₦airaland Forum

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Mark Miwerds: please point to any Scripture in the Bible that says fish were tithed. I find land increase thithed, i.e.; the seed of the land, the fruit of the tree. I find livestock tithed. But for the life of me, I cannot find anything that says fishermen tithed.

There is no scripture that says they did not. How hard is this basic statement to understand. One cnnot insist that they did not without concrete evidence as it were. For the life of me, i do not find any scripture that says Jesus ever shaved His hair.

Pastor Kun: The onus is on you to prove to us that fishermen tithed cause as far as scriptures is concerned God never instructed them to tithe of their fish and saying they did is simply adding to scripture the same way modern tithe pimps tell us God expects tithes of our monetary income.

Onus? It is on the persons who insist that God does not accept tithe to show us where God said that. As far as we know, people have given tithes of non agric produce and Gd accepted. There is no incidence of God rejecting tithes because it is non agric. We have seen Abraham and Jacob tithe non agric. The scribes gave tithe, so why not the fishermen?

Zikkyy: Now why would a fisherman tithe if God did not include him in the list. I wonder how some people reason. So if the president changes his cabinet today and provides a list of ministerial appointees, because the president did not say Image123 is not one of the appointees, you will go to Abuja and resume as a minister



God already told you what is holy to him. You want to add to it are you now God to decide for him? on what authority do you decide what is Holy to the Lord? since the passage did not limit God's tithe, you are saying we are now free to decide what is Holy to the Lord? can we now say tithe from prosti.tution or robbery is holy to the Lord? can you just listen to your self

Whatever you devote is holy unto God. It is the temple that sanctifies the gift, go and read zikky. So in your analogy now, God is the president, agric tithes are ministers, Image123 is the unappointed, where is the fish tithe. Indeed, you might be added to the list of comedians, to be mild.

Mark Miwerds: I pointed to Genesis 4 in an attempt to show you that there were other occupations besides farming and herding. Tubalcain was a teacher who taught people how to work with brass. Noah (chapter 6) was a carpenter before the flood Yet no mention of either of these ever paying, or even giving tithes to anyone.

Later chapters in Genesis reveal tentmakers, bakers, butchers, brickmasons, and many other occupations. None of which are said to have paid, or even given, tithes.

None, that is, except Abram, and the farmers and herders of ancient Israel. Who, of course, is never said to have tithed of his own riches.

Of interest, why do you suppose it was only Abram that tithed to Melchizedek? Why not Aner, Eschol, and Mamre who obviously had assisted Abram in the Battle against the rebelling kings?

Did Abram's tithe represent all the people? How does that compare to each individual being required to tithe in the Church today? Only one of those men tithed... and that, not of his own property.

There was no argument that there were other professions. The question was for you to show us the Bible that you cllaimed to prohibit fishermen from givin tithes. Are you a child of Mamre or what are you asking? Folks should learn to ask questions for understanding, not foolish questions like sadducces. How do you conclude that all the others did not give? Is there record that they gave any offering or sacrifice or prayed or gave birth or died. So if something is not recorded, it must be concluded that it never happened? i'm waiting for that verse you said, or you tell us that you were mistaken in presumption.

Alwaystrue: @Image123,
thanks for completing the expose. God bless you. Jesus words are truly the way...He is the Word that came in the Flesh, full of grace and truth. May our thoughts, our words and our actions continually reflect Jesus and yield the fruits He desires. Amen.

Amen, thanks.

Mark Miwerds: maybe we can tithe sand? Or marbles? Better yet, tithe the dust that keeps accumulating on a daily basis?

These tithers should just stick to the Word of God, and leave their vain imaginations out of the equation.

One would have imagined that by now, you would have produced or shown that Bible support that you say are not rocket science, and which you clim to be in Genesis 4 and reading on through many chapters. If it were possible for you sef, you will tell us Abraham's tithe is unacceptable to you. i'm waiting Mark.

thehomer: Get back to me when you're ready to worship Brahma. I've gotten bored with your whining and complaining when shown the implications of what your Bible says.
When you're better able to face the quotes I've given you already, let me know.

Get back to you? We are still expecting concrete proof for your many ridiculous assumptions and inferences. Humble yourself, note your mistakes and presumptions(especially the unguarded and unfounded quotes fron Ingersoll), give repentance a thought instead of going to ask other atheists and internet for answers. Think for yourself, see your relatives and elders who have achieved greater than you have and ever can, observe that they are wise enough to believe in a God.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Yea, yea, the unfortunate major of the chapter. Quite ironic that Jesus was actually exhorting that it should not be a major. However, the majority have associated the whole chapter as talking tithe. In fact, that is the only thing that most are interested in talking in this beautiful chapter.
Again, Jesus told us that Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.'That's just a chapter away BTW. Paul also told us that
1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.
The words of Jesus are Spirit and Life, all of them. It is unchristian and sacrilege for anyone by whatever name or respect to come tell us that some words of Jesus are not wholesome words, or that some of Jesus' words have passed away, or that we should disdain anything or some things spoken by Jesus before He was killed. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Whatever He approved of before Acts 2, or wherever folks want us to start taking the Bible serious from, He still approves today and forever. Whatever He disapproves of and condemns before Acts 2, He still disapproves of and condemns now and forever. He is the One who was, and is, and is to come. Time is in His hands, and He is not confined to any dispensation or time, as He is the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. He is the Lord of the Sabbath and of the Harvest. He is the One who can forgive sins, our Passover.
Jesus declares woe on the scribes and pharisees, why? Because they were hypocrites. They were majoring on the minor. How were they majoring on the minor? Verse 23 is one way. They were diligent with a minor matter of the law, but they neglected the weightier and major part of the law. The same woe awaits any hypocrite today, who lives to major on minors. The pharisees and scribes paid tithe of anise, cummin and mint. Payment of tithe was done by scribes. Who would have thought that scribes paid tithe. The assumption we are being fed is that only farmers paid tithe, that other occupations did not. Yet the pharisees and scribes paid tithe. A pharisee said he gave tithe of all his income.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
(CEV) I go without eating for two days a week, and I give you one tenth of all I earn."
(Darby) I fast twice in the week, I tithe everything I gain.
(DRB) I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess.
(GNB) I fast two days a week, and I give you one tenth of all my income.'
(ISV) I fast twice a week, and I give a tenth of my entire income.'
(LITV) I fast twice on the sabbath; I tithe all things, as many as I get.

