₦airaland Forum

Uche2nna:
Obama should also learn one thing, dont make promises U cant keep He promised that he will make the proceedings following health care reforms public on C-span. That is really hurting him now

Don't 99% of politicians do this? useless bunch they all are.

I'm also waiting for the website where we can track all the stimulus bill spending

[quote author=pres-elect link=topic=382304.msg5362125#msg5362125 date=1264097216]O, Jesoul you are so naive . . . . . did you not realise what happened on tuesday? you were only following the elections? you should have followed the stock market instead. even before the polls closed, the health insurance companies had a super spike in stock. they have seen that the healthcare bill is dead for the next 50-100yrs. the money has already started to roll in.[/quote]Allow me a moments fantasy of a Utopian America now     Whether the Dems win or the Reps win, nothing ever truly changes does it? You think I get any joy from knowing the drug companies are cashing in? I work in the drug industry, everyday I see it, I already how what evil entities they are.

knowing that 44,000 americans die yearly b/c they dont have health insurance, dont you think u played a role therein, when some creation dies due to lack of insurance? not to make u feel guilty, Christ has already taken care of your guilt/sins, but i thot u may show some concern. this sint about obama, or the democrats, or even the republicans. this is about some big guns in the insurance industry who have fought really hard, and won. they will continue to make money. it is a sad day for me.

I can count at least 5 instances dating back to last year where I have cried and cried that I want healthcare reform, I dunno how clearly I can say this. Last year my mum fell ill and I couldn't simply take her to the ER cos she wasn't covered at the time, it is only by the grace of God she got better. Knowing what I know do you really think I would be so callous as to turn a blind eye and deaf ear to the plight of those lacking? especially when I was in such a position myself few years ago?

 Yet I refuse, repeat, refuse to vote and cast my lot in support of a confused, jumbled mess of a bill, where even the sellers do not even know what's in it. I refuse with unwavering determination to jump on a supposed merciful and moral bandwagon where the final destination is not known by even the driver. I hope this clears up my position on the matter. I could care less for republican vs democrat - I simply ask for common sense from our leadership.

  Obama and co, give the American people a sensible, detailed, realistic well thought out plan and we will give you our unflinching support.

naijaway:
Jesoul i respect your view and u seem cool too. but I still have my differences with your view. Healthcare is not totally free or supposed to be totally free but cost containment is actually needed if america needs cash. Healthcare is always a mess and people are still sure to wait in line and is bad even now but overall cost is to be contained. Big players in europe have it, canada, australia, etc so why is it zapping america like is a defence bill? At least defense, it is understandable for maintaining at the top. Obama should not run it down the public as he had planned to but regardless of when they decide or what party decides it is bound to be many pages and many people will still say it is too long to understand. I believe they will figure out a better strategy of presentation on healthcare and other fronts.

Well for the sake of the people I hope that they do. Cos what they just attempted to do was a big fat ghetto mess from the moment they started.

The truth is that repubicans are eyeing 2012 with high hopes and it began since obama won the election, so they will many of the times be a hinderance and that's the problem. Is not like they have an honest criticism but they have decided to be difficult regardless of topic. Well, I forsee obama and his team defying the odds and i also forsee history favoring him like i said earlier.

100% agreed. Which is why I will remain an independent for life and refuse to pledge blind allegiance to parties who when it gets down to it do not care about the people, just their pockets. I know many Reps will not agree with Obama/dems no matter what he does.

Good to know you are happy with both of your citizenships, same here but don't fall for intentions without valid personal assessments. I reside in DC. Many of those critizing and fiercely fighting the bills have similar characteristics to bills of desegregation.

Lol, I'm not so sure about that. I think we try to paint race into issues where its just not there. But this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

naijaway:
@jesoul and montelik, am not saying Obama has all the answers but the guy and his party sure have a brighter plan.

Well if they indeed have a brighter plan we sure ain't seeing it. The whole healthcare fiasco has been characterized by confusion.

