₦airaland Forum

Warri( I think it's the most popular)
Ondo town
Onitsha.
Okene( though Kabba should also be there by extension)
Zaria

ruffplay: Greatest lie in history is education

Not really.
History is not just about money.
Most of the inventors went to School.
History at least taught us that so it can't be the greatest lie in history.
Plus the Sons & Daughters of the so called Billionaires you mention are ALL going to school....to a certain extent at least...so don't be deceived.
Try being an illiterate.
It's all about chances.

torch01: OP, you've tried. I appreciate the time you spent on this educative page but I guess you went 'gaaga' in few points of yours and that's because its simply my field:
thermodynamics tells us there are three basic states of matter and other states is as result of Newton, Bose, Einstein, fem., theories

meanwhile, science has fooled everyone of us that people have been to the moon before, on the contrary no one has been there before
.

People have actually been to the moon.
The argument has always been if the UNITED States was there at the first time they said they were there.
That's for the proponents of Conspiracy Theories though. Man has been to the moon and severally.

arsetalks: I know MSF in Germany and UK for sure are sending people down to Africa because 3 of my relatives have been sent to Liberia. This is fact. Ask anyone in these nations if you think it is a lie and on Nano silver, we are on the same page on this but with a little differing view.

We all know if EVD patients are not treated, they stand a very good chance of death and if Nano Silver doesn't work, they simply go back to status quo - death.

What I expect America to have done is to call forward the woman who is making the claims and have her ascertain the claims instead of outright rejecting it without facts for or against it.

And as for Zmapp. I guess the 1 ( one, un) Spaniard pastor who was infected and treated with the medication is more than the 12 people infected in Nigeria as well?

MSF posts Doctors to where they are needed most.
I've worked in Bauchi 2010 when there was a Cholera outbreak there then....worked in Uganda for them before....they're everywhere and you're right. They move people from here to there at anytime.
WE ALL KNOW that if EVD patients aren't treated.....they stand a good chance of living. Mortality in those countries where they have it still stands at 40%.
That's the thing with viral infections.....it takes time to develop a drug for it and it's not usually worth the penny spent cos they're usually self limiting which means they go on their own without any drug,if they don't kill the infected person that is.
Now, Nano Silver has been sold for years immemorial online as everything from food supplement to skin cleanser to its being use in washing machine to cleanse clothes....YES, I read all of that after the shout about it so it's not like a Novel drug.
I'm a Doctor and common sense makes me wonder who they cured with it initially and where they arrived at the fact that it kills Ebola selectively and not HIV or our common influenza virus.
The onus lies on the company selling to demonstrate that it works by showing scientific evidence of tests done and not the Govt to do that.
Where was it since Liberia has been struggling with it?
Where was it since Guinea have been with it?
Why is Nigeria with less than 20 infected people( might be more but that's the official number the FG is giving us) now being sold a food supplement as EVD treatment.
How many viral disease has treatments worldwide? VERY FEW.
Why is it not used for HIV? They're both viral nau or was it developed specifically for EVD and released as food supplements pending the time Ebola will come.
Those questions are more pertinent that using our citizens as the test subjects.

I'm wondering why you even believe the Govt to start with. This is what they said then.

arsetalks: What you have stated are facts THANK YOU but it is also facts that America has not shown enough willingness to help combat this challenge known as EBOLA. First they refused to give us their zmapp medication but could sent it to Spain. Then when there was a big outcry, they sent it to Liberia and now it is no longer available.

Who in the first place approved zmapp? No one. It was administered without approval just as nano silver would have if our corrupt bastardos did not accede to America's demands.

Question is, why is America against this potential curse even without any proof to show it ineffectiveness after all there was no proof that zmapp will work before it was tried!!! Thing is, if the Ebola patients are not treated, they have just less than 20% chance of survival and if Nano Silver doesn't work they will only be back to status quo. Nothing to lose here.

Why has Germany, the UK, Russia and Canada send 5% of their work force to Africa to help remedy the situation but America the supposed leader of the world refuse to follow suit?

They may be innocent but they ( America) don't help matters with their actions and inaction so far.

