₦airaland Forum

Bishopkingsley:
Jesus is God
Only God can reveal to people that Jesus is God

As for jehova witness
Jehova witness error is from pit of hell

Kobojunkie:
You should instead send for your JW boys so you all can engage in your usual "banter" first.
Maybe when you are done, you can visit the Gospels for God's own Truth.

MightySparrow:
The whole story of redemption somehow not logical.It generates much questions than answers it intends to proffer.
Why would a third party die for a sin not committed?
Why Jesus? Why didn't God destroy the Devil for once? Theologians in the house over to you.

Study The Bible With Jehovah's Witnesses! by MightySparrow: 2:34pm On Jun 25
Jesus = Archangel Michael = Firstborn from the dead = beginning of God's creation = Alpha and Omega = The beginning and the end = the judge of dead and the living = Everlasting Father = only begotten Son = Only begotten of the Father = Express Image of invisible God = in him all fullness of Godhead deelleth bodily = creator of visible and invisible, in him all things consist = he created all things including himself= He fills all in all = God

Your Triune God has been assiduously making plans to come to earth to die in the hands of men, why would the 3 of them have the time to plan for destruction of the Devil?

Funkybabee:
Happy Sunday to my fellow Nairaland ladies and gentlemen.

There's something that prone me to create a counter thread like this because it seems some people outside Christianity did not know why we called Jesus a son of God and God..


I know you guys also believe in scripture so u guys can also follow my little explaining backup by the scripture which u are free to ask me any questions that might have contradict ur opinion.

Let begin from Gen 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

These verses made it clear to us that God (The Father, is made of flesh, spirit and word)

Now come to John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1 :

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

1 :

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

1 :

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

1 :

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

1 :

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

1 :

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

1 :

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

1 :

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

1 :

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

1 :

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

1:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

1:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 :

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.



Now you can read the verse 14 very well, it speaks about the word again, which dwell with us and was made a flesh, which is Jesus Christ that John bear his witness.

Now, the same God sent his word(Jesus Christ) to us to deliver us from our sins which his part of him in the beginning states they are one

And back to the slave and son arguments

Every body knows that there's different between slaves, servant and child

God has given us power to become a son of God through Jesus Christ in John1:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


Why would I now come down to a stage of being slaves while I have access to be a son or even friend through Christ..


Fine, I can call me a servant, that's when am serving my Father, which is God.

In dictionary, there's different definition given to this word one by one

Slave

Servant

Child

So remember that, Christ have redeem us from the curse of the law, u are Gods children, there are a lots benefit in Christ.

It does not cost you anything to follow him, salvation is free, you can repent today and be the son of God.

Don't let devil deceive you that ur sins cannot be redeemed, there's no amount of sins that Christ blood cannot redeem. Give your life to him today because tomorrow might be too late.

Shalom

madegreatbygrace:
No mind them jare my brother. Some will sink to the lowest depth to defend warped doctrines. His accomplice has suddenly gone into hiding after he was humbled. I’ve never met such dishonest and insincere bunch.

Your Trinity mentors ,the Geneva Bible referenced Proverbs 8:22 & John 1:1 together.

Therefore, proven that Colossians 1:15 is super accurate.
Genesis 4:19 & Colossians 1:15 "first born of every son is what it is.. anti Trinity.
The Word, Jesus is first created before both worlds of heaven and earth.
Emusan LIENUS, the word Jesus is a not a mere speech of God's mouth, John 1:1 Geneva Bible.
Your lie on Nairaland exposed.


Bros, swallow the bitter pill of Bible truth.
Your KJV can't hush it.
Reno Omokri no tell una ?

Emusan:
So you know there are several firstborn in the Bible which are used literally and Jesus Christ is one but you and your lying brothers have been interpreting "Firstborn of every Creature" to mean FIRSTCREATED BEING

[s]You can even see how your darling Geneva Bible is exposing your lying mouth the mouth.
[/s]
This post needs to be bookmarked!

Genesis 4:19 & Colossians 1:15, in the case of both Reuben and Jesus Christ, their claims to preeminence as first born was literal.