Healthcare needs a thoughtful and careful approach but the reality is that many people against it are just too scared of even thinking outside the norm. The stuff is now diluted and might be more diluted because of short sightedness. Is like when minorities were not sharing the same restrooms, voting rights, restaurants and opportunities as whites, not because the whites were devils but because they couldn't envision outside the norm but it took lydon johnson to make it happen. It is somewhat the same thing here.

Comparing healthcare to civil rights is a bit of a stretch don't you think? Its not that people are afraid, they just don't understand what exactly is in the jumbled-up-which-version-are-they-on-now? bill. And when a top ranking dem member of congress comes out and brazenly and shamelessly declares how can we the populace expect them to read a 1200 page bill? what arrogance. So he himself does not even know what is in the bill he is selling to us? why should we buy it? we have "universal healthcare" in massachusetts, and it is a mess so we know first hand what can happen if things aren't planned well before jumping headfirst into it.

The whole point is that the lady did not campaign hard enough and in a bigger picture democrats have been slipping on many fronts due to comfort of being the majority and even the white house has been slipping on security eg white house crashers, mutallab etc. They are going to improve on this and nobody is worshipping obama even though am proud of him.

I actually agree Coakley got cocky and wasn't campagning until the last few weeks. But like Negro said on the other thread, the buck stops with Obama - the head of the democratic party.

He still got his head on his shoulders. Jesoul i hope you are part of the majority and have lots of opportunities because if you are not and keep saying WE as if , , i must remind you that you are on a long tin.

Lol, na wa oh. Anytime I dare to associate myself with "the american people" I get scolded  oga Naija, scroll up and see my ballot. I am very much Nigerian, I am also very much American and very proud of being both.

The truth is that many american people underestimate china's development except those who cared to research very well. The gap is closing fast. If the democrats can control healthcare spending, they can then focus on other things because china will still need to revisit healthcare too. I don't feel like explaining and breaking suffs down from my observations and research but i think u guys should look at the big picture. I still stick to my word tho, history will favor obama on many fronts and this is just the beginning. It is not worship or lust, it is calling a spade a spade. Mind you, people luv to hate whenever they can or opportuned to.

A very very big IF. The govt scarcely does a good job "controlling costs" of many fronts and healthcare will be no different.

I apologize for saying you worship Obama, I didn't mean any offense my brother. I certainly don't hate the guy, its his followers that freqeuntly refuse to think beyond anything he proposes and proceed to demonize anyone that does not join the bandwagon that I mostly have beef with. History might indeed end up on Obama's side, we won't know for a very long time. And since none of us have foresight, we can only go on what we see now, abi?

Phew, I'm glad people agree and it wasn't my imagination lol.

montelik:
Mykelti Williamson as CTU director is not a good fit, besides the guys overacting and the fact that he just doesn't seem to fit the role, one things really grates me. He seems to have a constant hunch when he standing or walking, it can be really hard not to get distracted by it. Then there is his "high school" bounce. I am sure some of us remember when we were young there was an exaggerated way of walking by swinging your shoulders or an exaggerated limp or shoulder lean called "bouncing"  . Well he seems to have one to go along with his hunch factor. All this stuff just distracts me from his actual role. 

Thank you oh! I wasn't going to mention it earlier in case it was just me being picky.

teeluv:
about been too early to tell who the insider is im sure you know that 24 always has a twist to it. and men renee is bad backside. female jack bauer.

I hope its Hastings and I hope he gets killed off soon 

Oga Negro na you write this one yourself? I for think say na one of them political analysts on CNN 

Very good write up. Several points I'd like to touch on:
[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=385150.msg5359072#msg5359072 date=1264058598]. . .a coalition movement operating at the grassroot of the society has immense power and influence to restore power to the people and reform Government.

This is what President Barack Obama once said in a radio interview years ago when he was a community organizer.[/quote]Oh the irony.

"We The People". . .are dissafected with Washington and with situations in the economy. The repeated claim that it was an inherited problem is a lazy and reckless response, "The Buck Stops with The President", not with the Ex-President (now private citizen) George Bush.

