₦airaland Forum

FBS:
blimey!! Did you watch the game?! Why do people talk like this?
Murray gave Nadal some serious tennis lessons. He was on TOP throughout. Nadal had no breathing space at all.
Forget the injury 'cos Murray was leading by 2 sets to love and in the 3rd set he was 3-0 up. So what the heck are you talking about? Truth is Andy was terrific tonight.

It was game, set and match.

Tank you jare

Oga, na true I talk now, I love you so therefore I tell you the truth even A-40 must agree with me on this one.

Infact I would like to see the Mavs rise up as a force in the west, a legitimate threat to the Laker domination, but the truth is right now they aren't. You need another star beside Dirk.

davidylan:
I noticed you avoided listing just TWO examples of Obama's polarizing policies.

How about just one? Giving rights and priviledges to terrorists, trying them in civilian courts. The one policy of Obama that infuriates me to the core.

If you already believe opposition to Obama is rooted in racist emotions, then there's nuthin I or anyone else will say to convince you otherwise. But how wrong you are David, so wrong.

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=385150.msg5391289#msg5391289 date=1264524400]dang! you are mean! [/quote]Oga, I'm only trying to help you now lol the sooner you move on the sooner you can truly find mrs right

. . .no worries dear, Palin is a kingmaker for now. There is only one instance where she could become President in 2012 and that is if "The People" revolt against all rules and insist that they will fall behind any party platform that field her as a candidate.

I see it highly unlikely that she will run. I don't even think she herself wants to, from what I get, she's fine being the populist that she is, being a voice for conservative America.

davidylan:
Please can you list just TWO of such polarizing policies?

Lets be factually honest . . . the only thing polarizing about Obama is his race. Period. We can pretend all we want, i know its not a conversation America likes to have but someone has to say it.

Its funny but i dont see any white house "attack dogs" ridiculing the right wing. All i see is a rabid right wing who have proclaimed from day 1 and never stop telling us that their number 1 goal is NOT the prosperity of America but the destruction of Obama.

when you say white house attack dogs . . . i'm just wondering if you're talking about manliness Cheney or Karl Rove.

Oh dear. Race again.

montelik:
Thinking like yours is the reason why things look so bleak for Obama and Dems. Your type of thinking is the surest way for them to continue to fail and lose. So Obama is the only one with the answers and anyone who disagrees is doing so out of hatred, for political gain or racism. Wow. Okay just one thing. Fact is Obama doesn't have all the answer and should start listening to other people not ignoring them. This is what made Clinton a success.

davidylan:
Get a copy, its on the web.

Lol, thanks for confirming what I know.

So all this while you were opposing it you really didnt know anything contained in the bill? Now that there was a surprise . . . typical of right wingers.

Don't put words where there aren't. I was responding to your dismissal of the usefulness of having debates on CSpan. Some of us would find it extremely useful.

davidylan:
I listed the most important one - the public option. Besides a lot of what is in the bill has been done to death here.

The public option does not exist anymore, does it? I want to know what is in the latest version of the bill that Prez is championing in here. There are 1199 pages of other things besides the PO, what are there?

Having the debates on TV would make absolutely NO difference. Those of you who simply oppose it for no reason would still go ahead and do so.

I for one am glad it wasnt debated on TV . . . it would simply have fed the insatiable 24-hr news cycle.

I watched C-Span last night, some kid named Jack or something who started a charity org, good stuff. If the debates were on TV, I would watch them diligently. Its more than feeding the news cycle, its about knowledge in the hands of the people and openess that was promised to us by Obama. I want to know what it is I am opposing or supporting if its not too much to ask of our leadership. Where is the website where we can track the stimulus bill spending?

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=385150.msg5370347#msg5370347 date=1264211533]don't let MaryJ Blige hear you say I love another. . .lol! That's my one and only love but yes, I do have a crush on Palin.[/quote]Lol, don't let her husband hear you

Why would you not want her in the White House?

While I like her, I think she's too much of a polarising figure. We don't want to demonize or antagonzie those we disagree with, but find a way to engage them - I know this is idealistic speak - but this is my hope for whoever runs for president next be it democrat or rep.