The point is that it was not uncommon or unusual for people to give tithes of all things in Jesus' days. God never rejected or rejects tithe of all things. Their father Abraham also gave tithes of all. God did not reject it or say "I want only agric. produce from the holy land".
Mint, anise and cummin are flavouring or seasoning. i think it is anise or so that is also called dill weed. They are not a major harvest, just little gardening. But the scribes and pharisees went the extra mile to even give tithe of these. In other words, they fulfilled the tithe commands to the minutest detail, but neglected the more important commands. The more important or weightier parts of the law are mercy, judgement and faith.
Do many people even believe that? That the weightier matters of the law are, judgment, mercy, and faith? Because many preach about not being under the law, and what they usually refer to are the insignificant parts of the law. This verse goes to show that many of us have our understanding and perspective twisted, and we need Jesus to once again open our understanding that we might understand the scriptures.
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures,
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.
Come to think of it, Jesus was not having a particular perspective of being under the law in mind. He was talking eternally. What mattered to Him still matter today and forever. Judgement or justice is still justice. There is no real demarcation of this is justice of under the law, and another justice of new testament. The difference is grace. There is no real demarcation of this is mercy of under the law, and another mercy of new testament. blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. It is the same goodness and mercy that is following us that followed them. We have the same spirit of faith, says Paul. It is theologISTS that are making carnal demarcations and telling us that new testament mercy has to be different from old testament mercy, or that new testament tithe has to be different from old testament tithe. And then they end up stating that there should not even be anything like new testament tithes, further confusing themselves. For the normal christian, ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Jesus said these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. That is commendation. He is saying give the tithe, and do not leave judgement, mercy and faith undone. He wants 100/100, perfection. Be ye therefore perfect.
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

If any man loves Jesus, he will keep His words.

Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

This is a paraphrase of verse 23. The scribes and pharisees majored on minors. They strained and fussed over irrelevant things. A gnat is a small fly. Compare the size of a small fly to a camel. The hypocrites strained at a gnat, complained and criticised to see a gnat. They would condemn the whole thing because of a gnat. But they swallowed a camel, a much bigger animal. They had no complaints or issues or bickerings. Ever heard the phrase on this forum that tithes is the BIGGEST fraud in human history or something like that? That's what we are talking about. As a matter of fact, i have seen folks here on NL say that thousands of threads should be opened to talk against tithes. But Jesus talked of more important things, judgement, mercy and faith. The apostles had no such time. In fact, there was a place in scriptures where some people wanted them to dedicate themselves to charity works and taking care of neglected widows. They said no, we will give ourselves to prayers and to preaching the Word. Concerning giving, some even wrote that it was not needed to write about. It was like coming to teach graduates basic addition.
1Th 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

Why would a person who is giving 100% be admonished to give or to love? The apostles had more important things to say than to dwell on trivialities, and talk and talk circularly for pages about kindergaten stuff. Sinners are perishing daily, and some of them are here on NL, even on the religion section. Folks want to know about God and about His love, about living a victorious christian life, about eternity. But many only show up to talk and talk about tithes, or about how one man somewhere is not showing them love. Meanwhile, they are wining and dining, and laughing and jesting with sin and sinners daily on all the social media available.

Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

This is still relevant to every one in every age. Hypocrisy courts woe from the Lord. There is nothing wrong with making the outside of the cup clean. Of course, the outside of the cup should be clean. But the within, the inside should also be clean. Clean the inside too. In fact, clean the inside first. The inside is MORE important than the outside. God is not saying that the ouside should not be clean, but that the two should be clean. God sees both the outside and the inside. man likes show, we look at and love to see the outside. but God wants the two clean. It is hypocrisy and deception for the outside to be clean and the inside dirty.

Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

This is still the same train of thought being followed by Christ. The hypocisy. It is not about being under the law or before Jesus died. It is not about old covenant or new covenant, or about pharisee or christian. God hates hypocrisy. God detests double standard and He is not a respecter of persons. If hypocrisy is found in a christian, it will not be excused by Christ. Jesus told the church that they should take time or else, He would remove the candlestick from them(Revelation 2&3). The pharisees were like selpulchres. Sepulchres are graves, coffins. They are fine on the outside. Some coffins are very costly and beautifully carved. Some are decorated and whited(made white), painted white. That was how the pharisees were. The outside was good, white, well painted and carved or sculpted, BEAUTIFUL outward. But their inside was dirty, polluted, sinful and corrupt. They were stinking inside, full of dead men's bones, like a coffin or sepulchre, unclean. God wants us to be pure and beautiful, inside and outside.

Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

it is not wrong to appear righteous to men. God is not advocating that we should appear unrighteous to men. He says that we should let our lights and righteousness SO shine before men. He wants men to see our good works and glorify God. Jesus is here saying that our righteousness should not only be before men, but also before God. God sees the inside, the within, the heart. The scriptures does not say that He does not see the outside. He does, but His emphasis is on the inside. We should not neglect any part. Some people go on the inverse of the pharisee, and make the outward hideous. they claim that they are only serving God and only God knows that they are serving Him. There outward is not beautiful, but they CLAIM that their inward is, that it is between them and God. This is still hypocrisy and deception. Let your inside and your outside be pure. Let your heart and your body be pure. Your body is the temple of God.

Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchers of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

hypocrites are very quick to condemn others. They claim to be able to do better than others. They are always looking out for the fall of others, the blame of the pastor, prophet and other christians. They never seem to see any fault in their own life, or they ready excuse it with some wave of the hand point. Now, it is clear that Jesus was not just talking to a particular sect, but to the whole of Israel. He is not referring to the biological fathers of the pharisees and scribes but to the Israel ancestors, who had persecuted God's people. And then He goes on to reject them. who was He rejecting? pharisees or Israel? Israel. The multitude mentioned in verse 1 represent the Israelites. Inside that multitude, we had people from different sects, but all children of Israel.

Mark Miwerds: God has opened my eyes. Your worship is in vain.

WHAT! Who gave you the authority to make this judgement? A believer's worship is vain because the person gives tithes?

Enigma: ^^^ In like manner, give us one Bible passage where it says Christians should tithe money and that it should be paid into "church".

Give us one passage that says tithes cannot go to the poor or to an orphanage or to an old people's home etc!

Would you give us the Bible passage that says Christians should not tithe money? No one has taught that tithes cannot go to the poor or to an orphanage or to an old people's home. There is room for such and this is plainly taught in Deuteronomy 14v28,29.

Mark Miwerds: no, couldn't have me competing with you in the assumptions department. No worries though. I am not assuming.