Jehovah bless you  After the first couple times he said it, it was okay and true, but now it is indeed a "reckless" response . . . as if every incoming president did not inherit a mess from his predecessor. Roll up your sleeves and stop whinning.

2010 is an election year. So far under his 12months old tenure the party has not had any electoral victory- four losses in four elections! 4 out of 4 times now, a 100% trend, the dissafection with Washington has translated into losses at the polls. A clear and distinct attribute of a grassroot organizing commandeering the political future. That future is a short one; only 9 months away!

Here I was thinking that Hillary and Palin are divisive, polarizing figures that invoke extreme emotions from the populace . . . it would appear Obama and his policies are the most polarizing of them all.

The President, in order to be effective, need a strongly bipartisan team of loyalists that support his programms and policies. They do not necessarily have to support his politics!

A very tall order. I myself am hoping for such but the right has been so viciously attacked, demonized and alientated by Obama's people that it'll be hard to enlist their help. They may be too busy gloating over the tide turning.

So what can the President do to change the dissafection against Washington, win the 2010 midterms, keep his congressional majority and accomplish the goals he has set? Right now its just one thing.

If he wasn't the President and The Tea Party rallied in Chicago, I wouldn't be surprised that Mr Obama would be one of the organizers. . .he speaks their language for change, for independence and for accountability. So why does he find it hard to connect and align them to his leadership?

Mr President, The White House need a communication script for The Tea Party. . . no more mockery and disparaging cartoons to discredit their values and agenda. As you have seen,. . . . they have power of influence to tranform Washington.

Gbam.
  And tell him to reign in the attack dogs from the white house who ridicule anything right or conservative at every opportunity. I wish this had come sooner, perhaps things wouldn't be as far gone as it is now. I wanted to like him so bad when he first came out and after he won, but he has let his stewards run amok and drive a deep wedge between himself and independents.

  Another thing I cannot understand is why oh why he would let all these terrorists be tried in civilian courts, giving them lawyers paid for by the american people. Is that not madness? What quicker, easier way to incite anger and fury in the public? I don't get it.

TV, I think a thread for you is a-coming somewhere in the Travel section, I will keep ya posted

TV and Debosky, very good convo guys. I've picked up a thing or two.

These quotes TV I found most worthy of being highlighted:

TV01:
The states aim is not accountability, its control, or submission. Other than the silver, whats in view here to benefit the church? But the prid pro quo is too great and spiritually dangerous.

The Church in its natural spirit-led state is a threat to the state. I spoke about themes earlier - or maybe it was another thread !

---

The church/state interplay is a resonating scrpitural theme. And the state has always persecuted the true church

I guess when it comes down to the nitty gritty state involvement really isn't about just accountability or oversight, we christians know who really runs the state and not to acknowledge that their ultimate aim is to prevail against the church would be being spiritually shortsighted. You're right TV.

Debosky, you make very very good points. I am however afraid you haven't truly attacked it from the spiritual angle as TV hinted in his last post.

naliakar:
WELL: After the shock of the last few days. I am reassured of one thing: Massachusetts did not--after all--turn to Red from blue. Just Brown and I can live with that in Cambridge.

Naliakar you had me worried for a bit, I thought you had gone underground in the republic of cambridge I still cannot believe massachusetts just did this, massachusetts? and I heard Brown won kennedys hometown 2-1 that tells me people really are mad.

montelik:
Thinking like yours is the reason why things look so bleak for Obama and Dems. Your type of thinking is the surest way for them to continue to fail and lose. So Obama is the only one with the answers and anyone who disagrees is doing so out hatred, for political gain or racism. Wow. Okay just one thing. You say Obama doesn't want China to overtake the U.S. But then explain the rational behind the massive deficits and debts he is constantly compiling in just one year. This debts are being financed by guess who? China. This seems like a totally sound way to ensure the U.S surpasses China.I mean by increasing the their level indebtedness to China, Obama is surely ensuring China will not pass the U.S in his tenure. /Sarc   
Fact is Obama doesn't have all the answer and should start listening to other people not ignoring them. This is what made Clinton a success.

