₦airaland Forum

michelin89:
Why do you think Christianity is the only truth?

My sister I don't 'think', I know it is the only truth. But that discussion is for a whole nother thread.

debosky:
Can you shed more light as to the basis of this answer? Are people then born spiritually heterosexual or born with the potential to be heterosexual?

If they are born with 'potential' as it were, are ALL people born with this potential?

Excellent! that's a point I was hoping someone who eventually bring up.
What I was trying to get at with the post was that we're all born with the sinful nature - and homosexuality is a sin and therefore is part of the sinful nature which is inherent in all of us. So in a way you could say spiritually that they were 'born' with it but I'd rather put it this way:

  to answer your question and looking at it from a spiritual angle, what we are all born with is the 'potential' to be sinful. We all struggle with different sins. Some of us struggle with lying, murder, stealing, fornication etc and some unfortunate others, homosexuality. Some resist and fight the urge and go on to live happy heterosexual lives and others give in to the sinful desires and therefore have chosen to be participants of this deviation from the natural. Hope this makes sense.

olabowale:
@Jesoul: Thanks. How have you been? I hope the family is well?

All is well sir . How is my Olayiwola?

olabowale:
Interestingly, a liar was able to seduce you to accepting his premise! Is Quran a Bible? Read it. A poet like you is expected to appreciate written materials.Compare the Bile side by side with the Quran. There is no resemblance. Even remotely. Incidentally he says the Koran. Q is not next to K. If a person calls me Olajide, should I accept it as my name? Even if a person calls me Olawale, is that my name? Can a sane mind, the matriculated kind say that Q is K and U is O? Except a dishonest mind will make such leap of fate.

that is by leap years and galaxies the truest thing I have seen you write on NL

wow 19 pages

I just got caught up on all the entries and thanks to all who've voiced their support or disgust  . It has taken many twists and turns not too far from the topic but I've enjoyed reading the very spirited discourse.

  Binna may have given me the answer I was looking for. He said and I paraphrase:
Strictly spiritually speaking, People are not born gay, but they are born with the potential to be gay.

noetic2:
13. Your bible is corrupt. . .I can show u the contradictions.

I agree that the bible is corrupt. . . the corrupt version is called KORAN.

Lol . . . Noetic I very much enjoyed your post and found the above quote to be most hilarious   

noetic2:
@ olabowale

did u make ANY point?
[quote author=davidylan link=topic=281109.msg3992369#msg3992369 date=1244422320]I think he did . . . the fact that he had no point in itself was a point.

[/quote]Lol . . . 

Alhaji,
how have you been? I have surely missed you

Oh okay that explains it.

iice:
[color=#9900ff]You know me and JS love pishun pishun movies. . . [/color]

lol . . . hehe iice knows me well well    I'm counting down the says to June 24th- Transformers cannot come out faster  Autobots Unite!

but eh I no follow you reach "True Blood" side oh . . . .   

Inglorious Bs is out? Poor advertising. If I haven't seen the trailers then they're doing a crappy job. I can't tell you how many commercials of that stupid "Land of the Lost" I've seen    I even know some of the dialogue by heart now 

bawomolo:
Jesoul - do you have the keys to my mind. how are you so sure i believe homosexuality is some kinky fetish that's a choice?

Not only do I have the keys to your mind, I also have those to your other important faculties . I know you know deep down like everyone else knows deep down homosexuality is not natural. I can't prove it but I am certain of it.

C2H5OH:
bawo knows in his subconscious that homosexuality is nothing but an odd fetish. he just doesn't wish to concede that point.

I suspect the same my dear.

Chrisbenogor:
@Jesoul
The point I was trying to put across was this, no you know stealing is bad because you must have felt the urge to and then resisted it. You have never ever felt it for a girl so you have never even had the urge that is my point.
Lets even use stealing as an example, have you ever heard of people who suffer from kelptomania:

This condition was only diagnosed in 1960, how do you think the world has treated the people with this same condition that are on the other side of time?

Probably very differently. But you must admit homosexuality is on a whole nother level on the deviation scale.

