₦airaland Forum

mazaje: I am just stating what the bible says to ihe. . .The bible remains a book of myth. . .What am i to do with the fictitious bible god character and what you believe he thinks of me. . .he remains a fictitious idea and that's where it begins and ends. . .

plaetton: Unbelievable.
Another one.
God considers you dead if you are not his child?
What kind of baloney is that? Where do you guys get these incoherent ideas from?
Do you just make it up as you go?

If god considers someone dead, and yet they are living, then why should they give a F... about what your god thinks??

Your above statement is so disconnected, it is not even worth analyzing.

Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

Mat 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

mazaje: The bible clearly says they did not know the difference between right and wrong before they ate the apple they only knew it after they had eaten the fruit . . .Here is bible god speaking after they had eaten from the tree according to the story. . .

Gen 3:22
And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Bible god decided to drive them out of the garden after knowing good from evil so that they will not eat from the tree of life and live forever. . .

Candour: Stop forming champion and stop clutching at straws. As if you even know about Num 18 before now .

10% of 10% got to the priest which is 1% if the whole abi that small maths complex?

The tithe you're shouting about is 10% or 1%? and for your info, tithes are not heave offerings. Stop twisting the bible. Except your tithe us now the 1%

plaetton: Everyone is a sinner. We have all sinned all our lives, and surely we will sin tomorrow.

[s]You are sinner. You lie, you envy, you judge, you lust, you support injustice to others, you are a tithe fraud preacher, and you do not pay your taxes to the state, to mention just a few.[/s]

It's up to you to decide how you deal with your sins. If you think you need skydaddy to babysit you, that's your own personal choice.

As for my sins, I do not need any skydaddy or skybrother to save me . In fact I like and enjoy most of my sins. I try as much to abstain from sins that hurt my fellow human beings.
No Jesus required.

mazaje: We can't because the bible clearly says that they did not know the difference between right and wrong before they ate the fruit. . .They knew the difference after they had eaten the fruit. . .Why punish someone when he dos not even know the difference btw right and wrong. . .

Candour: Not the tithe you've been preaching my bro. or i can go ahead and bring 1%? since thats what got to the altar? God called it HEAVE OFFERINGS my bro. Leave it that way. God's tithe is 10% of the whole, NOT 10% of 10%

Candour:

So because of tithe you actually have started seeing Paul as a dictator and commander over his flocks finances? so what would he have done if they didnt obey? call down fire from heaven or curse their finances?

It's a simple matter image. see what Paul said

Now concerning the collection for the saints, as i have given order to the churches in galatia, so do ye. upon the first day of the week......

My bro, the order was about getting it ready on the first day of the week simply so there'll be no gatherigs when he comes. He wanted to avoid rushing or disorderliness when he came.

He had no RIGHT to order them to part with their money image. That is a negation of liberty that came with GRACE.

See 2Cor 1:24
'Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand'

i repeat paul had no RIGHT over their life just like no pastor now has a right over the life or affairs of his members.

thehomer: The Bible clearly states that God was killing people left and right. I'm also literate enough to tell when the Bible is wrong because those who wrote it know nothing about ethics and morality. They and their God thought slavery was fine. You on the other hand are clearly lazy and ignorant. That is why you're unable to accept what stares you in the face.

I'm sorry but are you a goat? If you think you should be treated as a goat such that you can be killed with impunity, please say so.

No you don't know what your God's purposes are. After all, you said he would be right to treat you like a goat and kill you. If a goat doesn't know what your purposes are, what makes you think you know what God's purposes are? God has deliberately deceived people so he may just be deceiving you by fattening you for his galactic slaughterhouse.
I see Ingersoll really bothers you. You should try actually reading some of his works.

You don't believe me because I didn't write some of those things in the Bible. It is for the same reason you reject Brahma. But, you're unable to see your own inconsistencies.

As usual, Ingersoll was right. According to that same Bible, most of us are going to hell. This is why I say your problem is with comprehending and using language.
Since believing is so easy and comes naturally to you, why don't you believe in the Muslim Allah? Or Brahma?

And why does this same God tell me how to raise my children when he had to drown his? - Robert G. Ingersoll (Some Mistakes of Moses)

You feel empty and incomplete without Brahma. No matter what you achieve in life, you'll always come back to confirm if Brahma exists.

No it isn't.