John 1:1 Geneva Bible,
Jesus "the Word is first begotten before both worlds"

That is , Jesus the Word is first CREATED before both worlds" (the world of heaven & earth) .
Emusan LIENUS & his friends, You guys can't TWIST that statement in the Geneva Bible.
God possessed his son, Wisdom in the same manner God possessed heaven and earth.
The works HE created, Genesis 14:19,22.
The same God possessed you & the womb you came out from, Psalms 139:13-15

The same Geneva Bible, your Trinity mentors @ Proverbs 8:22 proven that "Wisdom/Jesus Christ" was CREATED before the works of old"


Emusan LIENUS, the 1599 Geneva Bible @ Colossians 1:15 & John 1:1 proven you're a LIAR.

madegreatbygrace:
I agree that psalm 89 is a messianic psalm. A messianic psalm speaks of the person and works of the Messiah.


However, the fact that it’s a messianic psalm doesn’t imply that every verse or portion of that chapter speaks of the Messiah.


Then, how can one recognize a Messianic psalm?

When there is a reference to the Messiah in a psalm, and it is also applied to Christ and expounded in the New Testament.

Sometimes a whole psalm applies to Christ, e.g., Psalm 22.

Sometimes a paragraph, e.g., Psalm 40:6-10.

Sometimes several verses, e.g., Psalm 69:4, 9, 21. Sometimes a single verse, e.g., Psalm 41:9.

Some of the psalms are occupied entirely with the Person and the thoughts and feelings of our Lord while others clearly refer to the experience of the psalmist, and then there is included an isolated reference to the Messiah.

A good example is Psalm 69 when David exclaims:

“O God, thou knowest my foolishness, and my sins are not hid from Thee,” he obviously is referring to himself (v. 5).

But when he says: “They gave me…gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink” (v. 21), and these words are applied to Christ in Matthew 27:34, 48, they are clearly Messianic. So we must be careful to distinguish between the spiritual experience of the writer of the psalm and the prophetic reference to Christ Himself.

Then let’s look at Psalm 89 contextually

“Also I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for him forever, And My covenant shall stand firm with him. His seed also I will make to endure forever, And his throne as the days of heaven. “If his sons forsake My law And do not walk in My judgments, If they break My statutes And do not keep My commandments, Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, And their iniquity with stripes. Nevertheless My lovingkindness I will not utterly take from him, Nor allow My faithfulness to fail. My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips. Once I have sworn by My holiness; I will not lie to David:”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭89:27-35‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Psalm 89 expounds the Davidic covenant fulfilled by David’s greater Son, the Messiah.

It says in verse 29 :

“His seed also I will make to endure forever, And his throne as the days of heaven.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭89:29‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

We both know Christ is David’s seed according to the flesh.

“concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

The seed that endures forever is Christ. Whose seed again?

David’s seed.

Therefore, v27 is referring to David and not the messiah.

Case closed

HedwigesMaduro:
God's word you quoted were given to the ISRAELITES. Except you can tell me where Christians were given the same instruction in the New Testament. And before you start the "so are you telling me we shouldn't follow the Old Testament" that most of your like resort to, I'll agree the passages you quoted in the Old Testament apply to Christians if you could prove to me that your church forbids women in their period from attending your services as commanded in the same Old Teastament, or if you guys follow all the rules God gave in Leviticus 15.

OBALOLA55:
ACCORDING TO JEHOVAH WITNESS, CHRIST IS AN ANGEL (MICHAEL)
I’M DONE WITH YOU

achorladey:
Achorladey dey Bible? Show word for word

I copied from your post that ...............(Jesus Christ is Archangel Michael) .......show it word for word

You said Achorladey is son of God.................no be me talk am. I don't have to show you word for word.

Achorladey proven his deceit at 9:33pm on June 24,2021 .

true2god:
This request/question is self-delusional. The watchtower organization is over 100 years but their global membership and acceptance is the lowest among religious zealots worldwide. This alone shows that:

1) Your beliefs/teachings do not resonate with the people.

