₦airaland Forum

if you are referring to the song with the lyrics below, i no know oh.




10,000 songs to sing
If i had 10,000 songs to sing
I will sing 10,000 songs to him
I will sing Praises forever
To Jesus My Redeemer
Thank you Jesus
Halle Hallelujah
Thank you Jesus
Halle Hallelujah
Thank you Jesus
Halle Hallelujah

jidowu84: So it's possible to be born again(Means u have holy spirit abi?) and still
experience devilish manipulations. ?

yes, but it's absurd for a christian to be overcome by such. Hven being programmed for victory, overcoming, and being more than conquerors by Jesus Christ.

do you mean "Oh for a thousand tongues to sing" ? If yes, it's Charles Wesley, junior brother of John Wesley, and son to Sussanah Wesley.

Nigerians are not godly, they are religious.

thehomer: @ Image123

On what moral basis do you support a person who specifically commands that children should be killed? And in some cases, that young female children were property to be shared by people who killed their parents? You're welcome to argue from whatever position you want. All I ask is that you be consistent.

i don't support a fellow person commnding anyone to be killed or shared as property. Obviously, you are aware that your moral base(which is baseless) is your own fickle self's mind and reason.
if you by some chance are referring to God, all things living and non living belong to Him and He has the base and right of possesson to do as He pleases.

Ubenedictus: @image, are you now ready to discuss justification?

boss i am always ready oh. But let's have it on nother thread for clarity and focus. thanks

thehomer

Image123: i guess you have no idea what a moral base is, as you evidently lack one. You are fine with abortion, on what moral base? You are not fine with God, on what moral base? It would be safer for you to argue from a logical point of view (if you do not introduce your trademark fallacies), than a moral one. You can't stand as a moral base.
Now, tell me, a good that rewards a person with what we call good things for generations after. Is it absurd that He punishes another with what we call bad things for generations after. That's the way God works, simply shape in or shape out. For Abraham's actions, God reward him even after his death, a promise he himself did not actually get while 'alive'. God blesses righteous people and their seed/children/coming generation/descendants. The same God punishes people and their seed/children IF they do not change.
A wise person sees something he cannot control, like God, the sun, weather and seasons, and works round it for his benefit. A foolish person sees something he cannot control and perishes. We can always change category.

my very good friend highyo strikes again.

Fanny Crosby

thehomer: You and God lack a moral base to argue or discuss any issue at all. But then an abortion is different from killing a 1 year old child. Keep in mind the fact that God is fine with killing children in and out of the uterus. I am not so I'm more moral than your God when it comes to that.

i guess you have no idea what a moral base is, as you evidently lack one. You are fine with abortion, on what moral base? You are not fine with God, on what moral base? It would be safer for you to argue from a logical point of view (if you do not introduce your trademark fallacies), than a moral one. You can't stand as a moral base.
Now, tell me, a good that rewards a person with what we call good things for generations after. Is it absurd that He punishes another with what we call bad things for generations after. That's the way God works, simply shape in or shape out. For Abraham's actions, God reward him even after his death, a promise he himself did not actually get while 'alive'. God blesses righteous people and their seed/children/coming generation/descendants. The same God punishes people and their seed/children IF they do not change.
A wise person sees something he cannot control, like God, the sun, weather and seasons, and works round it for his benefit. A foolish person sees something he cannot control and perishes. We can always change category.

i'd rather meet a bear.

thehomer, when will you realise that you lack a moral base to argue or discuss these kind of issue? Is killing of babies by abortion not justified by you?

hope this is not another circular journey, as is common on this section. It'snot basic or fundamental. Nevertheless, what is right is right, and what is wrong is wrong.

frosbel: What is this ?

\
It is the biblical difference between the rapture and the second comin. Here it is again.
You'll know the difference by knowing the definition of the word. The rapture is the catching up of saints to meet Jesus in the air. The Second coming is Jesus coming to earth with His saints. i gave two scriptures for each definition, you forgot(let's assume) to add the other that shows the difference. Here they are again.
one RAPTURE verse- 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
one SECOND COMING verse- Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints

There is a difference between Jesus touching down on earth WITH His saints to reign for a long while, AND saints being caught up to meet Jesus in the air in a moment.