Leviticus 27:30-33 gives the contents of God's Holy tithe. Fish were not tithed.

Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Lev 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
Lev 27:33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Question says "Give us bible support that says that fishermen should not tithe." The above passage does not say that, neither does it limit God's tithe to the passage. If it had said ONLY verse 30-33 are God's tithe, you would have a case for this verse.

thehomer: The verses that talk about most of the people on earth going to hell imply this basic fact. You're welcome.

Billions of literates did not come to such a conclusion, kindly show us the verse that implies this basic fact. thanks.

The Bible says and recommends so many terrible things that you're unable to see because of your the God glasses you have on. No I cannot compare myself to the sorts of evil actions and activities your God has recommended to be carried out.

Another round of assumptions and implyings i guess. Do you have anything concrete to say or you are just frustrated? Mention just 10 out of the SO MANY terrible things that the Bible recommends YOU to do.
You were initially comparing yourself and wannabes to God as owner of all things, find a means of staying on track/point.

He thought it could hold 2 of every animal or didn't you know that too? No he didn't. Or can you show me anywhere in the Bible that he mentioned those lands? Do you inject yourself with liquefied cow dung?

You see why i need to ask if you smoke pot? You first said that God thought that Noah's boat could hold all animals, now you are saying that God thought it could hold 2 of every animal. i would not be surprised if you cannot see the difference in your statements. Now that you cannot show where God thought that Noah's boat could hold all animals, but now say 2, do you not think that it is possible? i think it is possible and that is what happened. i do not recall my ever mentioning Australia or America or Uganda to you in all our conversations. i guess to you, that is proof that i do not know about such places.
BTW, are you aware of the various cultures 'legends' of this particular flood?

The earth is spherical. Your God thought it was flat as can be inferred from this passage
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. - Matthew 4:8.

You inferred bollocks and then lay claims that God thought? i have NEVER made such a dull inference in all my life of reading that passage, neither have i heard anyone who did. You are the first. Here is the parallel and complimentary scripture for your understanding.
Luk 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
The phrase "in a moment of time" rightly infers that it was a sort of vision that the devil gave, of ALL the kingdoms of the world. Another passage in Isaiah rightly states the shape of the earth as Isaiah saw it. i guess you deleted that verse from your memory as i am sure you have read it before.

Hitler wasn't an atheist. And what you've said makes no more sense than saying that the biggest war crimes have been committed by people with hair. Please can you quote Nietzche recommending death camps?

You implied that God is the cause of wars, that you need to do something about His influence(a ludicrous joke BTW). Now, i replied by showing you what your types have done concerning war. Nietzche's writings and ideologies greatly influenced Stalin and Hitler, do read.

You must be a joker. Holding a person hostage by holding keeping their family is a good thing? No wonder you're unable to tell right from wrong. Slavery being worldwide doesn't make it right for your God to recommend it. Many of the abolitionists weren't Christians too and many of the slave holders were Christians. God never commanded a freedom of religious worship, he never commanded freedom of thought, he never commanded a freedom from slavery.

i believe you are talking about captives of war? What do you suggest as the good thing to have been done for them, annihilation like in the case of Amalek? Hate it or love it, God's recommendations of treatment was the best obtainable. It was so good that a slave could say he wanted to remain with his master forever. It was so good that all servants were released every year of jubilee. Your atheist ancestors did worse. The heart of man is evil and desperately wicked, and God gave the right treatment in due time, when Jesus came. It goes to show the necessity of Christ's coming to restore man from his fall. Ask or observe any developer, development is in stages. Windows 7 operating system cannot run on a Windows 3.0 computer. The hardware cannot even carry it. The developer can only give best practices for that system, but it cannot make it equal to a modern day core7. When Christ came, He made a new and living way, and spread the good news and there came in the grace, peace and civility that we are all reaping from today.
Freedom is not free. What is freedom of religious worship? Have you ever seen any sensible organisation that allows its workers freedom to go work some other place, a rival place for that matter? God created man to worship HIM, how sensible will it be for Him to permit man to go worship another? What is the good thing about freedom of worship? BTW, you are fighting for as you are not comfortable with me serving or worshipping God. You are not in union with the way the muslins worship, are you?
What is freedom of thought? Sounds like a vacant expression. Is it freedom to think anything you feel like? Like thinking of killing millions in gas chambers, or of rap.ing, or of robbery? Is freedom of thought another word for insanity or anarchy? Please explain BRIEFLY what is meant by this freedom of thought that you claim to be fighting for, and lets know how good it is.
What is freedom from slavery? i need to ask because there are many practices in our world not termed slavery but which are equal to or worse than slavery. People all over the world are in one sort of bond or the other. The main issue should not be the name, but the treatment. how do you treat your fellow humans? Your workers, strangers, etc? How are the prisons? Are people free from sickness, debt, working from 6am to 9pm etc? How much is their compensation? Are they faring better than Abraham's servants?

Billions of people find solace and joy in drinking alcohol. Still doesn't make that the best approach. How about what was created first? Humans or animals or plants? Is that information of importance? Is Jesus' genealogy information of importance? If you can just declare anything you don't like information of little importance, then I may as well say it generally contains information of little importance.

Still undeniable that billions of people have seen God as a source of hope, joy, turning a disadvantage into an advantage. they have found it so, and so have i. i have explained to you what i mean by wrong information of importance, it is not just anything that i do not like. i specifically mentioned numerical contradictions. You are literate, please live it.
What was created first, and how do you know this? Don't tell me by assumption or educated GUESS again. How is that important to the majority or to saving anyone? i found the Bible to be true in its accurate description of the human, the world, evil and good. i found it to be true in the solutions that it offered; the solution for sin, for peace, for prosperity and for healing. Jesus' geneology is correct and does its job of showing/telling that Jesus was born of jewish origins from the tribe of Judah according to God's promise.

Embarrassing me will be a step in saving me.

Jesus has done all that is needed to save you, what is remaining is that YOU believe Him and repent.

I never said abortion wasn't killing. I also notice that you're not against killing living things so why do you complain when I show you that your God is perfectly happy killing living things and people?

You are saying that God is wrong and evil if He kills. i am telling you, NO. You have been unable to show that God is perfectly happy killing living things and people. On the contrary, the Bible clearly states otherwise.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

The Bible is very clear, unlike your hazy assumptions and inferences. You know that abortion is killing and you support it, the killing of babies, millions of them annually. Are you good?