2) Your method of 'recruiting' new JW members is ineffective.

3) People have come to realize you guys should not be taken seriously hence the stunt in growth of JWs worldwide.

Thank you.

true2god:
You quoted 1 Thessalonian 4:16 to validate your argument but your deceit and desperation was so glaring as you try to choose the sentence, in/from the text, that favours your argument (even though you guys were deliberately misrepresenting the text and reading your theological beliefs into what the text never said). For the sake of clarity let me post it again and expose your folly once more:

New King James Version (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

1) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout,

2) with the voice of an archangel,

3) with the trumpet of God.

4) And the dead in Christ will rise first.

The emphases are on 2 and 3. If you claim that Jesus is the one having the voice of an archangel then he should also be the one having the trumpet of God. You cannot choose one and leave the other. Truthfulness and consistency is key here.
Now answer this question posed by Apostle Paul in Hebrews 1:5 and bring any biblical evidence to the contrary.

1) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

2) What is the relationship between what job said in Job 38:1-7 and what Paul said in Hebrews 1:5?

I need you answer the above questions as short as possible without juxtaposing unrelated biblical verses to confused yourself the more, as dictated to you by the watchtower. Be brief, concise and straightforward in your response to the above questions.

Thank you!

As dictated by your Bible....
Hebrews 1:1-2a, Revelation 1:1, Jesus Christ is his Father's spokesman (Matthew 17:5"Listen to him (my Son", why won't he blow the trumpet of God,his Father

You wey claim (your response to Haddeylium) Archangel accompanied Jesus, where you see am in 1 Thess 4:16?

true2god:
Using the screenshot of what you believed to be a traditional view of the person of Christ in 1599 doesn’t make sense and borne out of desperation and deceit. Aside from the fact that what you screenshot is currently against the teachings of the KJV translators (the ANGLICAN CHURCH), the standard you are attempting to create can be used against the watchtower as well. Let me give you some pieces of beliefs that JW hold as truth, as taught and propagated by
Charles Taze Russell the founder of watchtower track and bible society, which are now seen as false teachings:

1) That the holy spirit was a person
2) That Jesus was divine
3) That the celebration of Christmas is ok
4) That the world will end in 1914
5) That old biblical prophet will return to earth in 1935 (Berth Serim). Etc

Most of the teachings above have been jettisoned by JW as false as they claimed that the light has become brighter. The above are your beliefs that you no longer hold onto. I can as well use your old beliefs to validate my argument, the position which you tried to create on your 1599 Anglican Church belief, which have never featured in any Anglican church doctrine.

Now let me go back to the crux of the matter, that is your erroneous claim that Jesus was/is an angel. Hebrews 1:5 have already knocked out that claim. You are free to push Hebrews 1:5 under the bus in order to push WTS ideology. It is not a crime anyway.

Is the Anglican Church doctrine the holy Scriptures ?
Is the Anglican Church the Government of England?

The Anglican Church NEVER at any time disclaimed anything in the Geneva Bible.


Your Trinity mentors agreed that Jesus is Archangel Michael (screenshot evidences).
Ask your Trinity brethren, KNOWMORE56.
He knows Jesus Christ is an angel


Hebrews 1:5, Job 38:7 Bros, Jesus is son of God, are angels sons of God?

John 8:38, Was Jesus present in Job 38:4-7 ?

Jesus- his Father's son.
Angels- his Father's sons.
Jesus & angels are Brothers , his peers in the spiritual realm.
Hebrews 1:9,Almighty Yahweh their God is peerless.

Bros, no DECEIVE yourself.

livingchrist:
Do well and read again more slowly,
It was written that Jesus sanctified his brothers, was it Angel's Jesus sanctified and is Jesus a mediator to angels?
Get wisdom

livingchrist:
Weep on, Jesus is Jehovah God.
All Angels worship Jesus.

Hebrews 1:6
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

MaxInDHouse:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, what a pity!

You don't know the difference between the two!