Look at this man throwing figures around....5% of their workforce.
MSF means Medicine Sans Frontiers or Doctors without Borders in plain English. Have several friends there who have been posted to Ethiopia and all.....it's an international organization that PAYS well(compared to Nigeria standard at least).
No one has asked who the so called Nano tested their drugs on.....why it hasn't been sold to Liberia and Guinea and the other countries that are worst hit.
Why the sudden shout of Nano silver? Is the average Nigeria so unintelligent or so myopic in their views to know that drugs aren't just released without an appropriate and earlier test?
Which EVD patient did THEY test it on before now that they now expect us to use our own family members and friends as Guinea pigs?
Why aren't they using it for HIV that is even more common?
How many such groundbreaking drugs have they developed and why dint the get approval from the necessary authorities as all LEGIT PHARM companies do.
It's like forever products claiming they can use their food supplements to cure HIV?
Even drugs used for Cancer still kills the human cells(that's the cause of the hairloss and all) but this wonder drugs is now being thrown at us to test the efficacy.
Not at Liberia.
Not at Guinea
Not at the Medical Personel on ground seeing the patient
But AT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to purchase in large quantity for our Guinea Pigs

The good thing about all of this is that.....when the game is over, THE DOCTOR will still smile last.
The sack is a joke of course.
There's no hospital that is running, no Federal Hospital at least.
Let the simpleton keep beating the war drums and setting precedence.....it all goes around.
It's unlikely you'll find an unemployed Doctor anywhere in the country...he might be dissatisfied with his job but definitely not jobless.
Jonathan can be very stubborn and we all know that... the subsidy case, UNILAG to MAULAG is a case study.
The ASUU strike is still fresh. With all the posturing and all...he'll still bend backwards.
I'm sure the chorus then will be that the Doctors begged but the important thing is to look closely at the 24 point request and you'll be surprised that most of those requests will be granted. This sack is a diversion just to fool the uninformed.
THE END IS MORE IMPORTANT

nwandouche: I ll leave you to go on with that project.Take the pains to go through and check both the pay and work incentives of doctors in Africa,SA included...
You are of course entitled to your opinions but truth remains that in addition to the corruption in Naija where monkey dey work baboon dy chop more money is needed in d health sector which I tink gets about 2 percent now...
Lastly so I don't go into another long writeup;medicine isn't servitude.Doctors are real people with real responsiblities,dy face real risks and work real unbelievably long hours and as much as they are humanitarians they dnt run a charity organisation.They deserve good remuneration and good working conditions

Leave him to his delusions....is a Doctor a Priest to you....and to think the Pastors even ride jets these days.
He took an oath to care for the patient but not at the expense of his own life.
Half of these so called 'knowledgeable' commentators took the easier path studying less difficult courses and 15 years down the line....have now labeled every doctor a quack and called him proud and start throwing tantrums when they fight for their rights.

soulglo: Name the countries in Africa that earn more. Please do not mention South Africa.


Here's my main issue. You cannot keep throwing money into a system that's clearly broken. The government should not write out checks for Doctor's payroll. Hospitals should learn to be profitable. Funding can come from other sources. There are many rural areas in Nigeria where doctors have never set foot and yet we have more Doctors than most African countries. All the money being put into the sector are currently going into a few choice pockets. The system needs to be fixed and that will not come from throwing money at doctors. NMA needs and overhaul. Maybe when that's done and the attitude changes it will trickle down to the foot soldiers. I'd rather mist of the money go towards a healthcare scheme. The patients gave a card and can pick and choose doctors. The doctors get paid through the plan for their services and patients get the option to pick who should provide their care. Money will not make our doctors better doctors. The mindset of servitude is what will.

Lovely write up.....tell me the sector that is profitable in Nigeria. Universities? NNPC?(you don't even want to know how much is lost through that channel alone). Hospitals?
Customs?..they rake in half of what they should bring in and embezzle the rest.
NMA needs no overhaul.....the health system does.
Sacking the Resident Doctors speaks volume about how serious the Govt is. It's a futile action that will DEFINITELY be reversed but a guaranteed time waster.
The common man while they're to be pitied does not even know his left foot from the right and blames the person closest to them..the Doctors...

shymexx: My point is that: nano silver isn't a new drug. It's an effective antibacterial drug and no different from whatever antibiotics they might be giving them now.

And since it has no side effects, why no try it on one or two of the dying ones?

It isn't for all Nigerians, just those infected with the incurable virus that can't get zmapp. Or you want them to wait till they die for a zmapp that's non-existent at the moment?

Nano silver isn't your everyday antibiotics.
Used topically(on the skin) for burn patients as silver nitrate ..it hasn't been tested on any human.
It would be very wrong and unethical to just pick a drug from nowhere because someone from somewhere said it and start testing it on fellow human beings without any regard to its safety.
The mortality for Ebola is 90% and this particular strain seems to be at 40%....why write them all off and use them as guinea pigs.
What's wrong with giving quality supportive care and proven antibiotics instead of a drug whose name came from nowhere....no history to say it was developed for Ebola at anytime or tested for Ebola at anytime.
The FG and the Minister of Health is to blame.....it is scandalous that our own ministry of health will just open his mouth and declare that they have a drug.
I'll attach a picture of what they told us in the initial stage when we first though it never existed.

phreakabit: Nice answers, you seem like someone knowledgeable in these things. Whats Ur view on the use if foodgrade hydrogen peroxide? Its know that pathogens can't survive in oxygen, and hydrogen peroxide poses an extra oxygen molecule. I think it might not cure but will surely help.