I'm torn . . . 

   Federer vs. my newest Hero Soderling  . May the best man win

bawomolo:
Then it's not a spiritual argument but a "discussion" restricted to Christians for a known reason. I doubt if the notoriously liberal Unitarian Christians would be welcomed in this convo of yours.

Why you're taking this so personal is beyond me.
  is it so hard to understand christians will speak from a christian & biblical perspective?  I knew the discussion would digress into other aspects which is why I've been harping the last couple pages on the spiritual side.

no offense but this is the equivalent of the KKK discussing the civil rights movement.
The tone of the discussion was already set with comments like un-natural, perversion and deviation.

And are the discussants not permitted to their own opinions and say on the matter?
I & others believe it is a deviation from the norm, does it mean we hate gays? 

bawomolo:
If the point of the thread is to argue about homosexuals from a spiritual perspective then why is it only meant for christian.

Are christians the only spiritual people? can't a buddhist or taoist comment on homosexuality?

I prefer 'discuss'.

The topic called for christian opinions only becos of the angle I was trying to attack the question from is from a christian/biblical perspective of the sinful nature. Not becos I was trying to seclude everyone else, I did also say anyone else was welcome to comment.

bawomolo:
yes i'm looney enough [/b]to argue that.

My dear Bawo I should've never doubted you  

[b]how is heterosexuality genetic but homosexuality not? keep in mind i believe both are natural.

I think you're asking amiss. It's not about which is "genetic" but moreso about which is the natural order. If not then are you going to ask next whether sleeping is genetic and insomnia is not? or if eating is genetic and anorexia is not?

Let's not digress, the simple point I was making is heterosexuality is the natural inclination and homosexuality is the deviation. Whether or not you want to agree, that na the truth, not becos Jesoul said so but just ask around . . .

davidylan:
Someone asked (foolishly if i may add) whether there is a heterosexual gene . . . there is no better example than both the male and female gamettes . . .

Unlike somatic cells, germ cells are the ONLY cells of the human body that undergo meiosis because both contain only half the number of chromosomes. If there was no use for heterosexuality we'd all have been born hermaphrodites or egg-laying mammals like the platypus.

Pls the individual who made such a comment (a foolish one if i may again reiterate) shld not say that again.

Bawo have you heard?      

C2H5OH:
to avoid digression then we should get back on topic.
what we are aspiring to prove here is that homosexuality is genetic.
again, the pro gay orthodoxy that people are born gay is equivalent to saying a gene is responsible for sexual orientation.
all i need is proof.


if you can differentiate between a straight baby and a gay baby at birth i wil forfeit all other points.

A false aspiration becos even the gayest of scientists still cannot prove it scientifically.

The original purpose of the thread was to look at it from a spiritual perspective of the sinful nature - hence the lead charge for christians.

bawomolo:
is there an heterosexual gene? if not, why are you so confident heterosexuality is natural and homosexuality isn't?

           Are you going to such ridiculous lengths to try to win the argument?

Who on this thread is looney enough to even attempt to argue that heterosexuality is not the natural order? and homosexuality the deviation? 

Relocatusa:
Please pray for me and send me words of encouragement, I have been struggling with homosexuality and I feel myself being drawn to it again. I am so ashamed. Help me. Your texts will be a constant reminder and will fortify me in my battle. 08023207844. Please help, Yemisi

My sister I commend you for being brave and bold enough to ask for help. And by the unfailing grace of God you will overcome this and will live to be a testimony to others. Continue to drench yourself in the word and in the company of fellow believers. Allow the Holy Spirit to lead and direct you in everything and it will be well with you.

Father I thank you for our sister and pray in the name of your Son Jesus Christ that you grant her the strength to overcome this great temptation, not by might nor by power, but by Your Holy Spirit. In Jesus name. Amen.

biina:
@Jesoul
I said key, not top free agent. Lets be realistic a lot of those guys are going nowhere ( and definitely not for free).