Will God be sending them to hell? Will you send someone you love to hell? You never showed me that God loves atheists, you merely say that he does.

God loves you and says so. Read John 3v16. He sent Jesus Christ to die for you. That is love. He did not need to. He could simply have condemned the all of humanity as a failed project, but He has saved many of us, and He is willing to save you.
Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
i would not force someone who i made to love me but refused to love me to stay with me for all eternity, will you? If you produced something, and it got spoilt, what do you do? i try to repair it, and if it is irreparable, i destroy it. What do you do?

So if someone mocks you, you'll show them your love by making a bear kill them all? What a strange notion of love you have.

If 42 youths mock a old and respected prophet without provocation, they deserve whatever they get. They are not useful for anything good, and it will be good riddance to bad rubbish for the society. However, no one should take the law into his/her hands. If God judges such sons of Belial, i am in full support, this is love. Do you support the punishment of terrorists or you so much love them that you think they should live scot free? i know you will not answer most of these questions as is your custom.

I'm not preaching, I'm simply showing you that you've not considered the option of Brahma.

i know that already. You that you've not considered the option of Brahma, i do not have the job of showing you such irrelevance.

Where does your Bible define "temperance"?

In the life of Christ. He had the Spirit and His fruits, true temperance is one of them.

Do you know what the underground is? Have you ever lived there?

No i do not and i have not. So, do you know what a rural area is? Have you ever lived in one?

I'm simply reporting what Brahma offers to you. Take it or leave it.
I don't want what your God is selling because they're unimportant. You should focus on important stuff like Nirvana.

You are talking with Brahma as your authority?
God offers you rest, victory, heaven, eternal life, salvation from sin, redemption, cleansing, deliverance. You have gone from saying that you have all these to you do not want as they are not important. Quite fickle. This is why i initially stated that you lacked base. Your reasonings, decisions and morality are baseless and without focus. They are based on assumptions and whims and caprices.

Then you don't know what irrefutable means because the claims that snakes and donkeys spoke human languages to humans, humans lived in fish, dead people walked round a city are refutable claims.
The Bible implies that your God created man to send most of these humans to hell for eternity.

You need help in basic focus. i showed you irrefutable proofs of God's purposes for man. i showed verses that stated these purposes. i have shown Bible passages that CERTAINLY say this. You have been unable to show any verse that tell us that God's purpose is A or B, you have only being making assumptions and quoting an assuming Ingersoll.
We were not talking about miracles, get an handle and focus.

What Jesus taught was different from what most Jews believed and most Jews did not believe him.

You initially stated that what Jesus taught was different from what the Jews believed, now it is MOST Jews. After i showed you that some Jews thousands, believed Jesus. You have been unable to show the Bible command that Jesus broke that justified His crucifixion according to Ingersoll.

I said Jesus taught something different and he said people should worship him and he is a different God. I see that you're once more demonstrating your difficulty in reading and understanding simple passages. Your refusal to even think a bit reveals how you can hold these contradictory ideas and not find the contradictions. Think for yourself man.

Where did Jesus say that people should worship Him? How is He a different God? Two questions i am certain you will not answer. You make baseless and unfounded claims, always try to verify what you read, especially what you read from Ingersoll.

It is involuntary for the mother not for your God. No, humans are not for God to kill. You support your God killing 1 in every 4 pregnancies.

God is not responsible for miscarriages. i want to believe this is not another one of your unverifiable assumptions. What a waste of faith, You believe a lot of rubbish.

Unless you worship Brahma, you cannot have Nirvana so, do you worship Brahma? I've already told you that you don't unless you mean you worship Brahma. Your disagreeing with me is merely a waste of bandwidth.

What is nirvana again?

You're answering a different question. If you have no issues with God killing people, then why are you complaining? Maybe God told those women to carry out the abortions. So what if aborted babies are humans? The mothers own their bodies.

There was no question. You said "You have no issues with God choosing to kill babies. Fertilized eggs and bacteria are living things."
And i said yes i have no issues with God. Then i asked you a question which you failed to answer. Here it is again. You have NO ISSUES with millions of women choosing to kill babies, do you?
You are the one that opened the thread, you are the one complaining about God killing people. i am only showing you that you are the real problem. You support millions of babies being killed annually as far as the name is abortion. Now, you are saying "So what if aborted babies are humans? " You do not get it, right? You see no wrong in these humans being killed annually, but you have a problem with something that was done thousands of years ago which is not even up to a tenth of what you approve/support.

Aww is it because it wasn't in Jerusalem that you're crying? Well that isn't wrong information of importance and as usual, you missed the point of that quote. Do I have to spell it out again to you or do you want to read through it again to extract his point?
Brahma is good, He is your Creator. Start worshiping him today.

It took you that long to see the bolded. Well, thank God you can now see it. Ingersoll made a mistake of saying it was in Jerusalem. It is important as it shows that Ingersoll has no proper grasp of what he is criticising. Almost all the quotes you've given from Ingersoll have been flawed in perspective. It will be better if you studied the Bible for yourself, and asked genuine questions borne out of study. The quotes other points have been addressed. It is evident today, there are many 'testimonies from the dead', even here on NL. Have you believed them, have you taken the pains or efforts to go ask them all these questions you dream of asking? Ingersoll said "if there was a man in this town that had been raised from the dead, I would go to see him tonight."
Have you done anything similar except to lazily quote others? Take the effort to go to the crusades, see things for your self, interview the testifiers etc. Don't just sit oneplace nodding to every CO2 coming out of Ingersoll and Russell or youtube. Wake up to reality.
i doubt if Brahma makes all these claims you are helping it with. God has saved me, and He is willing to save you.

Mark Miwerds: the biblical support can be found beginning in GEnesis 4 and reading on.through many chapters.

Leviticus 27 reveals that tithes were of the seed of the ground (crops) the fruit of the trees (crops and oils) and every tenth animal of the flocks and herds that passed under the rod.

All the rest of the tithing Scriptures in the Old Testament testify to the fact that tithes were food and to be eaten.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a carpenter sawing wood is not required to tithe. Fishermen also exempt. Masons, bakers, etc., all exempt from the tithe Law because they had no crops to tithe.

hahahahahaha, pathetic and yet funny. Genesis4 and reading on through many chapters? What does that even mean? Give us bible support that says that fishermen should not tithe. i do not need rocket science, just plain bible support, thanks. Don't make me conclude that ou have been presumptuously teaching for doctrine, the assumptions of men oh.

