₦airaland Forum

Finally . . .

On the discussion on Eden. Maven, that is lot to chew and I understand No2A's concerns. When we begin to wade in the waters of speculation and "my own understanding" its flirting with . . .  But I am glad you have taken extra effort to stress that it is your own view and understanding. Nevertheless, pondering on these things can be of tremendous benefit and to that, I will toast

  I'm not even sure I have much to take you to charge on, its an interesting piece that I will need to sit with and ponder (my MO) . . . I have ur #, we'll be talking about this soon 

  I did want to touch on something you mentioned though - the issue of allegorical vs historical. This issue stretches far beyond just the garden of eden into Noah's ark, the crossing of the Red Sea, Jonah and the whale etc . . . in all our analyses, how do make distinctions and to what degree do we regard a biblical narrative to be A. or H.?

^^ Quotes from the link:

James Cameron's completely immersive spectacle "Avatar" may have been a little too real for some fans who say they have experienced depression and suicidal thoughts after seeing the film because they long to enjoy the beauty of the alien world Pandora.

"Ever since I went to see 'Avatar' I have been depressed. Watching the wonderful world of Pandora and all the Na'vi made me want to be one of them. I can't stop thinking about all the things that happened in the film and all of the tears and shivers I got from it," Mike posted. "I even contemplate suicide thinking that if I do it I will be rebirthed in a world similar to Pandora and the everything is the same as in 'Avatar.' "
. . .

"When I woke up this morning after watching Avatar for the first time yesterday, the world seemed ,  gray. It was like my whole life, everything I've done and worked for, lost its meaning," Hill wrote on the forum. "It just seems so ,  meaningless. I still don't really see any reason to keep ,  doing things at all. I live in a dying world." . . .

"One can say my depression was twofold: I was depressed because I really wanted to live in Pandora, which seemed like such a perfect place, but I was also depressed and disgusted with the sight of our world, what we have done to Earth. I so much wanted to escape reality," Hill said. . . .

"After discussing on the forums for a while now, my depression is beginning to fade away. Having taken a part in many discussions concerning all this has really, really helped me," Hill said. "Before, I had lost the reason to keep on living -- but now it feels like these feelings are gradually being replaced with others."

*where's the icon for rolling on the floor in uncontrolable laughter* oh yes there it is . . .
  www.nairaland.com/attachments/180447_ROTFLMAO_gif3d0c775232c7f27cf80592785b9635b6 www.nairaland.com/attachments/180447_ROTFLMAO_gif3d0c775232c7f27cf80592785b9635b6 www.nairaland.com/attachments/180447_ROTFLMAO_gif3d0c775232c7f27cf80592785b9635b6 www.nairaland.com/attachments/180447_ROTFLMAO_gif3d0c775232c7f27cf80592785b9635b6 www.nairaland.com/attachments/180447_ROTFLMAO_gif3d0c775232c7f27cf80592785b9635b6 www.nairaland.com/attachments/180447_ROTFLMAO_gif3d0c775232c7f27cf80592785b9635b6 www.nairaland.com/attachments/180447_ROTFLMAO_gif3d0c775232c7f27cf80592785b9635b6

kai oyinbo    these people have serious mental problems.

Mavenb0x:
@JeSoul: *sigh* Sorry about that, sister. You know what? Everytime I see your posts I remember to keep my posts impactful and pithy. It's just that I hardly have time to organize my thoughts nowadays, so I write as my thoughts form in my head. You just gave me a reminder again: stick to the main topic! Yes ma'am

Oh no you gat it wrong. Some thoughts require extensive descriptions and analysis - which is the case with most of your posts - and I ain't smacking on that at all! lol. I just have limited disposable e-time and my [i]attention span [/i]is like that of a restless wanderer lol
 
  But please, don't worry about length, I have no issues reading long as it is a good piece and this is! trust me, I cannot wait to dive into it and put myself in your spiritual shoes on this eden matter. Cheers! 

^^Morph you've said it all.