May the good Lord, full of mercy and grace never cease to bless you for this answer  Some people just don't get it and cannot see past the floor since their faces are still buried in it worshipping at the Obama altar as if he can do no wrong and his every move is perfect. It is this kind of thinking that turns me so off from Obama and his fanatics even though he himself seems to be a decent guy.

@ Naijaway,
  Americans are suddenly ignorant because they disagree with the president on Healthcare . . . weren't they also ignorant when they voted the same guy in? People do want health reform - I want health reform. I have family members w/o healthcare now so this is more than just politics for me. What people don't want is 10 versions of a very confused jumbled bill, a bill which the same people trying to pass it have NOT read themselves. Why should the american people trust it? do you think we're all stoopid? or that we all worship every word and move of Obama along with obamabots?

  and nobody is saying Republicans have the answer, no. They themselves are hugely responsible for the debt we're raking up in the wars. What the people want is simplicity, give us a bill we can understand and we will support it 100%.

bawomolo:
smh, i'm not laughing

common Bawo, admit its funny, "a collective peeing of pants" . . . I laugh everytime. Dems thought they were going to laugh all the way to the ballot, until a lowly truck driver from wrentham threw a wrench in the political machine and did the impossible even I didn't dare think 2 weeks ago.

I am happy because this brings back balance to mass and the senate. I've never liked one party rule be it local or national. Its best when we can find a way to collab and compromise instead of only one viewpoint prevailing.

Uche2nna:
Now the obvious question now is which way forward for the democrats?

Unless they can persuade moderate republicans like Olympia Snow, the health care bill is as good as dead in the Senate. And if that happens, that means a lot of political capital down the drain. Something has to give ??

Isn't that what they've been trying to do the past few months?

The healthcare bill is already dead. It was killed months ago when all kinds of scary, disturbing details and rumors about its content hit the streets and people began storming townhalls in anger.

  They should scrap this bill entirely, people do not understand it and therefore do not trust it and will hold their congressmen and women at gunvote point and demand they don't vote for it or else risk being kicked out in November. Democrats should try again before Obama's term is up in 2012 (assuming they still have the majority then) and next time be preemptive in getting their message out and not let 10 versions of a bill float around and confuse the entire nation, and especially not have rouge senators shamelessly saying how do we expect them to read the 1200 page bill.

  And should the republicans come back into power in November, I would hope they would show the same fervor in trying to fix healthcare that they showed in trying to stop the Dems this time.

rikkyjen:
I Love you too!

Lol, I was wondering when the Rikkygenerator would show up True talk. I would wear Colt blue 100 times over before purple Viking or green Jet. At least the Colts deserve it and have a stand up guy at the helm.

bawomolo:
age is nothing but a number, championships age well like wine

I guess that is the wine you have been sipping all this while    better fast at least twice a week for the gods to bring Wade back home cos it'll take more than just Rose to convince him.

mavericks fan are as delusional as kings fans of about 7 years ago. They actually think they are some storied franchise.

abeg talk am jare. I was going to come here and congratulate them on a solid win and stopping their losing streak only to see some trash talking going on because they beat a wounded giant, world don spoil finish 

next we'll have GS and Clippers fans swaggering all over this thread 

^^ lol a whooping? I checked the stats, Celtics were up by double digits at half time - they gave the game away, that hardly constitutes a whopping. Now what the Lakers did to ya'll recently now that's a bare butt, lay down whooping Mavs fans running their spaces after just one win, what is this world coming to? Una suppose they think and strategize how to trade for another superstar, Dirk can only take you so far. Howard is busy with his weed, and kidd can barely keep up with younger point guards. Trade for a superstar or else you'll have the same result as the past 7-8 years.

bawomolo:
jealous jealous, na him dey worry you

https://blogs.trb.com/sports/hawl-in/trophies_050217.jpg


derrick rose and dwayne wade would bring more championships to together.

LOL Bawo how old is that picture?

Even me I still can't believe it, massachusetts really did this? for once I am proud of my state for choosing to make a statement. I am glad I was wrong.