Image123: What are the ordinances, please break down the grammar. Are judgement, mercy and faith among these ordinances? Is love for one's neighbour among the ordinances. The apostles plainly taught about meats, idols, circumcision, and whatever else they saw was an hindrance to the new covenant life. Did they forget to teach against the tithe? Were there not believers who were zealous of the law? Did Paul not claim to be an observer of the law, and that beleivers should follow him?
Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Do you recall the man Ananais? The man who came to see Paul after Jesus appeared to him? Hear about him oh.
Act 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
(CEV) In that city there was a man named Ananias, who faithfully obeyed the Law of Moses and was well liked by all the Jewish people living there.
You sabi pass Paul and Ananias abi?

Mark Miwerds: By the way, I found the verse you was trying to quote. You were using the NIV. Quite different from the KJV.

Paul did say he believed the Law and the Prophets. So what

I believe the Law and the Prophets too. The Law said the tithes were for the children of Israel. It did not say the tithe was for Gentile nations.
The Law said the tithe was to be eaten also. You continue to dismiss that fact while I believe it and preach it.

Notice that i already posted that verse directly to you about 24hrs ago. Yet, you first claimed to Bidam that there was no such verse before this new discovery. You are not paying attention, evidently.

Mark Miwerds: artificers of brass, tentmakers, butchers, bakers, carpenters, stonemasons; these are but a few of the occupations that were in ancient Israel. They were not all farmers, herders and fishermen.

By the way, fisherment were not required to tithe either. Their increase was from the sea.

Any Biblical support for this claim, or is it yet another spurious claim founded on presumption?

Alwaystrue: @swtchicgurl,
Thank God.

@Image123,
I was wondering why you did not complete this all this while. Many questions have been answered on the 'Tithes and Offerings: An Eternal Principle' thread...Did you take time to go through it?
It is obvious many seem to be ever learning but not coming to the knowledge of the TRUTH.
I pray the Lord will soften their hearts to allow His WORD to penetrate. Indeed, circumcision is of the heart....so many layers of hate, anger and unbelief.

No vex my lady. i am going to improve.
I'll go and read it today

Goshen360: ^ The 'words' of Christ is not just what came out of his mouth. If that's what it means, there are many things that came out of Christ's mouth as words that we\you cannot do today. If I start to point them out now, you will say it's metaphoric and so on. The words of Christ means his 'teachings'.

1 Timothy 6:3
Expanded Bible (EXB)
Anyone who has a different teaching and does not agree with the ·true teaching [sound/healthy words] of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that ·shows the true way to serve God [promotes piety/godliness]

Amplified Bible (AMP)
3 But if anyone teaches otherwise and does not [a]assent to the sound and wholesome messages of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and the teaching which is in agreement with godliness (piety toward God),

Those words in red in the red letter Bible are the words of Jesus. No one hs said that those are the only words of Jesus so i do not understand your premise. There is no need to kick against the pricks as it were.

Mat 23:18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

A parallel reference of what the blind guides did. To the guides, swearing by the temple or by the altar was nothing. No big deal. But swearing by the gold or the gift made one guilty, a debtor. Again, the swearing act itself makes man guilty.
Jam 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
However the point being drawn is the blindness and folly in thinking and taking the gift to be of more value than the Altar or temple. Today too, people worship and serve God's gifts above God, this should not be so. Gain, gold, gifts is not the standard for godliness. Respect the temple, respect the altar, respect the Body of Christ above all these. Do not because of gold, gifts and gains desecrate and embarrass the Body of Christ.

Mat 23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift

Again, the altar is greater than the gift. It is the altar that sanctifies the gift. No matter how great, expensive and precious the gift is. It is not a situation of location. Some folks teach that a gift from Israel is holy or sanctified, that any gift from outside Israel land is not holy. It is the same spirit, thinking and ideology that practices holy water, holy olive oil, holy etc from Israel or Jerusalem. It is the temple, God that dwells in the temple, the Body of Christ, that makes anything holy.
Never forget this basic truth.

Mat 23:20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
Mat 23:21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
Mat 23:22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

Here is a summary of the points implied in the previous four verses, as it were. Jesus is the way, the Truth, and the Life. His words are settled in Heaven forever. What He has stated here is truth yesterday, today and forever. There is nothing He says that is truth under the law and falsehood under grace. There is nothing He says that passes away after His death. As a statement of fact, He said,
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

These verses are very important, because we have folks here on NL committing the sacrilege of disdaining the words of Jesus Christ before He died on calvary. i do not understand where they got such new 'light'. None of the apostles says or implies such things of Jesus Christ. Infact, the famously liberal Paul the apostle says,
1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
if these is not enough to warn or jolt anybody, perhaps the person is not just sleeping or careless, but dead.

Continuing from where i stopped on discussing Matthew 23, questions and sensible discussions are welcome. Again, we will do well to visit the chapter, meditate on it, pray on it, and ask God to explain His Words to us. Matthew 23 contains 39 verses, 38 verses there are direct words of Jesus. i implore us all to not just come to this thread to scorn, or mock, or try to catch folks in their words. But to aim at edification and understanding and growing more to be like Jesus. Please, contribute.

Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

Jesus pronounced woe on blind guides. He is the Judge of all men and not a respecter of persons. The Jewish elders had a high opinion of themselves as being Abraham's children and custodians of the law of God. But they received stern rebuke and condemnation from Christ. Christians today should fear and be warned. There a christians that have the attitude of " a whole me, bought by the blood of Jesus, body of Christ". It is the same way the Israelites were high minded about being jewish and descendants of Abraham. They woke up every morning to thank God for being a jew. But Jesus came, found their works wanting, and declared woe on them. He also showed that woe and condemnation was not limited to pharisees or scribes. If a Sadducee or an Herodian or a Gentile did the same thing, He would declare Woe. If a disciple did the same thing, He would declare woe. He declared woe on Judas, a close disciple, when Judas 'misfired'.
woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed(matthew26). In Luke 6, Jesus declared Woe on the rich and full who would not accept Him but were self righteous. Jude makes it clear, if anybody(christian or no christian) goes in the way of Cain, and run greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perish in the gainsaying of Korah, such a fellow is courting woe. So also does every blind guide.
The blind guides/leaders in Jesus'time said whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor. In the first place, there should be no swearing as Jesus says Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
But this guides respected the gold above the temple. They did not take matters of money lightly, but the temple was not that important. We should learn from this to respect the temple(the Body of Christ) above material things and wealth. Many people do not care to do damage and loss and irreverence to the temple. They do not care the strife they generate or the party spirit they exhibit. All they want to trash out is the gold.

Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

Again, here is Jesus as the Judge of the world. He is the Lion and the Lamb. He is meek and lowly, and wants us to be meek and lowly. But as Judge, we are not to judge. He commands, Judge not.
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Followers of Jesus are not expected to call others 'fools' or any such name. Those rights belong to God who has fearfully and wonderfully made all men.
Jesus says that the temple is greater than the gold. Infact, it is the temple that sanctifies the gold. It is the temple that makes the gold holy. It is not location that makes the gift holy, but the temple.

thehomer: The Bible implies it with its contents. Anyone who can read and think can see this basic fact even if you're unwilling or unable to see it.

Kindly show us where the Bible implies that God's purpose for creating man is to send him to hell. Billions of literates did not come to such a conclusion, kindly show us the verse that implies this basic fact. thanks.

You should check out Brahma's word and the Qur'an. They tell you that at the very least, your God had nothing to do with anything.
Secondly, your God knows very little about humans that is why he thought that Noah's boat could hold all animals, that there was a flood and he didn't know about Australia and the Americas. How can a God create the world and not know what it contains?

The Bible says it so well, better and more correct and current than any other book. great men every where cannot do without the Bible, it is a MUST HAVE, and most read and study for every knowledgeable person in every generation. You cannot compare with yourself or wannabes who do not know much about humanity and who have not made the claims that the most High has made. None has given so great salvation as the Only wise God.
You come with yet another attempt to distract issues as usual. Humour me, kindly show where God thought that Noah's boat could hold all animals, he didn't know about Australia and the Americas. i guess you are assuming as usual. Do you smoke?

This is the creed of the Congregational Church; that is, it is the result of the high-joint commission appointed to draw up a creed for churches; and there we have the statement that the bible was written "by men, under the special guidance of the Holy Spirit." What part of the bible? All of it; all of it; and yet what is this old testament that was written by an infinitely good God? The being who wrote it did not know the shape of the world He had made. The being who wrote it knew nothing of human nature; He commands men to love Him, as if one could love upon command. The same God upheld the institution of human slavery; and the church says the bible that upholds that institution was written by men under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Then I disagree with the Holy Ghost upon that institution.
- Ingersoll's Lecture on "Orthodoxy"

What is the shape of the earth, and what shape did God call it? Kindly state the Bible passage.

Yes. We know of his influence in wars and support of slavery. That is why people must work to nullify the effects of this mythical entity.

You will need to work hard, very hard. The biggest wars and crimes have being committed by atheists like Stalin and Hitler, and other such unbelievers. The writings of folks like Nietzche influenced nazi behaviour and their value for human life. The results are plain for all to see in their death camps.
What is slavery? Last time i checked, the treatments God recommended for slaves was so good some slaves made decisions to live under their masters forever. Many positions and situations today are much worse than the slavery that obtained in the Bible. Abraham's slave would feed many of my countrymen for instance. You need to update yourself on the new testament God sent to man. Slavery was a worldwide event, not something that God brought or started. Many of the abolitionists were christians, you are late as usual. You're just waking up to a civilisation that was already preached in scriptures thousands of years ago. Tell me three good things you are fighting for that is not already commanded by God? Plagiarism of ideas and values.

Oh? So we've gone from the Bible containing wrong information to "wrong information of importance". Therefore, it actually does contain some wrong information though we may disagree on whether or not that wrong information is important. I think they are important.
Oh? You found it to be true that the Noah's flood story is true? That the Adam story is true? That the talking donkey and dead people walking round a city, Jonah and the fish are all true? Please how did you find all this to be true?
Billions of people have been wrong and misinformed.

When i say wrong information of importance, i refer to what you may call a contradiction like is found in the case of numbers; for instance, there may be a record that states 8 while the real thing is 18. those are the kind of information that i called wrong information having no importance. All that is necessary to our salvation and to the average human are intact, accurate, and more current than tomorrow's discovery.
i found the Bible to be true in its accurate description of the human, the world, evil and good. i found it to be true in the solutions that it offered. The solution for sin, for peace, for prosperity, for healing etc. Billions of people have seen God as a source of hope, joy, turning a disadvantage into an advantage. they have found it so, and so have i.

If it would embarrass me, why don't you show it to them for me?

i do not know your fellows for starters. Then i love you, remember? i do not want you embarrassed but saved.

Taking antibiotics is also killing. So is killing in self-defense, defense of someone you care about and miscarriages. Do you support any of them?

Good, your initial argument was that humans were not being killed. You avoided the word, but used 'termination'. Now, i have shown you that abortion is killing, and we are referring to humans here, living things. You support the annual killing of millions of humans in the name of abortion. But you cry foul if God should try less than a tenth of that in Amalek.

Well then God was lying when he commanded the killing of those children and infants. Unless you think killing children is a sign of love. I guess the account below is another sign of God's love.

Oh, but you said God hates atheists. You made that accusation without any proof, then i showed you that God loves you.

I find in this bible that there was an old gentleman a little short of the article of hair. And as he was going through the town a number of little children cried out to him "Go up, thou bald head!" And this man of God turned and cursed them. A real good-humored old fellow! And two bears came out of the woods and tore in pieces forty-two children! How did the bears get there? Elisha could not control the bears. Nobody but God could control the bears in that way. Now just think of an infinite God making a shining star, having his attention attracted by hearing some children saying to an old gentlemen, "Go up, thou bald head!" and then speaking to his secretary or somebody else, "Bring in a couple of bears now!" What a magnificent God! What would the devil have done under the same circumstances? And yet that is the God they want to put into the constitution in order to make our children gentle and kind and loving.
- Ingersoll's Lecture on "How the Gods Grow"

Yeah, it is another sign of God's love. i find it strange how you do not see anything wrong in the actions of more than 42 youths mocking a old and respected prophet without provocation. Is that how you smile sheepishly when your loved young ones mock you, if they do? What did you expect, a pat on the back? When you mock a man the calibre of Elisha, be prepared for correction the calibre of Elisha.
Gala 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Doesn't look that way to me.

Many things look awkward with you, like preaching for Brahma without accepting Brahma.

I talked about the meanings of the words contained in those books.

They are found in those books.

Sorry you feel touchy with tit for tat. If you have lived underground, you will not be ignorant of what a scrafadoo is. You can go spend like 6 months in a recommended place. You'll never remain the same.

Do you know what a rural area is? Have you ever lived in one?