It's hard to take Mpele and RSA seriously. Scarcely have I read a post from either of them that is not vitriolic in nature towards any and all things Nigerian, while failing to look in the mirror and apply those judgemental standards to themselves.

but anyways,

Joe, great write-up. I was cheering you on until I came to the secong group and felt the whip come out lol. It's so much more fun when someone else is being chastised when you yourself committed the same sins. I think the AA's are by far the ones who feel with unbelievable arrogance, a sense of entitlement. When the supposedly intelligent ones like Al Sharpton are still crying for reparations, their 40 acres and a mule, what can we expect from the rest of the population?

Nevertheless, I love my AA's. They have some great qualities about them still.

^Montelik, Negro bleeds black almost everything is about race


Reid's choice of words was obviously very very poor and unfortunately touched on a very sensitive issue, esp within the black community. However, I don't think that should be a final indictment that he is a racist. We've all at one point used unfortnate words in regards to another race, if we'll be honest about it.

The problem for the democrats now is that to defend him (even though it is the proper thing to do), is to be hypocritic. These same benefits-of-doubt and "look at his entire career" were not extended when the offenders where Republican. AA's have already shown that they are very unforgiving when it comes to perceived instances of racism.

I've been waiting on Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to whip up one of their usual protests in Brooklyn or Harlem. But I won't hold my breath, the offender is a democrat and will get a free pass.

Lol . . . haha Albino Craig

Oyb, that does sound similar. Interesting. There's an immediate divergence though when it comes to the upload, memories part. I guess there isn't a monopoly on the concept of using 'surrogates' to live out ones life, it must be a popular thought.

H2O2:
Free our Artest. He's been a model citizen for us thus far. The zen master doing what he does best - He has managed to keep the toxicity in Artest at bay. His presence for us on defense is immense. We can get much better production from him offensively, especially on those perimeter shots, but that's a work in progress. Come playoff time, I expect him to be better acquainted with picking his spots on offense and knocking down treys.
That aside, his athleticism is an eyesore. I cringe everytime he blows a layup.

Lol  be prepared to be doing a ton of cringing the rest of the season.

@Jesoul, na wa o you take style fine o. Anyway, Celtic, don't worry about the glue that binds our team together. Once Gasol gets back into tip-top shape, and Kobe is about 80% recovered from his finger ailments, we should have enough time to fine-tune our chemistry in time for the season that matters.

    now you are killing me lol. I'm flattered brother, flattered.

Abegi jor, why will the Hawks not win when those useless officials handed the game to them on a silver platter? With one sequence of events the Hawks got almost 10points back.

I fear them not. We're missing key players and you cannot realistically expect the team to still put up the same production every night. Sheed alone was responsible for 25pts in the previous game, he was out last night with an injury - Scalabrine cannot replace that. We have shown what we can do without KG, that should not be a concern. The only issue we have is the need to stay healthy.

Maven, haba! na wetin now? Just when I thought I had a good grasp on the thread you go and drop that last dessertation. You've just set back my response by another full day 

  . . . anyways, lemme go and read.

    David and Krayola, you have killed me   

MyJoe:
I have no problem with this.

And I have no problem with that 

This is true of just about anyone born in Nigeria. It is untrue of a many of the kids raised in China or communist-era Czechoslovakia. Here you have state propaganda promoting materialism and many homes continue from the where the state stops. Such kids take to heart the Freudian statement that believing in God is a childhood fancy which mankind will eventually grow out of. They laugh when you talk about God or demons.

Sleep well.

Or perhaps it is true for everyone, but the society they're born into[i] indoctrinates [/i] them out of that knowledge? I have no doubt the societal/religious circumstances one is born into determines largely in which direction they will believe.
Do you personally believe that we're programmed to naturally believe in God? (not talking about religion now, just the concept of God).

Sauer, my friend, I mean this not in an arrogant fashion but I have nothing to prove.

My education and reasoning abilities or lack thereof should be evident from my posts on this thread. And if my entries indicate the latter to you, I have no problem with that. Really  . The only audience I'm truly concerned with impressing are God, my mother and my daddy.

MyJoe:
How come the most most advanced people are the "godless" ones? I don't know.