MyJoe:
@JeSoul.

Thanks for educating me. I was gung-ho about this healthcare bill and came here to ask why you allowed Brown to win! Now I am not so sure. I will see what I can find out about that bill.

Please let us know if you do. I have been asking around for answers and no one seems to know what exactly is in it. I mean when the senators themselves say to us "how we expect them to read a 1200 page bill in law lingo" you know there's a problem.

Imagine going to the grocery store, someone is selling a jar of[i] allegedly [/i] tomato sauce. The bottle is black, so you can't see the color to know if its red or not. There is no label on it, so we cannot know who made it, where it was made and when it was made. You ask the salesman for more details and he arrogantly says "how can you expect me to know what's in it". Yet we should trust the salemen - who have a horrible reputation of selling bad products in the past - that it is indeed tomato sauce and if we eat it, it will nourish our bodies.

davidylan:
I think this is common knowledge already. It was (as originally designed) intended to proffer an alternative to private insurance companies gouging Americans. Well no thanks to "blue dogs" and "Say NO" republicans . . . that has been dropped.

You dont need debates on C-Span, i think that is a red-herring. How many other republican bills were debated on C-Span?

Okay since its common knowledge, please briefly list a few things in it. Thank you.

Obama was the one who promised us debates on tv or else I wouldn't ask for it.

Prez, you gave us a good history lesson. But you still have not answered my very simple question: What exactly is in this current healthcare bill? what problems does it address? we were promised the debates would be available on C-span and we haven't seen anything.

Do you expected educated citizens of this country[b] to trust [/b] the same foolish lunatics who are giving rights and priviledges to terrorists to handle our healthcare? Sorry. I do not trust them and would rather nothing was passed than a shadow bill that may very well strip me of my current access for all I know.

Actually scratch that, I just checked and Cleveland is #1 in the rankings. They've come a long way from the season opener and Shaq not fitting in well. Lebron is already starting to dance again

What is all this trashtalking going on? aight lets all come back down to earth and be objective

Truth about the teams is simple,
-the Lakers are the defending champs until someone dethrones them. They're the #1 team in the league and their recent road losses are by no means an indictment on the fact they are still #1 right now. True Artest and others are struggling but the rest of the cast seems to be able to bear the burden so far. The one blight on their record is getting swept by Cleveland who seem to have their number this year.

-in spite of the Celtic struggles in jan, they are still 3rd in the league, 3rd people. They did not only lose KG, they lost Pierce, Rondo, House, Davis, Tony Allen and Rondo all at alternating times so going[b] 7-5[/b] in the month of january is to be expected and is a good record considering how handicapped they were. I'm not sure how this equates to "shitty"? 99% of teams in the nba would die to be in our position.

-As much as I'd like to say different, truth is Dallas is no different really from previous years. They have had good reg season records but always fall short in the playoffs and with practically the same line-up I'm not expecting a different result this year unless Dirk has found some jazz to use. They are not truly a legitimate threat to LA out west until the make a significant trade for a co-star beside Dirk.

-Chicago has a long long way to go. Rose is a star but we have seen earlier this season that without him the bulls are insignificant. So Bawo is right to fast and pray for Wade to come back home lol.

Lol @ the Laker jokes . . . every team has their rough stretch every season. Lakers have hit the road and now the wind is blowing and ____ are getting exposed we play next sunday I think, game should be a rocker.

@Bawo, 2 game winning streak is a start, now who do you think is going to AS game between Rondo and Rose? Chiogo I expect to see you beside your husband on the court on Valentines day.

See all the fun I missed lol . . .

I am more than satisfied with the outcome of the games. It's only fair the two best teams all year end up in the SB.

The downside is the Colts fans getting too swaggardly now    now who to win the SB? I'd say the Saints just cos they've never won one.

biina:
@J'Soul
Dont you think its time you revised your page-1 season predictions?

Lol . . . nah I like to look from time to time and laugh. Similar predictions will be back come next season God willing

Gamine!

TV01:
Hi debosky and thread,

Narrowing it down to the states relationship with the church, my position is that the state has no role. Seperation. Even where there stated aims are the same, the motivation and often the means will almost certainly be different.