The way people talk about viruses is unprecedented. I could probably count the number of viruses that there are CURES for on the fingers on my hand.
If it's known that the pathogens can't survive in Oxygen and we should starve them of oxygen....what about our own cells? They should kill the patients with the virus right?
Until Penicillin came....millions died from infections.
The common cold has no vaccine or cure till date(and that's a viral infection too).
HIV has no cure till now....billions have been invested in its research and it's still being invested.
Malaria killed far more than you can count until the antimalarial came( it still does till now though due majorly to people's ignorance - they always present at the 11th hour to the hospital)

Stupidity at its peak. So what did he do when he came to Nigeria?
Did he present to the Hospital as someone with a history of contact with Ebola?
Was there any drug for Ebola in Nigeria?
How well did he protect for himself?
Someone that went about shaking the Nigerian Ambassador to Liberia....had several people touching him without warning then and she's there talking about looking for a good health system.
That Lady sure doesn't know what she's saying

sandijey: What do u mean u would be more surprised if am not part of them. Please if u wanna start taking jabs at me. I can go there. Because I said stop spreading panic if has turned to me being ignorant and on denial. If u cannot argue reasonably don't quote me again.

I'll still have to quote you again.
I don't spread panic.
The nature of my job while not allowing me to get ruffled over these,it however doesn't stop me from appreciating what is on ground.
Spreading the information as much as possible isn't panic. And that's what in saying.
Lots of people are still in denial and that long story by a General something some few comments above mine is an example of what I meant by misinformation.
Sorry about the jab. It was totally uncalled for. Just couldn't resist it(felt that comment wouldn't be complete without putting it in).

sandijey: I stopped coming to nairaland at a time. Was becoming paranoid. I had a big fight wiv my brother and he said I should stop behaving like an illiterate. That was when I checked myself. All the diseases his quoting, did it kill people in 1 year. The ebola virus has been there since 1970s how many people has it killed. The population of those people in Liberia guinea and Sierra Leone are relatively small but don't they all go through the same routine of an average African. Don't they have transport system too where different people can come in contact wiv the virus? Are some of them not also running away to sick spiritual health. Why hasn't it killed the whole population? Stop causing panic and stop spreading unconfirmed reports. just follow this thread from the beginning to the end. Most of the comments are hear say.



According to the who. The mode of contact is not as bad as they make it sound. The mode of contact is exactly how other people have gotten affected in other countries. Someone even wrote how it is also airborne. Also lies. If it was Liberia would have been wiped out. Some people just bringing out crazy theories of how money can carry the virus. Then there would be nobody in guinea and Sierra Leone.

I'm wondering what you meant by its not as bad as they made it sound.
It passed through a Hospital and 9 people are now confirmed infected and you're here talking about it being not as bad as they said it was.
An educated should be able to drop the hearsay and pick the reasonable part. Denial won't make it go away......it comes in epidemic and they don't even have an idea of what the reservoir is.
Three cases of meningitis following each other means there's an impending epidemic and you buckle up...
2 cases of rabies in the same area calls for quick dissemination of information.
These are cases of how they stop epidemics. You don't wait till you get 50.
If there had been enough information from the first time Sawyer came in....maybe the numbers might not be up to this.
there are lots of ignorant people out there and I'd be more surprised if you're not part of them.

GenBuhari: [size=28pt]

All the Ebola hyteria is being whipped up by America to test experimental vaccines on Nigerians.

By September this year they may start the vaccinations, the vaccine will then start killing more people, which they would report as further Ebola deaths and make even more panicked Nigerians rush to get the vaccine.

This message is very important!

Do not take any experimental vaccines!!

Ebola (if it exist at all) is not airborne and therefore no more contagious than hepatitis. All you need to do is continue taking your usual precautions against all contagious illness.

There are news reports that locals in the area of so-called Ebola hotspots in West Africa are accusing the European/American run Ebola medical centres of bringing and spreading Ebola- that is very telling!

They are probably already testing the vaccines in those countries on people who merely have something like malaria and who they have deliberately "diagnosed " as having Ebola. When the patient dies the call it an Ebola death.