Scott Brown best believe I will keep my eyes on every vote he casts in DC, he must not make me ashamed to show this picture to my future children my very own ballot from yesterday.

chiogo:
lol JeSoul 

Tell 'em  . . . . but I do think we need younger players, this is getting out of hand. Lester was cut off, imagine!! And the Geriatric ones remain excluding KG of course. And why does Bill Walker never get any play time? Doc is getting on my nerves. 

Bill Walker has promise, but I don't think he's ready to be a force off the bench. It's our starters (and sheed and TA and House and Bigbaby) - so i guess its our entire team! lol that are beat up and tired from injuries - they need a month off lol. Nah but seriously, I said at season's begining I could care less about the Reg season, if they like they can be the 2nd, 3rd seed, me I no care. As long as the squad is healthy come playoffs, I believe we can beat anybody.

chiogo:
Whaaaaaaaaaat? The Mavericks won?? Chai
Thank God I didn't watch it, nonsense.

I didn't watch until the 4th quarter - was busy soaking in every nanosecond of the 2hr season premiere of 24 Jack Bauer rocks! . . .

uhm back to topic . . .
you people should leave our old men for us. They will conserve their fire and unleash it come playoffs. Haters be gone

platinumnk:
So what about the verse where it says "Give to Ceasor what belongs to Ceasor" ?

Simply means to pay your taxes - to the government - look it up, Jesus was very clear on that. It wasn't "pay to the church". We don't "pay" anything to God (as if we are in possession of anything He needs), which is why I highly dislike the common phrase of "paying of tithes". We give as a form of worship to God as He has blessed us and as we decide in our hearts - be it $10 for a whole year or $1000000.

platinumnk:
but Usually when I give to SA I dont think about it being dediicated to God , Im just like I dont wanna waste it.

Lol, I think we all do .

Note: I'm absolutely NOT saying there's anything wrong in donating to the SA and then itemizing on your tax returns - absolutely nothing wrong with that. I was just trying to seperate the two saying its not really giving if you're expecting something in return.

platinumnk:
i know, a friend wa telling me there was this money he was saving to give to the church (tithes I guess) but he felt led to give it to a family and he didnt know why, and it turns out it was the exact amount the family was praying for!

So Im confused, did he do wrong because he didnt pay his tithe , or does it really matter that you are giving to a church?

I love this! your friend did exactly right!

This is what I meant by that system being legalistic, it does not allow for the move of the Holy spirit to lead and direct us on how to give. Your friend is 100% right because he was led by the spirit - and that is never wrong. If one chooses to tithe, give offerings etc nowhere are we told it is to be exclusively given to only the church, nowhere in the bible.

We are to give freely and as God leads us - sometimes it'll be to a church, sometimes a friend, sometimes a local charity etc. Christians have unwittingly boxed themselves into this slavish, cold system of churning out 10% every week. I daresay this is not what the bible teaches.

platinumnk:
Well chuch is church and the way I lookat Salvation Army is that someone needs it way more than me, and why be wasteful throwing it away?

Why pile up landfills when u can donate your old doors to Habitat for Humanity?
Or burn your old blankets when the homeless would like them?

davidylan:
I cant believe it . . . i'm rubbing my eyes.
Not really IMO. If i have 5 shirts i dont need, it would be better to give it to the homeless man down the street than throw it away.

No no, you're both diverting. No one is saying throw away your clothes or burn your old blankets instead of donating it.


 My question is this:
    is all our giving motivated by Christ? then you're giving to God be it the church or the SA.

   Now, your giving can also be motivated by Christ - i.e. giving to the SA etc but you're not really giving because you're expecting and getting something in return. I just want to make that distinction.

platinumnk:
Well my pastor broke it down like this: if u earn 10,000 a year, then u tithe 10% which is 1,000

20k - 2k
30k= 3k

and so on-
He said u can pay the whole thing and not be worried about paying tithe for the rest of the year, but I break mine up, like 4 times a year.

hmmm. . . I don't wanna sound brash, but this method of giving sounds way too legalistic. Where's the room for the holy spirit to either lead you to give more or even less? Its not about how much you give, but the heart with which you give it and when it becomes a rigid system like you mention above it defeats the purpose. But hey do what you will sister.

davidylan:
Giving to God is not the same as giving to charity.