May I ask what in your view are the main elements or who are the main players in the "world system"? As we both acknowledge it exists, there may ultimately be some convergence in our positions.

The church does not need the government to ensure probity within it. When the Lord says He is coming for a bride without spot, blemish or wrinkle and that he will build His church (His bride), I don't believe there was anything to indicate He would use the state to ensure her chastity or moral/spiritual purity.

Indeed, the government is unable to truly do so, as its idea of what probity is differs from the churchs and like I mentioned earlier, whilst the aims may seem identical, motivation and means will differ.


tbc

Interesting. I am very interested in seeing Debosky's response to some of the above.

---

TV01:
Travel section ke? Nairaland has one ! I need to get out the Religion board more. Geek me, lol! Please lemme know.

Lol . . . travel, food, education, movies, foreign affairs etc come out TV, come out . I will try to get to it soonest. You'll find a link in here when its served.

debosky:
I'm a bit skeptical of that assertion - it doesn't hold true at all times. When the Spirit of the anti-Christ takes over (Now that opens another debate - has it or hasn't it?) then the ultimate aim of the state will be to prevail against the church.

However, in many jurisdictions today, in certain areas - protection of the family, and improving social conditions of the down trodden - both central church goals are identical with the aims of the state. In that regard, the state even looks up to the church for leadership in these areas.

In the final analysis, it ends up being your perception of the role of the state. The state and the 'world system' are, in my understanding, not synonymous, but that is a different discourse altogether.

lol, another debate indeed.
However I firmly believe that even right now, the anti-christ is already hard at work, I think the scriptures teaches this, no? 1 John 4:3
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

If they are not of us, then they are firmly against us. There is truly no middle ground is there? And I don't think either its about "our perception" of the state role, the scriptures tell us they are against us. While the facade shows us otherwise (family protection, social issues etc), I think we must be wise to look past the physical.

And this doesn't mean we are suspicious and fending off with tenacity any kind of association with the state, not at all. But we recognize that our association should have boundaries and limits. Because the bible tells us the enemy is slick and crafty and will use whatever means to try to bring down the church of Christ.

It has been very beneficial reading both JeSoul and TV01's viewpoints - we enrich each other.
God Bless.

For real it has. Discussions like these be the only reason I bother to come to this section at all. Godbless brothers!

Mavenb0x:
Missing JeSoul. Where are you, my sister?

Oops. Sorry! Off-topic!!

Maven dearest. Too much of life to live my sister, just too much.

@Topic: It's not okay in God's eyes.
THE MESSAGE
[size=14pt]Luk 6:34 If you only give for what you hope to get out of it, do you think that's charity? The stingiest of pawnbrokers does that.[/size]

The counter arguement I've heard frequently and Debosky repeated here is that some say they file for the refunds and then turn around and give it back to the church. While I am skeptical of how realistic that practice is, it is not my place to declare all who do that are being dubious. Some may very well be doing that faithfully. Only God knows.

So I shunned the incredibly fantastic playoff football games yesterday to watch IB just to see what all the brouha is all about.

I'm too lazy to write a review now, but I agree mostly with Spiked. I rate 79%.

oh and GO AVATAR!  JK foximoto, resistance is futile.

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=173006.msg5369110#msg5369110 date=1264187765]My sides hurt. Tears are actually coming out of my eyes I have laughed so much. I swear I no longer know who's crazier between you and Spikie.[/quote]I concede and submit to Spike's superior genuis. I am just a lowly rookie learning under the auspices of a seasoned veteran, who saw it fit to grace the abode of mortals with her divine super powers. Max don't vex the gods with such questions

ps. did you notice the "fast acting" part of the bleach?

Doyin is still alive? I thought the pursuit of finance happyness had taken him to the land of no return.

Its tough to guage just how much time to boil sweet potatoes cos they vary in size and hence will require different times. You'll just have to pay attention to it. I usually do about 10-15 mins in boiling water.

As for frying, this is my prefered way of eating sweet potatoes. Try cutting into slices (not too thin), salt and then fry until it starts to darken and lose its characteristc pink color. Frying time will depend on how thin/thick your slices are, about 10-15mins. Absolutely delicious when paired with fried plantains. Goodluck!