Perhaps its because too many religionists handicap themselves with their supposed faith? instead of allowing it to spur them on towards greater things? It becomes their crutch and excuse for doing nothing. Instead of going out and working to better themselves, they pervert its purpose and cry to the skies all day long for a divine quik fix. We see this happening on the daily in Naija.

sauer:
Travelled. Now am back, and. . . what has my post turned to!??

Sorry Sauer. It's the nature of the NL beast. Every thread is destined to go off on several tangential journeys that rarely converge or come back to the starting point. Apologies for contributing to that.

Ancel I understand thank you for being a good sport!

MyJoe:
@Jesoul
Your honesty in putting this point across make it hard to argue. Given this position of yours, have you considered the possibility, then, that we will be judged on our sincerity? Which questions the assumption implied in this position held by you and M Nwankwo:

Absolutely but that must be put in context and perspective - there are those are people who willingly and willfully reject God - and even do so sincerely sometimes. They are in a different class from people who could not see or understand anything beyond what they were exposed to, and in sincerity of heart, lived as best they could. See this portion of Rom 2 "Those people who don't know about God's Law will still be punished for what they do wrong. And the Law will be used to judge everyone who knows what it says. God accepts those who obey his Law, but not those who simply hear it. Some people naturally obey the Law's commands, even though they don't have the Law. This proves that the conscience is like a law written in the human heart. And it will show whether we are forgiven or condemned, when God appoints Jesus Christ to judge everyone's secret thoughts, just as my message says."

As you alluded to, the man who lives in Amazon jungle has a vastly different understanding of the world compared to the man living in New York city. We've all had different and varying degrees of knowledge and limited exposure to truth. The beauty of the verse in Romans is that in spite of that, and for those who did not have the opportunity to learn about God, their conscience will serve as their law. I hope this does sufficient justice to the question?

  In regards to the man subscribing only to the material . . . well, I believe that to acknowledge and recognize that there is a God, this knowledge is inherent in each man, programmed if you will, and to reject and supress that knowledge of His existence take a conscious, concerted and even rebelious effort. To strip oneself of that knowledge, is to reject God and not cool.

*sigh* Patriots saved their worst for last. What a poor poor game. Crummy way to end the season. Prayers must now begin in earnest for a full recovery to Welker and for Maroney and his fumbling behind to be sent packing, for the D-line to be shored up and Brady to be exorcised of this new int demon he's possessed with.

I felt sorry for GB, what a sad way to lose a game.

Now that the pretenders have been sent packing, the real playoffs can now begin:

biina:
Cardinals @ Saints (Sat 4:30pm ET)
If Boldin is available, I will go with the Cardinals winning on the road.

Abegi, Saints will take care of bizniz at home.

Ravens @ Colts (Sat 8:15pm ET)
The easiest opposition the colts could get. They should be able to beat the ravens like they have done in the previous 7 meetings.

Don't count on a walk in the park just yet, the Ravens look like a team on a mission.

Dallas @ Vikings (Sun 1:00PM ET))
Both teams are very similar but I will go with the Vikings playing at home and the experience of Favre.

I will be rooting firmly for Romo.

Jets @ Chargers (Sun 4:40pm ET)
Interesting matchup which I feel favors the Jets with their strong running game against the Chargers porous run defence. Interesting to see how Revis will do against Jackson who has a clear physical advantage.

Tough matchup but I think the Chargers will be able to pull this off.

Artest.
Hmm. That guy has some serious mental issues. Wasn't it recently he was questioned again about the brawl and he said he something to the effect of "well I did what I had to do, I'm ghetto". Does anyone else notice that without Kobe, the Lakers are barely a playoff team? inot just in quality but in passion? it seems the team just plays, there's no fire or passion outside of kobe. Ya'll should hope his limbs hold up deep into the playoffs.

And does anyone else think Orlando will bail early on the Carter experiment and trade for someone else?

And I don't understand the attempted trade - Al Jefferson for Danny Granger? what?

There's boli and epa in here? why didn't someone add that to the title?

There are many interesting points in here . . . I will be back.