If you're can present quotes from books, I too can present quotes from books.
You cannot bear the thought of God not existing so you hate atheists.

Your gentleness can be said to be superficial since you say it comes from God. You're likely to lose it if your belief in God is shaken or if you're exposed to other conditions.

What? Are you now a chimera? Or are you performing some interesting acts? I thought Jesus was a person and male. How is he in you?

Do you use your Bible as a dictionary? No wonder you're finding some difficulty with language.

Do you believe that people see ghosts? Well what is a spirit? Because as far as I'm concerned you've not made more sense than saying God is a Scrafadoo.

"no true pastor or prophet" that is a classic example of the No true Scotsman fallacy. Jesus himself said he came for the sinners so all you're doing is promoting your pride.

It is all an assumption. If your God is willing to deceive people, what makes you think he hasn't deceived you?

Did it ever occur to you that if God wrote the old testament, and told the Jews to crucify or kill anybody that disagreed with them on religion, and that God afterward took upon Himself flesh and came to Jerusalem, and taught a different religion, and the Jews killed Him—did it ever occur to you that He reaped exactly what he had sown? Did it ever occur to you that He fell a victim to His own tyranny, and was destroyed by His own law! Of course I do not believe that any God ever was the author of the bible, or that any God was ever crucified, or that any God was ever killed or ever will be, but I want to ask you that question.

I say that at that time Matthew, Mark and Luke believed that He was the son of Joseph and Mary. And why? They say He descended from the blood of David, and in order to show that He was of the blood of David they gave the genealogy of Joseph. And if Joseph was not his father, why not give the genealogy of Pontius Pilate or Herod? Could they, by giving the genealogy of Joseph, show that He was of the blood of David if Joseph was in no way related to David; and yet that is the position into which the Christian world is now driven. It says the son of Joseph, and then interpolated the words "as was supposed." Why, then, do they give a supposed genealogy. It will not do. And that is a thing that cannot in any way, by any human testimony, be established; and if it is important for us to know that He was the Son of God, I say then that it devolves upon God to give us evidence. Let Him write it across the face of the heavens, in every language of mankind. If it is necessary for us to believe it, let it grow on every leaf next year. No man should be damned for not believing unless the evidence is overwhelming. And he ought not to be made to depend upon say-so. He should have it directly for himself. A man says God told him so and so, and he tells me, and I haven't anyone's word but that fellow's. He may have been deceived. If God has a message for me He ought to tell it to me, and not somebody that has been dead 4,000 or 5,000 years, and in another language; God may have changed His mind on many things; He has on slavery at least, and polygamy; and yet His church now wants to go out here and destroy polygamy in Utah with a sword. Why don't they send missionaries there with copies of the old testament? By reading the lives of Abraham, and Isaac, and Lot, and a few other fellows that ought to have been in the penitentiary, they can soften their hearts.

But I do have a problem with the killing of 42 children. Do you have issues with the millions lost through miscarriages?

Why don't you try Brahma first before rejecting him?

This is another reason why I say you're having problems with the language. You were the one harping on and on about living things. Bacteria are living things aren't they?

Here is a man that comes into Jerusalem, and the first thing he does he cures the blind. He lets the light of day visit the darkness of blindness. The eyes are opened and the whole world is again pictured upon the brain. Another man is clothed with leprosy. He touches him, and the disease falls from him, and he stands pure, and clean, and whole. Another man is deformed, wrinkled, bent. He touches him and throws upon him again the garment of youth. A man is in his grave, and He says, "Come forth!" and he again walks in life, feeling his heart throb and beat, and his blood going joyously through his veins. They say that happened. I don't know. There is one wonderful thing about the dead people that were raised—we don't hear of them any more. What became of them? Why, if there was a man in this town that had been raised from the dead, I would go to see him tonight. I would say, "Where were you when you got the notice to come back? What kind of country is it? What kind of opening there for a young man? How did you like it?" But nobody ever paid the slightest attention to them there. They didn't even excite interest when they died the second time. Nobody said, "Why, that man isn't afraid. He has been there." Not a word. They pass away quietly. You see I don't believe it. There is something wrong somewhere about that business. And then there is another trouble in my mind. Now, you know I may suffer eternal punishment for all this.

You need to start reading. A reader makes a leader. Read quality and reality not junk from the sources you have been quoting. You have a poor understanding of the English language. Maybe you should try to resolve that before trying to shell out any advice.