Okey dokey, my bad   

1. Lebron - Definitely the top free agent of 2010. Everybody wants him, and if he leaves Cleveland, he wouldn't want to go to a similar team. The guy wants rings. Before losing him for free in 2010, the Cav would trade for all they can get.

I believe if the Cavs don't make major adjustments to the line up this yr, Lebron is def gone. I believe a good chunk of the Cav team is up for free agency this summer so they should have some dough at their disposal to pick up some solid veterans _{if any are available}.

2. Dwade - Will not be leaving Miami. He is leading a young team with high prospects, needing only one more star player - a big man. The only place he would consider is Chicago but his going to Chicago, apart from being his hometown, would be a step backwards in his championship bid

I don't know if going to Chitown would be a step back . . . who else is in Miami that can help him make a run? oyinbo rookie? or is it over-the-hill Jermaine?

3. Chris Bosh - The key free agent guy that could complement any of the other top stars to make the 1-2 punch needed for a ring. He is to Dwade/lebron what pau gasol is to Kobe, or KG is to Pierce. He simply bring in a super star quality of a different dimension. He has already declared he is not signing an extension and that means he is up for a trade unless raptor want to loose him for nothing.

In that you're absolutely right!

4. Amare Stoudemire - The next key player. Another mobile big man that can be that needed side kick. I rate chris ahead of him cos of his often poor defence and injury ridden career.

Amare is a defensive liability in the middle and what have we known leads to championships? Defense. Unless he takes major steps to improve his defensive game I don't see him helping anyone beyond Rd 1 or 2.

5. Paul Pierce - at 33 and KG at Boston, he is not going anywhere.

Amen to that! 

6. Joe Johnson - The hawks star player is going nowhere.

Says who? For the right price and in the right situation he will waka go.

7 Yao Ming - Not leaving houston despite his injury ridden career. With artest and Battier, they feel they have something going.

Yeah unlikely he'll leave but I won't rule it out . . . we've seen stranger things happen 

8. Rajon Rondo - Aint going nowhere

Infact if he needs a place to stay Chiogo's house is open 24/7 

9. Tracy McGrady - Does anybody want him?

Maybe some european team wanting to sell more tickets? or the Clippers . . . they'll take anybody who can bounce a ball, that's where careers go to die.

10. Josh Howard - Good player but more suited as the third option in a championship team.

  I'm afraid you're right.

11. Ray Allen. Not going anywhere. The current team still has enough gas left in the tank for championship runs for a few more years.

You're speaking my kind of language jare 

btw Binna, I loved ur entry on the "women/pulpit thread" very mature and well seasoned response. Many people will be blessed by that. Keep it up!

Chiogo my dear I forgot to say CONGRATULATIONS!!! and as A-40 talk am na now real school dey begin
And I think you'd asked me a while back (i forgot to respond) about my lil bro, he's a junior and 20yrs . And I read the Herald online few times a week, is your name in ot for the honor roll?

Chrisbenogor:
I give you that if you say biblically, but again you see that we cannot really tell if they should change or not.

How do you mean? I don't have to be theif to tell a theif what he's doing is wrong do I? by biblical standards my brother, you should stay what you are and be with a member of the opposite sex.
 

You did not have any input whatsoever to become a girl did you? can you say you are a partaker of being a girl ( I wonder how that sounds but I hope it gets my point across) People's genetic disorders are no fault of their own, the fact that the particular sequence has not been separated does not mean it might not be there.

I knew that "partakers" word might be problematic. The point is Chris whether or not they had a hand or active voice and participation in their current predicatment is irrelevant. The fact is they are in the wrong biblically.
 And until the 'gay gene' is identified you must appreciate why we skeptics will not be biting on that bone.

That is what I have been trying to say, dont you think that is how gross it is for them to feel that towards the opposite sex?

The brain does wonders my dear.

lol   I don't doubt they feel very convinced about the way that they feel - I'm not contending that at all. But one can be very sincere, but be sincerely wrong.


@Secretz,
na wa for all this kin people wey you dey work with

porka:
i don't know what this thread is aimed at. i have followed it with keen interest and there are few questions i need to ask.

