₦airaland Forum

how old are you Orikinla? you must be in your 60s

reminds me of this:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-760213.0.html

haha I will prefer to be myself.

Nayah!! what have u done to these guys?

@topic,

I will have to say sexkills. although he can be rude at times.

[quote author=aloy/emeka link=topic=782710.msg9348697#msg9348697 date=1318740429]Ladies, if you wait till 40 and not yet married and there is still no man in the picture and all your eggs are frying due to age. Will you go ahead and have a baby as a single mom or harvest and freeze some of your eggs while you continue to wait or just do nothing and be waiting for a potential suitor to knock on your doors?.

Age 35-40 is  very critical in the lives of single women and this is when they are faced with daisy situations. What will you do if you happen to be in that condition?.

You may vote if you wish.[/quote]go for a divorced man.
thank me latter for the advice.

wow. I can't believe sagamite sat on this thread. Did you sleep at all?

case in point: alek wek looks like an UNDILUTED AFRICAN. no question about that. westerners idea of African beauty is exactly that. pure, undiluted. many white men who date africans prefer that look as well.

It's really ironic that the standard of beauty for westerners are women who look Undiluted European (blond hair, blue eyes etc)
whereas for Africans, our standard of beauty is a woman who is as diluted as possible. lol
any woman that can be confused for an African american or mixed is what we Africans generally consider very beautiful.

it's all culturally ingrained on us to think that way and we can never have a civilization with that mindset. we will always look to the west to find it and therefore import their culture. this becomes degrading to us. but we don't realize it. quite sad.

e more attracted to savage looking black men.

this is a culturally ingrained self degrading mindset.
equating african features to savagery.

this is also why most whites are not attracted to African americans. it is not because african americans are ugly. but because AAs have the connotation of ghettoness, poverty etc so all these unattractive symptoms in their culture are reflected in how they are perceived in terms of physical attractiveness.

anyways, I got to go to sleep. 

Sagamite:
Alek Wek has the typical features of the under-privileged, poor Africans. Features of poor and undernourished people are not the most attractive.

here in lies your problem.
She looks authentically African. that's what you don't find attractive about her. you are a product of your environment so that's normal. lol

Sagamite:
What I asked you was where you saw her being wooed by several prominent men in the West. That is what happens to attractive women and you claimed people in the West find her attractive.

I'm most certainly sure that she's not lacking. Her fiance is a millionaire. and if it wasn't her current one, i'm sure she won't have a difficult time meeting prominent men. She lives among them!!
just like Oluchi or Liya Kebede.

these people have different standards than us regular folks. they live in a different world and in different lifestyle so their tastes are also different.
even grace jones (who I personally don't find all that attractive. but some do) had many lovers and eventually settled in marriage. all prominent western men!! She had one that was literally obsessed with her. you can google all about it.

https://www.ddotomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/grace-jones.jpg

Sagamite:
You are having a laugh. Aint ya?

Which people find her attractive? How many boyfriends and dates have you heard she has or are associated with her? Which men do you know of falling at her fit like Tyra Banks?

She is engaged actually.
https://lh4.ggpht.com/_l3I4mIyEe4E/TA4INoWPYdI/AAAAAAAAAUk/kmFUxL8bbkw/alek%20wec%20and%20boyfriend-med_thumb%5B2%5D.jpg

and likewise, there are lots of men who actually do not find Tyra Banks attractive.

because they do not portray good procreating/mating features. EVOLUTION!

tribal marks are a sign of beauty in many cultures.
but of course, other aspects can also be idealized ex  foot binding among chinese. or lip plates in women. how do these portray procreating features?
how does blond hair (considered more beautiful by whites) portray good procreating features over brunette hair?

ideal beauty isn't always about procrating features. big butt was found repulsive by white men who went to South Africa. how do you explain that?
also some asian culture idealize childish ( cute) looks in women. how can a woman who look like a 12 yr old have "good procreating features"?
many yoruba people like gap teeth in women. how is this evolutionary?
I never said they were ideal beauties. all I said was that tribal marks can be idealized as signs of beauty. ideal beauty is usually one put forward by celebrities or the prominent people in society though media or other means. otherwise, there is no such thing as an ideal beautiful woman.

and since when did you become more affluent than the korean, japanese and american hollywood stars?
skinny is in in these cultures.

Sagamite:
Because I am a product of a more affluent upbringing and living in a more affluent environment, hence my standard of beauty will be higher as people of such background are more likely to have higher beauty and less attracted to poorly-nourished people.

In my world, she is no doubt ugly but I am intelligent enough to realise that if I was less priviledged, where I wear loin cloth around my groin and carry a spear everyday I would be banging her like a wild boar high on speed. That shows she is within the range of evolutionary acceptability.

Summary: In villages of South Sudan, she might be hot. In Lagos, she is ugly.