Deep Sight:
^^^ Have you ever asked yourself these questions:

  1. What if i am wrong?

  2. What if Jesus was only a human who preached positive values

Honestly, more times than you would believe. Almost everyday is a constant reassessment of what the heck it is I am doing, holding to this outrageous claim of a virgin and Jesus and miraculous blood that washes away sin and almost everday is a consistent return to what I have held to as true for a long time now.

Though I will readily admit I am wrong and miss the mark on many issues in regards to my faith, I am afterall just a mere human.

And what if I am wrong? well, that's for all of us to find out someday, till then, I will hold steadfast with no regrets.

And what if you're wrong?

Ancel, worry not my friend, worry not. I meant I did not have any disagreements with him[b] on his take on faith.[/b]

  I have wrestled with Nwankwo in the past many points in regards to the person and divinity of Jesus - and he does not believe as the bible says and has stated so clearly. I do not wish to further beat any previously flogged horses as our divergence on that issue has been established several times.

But perhaps for the benefit of those reading I should've pointed that out? my bad brotha, my bad. I've had many conversations in the past with Nwankwo and I greatly respect him as he does communicate several biblical truths (though he may or may not realize it)with incredible simplicity better than many of us christians here have.

Deep Sight:
I have absolutely no qualms with this, but just remember that exactly the same reasoning will stand in defence of the Hindu who worships Cows.

Lol, touché. I was just trying to point out that rationality is not necessarily or at all divorced from faith and it is not something we can necessarily put our fingers on and take a pulse.

Now, who is right and who is wrong? Is the Hindu cow the way or is it Jesus Christ and the cross? well, I concern myself little with whatever is floating out there. I know what I believe and why I believe it.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=375908.msg5278405#msg5278405 date=1262997885]When God created us, he equipped us (the spirit) with faculties that will help us to recognise God and his will. These faculties allow the human spirit no matter where he is to experience God[/quote]This is infact the biblical position. Rm1 "since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them . . . therefor men are without excuse"

Thus no man can go astray or be incabable of recognising God except he wilfully choose to do so. Only when a human spirit by his own free decision choose to block these faculties of his spirit is the recognition of God made impossible.

more of the bible in there "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened"

Thus my view is that genuine faith in God is only possible through a connection to God and that connection to God is only via the faculties of the spirit. In otherwords, it is the spirit that has the grace of having a connection with God. If the spirit is alive, then the connection to the power of God is extablished and maintained and if the spirit is "dead" or lukeworm, then the connection to the power of God and concomitant experiences due to this connection is severed.

Are you sure you're not a christian? lol.

I agree with Apostle Paul on faith but my perception of what he meant by those words may be quite different from what is widely believed. My view is that Apostle Paul is saying that true faith as well as true experiences belong to the spirit. Thus what the spirit has already seen, the brain is not conscious of it and is still hoping for it. The evidence that the spirit has seen, the brain and its eyes have not yet seen. My view is that Apostle Paul is telling people that if they are to have the grace of genuine faith, they should not rely on the limited and distorted perception of the brain and physical organs rather they should rely on the spirit which is the breath of life from God.

Hmm, I like the way you put that. I do think most people when they consider faith, do so with the thinking you have expressed above, but just cannot express what they feel.

Now back to the example of life after death. Because this is a public forum I am uncomfortable with sharing my many encounters with those who have departed this earthly life. Thus I will use a hypothetical example. Imagine a man or woman who believes in life after death because the bible, koran or other sacred books said so. Such a man do not have faith because he has not the necessary spirtual experience to transform the belief into an irrevocable faith. Then imagine that the spiritual eyes or ears or senses were momentrily opened and the man suddenly sees or senses departed souls, angels and other creatures of God. Then imagine that such a man has not just one but thousands of such experiences. His belief has been transformed to irrevocable faith or conviction and even if the whole world says that life does not exist after death it has no effect on his conviction. Indeed he is indifferent to whether the whole world agree with him or disagree with him. A better picture may be learned from the events of Pentecost. I can say that prior to pentecost, the disciples believed in the son of God but with the pentecost, they had faith for the power of the HolySpirit has transformed their belief to faith with attendant abilities that became manifest. Stay blessed.