Let's go back to v13.


13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.

The discussion centered around those believers who had gone to 'sleep' or died physically, and Paul was trying to encourage the believers not to despair. These dead believers have hope, lets continue.

i was never in doubt or disagreement with this.

14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

Now correlating the hope of the dead believers to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. They will also be raised from death to life at the second coming of Jesus.

The bolded phrase "at the second coming of Jesus" jumps out of nowhere to sort of force your opinion on that verse.

15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

So the dead in Christ will be resurrected first from the dead and their bodies transformed from corruptible into incorruptible. Then those believers who are alive will be translated and caught up to meet Jesus in the air.

This is the event that we call THE RAPTURE i.e being 'translated' and caught up to meet Jesus in the air.

16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

A noisy event, a loud uproar, the last trump, not the second to the last.

It is loud in the sense that it raises the dead, the dead hears it, and in its joyous and rapturous connotation. Like a shout of victory, not in the sense that every human being will hear the sound. Its not an uproar, if you know what an uproar is. i have never argued about the position of the trump, whether it is first, second, last, or second to the last. You can pass across your point without being rude. The word 'last' is relative with time and context. Which is the first trump or second or third trump? The Bible talks of the "last day" a couple of times. Have you bothered to ask if there will be no more day or no other day after this "last day", or you have rightly intepreted it in its right time and context? Do the same for your last trump queries. the context of "last" may not always or clearly be stated as in this verse below. But you can rightly divide(that is becoming quite meaningless on this board these days BTW).
Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Here is the "last day" i alluded to. Is there no other day after this last day, r is it second to last or whatever?
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

So we know that Jesus is coming back with the saints who are dead and alive, they will meet him in the air and descend to earth.

This is correct. The teaching of the rapture is that there is a MYSTERY gap inbetween that meeting Him in the air, and the descending to earth part. When Jesus comes, we the saints first GO with Him, for a while, before coming back to earth to reign. The 'marriage supper of the Lamb is going to be in this period too.

They are not going to heaven, this is pure fiction and myth.

We are, whether you like it or not.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

You may want to ask God to open our eyes until you see the phrase in bold.

- Jesus will come back
- His saints will meet him in the air
- They will come back together

- Jesus will come back
- His saints will meet him in the air
- He will take them to His Father's house where He went to prepare for them.
- They will come back together
FIXED.

Jesus is coming back to reign on this earth, he is not coming back to the skies in some secretive mission , if GOD wanted to he could have easily taken the believers to heaven without Jesus having to come secretly. Nay, FALSE all the way.

Nobody said that Jesus is not coming back to reign on earth. i'm yet to meet a real christian who does not believe that Jesus is coming again. There is no need to assume what God wanted, especially when it is already shown in scriptures.

My views are my views, you are not obliged to agree, same here, I reject your false teachings. you really need to start studying scriptures.

The bold insertion is why i said and repeat this below, same applies to anyone including me, seeing you feel wounded and alone. You may fix 'we' and 'our' for the camaraderie effect.
You delve into folly everytime you conclude that anyone who is not gloating or drooling over your views is not studying scriptures.

You do err not knowing the scriptures, the righteous will come back with Jesus to judge and destroy the wicked, it is the wicked sinners who will be removed from the land, who will be taken and destroyed. Then the saints will take possession of the land forever and ever.



2 Peter 2:12
12 But these as natural brute beasts, led with sensuality and made to be taken, and destroyed, speak evil of those things which they know not, and shall perish through their own corruption.

i didn't even say one word of mine in that quote. i quoted Jesus Luke 17:34-36.
i wonder why you took the word "taken" to kill that passage. Anyone can be taken. Jesus was taken to Heaven(the ascension). Thessalonians tells of that we would be taken out of the way. It is unto Jesus that we will be taken, unto him will the gathering of His people be, and we will be with Him forever more, never to be parted again, that is.
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Christians will inherit the earth, they will not be removed from it.

