus says in Matthew 28:20 ..."lo, I am with you always,even unto the end of the world."... Now why would Jesus reassure us that He would be with us until the END OF THE WORLD, if we were to be raptured away BEFORE the end of the world? Doesn't make sense does it? Friend, the rapture teaching is a false one invented by Satan to cause God's people to be unprepared for the time of trouble ahead, that we WILL go through.

This again is based on that one parable. Seems like there's that much ado about the parable than is needful. i do not know how the parable relates or if the parable relates to the rapture. But i am certain of this one below, it is no parable.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
There is a mystery, and we shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. That encapsulates what the rapture is about. It would happen in the twinkling of an eye. This is different from the event where EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM. That cannot happen in a moment. These ones are not parables.
Of course, the church and the wicked continue to live together on earth until the END OF THE WORLD. That's the point of the millenial 1000year reign. Who is the church coming to reign over before? Animals? No. After the tribulation, the church comes to earth with Jesus and reigns for a thousand years during which time Satan is bound. After Satan's release, he goes out to deceive people who are deceiveable. Of course, you can imagine the population growth and prosperity in a thousand year period where Jesus is reigning on earth with His saints. Not all of the people on earth will be born again or kings then, but since the tempter is locked up, there will be relative goodness. When the tempter comes, many will join him as tares. Then God will come and judge the earth. This is summarized kind of in revelations 19 and 20.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

hifaif:
I was reading a book by Bishop David Oyedepo titled The Healing Balm. In one of the chapters, Oyedepo said believers are not meant to fall sick because Jesus didn't fall sick.

But there is a passage in the bible that confirms or suggests that Jesus was most of the time unwell. Read Isaiah 53:1-12. In this passage, it is even revealed that Jesus was so ugly and sick almost all the time that men thought he was afflicted by God.

Sure, believers are not meant to fall sick, just like believers are not meant to sin, or be poor, or be defeated by satan, or lacking faith, or discouraged, or careless, or prayerless. That is God's ultimate plan and we can have the Kingdom of Heaven or at least a taste of the powers here on earth. There is no denial that many believers, even in the Bible, are sick, sin, poor, defeated, lacking faith, discouraged, careless and prayerless. However, it can be unto you according to your faith, trust in God, and revelation.
Did Jesus live a sickly, defeated life? Certainly not. Was Jesus overcome by sickness, i'm sure He was not. Was Jesus ever sick? i am not sure but i do not rule it out. Why? Because He lived here on earth with the human nature and feelings, and went through what we gop through, and He overcame.
Heb 4:15 For we have not a high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
So, He did take upon Himself the likeness of men, and BARE our sicknesses. If He bare our sicknesses, then definitely He was sick on the cross if not any other place. But does the Bible say that Jesus was most of the time unwell? No, it does not. Isaiah 52 ending and then 53 is a picture of the time of His Passion, which was just a couple of days. Jesus did not live for a couple of days on earth, He was here well over 30 years.

Isa 52:14 As many were astonished at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
This refers to how much He suffered and was disfigured worse than a common thief by the soldiers and others who smote and beat Him, and mocked and scorned Him before He was eventually crucified. The change and look was so much different from the Lord of glory that He is. His visage was that marred.

Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

This passage and the rest of the chapter clearly refers to His crucifixion saga. Else, in the same vein, if one interprets one phrase to mean His entire life or almost all the time, then in parallel the rest of the passage should be equally interpreted in the same context. But we all know that Jesus was not despised and rejected almost all the time. He was not in grief or sorrow all the time. He did not bear our griefs and sorrows, neither was He wounded for transgressions almost all the time. It was at the time around His passion.

MrP7:
What a load of rubbish, So for 8 weeks he had no idea who would be his ministers
Who advises him on petroleum, finance issues and others
For one he should sack his foreign affairs minister so he won't call Germany west Germany
Buhari is losing my respect every day
Maybe he can travel less

He does not need your respect. Of what good was your respect to the past administration. What he needs is your reasoning, patience and integrity.

ECOTERRORS:
I can abuse PMB to infinito but I can't get down to your level to abuse your dad. I hope you were on NL when GEJ was being abused so NEVER you try to make that statement again

That is one ridiculous viewpoint. Do you know that Buhari is also a dad and a grand dad? Do you realise that he is currently a father of the nation? You can't get " down" to insult a faceless forum member's dad, but you can abuse Nigeria's 73 year old president to infinito. Reason please.