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=173006.msg5368936#msg5368936 date=1264185747]ROTFLMAO!!!! Nice butt. Wrong colour tho. Bleach your skin much? If ain't blue I aint kissing it. [/quote]Spiked this is for you https://i8.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/07/5b/146b_1_sbl.JPG You're welcome.

JS you anthrocentric thing. If there are aliens in the universe they will look nothing like us, talk less of borrowing American Indian culture. Their building blocks will be differently constituted from ours.
No idea what movie to see again.

Which one be athrocentric again? lol. Why wouldn't they look like us? they can have their own sun, their own earth? why not? the imagination has no limit. [s]If I can dream it, then I can do it, if I just believe it,  there's nothing to it, I believe I can fly, I believ. . . [/s] 

  Saw Book of Eli last weekend. Was okay, good message, good acting, good theme. I'll advice to wait for DVD tho.

spikedcylinder:
https://images.paraorkut.com/img/pics/glitters/k/kiss_my_ass-7747.jpg

Oya Max, proceed

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=173006.msg5367628#msg5367628 date=1264172721]Oh my. .See scaredy cats.[/quote]You first

Saw AVATAR again. I wish I wish I wish they hadn't gotten so carried away with the awesome technology and visuals and not brush up on the story. Never saw Dances With Wolves so can't compare, and I think the similarity to Pocahontas is superficial. I like that the aliens are 'bushmen' from Spikie's village instead of the usual technologically advanced beings. But I can't stand the fact that, for aliens, they're incredibly human and prosaic. Why is everything about them recognisably human; their culture, their religion and philosophy? Even their wildllife are thinly disgused earth derivatives. Why couldn't Cameron have sat and thought up half a different ways in which these people could have been truly alien from us, things about their culture you can find nowhere on planet earth? Even the alien girls are Dolce and Gabbana models. If he'd done this he would have made something truly incredible.

Well who's to know what aliens may look like? for all we know there's another earth somewhere in another galaxy just like us. I liked that for once the aliens were similar to us, instead of the usual run of the mill version of big fat round heads and skinny out of proportion torso.

As for the Dolce and gabana model-like aliens well I'll leave that to Spiked to answer since they're from her village

rikkyjen:
And more love thrown at me!

JeSoul, you used to be a Colts hater! See humble pies ehhh? Fish or minced pie? Heheheheh

Ok, i shouldn't be gloating, i should be appreciating your appreciation, . . . . Thanks though

Talks in town says its d beginning of a dynasty just as Y'alls just ended!

Okay don't get carried away now, dynasty for whia? make una settle down. Lol @pie, I prefer fish. My current Colt thing is just a fling oh I really despise those Jets. Please you guys should crush them this weekend.

biina:
Its annoying to hear all these jets fan who feel they have arrived simply because they won in san diego.
- Anybody that watched the game would know that San diego only have themselves to blame. they played poorly coming off a bye, gifting the jets 10 penalties for 87yds, a lot of them coming on key down. That will not happen in Indy.
- Chargers had 13 drives and could only score 2 TD, missing 3 FGs. That will not happen in Indy
- All the cost to coast traveling and blitzing will catch up to the Jets defence on Sunday
- The will be facing a full strength Colts team that will include five starters (Charlie Johnson, garcon, Mathis, Session, powers) that missed the December game
- The jets couldnt stop the colts then, and wont do it on sunday. Prior to being pulled, Manning was 14/21 for 192yds while addai was averaging 6.7yd on 6 carries

I really hope we give them a serious blowout + shutout.