Dont fall victim to Ebola hoax

A word is enough for the wise


Perspective:

Influenza and Rabies kill far more people every year around the world yet there is no hysteria[/size]

Hmmmm.
So does malaria and pneumonia and all the other shits. But they don't come as epidemics. They're random and sporadic.
Stick to what you know and leave the Conspiracy Theories to where it belongs....bar room talks and back room Internet chat groups.
Happened to lose a colleague to a viral hemorrhagic fever and I know it's true.
Have seen the effects of vaccines and I know they work. People have been dieng without the vaccines so I'm sure using it won't kill nore

Deepfreezer: tell him please. in as much as its good to create awarrness and educate people on preventive measures about da disease. I hate da fact that some people create unecessary PANIC amongst us.

Like the way you're throwing the word Panic around.
What's the PANIC you're even tossing around got to do with what's on ground?
I think you should read around it.
There's a disease on ground. It's live and real and it's no longer a rumor.
It's spread will not increase if given more coverage by the media. Being quiet about it won't make it go away.
Numbers are increasing daily from the nobody is infected to 1 to 2 to 7 to 9 and God knows what else is hidden and you're here talking about panic.
I'm sure the Nurse went to Enugu after reading what you typed about it not being serious.
Don't be so quick to forget that 200 people dead from a disease is far above what constitutes an epidemic which is on its own an emergency

sandijey: Creating awareness is different from causing panic. Panic is what i see everywhere. People carrying false info and nairaland putting it on front page. It's just wrong. It has died down now. As at last week it was as if the world will come to an end. At times like this it is wrong to pass unconfirmed informations. That is what I mean. Considering how fast false news fly wiv this age of technology. Everybody is just talking their own. Nobody is sure again.



Anyway I don't expect anything less. For now aids and the others u mentioned seems less deadlier than ebola. Bottom line, people should stop spreading false news.

I kinda agree with you. But the line is so difficult to cross.....and more so in a country like Nigeria where the Govt is more likely to lie.
Wondering which is worse....false information or misinformation.
The Govt claiming to have put everything in place to checkmate it while primary contacts are there roaming around. All it takes is for 1 of these so called primary to be diagnosed with the virus and boom.....all the other 'secondary' automatically becomes primary if you get my drift.
False information is dangerous at this time but the Govt always leaves room for speculation with their half truths and white faced lies

sandijey: All I no is. Liberia and other west African countries have been battling wiv it since the outbreak, not up to 1000 people have died. If u follow Nigerian press, people will die before the ebola gets to them. Especially nairaland news. If it was so contagious 1 million people will be dying per day. Its just basic hygiene. Even bird flu that was airborne or so, did millions of people die? This is a phase. It will pass.

But that's what is called awareness. You can't really separate the two. You can't tell the press not to tell people what they're dealing with so as not to create panic. What will the panic do? How will people know to wash their hands when you're here proposing this Shangri la model of life where things just pass without any conscious effort by the populace.
Nigeria has more people per square Metre than all the other nations you mentioned.
Spanish flu killed close to 50 million people so the number isn't so scary when you look closely.
HIV started small and gave enough warning.....it has killed over 35million people worldwide till now.
Take time to go through this. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/ebola-epidemic-plagued-by-fear-9636462.html

Reference: Oh yeah. And neither did Mr. Sawyer 'look sick' when he boarded that flight to Lagos if not the stewards will have noticed and called for a doctor in flight or reported a 'suspected case' to our authorities when he landed as a suspected case coming from an ebola hit country. Where have I heard 'the sickness no dey show for face'.....oh it concerns HIV.....and I thought the 'V' in HIV stands for virus not visitor that rings the door bell and agrees to come back at a later time or date if you don't answer. Some people will show symptoms with a low viral load, others will look normal with a virus racked body, our physiologies differ, our immune systems differ, so are our bodies abilities to resist and fight off the virus so how can anyone say for sure that until you are vomiting and stooling you cannot transmit. That is just ridiculous.

You seem to be the only one or one of the few with an intact reasoning faculty.
We're talking about the beginning of what could be termed an epidemic and someone is talking about not creating panic.
The Asian flu took millions. Spanish flu took close to 50 million people. That's close to a third of Nigerias population.
Mode of transmission....incubation period and period of infectivity is still poorly understood in other countries.
The best defense is surely to assume the worst. A Primary contact is different from a secondary contact and she was a primary contact.
All it takes to turn the Secondary contacts to primary is for the lady to test positive. Don't test the resilience of this virus.
The Spanish flu killed several millions less than 100 years ago. The virus isn't counting numbers. It can easily take the whole country captive and shut everything down if care isn't taken

Orikinla: Read more is normal not only on blogs, but also on other websites and lest we forget IT IS NOT BY FORCE.
So, don't make jest of the OP. The link may not even belong to his or her blog.
Did he or she put it on the front page?