Well try to learn:

Noun
OBEISANCE

Demonstration of an obedient attitude, especially by bowing deeply; a deep bow which demonstrates such an attitude.
An obedient attitude. ~ Oxford Dictionary

So when a King is installed in the midst of God's people all the subjects are to do OBEISANCE to him but our worship belongs to only one person: the true God! John 17:3

achorladey:
Archangel dey bible, Jesus dey bible, Achorladey no dey bible

MightySparrow:
The same old question. Don't mind MaximumSide, JWs opinion is just one of myriad of opinions. JWs claim to know all, it is a lie. There opinion is not scripturally logical. Though, they want to force down your throat. Read the Bible yourself and other materials, make your own decision.

livingchrist:
Angels are never called Jesus' brothers rather it is men that are Jesus brothers no6 Angels.

Note it was not Angels Jesus sanctified but humans, the ones he sanctified are his brothers.


Hebrews 2:11
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

It is humans that are Jesus people not angels.

Hebrews 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Angels are ministers or servants to serve Christians in fact in the new heaven and new earth humans shall be higher than angels.


How confused can one be! How can you say God was alone but not alone,
Isaiah 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Note the word 'stretch and spread' It means actual action not ideas. It means God is the one that carried the action by himself and alone.



You see that the kjv rendition of John 1vv1 is true that Jesus who was with God was also God himself [ part of the trinity]

God himself is three persons in one being, so Jesus was with God is actually God was with himself and no other external being apart from Jehovah.
Jesus christ therefore is actually one of the persons of Jehovah.

Hebrews 1:5-9, "God brings His first born into the earth" & "anointed His first born above his mates/peers= angels, Jesus brothers. His peers in the spiritual realm where Jesus received anointing.

Job 38:1-7, JEHOVAH corrected your FALSE claims.
Where did you see Trinity in Jehovah's description of his creation work @ Job 38:1-7?
@ Isaiah 44:24, Is "I"/myself" triune ?
Is "Himself" a reference to triune ?
Can you boldly tell your kids that "I" means 3?


God's verified claim vs your GIBBERISH



Proverbs 8:22 & John 1:1, your Trinity mentors, Geneva Bible says "Jesus is the word /wisdom (a spiritual being) begotten of God before both worlds"- (spiritual and physical world).

Bros, you're posting GIBBERISH.

achorladey:
Jesus Christ is Archangel Michael( attach one bible verse that states so word for word

achorladey:
But Michael manifest in the flesh. Yes/No

true2god:
Your point 2, which the JWs use as the only prove of Jesus being an angel, is false and never supported by any other verse of the scripture. If you quote the verse completely, without omitting the 2nd statement in the same verse, you will end up exposing your fallacy.

New King James Version
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

1) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout.

2) with the voice of an archangel (the verse says 'an archangel' which means there are more than one archangels)

3) with the trumpet of God (if Jesus is the voice of an archangel, as you claim, he is equally the trumpet of God. You cannot pick and choose what you want from the verse).

My conclusion: Jesus will descend from heaven in company of an archangel, which the bible never specified his name, whose shout (voice) will herald his coming in company of other angels who will blow the trumpet of God. This is a simple English that JWs, and the governing body, had twisted in order to establish a strange and heretical theology.

Side bar:

1) New King James Version (Heb 1:5)
For to which of the angels did He EVER say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”? The answer is NONE (angel Michael inclusive).

JWs should stop talking nonsense abeg and read the Bible themselves without following the watchtower script : what the bibe really teaches.

achorladey:
Official doctrine by WTBS is that before Jesus came to earth he was Michael, on earth he was Jesus and when returned to heaven He became Michael again. You begin to wonder the difference between this believe and the trinity belief that..............

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.............God..........man.............God

Michael................Jesus...............Michael

achorladey:
You could have added since calling the dead with an archangel's voice means Jesus is an Archangel. Therefore, Jesus calling the dead with God's trumpet should equally allow them to see Jesus as ALMIGHTY GOD.

Bros, continue DECEIVING yourself.