Thank you jare. They shouldn't have even been in the playoffs apart from the gift of a game that was handed to them.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=344420.msg5363973#msg5363973 date=1264120512]Jesoul haba don't get so sensitive now ahn ahn we no go celebrate winning again?? Josh Howard's contract is winding down this season! I hope we don't renew it and go for Rudy Gay. Kidd is dropping 9 dimes a game we can abuse him all we want but how many PG's right now are dishing more assists?? Nash, CP3, Deron Williams who else?? As for Dirk omo the guy don try!! His team-mates are the ones that have been letting him down even your K.G needed Paul Pierce and Ray Allen to get his ring he would not do better with that Mav team[/quote]Ohh I am thrilled, I must show this to all my peoples . . . this is the first time I have been refered to as sensitive in all my life  A-40 you have made my day! lol

  JK. I was smacking on Na2day jare , don't mind my swipes, you already know how I get down. Una no suppose celebrate that win oh . . . remember what is coming in 3 months? the playoffs? what preps has Cuban made to ensure its not another 1rder? I just dey talk practical.

Even with all the recent Celtic losses, they are still 3rd in the league. Abeg haters be gone    we shall be fine when all our players get back in a month or so. And we shall be praying no one else goes down.

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=385412.msg5362049#msg5362049 date=1264096381]In America, from the time you get up in the morning, till you go to sleep at night and wake back up the next day, all the in-between moments and aspects of living, sleeping and waking has prescription medicines designed to fill the gaps for you.

When you rise from bed there is a medicine to knock the drowsiness out and keep you alert. At bed time if you are too wound up and can't fall asleep there's a medicine for that. There's a time capsule designed to give your slumbering organs a kick start and bring you out of slumber so you don't oversleep. If you feel that's too much management, then there's a one pill wth three coatings, the one pill takes of sleep, wake and alert. The pharmaceutical companies want to look out for your well being and good health so instead of swallowing three tablets you take just one.

Inbetween, if you are a very energetic and hyperactive person then you suffer from an abnormal behavioral pattern and there is a medicine to calm you down. If you are withdrawn and laid back, you have an abnormal behavioral pattern and a medicine can correct that. If you blink too rapidly or you rock your legs while in a stationary sitting position, or you belch more than three times in an hour, or you fart often, or you pee more than two times within a 60minute window, or you have a heartburn, or you don't laugh to a funny humour, or you raise the tone of your voice in a hgh decibel, or you have too much sex, or you don't have enough sex. . . . . .and so on and so forth! In America all these are abnormal behavioral pattern and are symptoms of a health problem or condition.

This list is not including ailments like headache, toothache, arthritis, chronic respiratory and allergic pains, highblood pressure, diabetes, cancer. . .etc.

In this society, anything classified as health problem or condiition must be attended to by one of a doctor, a therapist, a psychologist or a social behavioral counselor. Sometimes a patient will need two or more of these people. Anyone attended to by these specialists is definite to get a prescription. Everytime a prescription is written a pharmacist must fill the order.

I'm going to pause here and let this soak in. The question we ought to ask is not why Healthcare bill should pass or fail but why the medical profession has hijacked from the ordinary citizen their individual right to liberty and life and how the Government is aiding that effort to make it illegal to be healthy and problem free! Health choice and decisions should be individual, no one shuld be compelled to choose between having a healthcare insurance or going to jail.

The second part of this will come late. Enjoy the read![/quote]Sometimes these drugs don't just come in capsules and tablets and liquigels and IVs, they're also in form of burgers, burritos, mega-sega sized coffee cups (that can feed 10 people) etc  . . .  I think it was Chris Rock joking once that they must put crack in Macdonalds burgers cos you can't help but go back.

  I believe it is a conspiracy pushed by drug companies to get as many as possible medicated, living pseudo lives - all aimed at getting more of the contents of their pockets. That rate at which medications are dished out these days is flat out scary. Even criminals are not guilty anymore, it was a hormonal or chemical imbalance that caused them to commit their crimes. It was the pill they took that did it.

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=384494.msg5364571#msg5364571 date=1264134727]There is a hidden message in this topic and I was hoping someone would decode it. . .but you all don't play hide and seek very well.

I was hoping with this topic that someone would connect the dots and ask why for any reason is marines force involved in disaster recovery in Haiti? But no one got it!