The most popular money making bloggers in Nigeria have been using Nairaland to link to their blogs. And the most popular money making celebrity gossip blogger in Nigeria has successfully used read more. And she makes more money than many bank managers, except those who are stealing.
If you don't want to read more, move on.

Bloggers and reporters have also posted links to topics on Nairaland on their sites. It is conventional practice on the internet.

The topic itself is quite misleading.
You can't tell me 10 words people without confidence use...put 2 here and try to reel me into another blog site with the remaining.
It's quite lazy of the op to put up two and redirect me to aa blog for the rest when he could have copied all and then paste the blog site as his link(the blog site isn't the source of course).
A lot of people come here to read the news and click on a link if they feel it'll help and not to be redirected to another link.
I can always go to the or channels tv.
I think the Mod who put a half copied news flash is the problem. This is not a breaking news that should make the front page in such a hurry when the title is actually misleading and the story incomplete. Dint know Nairaland has now become a link to other blog sites. Why give 2 and leave the rest somewhere else.

9jawear: Where has EBOL been all this while that SUDDENLY it appears some unsurmountable catastrophy? There is always a ploy to make Africa look HELPLESS and DESTITUTE for some reasons best known to them. AND THEY ALWAYS WIN!

Talk of MALARIA! At what point did we AFRICANS become helpless victims of MALARIA in Africa that EURO-AMERICA now have to be where we must get MALARIA DRUGS from? Damn! We were living and thriving BARE-CHESTED when the first European Ship arrived on the shores of DINA (Elmina) 1471 and we have historical account of what happened to Europeans who came. For over a century they were coming and dying like sick chickens. The so-called MISSIONARIES were dying like diseased chicken on arrival from MALARIA, some as early are as two weeks! Later all they had to do was to humble their ego and allow 'NATIVE DOCTORS' to treat them with HERBS!

WE NEVER DIED FROM MALARIA!!

So, so..when did we lose our intelligence as AFRICANS and got hooked on to the CHLOROQUINE and now ATER..what-what? Aren't people now dying from these drugs?

WHY HAVEN'T I TAKEN ANY OF THESE DRUGS at age 31 (all my lfe)? I still take the herbs I saw my grandmother use and the wisdom is DON'T WAIT TO GET MALARIA before taking it.

So, there so must Media Hype and exaggeration over this ANTWERP-MADE Laboratory Virus clled EBOLA in Africa. Can someone SHUT off that and allow us some senerity of MIND to think out our solutions? No, they won't because it's all part of the MARKET CREATION PROCESS!!

It's like when you have Maths question before you to think through and ONE IS DRUMMING AND SINGING in the class!!!

IT IS NOT THE EBOLA THAT IS KILLIN PEOPLE, IT IS THE MEDIA SPIN AND NOISE THAT'S FRUSTRATING US FROM PICKING THE SOLUTION!

In ancient times, the HERBALIST took a lonely walk in the dead silence of the dawn on his search for cure. The mind requires silence in its search for solution!

ALLOW AFRICA TO THINK ON ITS OWN!!f it's food THEY CLAIM we need, they will FORCE GMO on us. If it's Security they claim we need, they'll force War and Military bases on us. If it's cure they claim we need, they'll force drugs on us!

It's no genuine desire to SOLVE AFRICA'S PROBLEM! It's a greedy QUEST to 'commodify' and commercialise our challenges FOR PROFIT!


AFRICANS AND NIGERIANS SHOULD WAKE UP

Just needed to have a record for this.....thats why I'm quoting it. lovely reasoning even if I don't agree with some parts

Eefhay: You seem to have lost the relativity when you singled out oil companies as yard stick to measure values of engineers. How much do federal and state governments pay Engineers as compared to medical workers in the same establishment. How much do oil companies pay medical doctors. at least in any teaching hospital, you have almost all professionals be it engineers, accountant etc.. and in oil companies also, they have medical workers... Its when you compare based on establishments you tend to define lucrative.

The op tried. But he forgot to post the salary of Doctors and Nurses and Pharmacists and other health professionals in those companies.
You can't be comparing private companies to government establishments.
What percentages of graduate engineers work in those companies?
Ask how much a single lawyer earns or a judge and you'll be blown off.. but what percentage of the lawyers become SANS and Judges?
The average health professional is working and well paid.....in Govt settings at least.
Ask the Engineers and the Geologist.
Let them tell you how many are in the banks....and how many are in the classrooms and how many are presently jobless lost in the humdrum of job seeking.

adeoladrg: Okay, I graduate from a pharmacy school, undergo the compulsory internship and NYSC. Then I got a job in a teaching hospital. While at that, I applied to the West African Postgraduate College of Pharmacy for a specialty in say Paediatrics or CVD. I spend 6 years undergoing the process and graduate from the college.