Matthew 25:31, 2 Thess 1:7-9, 1 Thess4:16, Genesis 3:15, "the seed", Jesus Christ the Archangel,son of God leading other angels/sons of God in battle to defeat "the serpent", Satan.

1 Thess 4:16 & John 5:28-29, whose voice raise the dead?
Jesus Christ is Archangel Michael.
Confirmed biblical truth.
Trinitarians knew the truth since 1599

hupernikao:
You are yet to answer the question. Dont drop scriptures you cant defend. Where did you read Jesus in the text. Or its imagination.

hupernikao:

Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by hupernikao: 9:05am On Jun 21


Truthfully also, when study wholesomely, all scriptures pointed to Christ as the GOD of OT writings, the MAN in the prophecies of the prophets of old, revealed in HUMANITY in this last days

Hupernikao, when you forget & type GIBBERISH, the internet never forgets you messed up big time.


"Truthfully also, when study wholesomely, all scriptures pointed to Christ as the GOD of OT writings"

KNOWMORE56:
Let's start the Bible study...
Which topic are going to start with?

I will suggest "armageddon"....

What is armageddon?
Where is armageddon? and
Why armageddon?

hupernikao:
This is the verse you have been throwing un and down. You claim Jesus called himself "angel of the Lord"

Now read through your quoted verses and first show me exactly where Jesus is mentioned here.

Just one place here, where you read Jesus. Is like your imagination is really at its highest point. Since you cant read properly again.

7 And the angel of the Lord found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.
9 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
10 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
11 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction.
12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
13 And she called the name of the Lord that spake unto her,'Thou (you) God seest me':, for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?

The problem with most of you folks is the fact that you want to see or robe Jesus into every statement you read because you read with imagination not proper reading of the inspired word.

Point to where Jesus was mentioned in the above statement.

hupernikao:
Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by hupernikao: 9:05am On Jun 21


Truthfully also, when study wholesomely, all scriptures pointed to Christ as the GOD of OT writings, the MAN in the prophecies of the prophets of old, revealed in HUMANITY in this last days

Oga Hupernikao, Bros you well?

hupernikao:
I will stay on the topic of your misinterpretation of Jesus as angel first. Since you are yet to still understand what the name or the person Jesus means. Nor understand the humanity of Christ. Going into his resurrection will only bring more confusion to your reading.

All texts you quoted up there has nothing to do with what the authors implied. They are your imaginations. But it's allowed, it's a stage in Bible learning. To imagine, to lift scriptures and see self revelation in the name of spirit inspired revelation.

I am sure soon you will be able to fully read the scriptures and accept it the way the authors were inspired and interpret it as such.

Pending that time, get this right in your mind and it will help your explanation of who the man Jesus is.

1. Jesus is a man born of a woman, the savior of the world.

2. Jesus wasn't the name of God, it's a name given by God to a MAN at birth, who will at last bear the authority of God.

3. When you Read OT text, stop referencing Jesus as preexisting in any form. No text for that. I know you have text that can confuse your reading. But check it well, they are mostly prophecy of the future about a MAN to be born, Jesus. Any interpretation outside this is self imagination.

.

madegreatbygrace:
Oh, I see. Now tell me, how is firstborn used in the scripture below ?

“Also I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭89:27‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

This refers to David. You are not going to tell me this is about Christ.

Surely not!

haddeylium:
'he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth'

How much more could a scripture be so clear
What Trinity dogma can do to proper reasoning is wild

haddeylium:
That was a prophetic statement unless you mean David 'as king' became preeminence that his descendant king, Jesus Christ(1 Tim 6:15; Rev 19:16).

How you ignore the lexical sense and context cracks me up
really? you didn't even address that. You just biasedly chose the part that suit your doctrine. The Bible should define the truth not your doctrine.

Consider these various instances and see how doctrines will make you act towards the end.

Matthew 1:25(KJV)- And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
luke 2:7-And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling
Rom 8:29- that he might be the firstborn among many brethren
Hebrews 1:6-But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth
Col 1: 15- the firstborn of all creation;

Thissss