1) if gays or homosexuals are claiming to have gay genes would they have been born in the first place? genes are support to be passed from parent to offspring. it reminds me of two eunuchs in my community, they were (both are dead now) from the same parent. some of the village folks said they inherited it from their parents. pray, how could a parent have seered eunuchs if he were a eunuch himself.

Well there is no conclusive, solid proof or evidence of homosexuality being linked to ones genes so for now their claims will remain just claims.

2) [b]are pedophiles and people who practice incest and those who have sex with dogs and horses born with that "condition"? i mean, i know a guy who said he first had sex with him mother and he in turn had sex with his own daughter. he seems to have that gene passed down from generations according to him.

That's the problem & the question. Spiritually speaking, they are also born with a sinful nature like the rest of us . . . but yet only some become those things. Is it the same for homosexuals? Can we blame it on the sinful nature?

3) what is the actual population of homosexuals? i don't think they are more than a handful in any society, europe or no europe.

I don't know the exact figures but it varies from place to place. SanFran is way likely to have a higher population of homosexuals than say Alabama  

4) and since the poster comes from a christian perspective, what is the position of the bible in this. from 1 cor 6:9-10 can we say thieves were born thieves? are drunkards born drunkards? should we say fornicators are born to fornicate?
these are just a few questions that we need to find answers to. [/color]  [/b]

Thanks for including scripture here. The fact that the bible lumps homosexuality with the other sins should tell us something right? If its a sin like the others then its also product of the sinful nature, right? albeit a very nasty product.

People are arguing saying homosexuality is learned from societal influences but I'm wondering if its not just another side effect from having the sinful nature? along with stealing, fornicating etc - that's the point of the thread my dear.

No2Atheism:
One thing i notice about the Caucasian culture is that[b] they would create any medical excuse for even the most simplest behavioural pattern[/b]. Despite that such problems can be sometimes treated and analsysed by non-medical methods.

You're right about that, and it is one thing I really dislike about the western culture. Instead of people to simply take responsiblity for their actions they blame it on everything from genes to hormonal imbalance to temporary insanity.

Chrisbenogor:
@Jesoul hehehehehe lol no mind me and urge to kill

lol    make sure you don't have any weapons nearby at all times    . . .

I cannot remember choosing to like girls either so do you think it will be any different for those who, it is always easy for us to say they should pick one and stick with it when we do not know how they feel inside.

You're right its easy to tell someone else what to do when you yourself haven't gone thru it. However my brother easy or not easy for me to say, it is still the right thing for them to do - biblically.
 

As for those with transgender, would you blame them for their condition?

I don't think we should ever be in the business of assigning blame but moreso about addressing and fixing the problem. Whether or not its their fault, it doesn't change the fact they are partakers of a gross deviation from the natural.

Again I ask you have you had the temptation of having sex with another girl? I know I have had thought of having sex with a girl but with guys!!!!! eeeewwwwww gross!

lol see as Chris flipped the question on me   Insert a big, emphatic NO!   I have been hit on by other women and honestly it is just flat out disgusting and unsettling. Temptation usually comes to me disguised as a handsome son of adam    to that I'll plead guilty all day.

Secretz:
I work with identical male twins aged 32 years. They are both GAY.

Me sef, I don't know how to explain this one. One claims to be a devout christian, who prays,goes church every sunday and preaches the word (as I mentioned earlier),but his brother is a loose canon.

One thing they both said is that they have felt this way since they could remember, . . . . .

No vex me oh. . . . I had to ask them as this topic made me even more curious.

I'm glad you used the word "claim" . One cannot be a christian yet deliberately live in sin and obedience to the word. I wary of when they say "they've felt that way as long as they could remember" . . . what else do we expect them to say in their defense?

Chrisbenogor:
@Jesoul
how body

My brotha I dey o jare   good to see you're alive and well  .

Chrisbenogor:
quick questions, how should hermaphrodites express their sexual orientation biblically?