Very very true. Indeed, I am indifferent to what the world says because I know what I have seen and experienced.

---

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=375908.msg5280528#msg5280528 date=1263035908]It is incorrect to assume that genuine faith has no evidence. On the contrarly genuine faith is inseparable with clear and indisputable evidence. But the evidence must be sort in its own kind. If one makes a purely spiritual claim, then it is meaniless looking for the evidence in physical matter. Because the skeptics refuse to acknowledge the existence of anything else outside what the physical organs can percieve, then they dismiss everything imperceptible to the brain or instruments that are meant to improve them as myths. Even though the skeptics cannot observe the non-material worlds, they can emperically verify the interaction or the effects of these non-material worlds on the material worlds. Just as an example, if I make a claim that I am permitted to interact with some servants of God called nature beings and they do show me different herbs and how to combine them to treat various illnes. Skeptics or atheists cannot investigate whether or not I interact with these nature beings but they can investigate the success rate of my herbal prescriptions for various illness. If after several independent investigation, and they found that the success rate of my herbal prescriptions is beyound what chance alone can explain, then if they are sincere in their investigation, they should seriously consider the possiblility that my knowledge of the healing secrets of herbs may have been obtained from my interaction with these invinsible servants of God. I encourage sincere atheists,agnostics and skeptics to engage in this sort of investigation instead intellecual debates and arguments. One good advantange of this sort of investigation is that it will show that a majority of these beyound the physical claims are false or can be expalined by chance and that the claimants have no genuine abilities in the first place. But I am certain that they will also find in few cases clear evidence of genuine abilities and that in these few cases, the blessed ones can actually draw on the power of God and bring effect that people consider to be miracles. Go out into the field, into life and investigate, then the bandage may fall, a gate may open that brings to the honest skeptic or atheist or agnostic experiences that may lead him to the recognition of God. Best wishes.[/quote]I could not agree more with all you have said here and as one who believes and follows the bible, I truly cannot find any point to antagonize you on. I just want to say thank you as indeed many of the points I was unable to express, you have done so. Thanks again.

MyJoe:
I am just thinking with my fingers. But what do you think? Is religion compatible with rationality?

Rationality is absolutley central to faith, at least for me.

I will quote Nwankwo who said recently: [quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=375908.msg5280528#msg5280528 date=1263035908]It is incorrect to assume that genuine faith has no evidence. On the contrarly genuine faith is inseparable with clear and indisputable evidence. But the evidence must be sort in its own kind. If one makes a purely spiritual claim, then it is meaniless looking for the evidence in physical matter. Because the skeptics refuse to acknowledge the existence of anything else outside what the physical organs can percieve, then they dismiss everything imperceptible to the brain or instruments that are meant to improve them as myths.[/quote]So infact I could not disagree more when you say this:

MyJoe:
It seems reason goes on recess at the approach of religion (and patriotism!).

What is true reason? PastorAIO has a thread on this topic. Am I being irrational to believe based on a spiritual experience? that cannot be translated into the physical?

  For example, I wasn't there when Jesus was cruficied. I didn't see the Romans beat him up or the Jews sell him out. There is no shred of physical evidence, no blood we can test or dna we can match to Jesus. But I believe it. Why? Because I have had experiences not of the physical, there is a undisputable assurance in my heart, and I have seen the words in the bible become true in my life when I followed it - that then becomes my proof to me, my evidence to me, that the bible is true and genuine. Still makes me irrational? to you maybe, but to me, its perfectly logical.

MyJoe:
It would be refreshing candid, therefore, if we sometimes hear statements like: “Sorry, I can’t really explain the Trinity to you rationally and the biblical support for it is tenuous and without consensus. But I accept it because it is what the church teaches and as a Christian I have no doubt that the church is guided by the Holy Spirit.”

But that is an unrealistic expectation.