I noticed you medical doctors are emphasizing the nursing home thing, that's misplaced thinking. The advent of consultant pharmacy started in nursing home, yes! But the roles of consultant pharmacists have since expanded.

You said this urself:

Consultant Pharmacists are now practicing in a
wide variety of other settings, including subacute
care and assisted living facilities, psychiatric
hospitals, hospice programs, and in home and
community-based care --

Go to YouTube and see what obtains, and let me clear another misconception you guys have held on tightly to.

Been a consultant pharmacist doesn't destroy the doctor-patient link. The doctor everywhere is the owner of the patient, as u like to say it. It only makes pharmacist more knowledgeable and be a force in his specialty. Never have I seen or heard that a consultant pharmacist changed a prescription, never! It's not allowed. You guys never even bothered to ask what the synergistic effect takes place. The practice is to confer recommendations on the prescription(myt be change in dose or suggest a more effective drug or delete an unnecessary drug, or correct drug interactions, suggest alternative therapy and lot of other things) with good reason and document the intervention. I tell you what? A doctor must therefore be cocksure of his prescription b4 the pharmacist comes to scrutinize. Those documented interventions are even more dangerous for the arrogant doctors cos if anything worse happens to the patient and the consultant pharmacist decides to publish his recommendation that wasn't taken by the doctor, he could lose his job or even his license.

Meanwhile, it's feel different when a doctor seeks an opinion from a consultant pharmacist, other than an ordinary pharmacist who just dispenses.

That's the reality of things. Our doctors want to boss everything, now tell me how this is unnecessary and won't help patient care.

Yes.....you should be a Consultant.
But in the Nigerian setting, it's a whole kettle of fish and YES, a Consultant Pharmacist has changed the prescription of a Medical Consultant.
What's are the other 20 states in US still waiting for since you told us what's obtainable in 30 states.
Your wikipedia said they practice in Pharmacies so I don't get it. Every profession keeps agitating for broader relevance in the scheme of things which isn't wrong actually but I'm wondering the reason for this sudden rush to open Internet pages and tell us what's obtained in a far advanced settings compared to our rural settings.
Personally don't see anything wrong with a Pharm D as you'd need it for a career advancement in the US.
Don't think we're ripe for the Consultancy here though.
NB - that's my personal opinion though

adeoladrg: Okay, I graduate from a pharmacy school, undergo the compulsory internship and NYSC. Then I got a job in a teaching hospital. While at that, I applied to the West African Postgraduate College of Pharmacy for a specialty in say Paediatrics or CVD. I spend 6 years undergoing the process and graduate from the college.

I noticed you medical doctors are emphasizing the nursing home thing, that's misplaced thinking. The advent of consultant pharmacy started in nursing home, yes! But the roles of consultant pharmacists have since expanded.

You said this urself:

Consultant Pharmacists are now practicing in a
wide variety of other settings, including subacute
care and assisted living facilities, psychiatric
hospitals, hospice programs, and in home and
community-based care --

Go to YouTube and see what obtains, and let me clear another misconception you guys have held on tightly to.

Been a consultant pharmacist doesn't destroy the doctor-patient link. The doctor everywhere is the owner of the patient, as u like to say it. It only makes pharmacist more knowledgeable and be a force in his specialty. Never have I seen or heard that a consultant pharmacist changed a prescription, never! It's not allowed. You guys never even bothered to ask what the synergistic effect takes place. The practice is to confer recommendations on the prescription(myt be change in dose or suggest a more effective drug or delete an unnecessary drug, or correct drug interactions, suggest alternative therapy and lot of other things) with good reason and document the intervention. I tell you what? A doctor must therefore be cocksure of his prescription b4 the pharmacist comes to scrutinize. Those documented interventions are even more dangerous for the arrogant doctors cos if anything worse happens to the patient and the consultant pharmacist decides to publish his recommendation that wasn't taken by the doctor, he could lose his job or even his license.

Meanwhile, it's feel different when a doctor seeks an opinion from a consultant pharmacist, other than an ordinary pharmacist who just dispenses.

That's the reality of things. Our doctors want to boss everything, now tell me how this is unnecessary and won't help patient care.

Yes.....you should be a Consultant.
But in the Nigerian setting, it's a whole kettle of fish and YES, a Consultant Pharmacist has changed the prescription of a Medical Consultant.
What's are the other 20 states in US still waitng fe

azimibraun: Can the physician alone do the job? That is just one person's opinion. Its jst semantic. Ppl's relationship smtime if cordial makes them overlook policies. To (aid) a physician is strictly does not translate to bin a servant of the physician. The work is cut out for both parties by the laws governing the hospital and practice. Let the chief pharnacist head the pharmacy dept, let the chief Nursing officer head the Nursing dept, let a chief or Senior doctor head the doctors as an adminitrator or any of the chiefs frm the various depts can head the hospital. It mst not be the Doctors only.