Well the bible doesn't really give a direct opinion on it (like many other issues) so if you want a direct 'biblical' answer I don't have one. However, in keeping with 'biblical values', I would say the choice is up to them to pick one side and stick with it. Don't most of them elect surgery to identify themselves as one or the other?

Chrisbenogor:
Do you remember choosing to like boys?

Not vividly no. It's one of those 'natural inclination' things david mentioned in the 2nd post on this thread.

Chrisbenogor:
Do you know what transgender is?

Unfortunate confused people who choose to 'switch' sexes?

That is the point I tried to drive home to C2H05 yesterday, we get the urge to have sex with the sex we are attracted to not the other way round, every other sin is common to every human being, stealing even almost everyone will get the urge to want to kill someone depending how we are pushed, but who fantasizes about homosexuality!

I half agree with you above. I understand those of homosexual persuation believe that its natural to them, but thats not really what's in contention. I do submit wholeheartedly homosexuality is a severe deviation from the natural order, I'm trying to understand why we (christians) seperate it from other sins when it could be its just another part of our sinful nature. I have never had the urge to kill anyone Chris so maybe you should speak for just urself?  

michelin89:
We had to digress for a moment since some smart people think being a homo and being a thief are the same thing. We'll get back on track.

lol . . . oya continue

Horus:
If you Christians claim that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their homosexual acts, then why are there still homosexuals still alive today, or did God fail to kill them? Why did he let these people become homosexuals in the first place, if he hated it so much?

You're trying to be mischeivous aren't you Horus? I'm tempted to respond but it'll take us off topic, maybe on another thread on another day.

After all the drama I nor even watch the game    but mehn wetin happen to the magic? dem nor chop breakast and lunch?  I hear the 3s did not fall like they did in Cleveland . . . what is the 1st commandment of bball? Though shalt not live by the jumpshot! diversify people, diverisfy your game.
  Anyways game 2 will tell us if this is a trend or a statistical outlier.

Binna,
   how is Bosh the 'key' free agent of next summer?  Here a quick list of the upcoming freeagent sweepstakes:

Lebron James
D. Wade
Chris Bosh
Amare Stoudemire
Paul Pierce
Joe Johnson
Manu Ginobili
Yao Ming
Josh Howard
Tracy McGrady
Rajon Rondo
Ray Allen

   Amare and Bosh will be somewhere in the East fo sho & somehow I don't think Wade will leave Miami and Pierce is almost certain to retire a Celtic. Joe Johnson has youth on his side, he can help a team to the promised land. Yao is not necessarily needed in Houston, they seem to fare just fine without him. As for TMac - God be with him  I will not be suprised if he retires soon.

By the way, what do ya'll think is going to happen to AI, Kidd and Artest this summer? I expect houston to keep Ron-ron but AI is likely to be homeless, which team will be willing to make him their starting PG?

  Thanks to everyone so far who has dropped a response but most people are not really attacking the issue from the direction I was looking for.

  Strictly spiritually speaking:
If we all agree homosexuality is part of the sinful nature, and we all struggle with different sins and have tendencies towards different sins, then is it really far-fetched to say some people were simple "born" with their sinful nature inclined towards this particular tendency?

  And we can't really blame homosexuality on the west, it has existed since early biblical times its just that its getting more rampant & acceptable now.

@Manmustwac,
tried adding the poll but NL is acting up again.

[quote author=Dr. Lorenz link=topic=279591.msg3981177#msg3981177 date=1244203737]Very very interesting replies i must say. There's a question i want to ask, Is the poster gay? Or perhaps know someone very close who is? I know she said the post is for Christians, but i just can't help asking,[/quote]Dr, nope not gay . And I believe the bible when it says its a deviation from the norm. & while I don't have any friends personally who are I've worked very closely with a few and they have been warm, honest, genuine people even though I disagree with their lifestyle. It made me want to understand them better. And as said in the first post, it came up under discussion during a bible study.

Horus:
I think that most of you do not talk about gays man who look very masculin. Some man are born with a very masculin appearence but are gay. The reverse is also possible ; Some men are born with a feminin appearence but are not gay. So you cannot be 100% sure who you dealing with. So dont be judgemental about anybody.