---

The Righteous will not be snatched away or removed from the earth, they will inherit the earth.

Thankfully, these statements of your are not in the texts that you quoted, neither can they be derived directly.
Matthew 5:5
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.

Psalm 37:11
But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy peace and prosperity.

Isaiah 60:21 CEB
Your people will all be righteous; they will possess the land forever. They are the shoot that I planted, the work of my hands, to glorify myself.
The righteous would inherit the earth, not this earth. This earth will pass away. Jesus Himself said that several times. His words outweigh any other even if they were to contradict, he is a greater than any other. Fortunately, the words do not contradict. the righteous WILL indeed inherit the earth, the NEW earth. Of course, they will reign for a loooooooooooonng time on this eartj, longer than any sinner has ever or can ever reign. But this earth will be destroyed and will perish.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Amen, it shall be done.

The Wicked will be removed, taken away and destroyed.

No doubt. But that will be primarily after the second coming and then after the great judgement. Before the second coming.
Pro 11:8 The righteous is delivered out of trouble, and the wicked cometh in his stead.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
The righteous will be taken out of the way. the one shall be taken, the one shall be taken, the one shall be taken.Luke 17v34,35,36.

Tgirl4real: @ Frosbel,

I read your response to Image on page 6. I don't wanna quote cos it's long.

Q: which earth are we inheriting? is it this same one?

The scripture teaches that it is the new earth, not this one. This one will pass away after what you called the millenial reign.

Ubenedictus: READING THE THREAD HAS BEEN REFRESHING.
@IMAGE, DON'T BE SUPRISED IF YOUR VIEW ON JUSTIFICATION IS REJECTED. I'M PERSONALLY SHOCKED YOU HOLD SUCH A VIEW, YOUR VIEW ON JUSTIFICATION is neither lutherian or calvinist, it is hardly protestant. remember this particular doctrine is the reason for the protestant "reformation", i advice you step back a little and do a little research and be convinced you really want to hold this view.

Thanks and God bless you too. i just need the scriptures' view, i'm not exactly partisan. i don't think that i've stated any justification view that is not already found in the book. i just zoomed in on it as it were.

JesusisLord85: Not sure if you understand, or even why you highlighting tribulation.

So, "after the tribulation of those days", sun shall be darkened. That mention in matthew is echoed in revelation, they are speaking about the end (though not all of matthew is about the end). So that is 6th seal.

God's own wrath comes after the tribulation you helpfully highlighted

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Messiah will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

What do you not understand about LAST? As in, final. None thereafter. Jokers!
They are talking about what will happen after the tribulation of those days.

"I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Yeshua, and for the word of God, and such as didn't worship the beast nor his image, and didn't receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived, and reigned with Messiah one thousand years. The rest of the dead didn't live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection." (Revelation 20:4-6)

So those who are part of the first resurrection did not worship the beast or take his mark. It also implies that they had the opportunity to worship the beast and take his mark, but they refused it. They were here during the tribulation, and they faced the persecution, and at the resurrection they are being rewarded for their faithful endurance.

That is all.

kindly come down to my wavelength, i'm trying to discuss with you?

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

The writer of the epistle is quite particular about the knowledge of the believer. It is not good to be ignorant. Even God's people are not spared from perishing due to ignorance. So we should seek to grow in the knowledge of God primarily. We ought to know that it is up to us, who we will yield to. Evil spirits love to possess the will and make you do things against your will, control, and even knowledge. But the Spirit of the child of God is subject to the child of God. So, its up to the individual, who he will allow/permit/yield to, to be his tutor, teacher, or master. Some people are servants of sin(under the law) in a new testament era. But we are expected to go to our new class and school, to yield and present ourselves UNDER grace(obedience to righteousness). Believers can choose to OBEY righteousness, or disobey righteousness. God's righteousness is OBEYED, not only imputed.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