That's what's obtainable. The Pharmacists head the Pharmacy dept....the Nurses the Nursing dept.
You should have known these before posting comments here. Doubt you even know what the whole fight is all about.

Morotov1: OBEMBE look ALIKE. The guy has been spewing brimstone about nurses all over the internet, national dailies and television that people are beginning to wonder what exactly is with this guy. You spend time belittling nurses only when you felt threatened by them, and i think doctors should be because if ever FG will look for other alternative; nurses will be their first point of call.
With 2 or 3 years of update course or scheduled masters degree channelled towards patients care........we will have mid-level players as they have in US and some other developed countries that have a goal of sprouting us out of our 182 or 192 position we are in.

And you seem to think the major problem with that isn't our health facilities? We just don't have the equipments. Name any sector in Nigeria where we have any facility in the top 100 anything in the world.
Read about malpractice in the US or UK with their advanced machines and you'll realise half of what it takes to make a diagnosis.
For me.....Nurses and Pharmacists are professionals in their field,we just need a proper job description.

creativeEngr: I'm afraid you're just beating around the bush and stating the obvious in your reply... Except you're from another planet, even a learner knows there is no sector of Nigeria that is functioning and from my comments including those from previous posts, you should get a better perspective on this - https://www.nairaland.com/creativeengr/posts

Let's stay within the issues please..

1. It's hypocrisy of the highest grade, coupled with arrogance when the same people who play a major role in killing the health sector also turn around to hold everyone ransom for more pay, more titles, etc. PENGASSAN doesn't embark on strike action like NMA, ASUU do incessantly, if that's worth anything sir... Anyways, I guess the hypocrisy is still justified in Nigerian context since we are all living under failed political leadership...

2. Thankfully, an article currently on the front page (i.e. last paragraph especially) that highlights my thoughts and concerns too... https://www.nairaland.com/1809328/nma-strike-nurses-perspective. Would like your response on this article...

3. The real issues behind the strike have more to do with the quest for a larger slice of the national cake not professionalism. I really don't blame doctors for asking for more, it's the system of governance and our society at large... the same society that gives Doctors the illusion that their course is the most difficult and as such, they feel they are doing us all a favour bbecause they chose to study medicine...

NMA hardly go on strike and the strike isn't really about the national cake. The article you referred to is still a perspective. It depends on which side of the divide you are.
It's not the society that told Doctors theirs is a difficult one. It's actually difficult. At least Guinness book of world record seems to think so

The writer is highly intelligent and hasn't spoken an untrue word.
The issue of MRI in every hospital can't be over stretched....that's the norm in UK. Nigeria is a struggling country in all ramifications and lack of MRI isn't because of the doctors but the country. He's talking of MRI in the hospitals when out secondary schools don't even have class rooms. That's a problem of every sector in Nigeria.
I can tell you first hand that Doctors in UK or US or most other countries live far above the average Doctor here or Nurses at that.
The Nurses are not really involved in this fight because majority if them went to Nursing school and don't even have a degree to start with.
The issue of CMD I think is peculiar to Nigeria and I personally don't care who is the CMD as long as the hospital gets better for it. But we all know everyone is fighting for money so I can't begrudge anyone that.
The guy said a lot of half truths for someone that has worked over there.

kmariko: Sir I beg to disagree, In california Pharm.Ds with advanced training can see patients not just drugs ( a new legislation )

Secondly, a doctor does not have to countersign a prescription written by a physician assistant. Some physician assistants own their clinic and a collaborative MD ( who are just there on paper).

No... Nurse practioners are not the only ones that can replicate doctors,. they do not replicate doctors but function within the limitations of their training just like doctors.

It will be nice if you can read up on each states specific laws.... they are not uniform.

Lastly, it does not matter the field a lot of work is required in training in any professional field, it is not limited to health care.

thanks

And those laws that are not uniform is what you want to bring to Nigeria?
Traditional birth attendants are empowered by law to take simple deliveries of pregnant women inNigeria in RESOURCE POOR settings.......so someone on the internet shouldn't get confused and think that's the norm.
In United States(New York).....nurses with Doctorate degrees in Nursing care are allowed to see patients in emergency care and treat the ones that won't need specialist care in places where there are no GP. And yes ...the United States don't have enough Doctors. It's already a source of debate over there at the moment and that's a well developed settings.
We're doctors not lawyers and you give be giving examples of international best practices not based on some states in us. Check the UK, check Germany, check RSA. Don't throw a Minnesota law at a country.