Unrealistic why? Perhaps you've been running into overzealous people of faith. I refrain from discussing biblical issues with non-christians for the simple fact I believe and the bible says that non-christians cannot and will not be able to grasp and understand many biblical teachings.

  I think one big problem is trying to solve an algebra equation using the forumla for a chemical reaction, trying to play basketball with your feet, or cook egusi soup using butter instead of palm oil. We should be seperating matters of the spiritual from matters of the physical. But we fast run into a roadblock, as many non-religionists refuse to accept anything that cannot be perceived by the physical senses.

and I think I'm with Max, Farmiga was a drag in the Departed. But she was okay in the Orphan.

spikedcylinder:
I actually don't remember her in The Departed but I think she was Esther's mother in Orphan.
Its not her acting per say, its her amazing sense of presence, physically. For me, she oozes a certain manner of alluring appeal which I find quite interesting. Interesting because, compared to other hollywood actresses, she looks older than her age implies (36) and I think that makes her more. . . you know. . .she just does it for me. Its funny how someone actually looking older than their age gets a thumbs up from me. I can't explain it.
I'm in new found awe.

_{Hold on, did I just sound like a lesbian?}

Hehe  no comment Spiked.

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=173006.msg5287412#msg5287412 date=1263139511]In two years Mattie will be 40. JS , why aren't you calling him Old Man Damon? He'd better not carry his geriatric butt to another instalment of the Bourne series [/quote]Lol, Damon does not look his age, he will be the reigning spy king for many more years to come  . I happened to catch some news story with Craig in it . . . men, its like the wrinkles were having a festival on his face 

Heaven and earth will have to be shaken before I sit down to watch George Clooney  . Know what that means? Spiked you gats some work to do.

I punished myself with 'Whiteout' and 'Surrogates' sat night. Surrogates was not half bad actually, suprisingly. https://www.collider.com/wp-content/image-base/Movies/S/Surrogates/posters/Surrogates%20movie%20poster.jpgIt's set in Boston (that always scores brownie points with me) and its a future world where people can live out their lives through surrogates - from the comfort of their homes. They plug into a network in lay-z-boy like chairs and operate their surrogates - which they can make look however they want. So people do not really know what their coworkers, friends and even spouses look like anymore and no one physically goes out, ever. A small minority called Dreds rebel and choose to live in colonies where no machines/surrogates are allowed. The result is a perfect society, everyone is pretty and handsome, perfectly perfect in every form, fit and cannot be hurt or harmed in any way. Until, a drifter shows up with a device that can fry peoples brains out and kill them through their surrogates. Overall a decent flick, as long as your expectations are reasonable, lol.