Enigma: This post gives me an opportunity to do small amebo about some posts on an old thread!

For a start there was a post noting the distinctions in terms of the persons that Jesus was speaking to in Matthew 23.

More to the amebo point, my old mucker (note not mocker) Joagbaje agreed on that thread that Matthew 23:23 was not directed to Christians. Oga Jo, I do not bring this up maliciously at all oh - just that it is relevant here in light of Image123's post. Funny, as it happens, even Image123 was deep involved in that discussion. Even Zikky! (We don sabi awasefs tay tay!)

Selection of quotes though it is much better to read the whole page in the link. https://www.nairaland.com/497709/best-position-bless-parents-pastor/3#6630062








EDIT The specific post that focused on a discussion of the structure and addressees of Mathew 23 is at this link: https://www.nairaland.com/497709/best-position-bless-parents-pastor/3#6627962

Candour: Levites collect tithes from the people. This is taken to be like increase of farmland and livestock for them. They then offer up a HEAVE OFFERING out of it which they take to the priest. It is 10% of the tithes they collect from Isreal.

Num 18:26-30

Zikky: Hmmmm..... so it's the levites tithe of tithe (1%) that goes to the altar ehn (and not the people's tithe) smiley image123 kindly confirm this was what you meant by the altar received tithe angry Also teach us how the altar received the tithe since you believe this tithe of tithe landed on the altar grin i hope you'll have the courage to educate us here o!

Candour: A liitle history of how the verse you quoted came to be

Acts 11:28-30
'And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Ceaser.29.Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in judea:30.Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul'

Romans 15:25-26
'But now i go unto Jerusalem to minster unto the saints.26.For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.'

1Cor 16:1-3
'Now concerning the collection for the saints, as i have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.2.Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when i come.3.And when i come, whomesoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will i send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem'

see the trail: Famine was predicted by a prophet from Jerusalem. remember the Jerusalem saints sold all they had and maintained a common purse, naturally the purse went dry. Gentile Christians then determined to send supplies to the saints at Jerusalem who had become impoverished from sharing everything and also possibly the fierce persecution. Everyman gave according to his ability. No body stipulated a percentage. proportionate means if you earn big, pls give big.

There was nothing compulsive, remember they all determined and purposed to give and were even pleased to do so. see the bolded portions up there.

summary, no compulsion, no percentages or formulae.

see how the Gentile Christians must have reasoned to do what they did

1John 3:17
'But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?'

plaetton: Well,s since everyone is a sinner, everyone is guilty of one sin or another, calling anyone a sinner is kind of silly.
The only savior from sin is the self, and the only antidote for sin is simply to stop sinning.

But first, you have to define sin from the viewpoint of a non-consumer of religilous #**#

Zikkyy: @image123, am still waiting o! for you to show the world the tithe that went to the altar i really want to learn o! or show me the prior discuss with candour where i can dig up this info.

christemmbassey: why u dey fear, twist na! I know say u no get conscience.

Zikkyy: Stuff get burnt at the altar. i.e. if tithe goes to the altar, it will end up as burnt offering. after God willed the tithe to the Levites, the only place the tithe went to was the store house. tithe to support the priest & levite did not go the altar.



I don't believe tithe was such a difficult word for apostle paul to pronounce, if he wanted you to give tithe to gospel preachers he would have mentioned it. He was able to pronounce the word in Hebrews 7. You guys are just wasting time looking for coded (hidden) messages in the gospel to support the pastoral fraud scheme.



done (above).

Candour: No problem but Tithe is not part of the gospel.

Freewill given is. Every man as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give. I could purpose 2% or 80%. God has given me that liberty.

Zikkyy: You think the altar is a table meant for relaxation and drinking? Must you lie? This ya desperation is becoming something else.

Nehemiah 13:12 (NIV)
12 All Judah brought the tithes of grain, new wine and olive oil into the storerooms.

Candour: That's your own interpretation my bro. The God who instituted tithes and offerings demarcated them. If you claim to know more than him, feel free. Read Num 18:1-end and tell me why you can't see it. Their office, duties, entitlements are all spelt. I believe it can't be that difficult to see. Would have typed them out but on a phone now.

Paul was well versed in the law so when he indicated the difference, he knew what he was saying and doing.