DebateNigeria: Ok. Noted. Will do some research. But not a bad idea.

You dont need to do any research...that guy doesn't know squibs about what obtains in any country. He is just pulling those figures from thin air.
Doctors do the prescription.
But for me.....it's quite surprising the way Nigeria is now being compared to the US health system by mischief makers.
We must have really gone far in our hospitals.

kmariko: President of the Boston medical center is not an MD


Who We Are
About the CEO

Kate Walsh
President and CEO

Kate Walsh, CEO and President of Boston Medical Center, effective March 1, 2010Kate Walsh became the president and CEO of Boston Medical Center (BMC) on March 1, 2010.



Prior to her appointment at Boston Medical Center, Ms. Walsh served as executive vice president and chief operating officer of Brigham and Women’s Hospital for five years. She served previously as the chief operating officer for Novartis Institutes for Biomedical Research.

Ms. Walsh began her career in health care as a summer intern at Brookside Health Center in the Boston neighborhood of Jamaica Plain. Upon finishing graduate school, she held positions in a number of New York City hospitals including Montefiore, Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center, Saint Luke’s – Roosevelt Hospital Center and the New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation. She relocated to Boston and joined Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) as an assistant general director in medical services and was promoted to vice president of medical services and primary care and then to senior vice president of medical services and the MGH Cancer Center.

Ms. Walsh received her bachelor’s of arts degree and a master’s degree in public health from Yale University. She is a member of the Boards of Trustees of Emmanuel College, the YMCA of Greater Boston, the Boston Public Health Commission, the Massachusetts Hospital Association, the Council of Teaching Hospitals, and the Yale University School of Medicine. She is also a member of the Advisory Board of the National Institutes of Health Clinical Center, the Health Care Institute and the Boston Green Ribbon Commission.

Ms. Walsh, a native of Brookline, is married and has two child

Lack of knowledge is dangerous.
Boston Medical Centre is a private medical academic centre.
You'll be surprised that most of those places you mentioned are wholly owned by individuals and corporations so they can put anyone they see fit to head.
And you keep forgetting that Nigeria isn't a Capitalist country and we don't have any centre in the country that can compare to any of these centre's.
It's also one of the leading Medical research institutions in US of A.
We don't have any real research going on in our universities here not to talk of our Hospitals. Need I Say More.

double0seven: To me all the ranting of the doctor about the confusion that will result from other health professionals being made doctors.

Now, seriously... we know that Medical Practice didn't start in Nigeria.

The question is this: in US, UK, Canada and other advanced countries, do other health professionals like Pharmacist, Nurses, Physiotherapist advance in their careers to become consultants? From all indications it seem that do.

So why should Nigeria be different because Nigerian doctors says.

Secondly because these other health professionals can advance to become consultants, does it mean that jus and dick & harry nurse, pharmacist etc can become a consultant?

I'm sure that's not the case. I'm sue there are stringent requirements for them to become consultants.

In solving this issue, I believe the government should just follow global best practices.

But for doctors to put up blanket no against other professionals becoming consultants seems wrong.

You're right about there being Consultants in other fields abroad. Global best practice is a loose word being thrown around here for personal gains.
The role of a Consultant here in the country called Nigeria is something that Nigeria isn't ripe for and it's going to turn the health sector into turmoils.
Our hospitals are below anything that could be called a Specialist Hospital. There's no real job description in the health sector.
The first set of Consultants that were appointed disrupted the Working in the places they appointed them. I'll give some examples here.
1. A right thinking person would assume that the appointment if a consultant nurse would mean that she'd probably carry out her Nursing Care to a global and world standard but that wasn't the case. The only thing it achieved was that of a Nurse telling a Doctor that he can't dress a wound as she had already done the wound dressing and the Doctor can't open it again. I would have expected that she would have imparted more knowledge to her student Nurses by telling them what to do during Medical rounds , intelligent questions to ask and what their profession is about.
2. Same could be said of the appointed Pharmacist. Can't go into the details right now.
What obtains outside means there's an evolving field as I can give you links to infightings in the health sector over there.
Until there's a clear job description in the country and there's a real relativity in place in terms of salary and remuneration .....we shouldn't be talking of what's obtainable there as the salary differences between there and here aren't the same thing.

drgeorge1: *POINT OF CORRECTION*
1. MDCAN: Medical and Dental Council of Nigeria.

MDCAN isn't Medical and Dental Council of Nigeria. That's MDCN.
MDCAN is Medical and Dental Consultants Association of Nigeria