As for whiteout, its not worthy of more than a passing thought.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=375908.msg5278405#msg5278405 date=1262997885]Hi JeSoul. Yes I believe that genuine faith is a consequence of ones spirit experiencing the will of God. I intentionally choose to describe faith as something which only the human spirit can have. Thus only those experiences which the spirit is permitted to have gives it the grace of genuine faith. This presupposes that only the man or woman whose spirit is alive, that is, one whose spiritual faculties are open and active can have genuine faith. When God created us, he equipped us (the spirit) with faculties that will help us to recognise God and his will. These faculties allow the human spirit no matter where he is to experience God and his will just like other creatures of God that are already living in heaven, the kingdom of God. Thus no man can go astray or be incabable of recognising God except he wilfully choose to do so. Only when a human spirit by his own free decision choose to block these faculties of his spirit is the recognition of God made impossible. Thus my view is that genuine faith in God is only possible through a connection to God and that connection to God is only via the faculties of the spirit. In otherwords, it is the spirit that has the grace of having a connection with God. If the spirit is alive, then the connection to the power of God is extablished and maintained and if the spirit is "dead" or lukeworm, then the connection to the power of God and concomitant experiences due to this connection is severed. I agree with Apostle Paul on faith but my perception of what he meant by those words may be quite different from what is widely believed. My view is that Apostle Paul is saying that true faith as well as true experiences belong to the spirit. Thus what the spirit has already seen, the brain is not conscious of it and is still hoping for it. The evidence that the spirit has seen, the brain and its eyes have not yet seen. My view is that Apostle Paul is telling people that if they are to have the grace of genuine faith, they should not rely on the limited and distorted perception of the brain and physical organs rather they should rely on the spirit which is the breath of life from God. Now back to the example of life after death. Because this is a public forum I am uncomfortable with sharing my many encounters with those who have departed this earthly life. Thus I will use a hypothetical example. Imagine a man or woman who believes in life after death because the bible, koran or other sacred books said so. Such a man do not have faith because he has not the necessary spirtual experience to transform the belief into an irrevocable faith. Then imagine that the spiritual eyes or ears or senses were momentrily opened and the man suddenly sees or senses departed souls, angels and other creatures of God. Then imagine that such a man has not just one but thousands of such experiences. His belief has been transformed to irrevocable faith or conviction and even if the whole world says that life does not exist after death it has no effect on his conviction. Indeed he is indifferent to whether the whole world agree with him or disagree with him. A better picture may be learned from the events of Pentecost. I can say that prior to pentecost, the disciples believed in the son of God but with the pentecost, they had faith for the power of the HolySpirit has transformed their belief to faith with attendant abilities that became manifest. Stay blessed.[/quote][quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=375908.msg5280528#msg5280528 date=1263035908]It is incorrect to assume that genuine faith has no evidence. On the contrarly genuine faith is inseparable with clear and indisputable evidence. But the evidence must be sort in its own kind. If one makes a purely spiritual claim, then it is meaniless looking for the evidence in physical matter. Because the skeptics refuse to acknowledge the existence of anything else outside what the physical organs can percieve, then they dismiss everything imperceptible to the brain or instruments that are meant to improve them as myths. Even though the skeptics cannot observe the non-material worlds, they can emperically verify the interaction or the effects of these non-material worlds on the material worlds. Just as an example, if I make a claim that I am permitted to interact with some servants of God called nature beings and they do show me different herbs and how to combine them to treat various illnes. Skeptics or atheists cannot investigate whether or not I interact with these nature beings but they can investigate the success rate of my herbal prescriptions for various illness. If after several independent investigation, and they found that the success rate of my herbal prescriptions is beyound what chance alone can explain, then if they are sincere in their investigation, they should seriously consider the possiblility that my knowledge of the healing secrets of herbs may have been obtained from my interaction with these invinsible servants of God. I encourage sincere atheists,agnostics and skeptics to engage in this sort of investigation instead intellecual debates and arguments. One good advantange of this sort of investigation is that it will show that a majority of these beyound the physical claims are false or can be expalined by chance and that the claimants have no genuine abilities in the first place. But I am certain that they will also find in few cases clear evidence of genuine abilities and that in these few cases, the blessed ones can actually draw on the power of God and bring effect that people consider to be miracles. Go out into the field, into life and investigate, then the bandage may fall, a gate may open that brings to the honest skeptic or atheist or agnostic experiences that may lead him to the recognition of God. Best wishes.[/quote]There is so much you have said here Nwankwo that I'm going to take some time to think and chew on. I will be back to pick your brain a little more on these issues, but thank you so so much for this. The simplicity and honesty with which you approach spiritual issues is truly a gift. Everyday we have many learned posters on NL, well educated and armed with a considerable grasp of the dictionary but yet it is all hot air that dissipates quickly, I am yet to be touched and moved by them as I am with your posts. I thank you sir and I will be back!

Vesc, I have wondered myself about the 911, I was having a slow on creativity day when I created the acct I guess. And what's with you needing rest? those extra-curricular activities finally catching up to you?

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=173006.msg5281338#msg5281338 date=1263046966]Bet they had to explain those odd-looking things are books and even then she didn't get it.[/quote]Chai!    Foximoto defend your wife now

Lol at healthy, good looking lot of slaves.

Everyone in Sparta was hot.

Hot is a gross understatment. People of low to moderate self esteem should be banned from seeing it . . . talk about making one feel inadequate.

. . . still, that gates of hell will not prevail.

The church is not a building but a people, and for that, I am always thankful.