Oba234, jot down in your notepad.

this is really ironic because most people who find Alek Wek to be attractive in the western world, are the more affluent types. Chanel and Versace for example are fashion clothing that only the richest can afford. and they are typically designed for women with slim bodies.
rich people in the west are more likely to find thinness more attractive.
each culture is different in its own way. and class culture does exist. ie ghetto americans have a different culture than upper middle class americans or europeans.

I agree with your last sentence. but that is what me and Oba234 have been telling you all along. beauty is defined by culture. lagos culture has a different idea of beauty than south sudan etc. so basically you are just repeating what we told you. that's a good sign
but there are some lagosians (like me) who appreciate south sudanese beauty. this is mostly because i've been exposed to other cultures. I've met some sudanese men and women and spending time with them I find their beauty very striking.

Sagamite:
Health issues or not health issues, can culture make people idealise them as beauty?

If there are no health issues involved. then YES people can idealize them as beauty.

tribal marks that covered the face is considered a mark of beauty for some cultures in Africa.
I found these ones repulsive.
https://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42698000/jpg/_42698525_scars203x300.jpg https://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1890/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1890-57751.jpg

Sagamite:
Alek Wek is not evolutionarily ugly, but she is definitely not evolutionarily beautiful because she has a poor-nourishment look/features.

1. So why did you call her ugly? If I go back to your previous comments. you referred to her as being extremely ugly.
2. Most Asians, many whites and many Africans (especially nomadic tribes) do not agree with you. because their culture is different. She has an healthy stature in these cultures.

Sagamite:
Are you strawmanning me or do you now agree that evolution is the one that sets a range?

re-read my post (i've added to it)
and answer my question.

how is alek wek evolutionarily ugly?
to me, evolution has to do with procreational defects. and that has to do with health. not beauty.

Sagamite:
What do you mean it has nothing to do with beauty? You are grasping at straws?

I thought you said culture is the thing that sets out perception of beauty, then you now try and claim things that culture can never convince us is beauty has nothing to do with beauty.

EVOLUTION sets the range of what we can term as beauty and it infuses ability to procreate in shaping that range. That is why bosoms are beautiful on a woman and not a man.

E.g. There is no way culture can ever convince a nation to idealise flat chested women as the epitome of beauty. Evolution will say "Nah, it is outside the range I specify".

I never said beauty was the same in all cultures, that is why I have REPEATEDLY been telling you of selected POINT(S) in the range.

You will have to summarise in your own words. Do you think I have time and the interest to read every link you send.

Summarise your arguments.

Let me for the sake of argument agree with you.

And so?

Can culture make them be regarded as the standard of "beauty"?

so how does this relate to alek wek?
what qualities about alek wek make her evolutionarily ugly?

all you are doing here is trying to create shock factors. to be honest, you are not fit to debate with.
you are like FOX news trying to debate PBS.


when you see somebody and say "she is beautiful"
you don't typically think of it as "she is not infertile" etc
that is health. like anorexia and obesity are health issues. those pics you posted.

anonymous6:
I understand what you mean but I am talking about in general the world follow a set of standards and rules and when somebody is not in that set of standards, it gives them room or a excuse to not live in the reality they are in, so it is irrelavnt that they are living real lives because all of them are but when you live a illusion that's when it becomes a problem.

To me Marie Antoinette and Gadaffi had it coming, I feel they refuse to connect to people in the real world and stayed in their illusion, which resulted in their behaviors and demise. look at Micheal Jackson, he was living a fantasy land life

I see where you are coming from too.
Michael Jackson's behavior and demise is as a result of depression and mental issues he has. so the fantasy he created for himself is to try to escape his world.  
as long as you can connect to the people around you, one should be fine. ex if you are a fashion designer, connect to people who who you are designing for etc that's why I say that it is usually people who appreciate high fashion and art that might appreciate a beauty like alek wek.

just like 20% of the population cannot connect with the 80% that appreciate Justin Bieber. lol but doesn't mean they live a fantasy world. they just live a different reality. (I know there's an exagerration there but u get my point).

That's why I used the word "unconventional" beauty to describe Alek wek.
she is not conventional like a pageant queen (miss universe, miss world etc).

I guess you do not see her beauty. and that is ok.
but there are many people out there who do see it. and that is ok too.

have we agreed to disagree?