You were the servants of sin. We all were, all have sinned. But NOW, you can choose to be the servant of righteousness. Jesus came that He might save us from our sin (Matthew1v21). That is His primary purpose. Anyone that claims to have Jesus and is not yet saved from sin is joking. Apostle John is very frank about it, he says such a fellow has NEVER known Jesus. Little wonder, Jesus will tell some folks "I never knew you".
1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Thank God, God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin. But things are different now. Now, ye have obeyed from the heart. Its good to obey, like a true soldier, whether we agree or understand or no. It's better and best to obey from the heart. it is bad and worst when we are disobedient. the Roman church obeyed from the heart. They obeyed the doctrine and teaching of the apostles. They were not independent christians, they were teachable.
Act 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

There it is again, FREEDOM from sin. That is the primary and number one goal of the gospel and of Jesus.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
There are many things that folks propose freedom from today, but none would matter as to be free from sin. BEING made free from sin. Our freedom makes us SERVANTS again. The fact of life is that everyone is a servant to something. Either a servant to God or to money, or to sin, or whatever. People do not like to accept that they are servants anyway. They love to show their freedom. Some emphasize freedom in vain inconsequential things. Like a 'believer', shouting to the rooftops about freedom to have money, or freedom to worship anywhere, or to pray anytime and where, or freedom to use gadgets, or freedom to eat anything, smoke everything, and drink anything. Its becoming popular to hear from freedom from having a pastor, or from doing a job, or from giving money. Nothing compares to freedom from sin. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh. this is generally the way and form in which the Bible is written. the Bible is god's Word to mankind. It is god speaking to us, communicating with us. the goal of speaking is to be understood, to communicate. If for instance, a professor or a medical doctor was to address school children, he would communicate efficiently when he 'comes' to the level of his audience. His words might not show off all his vast knowledge like it may if he were speaking with his colleagues or superiors. The same way, God's Word communicates with us as much as possible, on our level. If God's Word were to talk about DNA or protons and electrons, or about the intricacies of the galaxies, not many if any will profit from it. But god's Word and Spirit is given to profit.
As sinners, we yielded our bodies and minds to iniquity and uncleaness. Even so now, yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. Give your all to God. Your brain, time, intellect, body etc should be given toGod as priority. It's what a true christian should do, not just a missionary, pastor or church worker.

Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

When YE WERE the servants of sin. A child of God is NO MORE a servant of sin. He is now free from sin. Before, he was free from righteousness, even though righteousness was around. Today too, sin is around, but we are free from it. temptation comes but we overcome it. Sin does not pay. it brings doom and shame in the end. The end and destination of sin is death, separation from God and His Spirit's fellowship. Now being made free from sin, and become servants to God. We need to align with the Now, many folks are living in the past. Our fruit, our goal and our destination should be holiness and everlasting life.

JesusisLord85: I will copy paste what I said before:

Matthew 24:29 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"

Ok, so the sun and moon will be darkened. According to Revelation, this does not happen until after the 6th seal is opened:

Revelation 6:12 “12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood”

So what else happened AFTER the tribulation, AFTER this moon darkening takes place?

13-16 "and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains
16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

God's wrath and tribulation are indeed separate events, with tribulation some period beforehand.

Like i have stated earlier, the darkening of the sun is not a once in a lifetime event. God can darken the sun as many times as He chooses so its not a fixed once. The sun was darkened when Jesus was on the cross, and also in this other passage in Revelation. The sun is darkened in many stormy situations if you have ever experienced one.
Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Jesus Christ said that there would be sign[b]S[/b] in the sun. Signs, not just one sign, but signs. That's why i tried to get you to seeing that God can darken the sun a million times.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Here are some other sun darkenings in revelations apart from the one you quoted.
-Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
-Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
-Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

Sun darkening can easily be tied to any of the above different events. Jesus said the time of great tribulation will be the worst period ever on earth. Are we to conclude that it is worse than the time of God's wrath, or that it is the same period?
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

JesusisLord85: lol if you say so. sounds like you've been eating from the tree of legends and myths

Can God darken the sun a million times?

you turn this logos to rhema

Better to meet a bear robbed of her cubs than a fool bent on folly.

shdemidemi: No..No..No I don't think I have ever agreed with you on most things you try to infer and add to what is in the book.