Ancel, I don't do soda. Got any pineapple juice?

ilosiwaju:
meanwhile deepsight, i understand you so far though dont agree totally but u may want to start developing analogies(like the buddhist monk n noetic thingy) just for non-maths/non-grammar people to paint your point. _{just a side note sha.}

Lol . . . true jare, length I can handle, grammar I can handle, numbers are so last century.
I'm kinda following so far, I think, and it seems like this thread might get derailed by this stubborn infinity. Anyways, Deepsight please continue.

spikedcylinder:
What blasphemy?!?!? Over Meagan kini? Na you and her titi lai lai.
You never jam.

Lol . . . for better or worse!

JK, its charissa911@hotmail.com. I'm waiting for my rice oh! I would like some malt to drink, if you don't have that I will settle for a sprite. Tanka.

Its Foximoto's birthday? 

Aww Happy birthday JK! and happy new year. Where's our jollof rice and cake?

spikedcylinder:
Happy Birthday JK! What do you want me to get you? A big 'ol poster of M?

 
https://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/scanner/2008/09/16-22/megan_fox_lesbian.jpg
men it was a feat finding a decent pic of this girl

ancel:
JeSoul my dear, now I am back to respond to your question.

hehe only after a bit of harrasment from me

Simply put, many people do not know the difference between ice-cream and medicine. There are many flavours of ice-cream: vanilla, strawberry, chocolate, butter pecan, etc. It's the beauty of icecream: choose what you prefer. The flavour you prefer is only a temporal matter. Afterall, you will only eat the icecream and shakes hands with Sir John afterwards. But as for medicine, it does not make sense to choose what you prefer! You can't choose to take Vitamin C in place of an anti-malaria drug just because the first tastes better. And that is very much how faith matters are: some things are not palatable or believable or loveable, but you gotta take em cos that's what you need! Yes, there are ice-cream parts of the Christian walk: like an NL thread I saw JeSoul on - "Makeup is evil for Christians", the defenders screamed. "No! You can't be listening to an RnB song!!" Another mum screams somewhere. "No more TV!", a father tells the family. "Jonah swallowed a trout, the writer got it mixed up!", screams a Nairalander (sorry I couldnt resist the joke). "The earth is 6 trillion days old!". "322 contradictions in the Bible!". All that stuff is ice-cream. Gimme medicine, and let me live!

Haha! Ice-cream vs medicine. This Ancel has taken it to another dimension

Whether some Biblical stories were not historical accounts or NOT, they have made me understand man's relation to God through the ages. Whether they are allegorical or not is a moot point. Aesop's fables are allegorical, so is Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass. And Sun Tzu's The Art of War. All over the world, people are still studying them and deriving volumes of new understanding about what the author was referring to. Or does the fact that Jonah's story is an allegory, does it stop me from understanding that when people decide to take turns away from what God instructs them to do, they PAY heavily for it, and when they repent they find out that God had been waiting for them to come back home?

Very well said. Which is why I commented to Krayola that I choose to view most of them as historical.

Or, if you say Christ's birth was not immaculate, how does that affect me, who has taken the medicine, gotten healed and moved on with my life? Maybe you saw me take the medicine and lick my lips, and so you think its ice-cream that you can decide to take or not to take. But understanding the nature of Christ's birth, for me, is/was medicine, not ice-cream. But it's sweet medicine and I have tasted of it, so you may see me licking my lips each time I approach the matter and think its ice-cream No, people, it's not.

Naim I dey ask Saucer since page 1

Lest I forget, one interesting difference about the Christian faith is that UNLIKE every religious and non-religious leader who came before of after him, Jesus never promised that following him would be ice-cream, or that his followers will eventually "get there", that point of satisfaction (or Nirvana, or Enlightenment, or a promise of 72 virgins or so) and be able to rest on their oars. In fact, he said it WAY TOO OFTEN that it was going to be bitter medicine. He kept on preaching the impossibility of earning your way into heaven, and how it was necessary to put your trust entirely in God.

Very very important distinction. And I thank you for pointing that out and sharing. Muchos gracis senor.