WILSON:
BRO, BOKO HARAM STARTED DURING THE TIME OF YAR' 'A DUA NOT JONATHAN.

Boko Haram was neglected and trivialized by Jonathan's administration, allowing them to fester and become a monster headed hydra. Indeed, a stitch in time saves nine.

kingbus:
so he didn't know all these before he started campaigning and saying gej wasn't doing the job well?? So apc and buhari were not even prepared at all but yet they kept making promises of making 1 dollar equal to 1 naira Splendid ! Fantastic!! So it is now buhari is just studying the problem with nigeria?? Honestly u guys are doing a wor wor and shoddy job defending buhari.

Seems you're suffering from intellectual laziness for you to be making reference to rubbish about 1dollarequal 1naira. Knowing a problem is not the same as solving it. No serious person would take major decisions and plans based on rumour mongering.

discusant:
For the last 12 years, Buhari had sought to preside over Nigeria, if he had good programmes to revamp Nigeria, he should have had on his mind the names of Nigerians he wished to use for the job.

Of course he would have names in mind, who doesn't? However, things are more complex than that. He's trying to carry everyone along as it were. He'll need the best blend, avoiding sentimental criticism of how many north or east did he appoint. How many women. Who is Christian or Muslim etc. Those are peculiarities that determine perception here in Nigeria. The state of the economy and petroleum sector would also determine focus and priority. What you'll do with with $1million is not likely to be what you'll do with $1billion personally not to mention nationally. Also, it would influence how you'd position your ministers. Like should I make Fasola head power or works, or should he still be on the'bench' or handle Justice till December when I shake up non performing minister cabinet. ETC.

discusant:
Four years from now, Buhari shall say he does not know why people expect him to do miracles - over Nigeria.

The country was ruined by past military leaders.

But Buhari's intervention with sacking an elected government in 1983 set the stage for Nigeria's downward turn.

Oh, Nigeria was progressing before December 1983?

Ferdinandu:
Mr Man if you have to be in our shoes you have to be anxious to Know how the Person you appointed to turn around your ailing company will go about turning it around. Start work joor. You said you know the problems and how to fix it before we elected you. Our patience is limited.

He explained already. Whatever you're going to fix needs money. It's not just to know the problems and how to fix it. He should know the state of our economy, debts reserves and liabilities. Then the state of what is the major source of income (petroleum). It is after that he can adjust plans and priorities and fix ministers. That's proper planning and accountability.

bmxshop:
When do all this travels end?

After Cameroun na. It's 'pure mas'. It's only logical and diplomatic that he visits Cameroun. Relationship between Nigeria and Cameroun is tense. If you notice too, Biya didn't come for inauguration or to congratulate Buhari. He also snubbed the Commission meeting by sending someone while all other presidents came, including Benin that shouldn't even be as concerned.

alexis007:
Religious issues are usually hyper-sensitive, and i always tried my best possible to stay clear off them, God helping me, till one day, in a contemplative moment....I asked myself.....

If God knew the beginning from the end, like they say, What is my life then?an existence shaped by choice?or a programmed movie before God?

Is my free will real or illusive?Do i sin because i wish to sin, or because a greater force influence me and make me act according to his caprices?

God cannot know/destine that I am going to be bad from the outset and expect me to act "Saint Augustine". The book of Jeremiah chapter one verse five doesn't help matters in the least. If imperfection is what He has endowed me with, then imperfection is how i would live and act.

Meanwhile, i do not think i exist on earth like a programmed movie to a control freak. I am responsible, first to myself, and then to those around me. If God a.k.a. movie-maker wants a film he can catch fun with, I can borrow him the latest edition of the 'Fast and furious' series. All he need do is to stretch his big hand from the sky and collect it.

Disclaimer: I am not an atheist. I am just one insignificant voice who thinks that the "God" depicted in the Bible was portrayed wrongly, from an ethical and moral perspective. As for the Apocalypse, I am waiting for Lord Jesus to punish me in the lake of fire that burns with sulphur and brimstone. Why should i inherit the kingdom of God, by the way, when according to the book of Revelation 144,000 only in all humans that have existed have been destined to enter Paradise? IS IT MY FAULT THAT I WASN'T PREDESTINED ALSO?

It's simple but may God give understanding. Its like when a Doctor knows the end of a pregnancy from the beginning through scan,charts and other means. Only that God's more precise and intricate. While the doctor knows, he doesn't exactly determine. Its an all things being equal case. The pregnant woman can still influence things knowingly and accidentally. Also, the doctor can influence things.