Horus, I think from the comments thus far those gays are likely to fall under the category of those who "learn" to be gay as a result of societal influences?

proudly9ja:
ofcourse I agree. How this happens is what I do not know but like I said, Im sure it has to do with something that person's lineage did or did not do since its a gene thing. U know the genes could be recessive or dominant so it doesn't have to be associated with his/her immediate parents. Also, on a personla level, I do not think science has fully understood the nature of genes and how they are transfered and how much is even transfered. I for one think that genes can be changed/ammended if taking through series of 'treatment'. Same way a rock is eventually broken down after several years of being hit by same little drop of water. Get the drift?

I definitely get your drift. I do however get wary when we begin to attribute a persons tendencies & characteristics to their genetic make-up. Like someone mentioned where then will it end? murderers, alcoholics, child molestors will join the bandwagon and claim they too were born that way   well we'll see with time I guess.

On the spiritual side of things I like your stance here:

Again, Adam brought SIN into the world. SIN of all forms. His first son killed his brother. Thats murder which is a part of that sinful nature. Infact, its not a side effect, its part of the big package called SIN. BUT, the same way that it affected Cain is the same way it has affected you and I. but we are yet to kill someone (I haven't anyways ).
Like I said, there is a remedy as long as the person is willing to be cured. Like every ailment, it can be cured. I really don't like attaching such things to spiritual all the time. Everything in life is spiritual and sometimes in our bid to be spiritual, we miss the simple solutions.

Agree completely about we inheriting all of the sinful nature. I guess it can be refered to as spiritual genes right? some get expressed and others don't. And what this deciding trigger or factor is we don't know? Is that safe to say?
 and fyi, I also am yet to oust anyone   although some riffraffs here in religious forum do an excellent job of testing my restraint on a daily basis  .

@OLAADEGBU  

Absolutely!  Not only societal influences but child abuses prevalent in the RCC and other diabolical attacks on babies and young children by some disfunctional families especially here in the west.  These unfortunate children grow up disenchanted and disorientated and end up becoming atheists who in turn prey on young unsuspecting children, they become homosexuals, paedophiles or prostitutes.  

These atheists who are fortunate to get a good education then join powerful societies or clubs such as the occult and eventually get into political power to promote policies that makes homosexuality the norm and even have the cheek to equate it with the disabled and the minority in the society.  These humanist secular governments have become so powerful that they not only enforce the promotion of this dastardly act in schools but they also prosecute anyone who shows or preaches against it.  These are surely the last days that was predicted.  I will not be surprised if I get banned for expressing my views here.

I definitely agree that a good chunk of gays fall into that lifestyle as a result of their negative experiences however I hesistate to throw them all under that umbrella for the simple reason that homosexuality has existed since the early biblical times ie Sodom and Gom. How can we conclusively say they were also a product of their environment?

Game 1 will soon be in the books.
  Orlando you have my permission to jazz and juju the lakers into utter confusion & oblivion. Go with my blessings.   
and they are def playing chess with the rumors of Nelson making a comeback . . .

Cristalz:
Love this thread. . .always cool and civilized. Thanks, posters.

Thanks Cristalz! 

RuuDie:

"Honestly I think I lost because of me and not because of anything she did," Serena said.

"In the third I had an opportunity and I got really tight, and I pretty much gave it to her. It was like, Here, do you want to go to the semis? Because I don't. She was like, Okay."

An excerpt from Serena's interview after her loss. . . . . . ridiculous! Just admit it girl, you were out-thought, outfoxed and outclassed - Serena seems to think tennis is all about the muscles.

You should'a seen Kuznetsova - she was brilliant. . . . . stunning crosscourt smashes and good, strong fore-hand shots!

*Hiss* Serena has done this several times. Her pride and arrogance is just too much, even when she plays against Venus, she's always a sore loser if she doesn't win. Be gracious and compliment your opponent, it doesn't hurt. I'm glad she's gone. Venus has always been my fav.