Do you have several virgins at your disposal? Allah does. Do you have Nirvana? Brahma is offering it to you. Your God has nothing important to offer me that I do not already have.

You are shy to tell us on what authority you stated that The only way to Nirvana is through Brahma so if you have Nirvana or will get, then you're following Brahma (who is even more powerful than your God).
God is offering you Heaven, eternal life, salvation from sin, redemption, cleansing, deliverance, rest etc. You do not have any of these, yet they are things humans look for, not unimportant and esoteric stuff.

Yes I know what it means. Do you? Because if you think the Bible offers irrefutable proof, then you don't know what that word means.

Irrefutable means undeniable, convincing, certain. These are things that i have shown you of God's purpose for creating humans. You have dwelt on assumptions, maybes and 'implyings'.
The Bible states that God created man with the purpose of praising Him, showing forth glory, dominion and victory, multiplying and replenishing. i have shown Bible passages that CERTAINLY say this. You have been unable to show any verse that tell us that God's purpose is A or B, you have only being making assumptions and quoting an assuming Ingersoll.

You do realize that the Pharisees and Sadducees were Jews and the didn't believe him right?
Secondly, I see you've ignored the passage where the Bible commands you to kill members of your own family if they worship another God. How wrong do you have to be before you abandon your misinformation?

you said that what jews taught was different from what the Jews believe, and i told you that the disciples were jews and they believed Him. Thousands of jews believed Him.
Secondly, Jesus did not worship another God, contrary to what you and Ingersoll are saying. Ingersoll hastily concluded or assumed that Jesus worshipped another God. He was wrong, as you can see. Your pride and blind slavery to Ingersoll's thoughts may keep you from accepting this fact though. Think for yourself man.

You support God's killing of 1 in 4 babies every year from miscarriages that aren't yours.

You support the annual killing of 42 million babies that are not yours. If God kills 1 in 4 babies every year, they are His! But He does not. Miscarriage is an involuntary ending of a pregnancy through the discharge of the fetus from the womb at too early a stage in its development for it to survive.
Muse on that word 'involuntary'.

The only way to Nirvana is through Brahma so you do not have Nirvana.

But God gave me nirvana long before i ever heard of Brahma. Do you have nirvana? i already told you that i do, so your saying i don't is a waste of internet space.

You have no issues with God choosing to kill babies. Fertilized eggs and bacteria are living things.

Yes, i have no issues with God. You have NO ISSUES with millions of women choosing to kill babies, do you? Aborted babies are humans.

So Jesus didn't do any of those things? Wasn't he killed? Yet you persist in your ridiculous ignorance? What a shame.
Your God is evil.

There was no man that did all these things you spoke of in Jerusalem. You do not understand that? You and Ingersoll were caught wrong yet again. Always try to verify information for yourself, you need some independence. Jesus did not do all the things Ingersoll claimed He did IN Jerusalem. It is evident today, there are many 'testimonies from the dead', even here on NL. Have you believed them, have you taken the pains or efforts to go ask them all these questions you dream of asking? Ingersoll said "if there was a man in this town that had been raised from the dead, I would go to see him tonight." Don't be the usual armchair internet critic. Take the effort to go to the crusades, see things for your self, interview the testifiers etc. Don't just sit oneplace nodding to every CO2 coming out of Ingersoll and Russell or youtube. Wake up to reality. God is good, He is your Creator.

Mark Miwerds: Jesus abolished the ordinances in His flesh. That' means He did not want the tithe continuing. The Apostles confirmed this when they said the Gentiles were not to be brought under the Law. The Apostles further confirmed this by not teaching tithing in any of their epistles.

What are the ordinances, please break down the grammar. Are judgement, mercy and faith among these ordinances? Is love for one's neighbour among the ordinances. The apostles plainly taught about meats, idols, circumcision, and whatever else they saw was an hindrance to the new covenant life. Did they forget to teach against the tithe? Were there not believers who were zealous of the law? Did Paul not claim to be an observer of the law, and that beleivers should follow him?
Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Do you recall the man Ananais? The man who came to see Paul after Jesus appeared to him? Hear about him oh.
Act 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
(CEV) In that city there was a man named Ananias, who faithfully obeyed the Law of Moses and was well liked by all the Jewish people living there.
You sabi pass Paul and Ananias abi?

ashieduplus: If he quotes Matthew 23 vs 23, ask him:
7. If he is a pharisee?

Jesus told Nicodemus the pharisee, you MUST be born again. Hear Him in the previous chapter, talking to pharisees.
Mat 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Are Christ's words worthless and inconsequential once He is been said to address pharisees? What exactly is your point, and when do we consider Christ's words?

8. Whether Jesus had died already when He made the statement.

There is no scripture that tells us to take Jesus more serious after He has died than before He died. Rather, here is what the Bible says about Him.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever.
(CEV) Jesus Christ never changes! He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

If He commended tithes in Matthew 23, i am certain that He will not condemn it in Acts1 or today.

9. After Jesus' ressurrection, were tithes mentioned again as specific instructions to the body of christ?

The other side of the coin is, were tithes ever condemned by Jesus, or are there specific instructions warning the Body against tithing? Did the Holy Ghost forget?

10. Where tthes were equated with money in the scriptures?

Is there any scriptures that says tithes cannot be money. There are scriptures that show people tithing of all.
Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
God is not complaining, why are you?

11. Why wasn't it required in Acts 15?
Ask him for scriptural answers o. Don't let him deceive you with testimonies. EVen babalawo adherents have theirs...

The Bible does not start or end in Acts 15:29 does it? i was informed by candour that there are more than 600 laws, are you saying that we are required to keep the four or so in Acts 15 and disobey the rest? i sincerely do not get your point on this very question. Please answer and clarify, because for instance, the law says to honour ones parents, and Acts 15 does not require it. The law says to bring a free will offering, but Acts 15 does not seem to require it.

ashieduplus: If your pastor teaches tithes ask hin these questions
1. Are you a jew to pay tithes?

Is there any law from God that states that only jews can pay tithes, or you want to teach for doctrine your opinion?

2. Is he a levite? If yes, can he trace his geaneology to prove it?

The Bible does not state that only levites can receive the tithe. Actually, the tithe belongs to God. The more knowledgeable antitithers know that tithes were given to several non levites in scriptures, and God is not complaining.