You sure?

If our giving is motivated by Christ, then regardless of whether its the local church or the local Salvation army - you're still giving to God.
   
    But if our giving is motivated by getting some cheddar back from Uncle Sam then I guess we shouldn't be calling it "giving". But I think you and Debosky are 100% right that it comes down to motive I guess . . . and only God can truly assess that.

slap1:
I'm an Anglican and I often have problems with my father because I refused to be confirmed as an Anglican in the church. My reason for refusing is that the pastor said I should bring 20 litres of kerosine (N120 at that time), a crate of egg, some cups of egusi, etc. The second time (in a different Anglican church) I attended the classes till few weeks b/4 the confirmation day when the pastor said we should bring N5,000, over one hundred of us. I withdrew, not because the money was absent but because my mind did not welcome such act. Some of passed through exams and failed, but the pastor told them that the money will get them confirmed, even if they have not attended the class for once. I was shocked. I vowed not to do that in my life. My dad thinks I'm crazy. Now, is this confirmation worth anything if it can just be bought like that?

Wow. I thought it was only pentecostals who were fleecing people.

Slap, you are 1000% right. Please do not waste any time or money going to this "pastor" . . . crate of egg, cups of egusi what in the world

debosky:
My personal view is that whatever you get back as a tax return by virtue of your giving, GIVE IT AGAIN and then claim the return and continue the cycle.

I know some people who do this and feel fine with it. I used that justification for about 1 hr before deciding it was not for me. I want to give and forget about it. But this is me, everyone should go with their own conviction.

I part run an org at my college, we can get free money from the school to put on our shows and events, but there's red tape, procedures, limitations etc. After doing it once, we shoved it aside and went back to doing car washes to raise money. Sometimes getting a free check from the govt/school is not worth it and I'm so glad that God is not interested in how much money we can gather for Him.

This talk of being 'subject' to the law is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned - in order to avoid abuse, it is very right to be subject to financial regulation. We have enough people destroying the image of the Church by their wrongdoings that is imperative to have this oversight.

As long as you are on this earth, you will be subject to earthly authority in some shape or form. We can't say because we are 'free' we'll go build a noisy church in a quiet residential area or erect a building in the middle of the freeway.

We must also remember what 'absolute' power did to the Catholic church in the past - their nearly total control of land, money and power led to absolute corruption.

We all acknowledge corruption, it is present from the church to the state house. But if what TV says about this commission possibly influencing sermon content - then it is a big problem and the church is not obligated to follow on man made laws that deviate from the scriptural teachings or the leanings of the holy spirit. We know there are bad eggs who will cheat, but should that influence us away from what we know is right? all in a bid to "submit to earthly authority"?

TV01:
Hallelujah!

Praise the Lord! 

I have longed for us to discuss more expansively and take on the whole of Christian giving, use of money, examples in the scriptural narrative, meaning to the church as a body and as the bride. How, why, what for, when, to whom. The question posed here is but one of the many sub-theme's that should have emanated from that convo, but we simply never got there - or we just hindered from doing so. Whenever there's a crime, the police always look for the money trail. Sometimes, if you follow the money trail, you'll discover the crime.

"Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasars"
I am not sure of the details of what obtains in the US, but let me touch on what I am familiar with here in the UK. For a Church to be in a position to claim tax back on charitable giving, they have to "register" as a charity. This leads to what any "smart" thinking person would welcome which is tax relief. Makes sense right? No, because it also brings you under the aegis of the charities commission - the state regulator of charities - and you will recieve your tax refunds on "charitable donations", but you become yoked to the state. Subject to its laws. tbc.

TV01:
contd.

Taxes are levied by the state  - all things being equal - to develop and maintain infrastructure for the good of all. Church goers, Christians, use whatever label you will, utilise the infrastucture and services provided like everyone else. Why would we (the church) claim tax refunds? As I pointed, out tax refunds given by the state are granted in return for control. The Church cannot serve two masters or even afford to be unequally yoked.