I wonder why you don't see a difference when it comes to temple and altar but you're quick to insist tithing must be separated from the regular offerings people give.

Can't Christians just go ahead and give since there's no difference?

christemmbassey: image123, if u r in nigeria and u say u've never withness a pastor or u urself force, intimidate or cuse ppl with mal 3 to pay tithe, u r a big liar. Its good to see change of gear from d tithe crew, now u guys av accepted dat tithe eventhough wrong should not b forced on ppl, thats a great joy for us. God bless.

Candour: My sister Alwaystrue, read your post. Can't do step by step analysis now but the quote above stood out to me. My sister, ORDINANCES are DECREES and are also laws howbeit bye laws if you want.If they are laws, then they are enforceable. This is the reason I'll always bring you back to Matt 23:1-3 where Christ said to obey all the religious leaders bade you obey. That verse say Christ nailed them to the cross and that includes tithing.

Tithe was not a part of the 10 so why is tithe so special? The argument of Abram holds no water because when Mal 3, and Christ in Matt 23 talk, they EVIDENTLY referred to Mosaic law. It is an UNTRUTH to say otherwise.

Paul made reference to Temple and Altar in Corinthians and I repeat here, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between Temple and altar. Only Priests got to the altar. Only Priests and their families ate of the altar. Levites work in and around the temple but have no business with the altar. Tithes come to the Levites at the temple and only 10% of tithes which are called heave offerings make it to the altar. Paul knew what he was saying when he made that demarcation.

Priests are levites, not all levites are priests. The altar is in the temple not all parts of the temple are altars.

Tithe has no place in Christianity but Christianity is all about giving.God gave so we give

christemmbassey: i agree. But bro, why isd church in nigeria like this? Is it bc we open too much anti-tithe threads on Nl? Why is every church burying humans b4 puting up a building, why are christians d worst/most currupt leaders in govt. Why must ppl continue to steal money n give to church n d pastors shamelessly hold on to d money n refuse to return? It greed, and tithe is d main oga. As we open more n more threads on this tithe fraud, we hope more will b set free including d tithe collectors. Finally, ave u notice the shifting of ground by d pro-tithe group in Nl? Today they accept at least in principle, that tithe should nt b forced on ppl(only God knows wether this is what they say in their churches) but dat was nt what they said in d begining. Why? Bc, these anti tithe thread have exposed d truth and force them to slow down, so bro, go ahead and open threads on other christian values, n i'll join u, but for tithe fraud n it damaging effects, NO RETREAT, NO SURRENDER! God bless u, sir.

Candour: Pls don't generalise. How many opinions have you sampled? Is paying tithe of prayers, praise and time also your practice as said by one of my tithe paying brothers?

I do not see it as sin but as burdensome legalism and self righteousness

Candour: Pls don't generalise. How many opinions have you sampled? Is paying tithe of prayers, praise and time also your practice as said by one of my tithe paying brothers?

I do not see it as sin but as burdensome legalism and self righteousness

thehomer: I see. The problem is that you're finding language difficult. I'm sorry but I cannot help you with that. Seeing how you confuse the meaning of a word with the word itself, I don't think you're qualified or in a position to help me. Sorry to burs your bubble.

christemmbassey: WHY YOU SHOULD NOT PAY TITHE. 1. You will b doing a wrong thing in a wrong way, ie u'd commiting sin. 2. You are not under the law but under grace. 3. From Genesis to Revelation there is no single verse where God commanded christians to pay tithe. 4. Christ, Peter, John, philip, Paul and all the apostles/early christians did nt pay or collect tithes, there's no record in all the letters where Paul reminded or asked d various churches to pay tithe. 5. When u pay tithe, it means u want to b justified by d law of Moses by so doing, u've rejected the death of Jesus, the bicle says, "you have fallen from grace.. Gal 5:1-4' to you Christ has not died, and u are still in your SINS. 6. When u pay tithe so dat God will pour u out a blessing from m window from heaven, it means, what Christ did at d cross was nt aderuate, so our tithe (money) is more VALUEABLE THAN THE BLOOD OF JESUS, U DON'T APPRECIATE ALL THE THINGS DAT GOD HAS FREELY GIVEN TO US BY JESUS, you are like Esau the profane man who God hated. So as a christian give to pastor/church/charity and all but pls never regard it as TITHE. Peace......concluded.