. . .the message is that[b] US is doing a mock exercise to rehearse the use of civil crisis and chaos to change regime in Iran[/b].[/quote]Negro, Negro, Negro, common now, this is too outlandish for even you

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=385150.msg5362731#msg5362731 date=1264103716]hahahaha, JeSoul, you are funny!!
My writing is adaptive. I'd work for Amy Goodman for $5/hr before I work for CNN for $200/hr. Thanks for the compliments all the same! lmao![/quote]lol CNN is not that bad I think. I like John King and Campbell Brown, very good and as close to objective you'll see on CNN.

Hey, guess what? Palin is the future, not Democrats, not Republicans. She has a down to earth pragmatic understanding of politics. She is shrewd and savvy! Look, Coakley made just as much blunders as Palin did but no one is dismissing Coakleys intelligence. You know why? Coakley remains in her envelope, commfortably! Palin does not. . .she is submissive to her husband as head of household and respective of family values but on the other hand is not intimidated by nature and the environment, a traditional protectorate of masculinity. Men venture into the woods, gun toting hunting for wild beasts. . .not women, particularly not one very beautiful and sexy as she is. That's hard for our ego to reconcile. We are unconsciously programmed to look at someone that gracefully beholding as a sex object, not a leadership model and so we barked and growled and bared our fangs to intimidate her back into her nest with the babies. Separate her blunders and the way she has wrongly be portrayed, take the gun, the knife and fishing rod from her and just listen to her views and passion, she sound like a reincarnate of Reagan.

Lol, don't let David and Ibime see this oh!
I've liked "Palin since she came on the scene, no question about that. Inspite of all these characteristics you list, I hope she doesn't run for president. I think what she is now is good, she's given a voice to a previously silent multitude of conservatives around the country.

We need to start demanding personal accountability and get away from party identity. Ideological pursuits tempered with civic duty is far more honorable than political popularity devoid of compassion. I never align myself with any party, I vote along issues but Palin has changed that. I follow where she goes.

This one na real love oh

On the issue of terrorists trial in the homeland, President Obama has a respect for the brotherhood of mankind at a cosmic level. He believes he has power of persuasion to bend adversaries and win them over to his side. This is possible but there are many factors that will contribute to such an outcome. Through persuasion and using symbolic and tangible tactics such as treating the terrorists humanely, he can create a relative dimension for the terrorists to view Bush as the bad cop and Obama as the good cop.

This is what I was saying before hie election, his kool-aid view of the world

Offenders bare their soul to the good cop but they respond antagonistically to the bad cop. It will not happen overnight but if he keeps the symbolic gestures and stays on message, barring any outside impact to derail the effort, I believe with time he will start to win hearts over and influence drop in terrorist acts. On the other hand, the Middle East is too volatile for the action of Obama alone to effect change. . .it has to be in concert with other nations supporting his moves. I am hopeful that if the next five successors in line after Obama's presidency will continue in his footsteps, then it might not be totally impossible to expect that even Osama Bin Laden himself might initiate negotiations for peace with America. However, this is wishful thinking! Soon as a Republican get in there all the idealism and brotherhood doctrine will be thrown out with the rug.

Oh dear, I could not disagree more. I don't think anything or anyone is going to assuage the zealots jihadists enough to make them soften their agenda of worldwide domination of islam. They have been fighting since Abrahimic times, now they've got the resources to spread the battleground and they'll still be fighting when Jesus comes back. Nothing anyone can do to change that, not even Obama And expecting long term, consistent, fervent help from the usually complacent Europeans is like waiting for rain in the Sahara desert.

Pro-current-healthcare-billers, can anyone briefly outline what problems exactly this bill is aimed at tackling?

---

montelik:
@ Jesoul. Since you are in Boston I have a question. Many have said that the health care bill presently in the senate is exactly like the Massachusetts plan instituted by then Gov Romney. I was wondering if you feel that it has helped contain health care costs and whether you would like to see something like it replicated on a national scale. There conflicting reports as some say it hasn't worked, others defend it as being reasonable.

Its so ironic that it was Mass that got the swing the political climate, we are ground zero for what can happen when things are not thought through before leaping over the cliff.

Many have said that the health care bill presently in the senate is exactly like the Massachusetts plan instituted by then Gov Romney

I dunno (along with the rest of the country) what's in the current bill so I cannot say how similar or disimilar they are.