Sagamite:
can EVER make a women or men weighing 400 pounds be the standard of beauty. That beauty point is outside the range evolution/biology allows us to see as beautiful.

this has nothing to do with beauty. It's biological/evolutionary but has nothing to do with beauty.
ex. a man wouldn't typically marry a woman with leprosy or a woman who has HIV/AIDS or weighs 400 lbs or 70 lbs no matter how beautiful she is.
doesn't mean she can't be beautiful.
same goes vice versa. a woman can be very ugly but she will still be able to marry and bear children because she is healthy!!
think about it.there won't be ugly women in the world if only the beautiful ones are evolving!!

health and beauty are not the same thing. although health can enhance beauty.
all cultures will have the same standard of beauty if that were the case.
because human health is the same in pretty much all cultures. but beauty is not.

anonymous6:
To me a world that shields you in the way life is or the way things truly are for humans, I will give you examples of people that are not living in reality because of this. examples: Paris Hilton, kardashian sisters, Marie Antoinette, Gadaffi,

lol. you are funny.
those people you mention live real lives.
It's ironic because Marie Antoinette was beheaded by the french revolutionaries. and gadaffi is currently in a cage/prison.  

you don't find it real because it is not your reality. that kind of life will be a fantasy to you.

ex. a lot of adults do not consider children to have real lives. lol because that is not their reality. but to the child, that is his/her reality.
some people out of school do not consider students to be living in real life. etc

just because you don't live in it doesn't mean it's not real.
I don't know how to explain it to you. but I hope you get my point.

Oba234:
There are some perception of beauty that is perceived by a certain society as beautify and people outside that society look at it as bizarre.  Some examples, feet binding by the chinese [/b]where young girls of upper class families had their binded so by the time they become adults they would have deformed small feet and this was considered beautiful at a certain point. Another example is western culture obsession with women bosoms as a biological Intimate.[b]The mursi tribe in east Africa believes that the bigger the plate is on a girls lips, the better she looks.

exactly!

if these societies are exposed to western culture through television, mass media and other means, they also will start to lose their traditional ideas of beauty and assimilate western ideas.

and many tribes (like you say) don't even see bosoms as sign of beauty. many women go around bare breasted and it doesn't affect the males in any way because that's not what they are conditioned to find intimate.

sagamite: Yes, majority of black people are ugly because they are poor and under/mal/wrongnourished.

no comment

Sagamite:
Culture is a definer of the beauty point(s) across a aesthetic range (that is regardable as beauty) at which the majority of people declare others as beautiful.
Biology/nature/evolution sets the aesthetic range.
Believe me, culture can never make some ranges be termed as beautiful. Evolution trumps there.

no. your television, celebrities and mass media sets this aesthetic range.
raise a child in a village with no access to television and mass media and ask her to tell you what he/she considers beautiful, you will be shocked.
people have performed this experiment where they went into remote areas that have had no exposure to western world or media. there they found that things like teeth or shaved head were considered most attractive on a woman in one village etc.

what you don't understand is that evolution is dependent on culture (and vice versa) in most places.

anonymous6:
first you brought up about suburbs and the ghetto, and the fahion world and when I expalin each three, you mix up the three together. i was talking about two differnt things. so when I say fashion world I don't mean location that was about the ghetto and suburbs

so then pls tell me: what do you define as the "real world"?
there is fashion world, there is academic world, there is industrial world, there is ghetto world. there are all different kinds of worlds. what is the real world to you?

anonymous6:
No, their are other places besides ghetto's and suburbs their are towns, cities and etc. Majority of the fashion world is not in the real world
http://www.drrobynsilverman.com/body-image/karl-lagerfeld-says-no-one-wants-to-see-curvy-women/

rotflmao
by fashion world you actually mean a location?  
then you have no clue about the fashion world.
fashion world is NYC, LONDON, PARIS, MILAN ETC. even your backyard could be one.
it's all about a state of mind.

Sagamite:
I fully understand what you wrote, I am just educating you to help you make your thinking a bit more comprehensive.

The lesson was: Perception of beauty is not only a cultural thing, there is an evolutionary and natural aspect of it.

You are wrong. You are born with a certain taste range. Like every animal, we have certian things we are programmed to look for evolutionarily. Get you notepad out and write it down as lesson of the day. I am nice and give free lectures on NL, be grateful.

you can't escape the fact that culture is the number one definer of beauty.
for example (going by your posts) you are obsessed with curves on a woman. but in Asia, the opposite is the case. etc
also, when the whites went to Sothern Africa and saw women with large curves, they found it repulsive and even brought one back to be displayed in a circus. they called her hottentot. this word is considered derogatory today. you can google the word "hottentot"

from a biological evolutionary perspective, shouldn't every culture find large curves to be a sign of beauty?
exactly! you have to consider that we humans are different from animals and plants in the sense that we do things in a way that is most times shaped in terms of social rather than biological evolution.

it is our sociability that distinguishes us from plant and animals. and culture is a large part of this.

anonymous6:
In a way the ghetto is a sad reality of the world because their are hard choices and struggle people go through in the ghetto

ok. then I'm not living in the real world then. because I don't live in the ghetto.
are you living in the real world?

I think we should all agree to disagree. esp. on this topic where beauty is a matter of opinion. as they say, it is in the "eye of the beholder"

lol @ the village girls.