I asked you a simple question that you have refused to answer, Its strange that the same you would say we have talked so much on this issue.

I can as well ask you again.....I want to ask you a simple question, please answer sincerely.

When the spirit of death was to come upon Egypt, God told the children of Israel to kill a lamb and put the blood on their doorpost and lintels. The bible makes us understand that the spirit of death will passover at the sight of the blood of the lamb.

I believe we both agree with the above statement. if pharaoh and his family were under the blood, that is in one of the houses that is covered by the blood , would the spirit of death ignore the blood of the lamb ?

Isn't Christ our Passover lamb?

Please address my questions cos I have more observations we can discuss about.

i'm really of strong opinion that your questions are a diversion. BTW, i hope that the numerous ones you asked before this would not be rehashed later or elsewhere. As to your question, i want to be clear, are you asking me to infer or add to the passover passage/account?

shdemidemi: Hmmm... That particular question has a lot to do with your perspective on this book of Romans. It is obvious you are a defender of the law of Moses, you have shown that in most of your interpretations. If you don't understand or if you look at the book from the view of the law, you would be getting the entire thing wrong which is what is happening right now.

a defender of the law of Moses? :hehehehe, that surprises me.

And Jehovah God can darken the sun a million times.

network is so poor, would have to do something more productive.

we are to base the whole thread on some sun darkening event? Are
you aware that there more than one sun darkenings in Revelations,
and that Matthew 24 is not chronologically written?

shdemidemi: No..No..No I don't think I have ever agreed with you on most things you try to infer and add to what is in the book.

I asked you a simple question that you have refused to answer, Its strange that the same you would say we have talked so much on this issue.

I can as well ask you again.....I want to ask you a simple question, please answer sincerely.

When the spirit of death was to come upon Egypt, God told the children of Israel to kill a lamb and put the blood on their doorpost and lintels. The bible makes us understand that the spirit of death will passover at the sight of the blood of the lamb.

I believe we both agree with the above statement. if pharaoh and his family were under the blood, that is in one of the houses that is covered by the blood , would the spirit of death ignore the blood of the lamb ?

Isn't Christ our Passover lamb?

Please address my questions cos I have more observations we can discuss about.

i categorically and specifically told you that your questions had little or no bearings on the thread but were more of a diversion. i have taken a lot of time and space to answer many of your questions on this same thread. If you have issues concerning Romans, kindly present them here. If you have other issues, kindly open another thread and refer me to it, thanks.

debosky: God bless you for sharing that you have learned Image.

I do however have some reservations regarding the text below:



They 'took heed' to those Scriptures, only in line with Paul (and others) teaching. Without this guidance, anyone taking the Old Testament as the 'sure Word' as it were would effectively be adopting Judaism. If they simply took it as a 'compulsory' tenet, then they would have to offer sacrifices in Jerusalem, be circumcised and obey all the laws of Moses. But we know the early Christians did not do that - those that did were corrected.

It's worth making this clarification as Paul went to great lengths to 'renounce' his previous Judaism, in order to ensure his readers never took the OT as compulsory tenets and creeds. The test Paul held people to was not conforming to the 'scripture' (or OT in this particular instance) but conformance with the gospel.

Paul especially notes this in Galatians 2: 14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

I agree the disciples often used the OT to resolve arguments, but not strictly in the way you imply. They took inspiration from the OT where applicable, but ultimately relied on the Holy Spirit to show them how they should live in practice - as you said, the bar was raised.

oga long time. Clarification accepted, you put it better than i did. Thanks.

JesusisLord85: Well, you under stand 1,2,3,4,5,6,,7,8,9,10.
So you must understand 1st trumpet, 2nd,3rd, to 7th. So you must also understand you do err.

i understand numerals. i do not understand 1st trumpet, 2nd, 3rd to 7th. kindly explain, thanks.

i said the english alphabets are a-z, someone says "NO, liar and false teacher, the english alphabets are KLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ".
It is well.

shdemidemi: In other words Jesus died so I can have the grace to observe the law of Moses and if I can't I am doomed right?