3. Is your church the temple in Jerusalem?

Is there any scripture that states that the tithe MUST be given at Jerusalem? i recall Jesus my Lord telling me(via the Samaritan woman) that believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

4. Aren't we permitted to eat our tithes? (Deut. 14)

Thought you were the one who claimed in some page that you were learning a lot on this thread? You should have learnt by now that there were at least three types of tithe referred to in the Pentateuch; there was one eaten by the individual, there was one given to the poor folks, and there was one given to the levites serving in God's house.

5. Shouldn't we give our tithes to widows, orphans and aliens?

See answer to number 4.

6. Are we under the law? Or has Christ delivered us from the curse of the law?

We are not under the law, we do not need to obey the law to be justified, all we need is faith in God. But we still honour God who has written His laws in our hearts. Do you disobey these laws?
Thou shalt not kill.
Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Candour: You are very economical with the truth. When you quite Mal 3:8-12, what do you hope to achieve? Is that a commendation for those who don't tithe? See your reply to Debo, is that not a stylish way to tell him he's a sinner for not keeping a supposed commandment for Christians?

Were u not on the planet when Olaa and His friends were busy promoting hell videos that showed non tithers as getting the worst punishment in hell?

Did you not see Adeboye's open heavens write up on devourer for Christians? Stop pretending you don't condemn non tithers.

Stop defending tithe as a commandment for Christians and these arguments will stop. You and others fan the embers with your hypocricy. Pay if you must but stop calling it a commandment or rule for Christians because that is a big LIE.

Nothing economical about those facts; Paying/giving of tithes can be done by christians and should not be condemned. Jesus or the Holy Spirit never condemned it neither did they forget. i've also shown how some early believers observed the law and were not condemned in as much as it was not used as their medium of salvation. If any part of scripture is quoted by me, it is not to condemn anyone, but to instruct, teach, correct, exhort etc. We all have free will, its your decision to twist my post to 'stylishly' fit what you want it to state, same has been severally done to the Word of God, so i am not offended.
My main point is not that your arguments and contentions should stop, but that there should be a clear focus of what christian ministry is, and for folks to stop majoring on minors, or getting obsessed over trivialities.

Chips popularity seeker, little David killed Goliath, alleluia. E pain them.

lol @50 push ups and 50 sit ups.

doublep.

Mark Miwerds: If tithes should not be misinterpreted, why are you misinterpreting them?

The passage you referenced contradicts your monetary tithe.

Malachi 3:8-12 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts. And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

1. Who was God speaking to in this passage? It was not the New Testament Church of today? The New Testament Church had not even formed yet. Malachi's rebuke was more than four hundred years before Christ was even born.
2. What were the contents of the tithe God was referring to? It was not the tithe of money that is being taught today. (Hint: see the word MEAT for the answer)
3. What were the curses associated with not tithing? It was not cars breaking down, financial ruin, ill health, broken families, etc., that pastors preach will happen when one does not tithe.
4. What were the blessings promised to those who would tithe? It was not perfectly running vehicles, wealth increase, good health, close family bonds, etc., that pastors preach will happen when one tithes.
5. What was the devourer. It was not the car mechanic, doctor, plumber, carpenter, electrician, etc., yet pastors will constantly tell their congregations that is exactly what the devourer is.

The answer to all five questions can be seen in the verses referenced

The Word of God tells us to "Preach the Word," not opinion, nor our own desires. Pastors need to stick with what"thus saith the Lord" instead of messages formulated in the dark recesses of vain imagination.

It is obvious that in the majority of denominations today, when it comes to the teaching of tithes, there really is a famine for the hearing of the Word.

Malachi 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
The Bible is useful to instruct the christian and is profitable for doctrine and instruction. i expect the usual ridiculous scenario questions as this cannot be challenged.

Meat or Bread signifies work, provision or income. It is not confined to agric produce or beef. We still pray for God to give us our daily bread, even children understand that. Theologists would strain at the gnat. Abraham gave tithes of all, so also did the pharisee. God is not complaining.

debosky: The issue of extra-biblical sources appears to have been initiated by Ola not so? It is one thing to present views of those who have made their positions known on tithes (pro or against), but that is completely different from blatantly misrepresenting (or lying) about something e.g. claiming the Didache containing something it doesn't.

The former is acceptable, but the latter is not in my view - for either party. If my 'fellas' a you call them make false claims, please point it out.



Sir, there are two different matters you are conflating here. One is people observing temple rites because they are Jews and somehow projecting that as being applicable to all Christians. The early Church was wary of this and made sure that they didn't require conformance with Moses Law. Let's even move beyond the assumption implicit in your comment that these rites included tithe - does the fact that some Christian Jews did so obligate all Christians to do so? If they are temple-rites as you call them, do we continue to observe them when that temple is no longer in existence?

As for 'not being in Jerusalem', again you are making a big leap here. Temple rites include many things - including guilt offerings for sin. First of all, would you assume (as you did with tithe) that 1st century believers also carried out the aforementioned? If they did, is it something we are supposed to do even while knowing Jesus is our guilt offering?

If the Jewish Christians were (as you assume) tithing to the Levitical Priesthood, and that priesthood has ceased operation now, how can you say the 'time is here'? Did Jesus say we would tithe elsewhere apart from Jerusalem?



Sir, Jews being zealous of the law is one thing, but considering such as applicable to non-Jews is quite another. If being zealous of the law is being interpreted to mean tithing, it can also be extended to mean refusing to wear multi-fabric clothes - is that also applicable to us?

Didn't even read what 'your fellas' posted, not to mention pointing out false claims. i've said i do not have such time for now. i've made detailed explanations in the past and anyone is free to go read my views. There are more pressing and important things begging my attention at present, not that i mean to belittle or insult anyone. My point REMAINS that paying/giving of tithes can be done by christians and should not be condemned. Jesus or the Holy Spirit never condemned it neither did they forget. i've also shown how some early believers observed temple rites. My point is not for you or anyone to go observe temple rites, but that some early christians did and there is no condemnation for it or a fall from grace or whatever else we are being threatened with.

Candour: Suddenly you find use for a skeptic because you must chop tithe?

Is that the same way you join forces with Joagbaje, a man whose Church and practices you have been trained and conditioned to detest with passion simply because of tithe? Name one thing you and him agree on apart from tithe? Name one similarity between DLBC and CEC apart from tithe?

May greed and covetousness not injure you.

Trained and conditioned to detest with passion, what is this? You want to make trouble when trhere is none? What do you intend to achieve by this? sofri sofri oh. You're willing to knock two or more believers heads together for what?

Oh, its my church is better than other churches day.