Let me make my point with a case known to all of us KICC was involved in a huge imbroglio with the state here about use of its funds. ^{Now please, let me make this clear; I do not discuss, people, personalities, denominations or sects per se. Doctine yes, policy sure, my walk absolutely. This is not an opinion on the church or their leader.} This is merely to illustrate my position.

So my point is that the reason the state could intervene and rule was because of what[b] I see as a adulterous monetary relationship[/b]. Like someone said, "he'd rather give cash". If we as say a NL church meet and pool whatever amount of our post tax income and do whatever with it. No one govermental, corporate, legal or whatever has the right to interfere or rule over what we do. Led by the Holy Spirit only. Subject to one Lord only. tbc.

TV01:
I do know that in the US, some churches are incorporated as companies. Same difference. You become a legal entity, subject to the state and its laws. I'm sure the US equivalent of being a charity brings its own yoke.

I understand the charity commission influence is so pervasive here in the UK as to even influence sermon content. But be that the case or not, the relationship IMO is already a spiritually adulterous one. The Church of Christ is a bride betrothed to the one.

So while it looks smart, may even appear wise. I see it as utterly wrong. The church must remain free and subject only to her Beloved. Sorry if I'm waxing a lil' lyrical, blame that SOS thread  !

God bless
TV

Lol at the SOS reference . . . glad it is still resonating 

  Thank you for the above breakdown. I've heard about the UK charities commission but never this clearly and based on that I think I would agree whole heartedly that this is not the ideal situation for the church of Christ to be in. I bolded some parts of your post, and the most disturbing in bold red . . . really? they have/can influence sermon content? really?

  While this body serves to keep religious bodies/charities accountable - and that is a good thing, but from a spiritual perspective - from a Holy Spirit perspective, I agree with you it amounts to being unequally yoked. But realistically, how many churches would rather be free and independent and not seek extra finances by getting taxes back?

Here there are certain things churches are not allowed to do in order to retain their "tax exempt" status - ranges from politics to social issues. Should a church rather pay taxes and function however they please or work within the limitations imposed on it by the govt? Is it wrong for a church to want to function in a manner that is harmonious with the state?


ps. I owe you some pix, lemme think up an expedient solution.

davidylan:
At my church most give through envelopes where the church then sends you a reciept for your "tithe" and "offering". I prefer to give cash . . . as far as i'm concerned . . . tithes and offerings are what you shld be joyful to part with for the sake of the kingdom. Not using the Lord as an avenue to scam the government.

I think this is how majority of churches in the US function now. Also you'll be hard pressed to find a church that doesn't have some kind of "financial" program . . . at mine they call it "Financial Peace University"

Ndipe:
Man, if I donate old clothes to goodwill or salvation army, you better believe that I will itemize it. I have learnt a lesson the hard way, some of the stuff, they turn around and sell it and the money goes into the organization. So, it's not as if most of these clothes will be handed to recipients for free. Maybe in some cases, but I will still itemize.

This is a double egded sword. Technically if you're giving it away, our concern shouldn't be what they do with it afterwards should it? I don't see how it can be termed "charitable giving" if you're refunded for your donation.

D-Day is here.

I heard an analyst say if Brown wins, there will be a collective peeing of pants by democrats around the country

Does anyone else think Brian Hastings is trying too hard? his acting seems a little forced or maybe its just me. That fold on his forehead is really starting to annoy me.

I like the way they've turned Renee into Jack a badaxx, ruthless chick with a death wish lol.

Worried ke? he lost only the 1st and proceeded to handle his bizniz. The enemies of FedEx progress will not succeed. No weapon fashioned against the king shall prosper. Let the people say AMEN!

biina:
Yes!!!!!!! come to papa! and dont worry, your luck will change with us
Miami, here we come!

Lol what does papa have to offer? anything less than a SB ring will not do.

If the Saints don't get in then god forbid the Jets or Vikes get it. I'll root for the Colts all year long than those two.