You keep putting the cart before the horsr as it were. Weve talked so much on justification that i do not expect these kind of question from you. Keeping God's commandments does not justify you or make you righteous. It is faith that justifies us, and that living faith produces the work of obeying God.

Bidam: Thanks for making the "Not under the law but under grace aspect clearer to me". My understanding is that by the help of the Holy Spirit we as Christians are empowered by grace to keep the law.

You're welcome my good friend. Thank God for grace. Indeed we can do all things through Christ our strength.

We apologize for the break in transmission

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Sin shall not have dominion over you. Information/Knowledge is powerful. An information can make one healthy and strong. Another information can weaken you and ruin your day and mood. Imagine hearing that a loved one had an accident, or that you lost a job, or got promoted. These kind of statement change your vigour balance instantly, regardless of whether you have eaten or exercised already. New Information can influence what you do next concerning your career and even your life. It is such huge information that Paul gives in theis verse. "Sin shall not have dominion over you". Note that it does not say that "Sin cannot have dominion over you". Some people teach that sin cannot have dominion over a believer. But the scripture teaches us that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey. For sin shall not have dominion over you, OR Because sin shall not have dominion over you. He is giving reasons for what he stated in earlier verse(s). He had said " Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin". It's up to you, who you yield to, even as a believer. God does not force your will. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin, because sin shall not have dominion over you. This is news because sin had always had dominion over man. The previous chapter talked about how sin reigned in conjunction with death. Why then, why now should sin not have dominion over you? Because you are not under the law again.
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
When you were under the law, sin reigned, had dominion. You had to sin, you were literally committing sin like you drink water.But now, things have changed. In the new covenant/agreement/testament, you are not under the law but under grace. Very important to note the UNDER grace. many folks run off with the first part of being 'not under the law'. They do not understand or comply with the second part that states that you are 'under grace'. What the statement simply means is that you now have a different handler/teacher/tutor. You are now under the care of GRACE. Before, you were under the law. Unfortunately, we have christians today who are under none. They do not yield themselves servants to any. But it is by grace that we are saved. you need to be under grace, submit to grace as your new handler. Grace comes with Truth. Grace and truth came through Jesus.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
True grace, full grace, real grace, always comes with truth. A grace that does away with Truth is not the real deal. The Word of God is Truth BTW. The new testament christian is not under the law but under grace.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Quite similar to verses 1&2 which we already looked at.The point here still is that we all have the OPTION to sin or not to sin. The option to be under the law or under grace, or even under nothing(other gods for instance). The Scripture teaches us that the law was our school master/tutor when we were children. 'We' here refers to man in the generic. The law was our tutor as children, but in this age, we are no more children but grown up(you may want to breeze through Galatians 4). It's like the progress in school, from primary school to secondary, or tertiary. The law was like our primary school teacher. Many of us FEARED the primary school teacher. Parents would often threaten children with their teacher. Primary school teaching moulded us as it were. And it was quite pesky too and very detailed. That's the way the law is. Come to school with brown sandals, no white, no black. Your socks must be worn and should be white, do your classwork, put your head on the table and sleep. Don't put eraser in your ears. Don't play with sand etc. there were so many laws, even when you are doing right, you're not that sure you won't receive some stern 'warning' when the tutor shows up. That is what been under the law is like. But when you come under grace, it's a higher level. Even the name of your school has 'High' inside. you've graduated, "passed out". You now have a new teacher/tutor, grace. This tutor leads you and mentors you as it were.
Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Do we now begin to skip classes, or play with sand, or put pencil in your nose? God forbid. Nobody will exactly tell you these in your new class, but it don't mean you do them. You may not see grace so detailed in what you wear, or what age you marry, or whether you smoke cocaine, but we do not go into sin. Sin is the transgression of the law according to 1Jn3v4
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
The point of this verse is What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law. In plainer words, What then? shall we transgress the law, because we are not under the law, but under grace? The answer was given incase you do not know it.

thanks

shdemidemi: I am with you on this bro^^^

Thanks for this contribution.