I was wondering if you feel that it has helped contain health care costs and whether you would like to see something like it replicated on a national scale

There is a God is heaven, and in His great mercy He will not allow the Mass model to be replicated on a national scale lol.

Costs: I read just few days ago that premiums are slated to rise by 10-15% this year, as it has risen almost every year since the legislation was passed. Costs are anything but contained. It is not even affordable for many people but yet they have to enroll or else suffer the exorbitant tax penalties on their returns upwards of more than $1000 (I found that out very personally). And the ridiculous thing about that is you only need be covered (last time I checked) at least 15 days in the entire year. So for example I don't have insurance the entire year, but get it on Dec 1st and cancel it on the 20th, then I won't get fined on my tax returns. What is the point of that?

But the even more stoopid thing is most people who do not have insurance are those who cannot afford it - proceeding to then tax and penalize those people makes no sense to me.

I was signing up for a family member few months ago. The cheapest from the health connector (the official provider in mass) was $190/month for an individual, not family. Now that may seem somewhat reasonable, but wait for the catch, that did not include up to half of the basic services, did not include optometry visits, did not include dental, the amount for co-payments? don't even ask. And should you be unfortunate to have an ER visit, you might as well not be covered. The truth is if you don't get HI through your employer (and it has to be a big/good company at that), you cannot afford it out of pocket. You just can't. You can have that basic rubbish but its not really health insurance as it doesn't cover anything.

Coverage: Mass may boast >95% (best in the country) coverage, look past the smokescreen and see the mountain of debt piling up. The current system is not sustainable long term. Spending doubled from 2007 - 2008, and is expected to keep rising. Costs are now 85%, I repeat 85% higher than estimated. People may want to slam conservatives on not caring for their fellow man but you simply cannot add more people to a system and expect that system to function the same way.

   I truly appreciate those who say pretty much every developed nation has universal healthcare. But they don't consider other factors. UK has what 60million people? America has 300+million, you cannot take that system and juxtapose it on the US and expect that it'll work on a much larger scale. Canada has 30 million etc. Ghana can provide uninterrupted power for its 23 million people, I bet if they were the size of Nigeria's 150+ mill they couldn't.

  Healthcare works in those countries cos most people are doing their part, most people are contributing and the few that need help can be given it without issue. They don't have 30 million illegal residents who don't pay their part putting strain on their ERs and costing the taxpayers. America is different, too many people are looking for handouts, you want to eat from a pie you didn't help to bake. And too many people with unhealthy lifestyles they are warned about but yet they maintain it all their lives and then when they hit 60 and the liver fails from alcoholism, cancer sets in from smoking, diabetes from obesity, they expect the taxpayers to bail them out?

And then you have massive insurance/drug companies who have a stronghold on the system, imposing their outrageous prices on a market that has no choice but to patronize them. Put all the these together and you have a mess.

Anyways, I found this short article for you from the Boston globe democrat - if that liberal newspaper can put this out, then the problem is serious. http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/03/02/mass_healthcare_reform_is_failing_us/
and also
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/Universal_coverage_First_look_at_the_disaster_in_Massachusetts_011109.html

Montelik, I'll be back to answer ur Q soon.

Prez,
you're right in that there is no such thing as a "perfect bill" and it freqeuntly takes several amendments to get it as close to right as possible. I will take an imperfect bill that attempts to address the current problems - not drastically change what already works. What Pelosi and her cohorts have given us so far does not appear to have ben borne out of any kind of critical thinking. Heck what problems exactly is this current version of the bill aimed at addressing? your guess is as good as mine. Yet we should vote for it? take their word for it?

bawomolo:
this is not funny. after working for months on the health care bill then this happens.

oh boy, back to the drawing boards.

the "no to socialist healthcare" nuts are not going to compromise anything. They were still grumbling even after obama dropped the public option. What else can be realistic or sensible?

They've worked for "months" with nothing to show for it. I ask you the same Q I just asked Prez, what exactly is in this current healthcare bill? does any citizen know? do the democrats even know? what problems does it address? who does it serve?

When you and I can easily answer that question, then it'll qualify as a realistic, reasonable bill that people can trust.