₦airaland Forum

goshen360:
WATCH THE VIDEO. HE SAID IT AND I WAS SHOCKED ALSO. I CAN'T BUT CONCLUDE HE IS A FALSE TEACHER. GOD IS EXPOSING HIM. BELIEVE ME.

I HOPE JOAGBAJE WILL NOT DEFEND HIM IN THIS STATEMENT O.

Which one is my own na?  DO your post leave it there.

@snowy,
I never cease to be amazed at your ability to endure this much on this issue. Many righteous men have left the argument seeing it as waste of time .but at least some individuals are still learning one or two things from you.

Snowwy:
@goshen360,
since you said I didn't hear you wrong then I maintain there's no need for discussion. I read a complete bible and not just a part.
I also assume you are saying nothing in the old testament is applicable for us today.

The principles if God transcend dispensations . Either they originate under the law or before the law. These are spiritual truths.  People just ignorantly give a blanket assumption .why does paul make reference to certain things in the law.

The things done away in the law are the things Christ fulfilled. Tithe has no connection with Christ death. The only connection is his priesthood. Which is forever . As long as there's a high priest ,there must be tithing.

You talk like 'giving' was coined from the new testament only.
When the Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek, gave his son to GOD, gave to strangers and the Israelites brought all their tithes, offerings of thanks, helped and gave alms to the less priviledged, gave in respect to building the temple, gave to prophets, gave to family etc, what were they doing then?.

THANK YOU. If they are against tithing but believe in offerings . It's hypocrisy. And if they don't believe in giving offerings to God. Then what is their sacrifice.  "FREEWILL" it's also part of old testament principle. You can't chose one part to take.

Zikkyy:
Joagbaje cannot really explain what he meant by principle. He does not have a clue. The aim is to confuse the congregation knowing they are never going to ask for explanation.

I hardly read your posts they are empty .

Snowwy believes pre-law tithing continues to operate outside of the mosaic law. This is something i have been trying to get snowwy to understand. Pre-law tithing was either nailed to the temple wall or was subsumed into the mosaic law (levitical tithe). If Melchi had surfaced at the time the mosaic law was in operation, he would not be receiving tithe unless he was from the tribe of Levi.

Stop talking about what you don't know, rather sit and watch ,

Offering is a principle, I said earlier, don't get into the petty petty of wave offering ,or sin offering. Those are for the Jews . What counts is that you cant say you are worshiper of God without offerings. Offerings and tithes are based on same principles . Principles are eternal.

m_nwankwo:
Hi Frosbel. Please, kindly explain how it is absolutely true that reincarnation is a lie of the devil. Stay blessed.

It's not reincarnation that is of the devil . Reincarnation does not exist to start with. It's the doctrine of reincarnation that is of the devil.
Though we can deny the fact that some claimed to have been on earth before . It's a demonic programming.

. . . .is that your picture ? . You're really handsome

It's simple. If you don't believe in prosperity , stay in your poverty. .

goshen360:
We are learning too well here. Everyone of us that is against the "monster" called tithe believe in giving.

Speak for yourself . The Fact that you don't believe in tithe doesn't mean those who believe in it are wrong. Everyone has right to what he believes. You Re entitled to your opinion.

numo86:
My bro if it was all about physical wealth @ least just 1 of the apostles would have been wealthy,

The apostle sacrificed to reach others, they denied themselves they were not poor. If a man decides to Fast, does it mean he can't afford a meal? . All Inge belong to us. We have different callings. Every calling has its sacrifice. Some sacrifice food, shelter,marriage , comfort. It's a personal choice. If paul denied himself wealth he didn't impose it on the church. They sacrificed do that the brethren can be comfortable . That's their lot.

2 Corinthians 4:12
12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

2 Corinthians 6:10
(We) As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

Every christian has inheritance . Every christen may not be rich , but at least they have the right to know what belongs to them. Let the rest be for their choices and callings.

So you must understand the difference between self denial and lack . They are not the same. We are rich in Christ. The wealth of the christian is not for opulence but for giving  .

numo86:
What about his apostles?
were they rich

It's their choice. Some didn't get married too. Does it make marriage wrong?

That 1 corinthians u quoted does not refer to physical wealth @ all,but spiritual,

Prove it. That's your own idea

Some dreams are piritusl revelations. Some dreams are just ordinary soulish activity.

dare2think:
What are the 'blessings' that those who tithe get that the non-tithers miss out on??

Can you please name them, maybe you can convince the independent ones to tithe.

This is not arithmetic. They are numerous. It's like saying what's the benefit of giving to the poor, what's the benefit of justice,prayer . For every giving and every acting on the ord of God ,there's blessing ,there's grace.

Enigma:
Has Oyakhilome not taught that those not tithing are robbing God? Does that not mean that "tithing" is compulsory.

Let's leave pastor chris out of discussion. I am joagbaje

Enigma:
Now this is an interesting point; see the confusion:

- Joagbaje says tithing today is based on Abraham ("spiritual principle"; that means it is not compulsory. 

- Oyakhilome says those not tithing are robbing God; that means it IS compulsory! 

- Snowwy says Jesus made tithing valid; is it the compulsory one or the non-compulsory one?

E má pa iró mó mi. God does not force anybody into anything. I've always said its like prayer. Is prayer compulsory or not. Is giving compulsory or not. Its a matter of choice . You do it ,you enjoy the benefit , you don't do it you miss out of its blessing. It's not an issue of compulsion here.

A christian can be poor through ignorance if Christ riches for him. Jesus died for our sin,sickness,poverty .

2 Corinthians 8:9
9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.


A christian who remain poor after Christ had be made poor on his behalf has himself to blame

He was not born again. He was just born into a religious family.

Is google your bible? Kings takes taxes . Either it's 1% 10% or 50%. But  Tithing is unto God through a high priest . Abraham didn't give Melchizedek tithe on the ground that he was a king but because he was Gods high priest.

Hebrews 5:6
As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Why would God say "ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK ".? What is "order" ? A structure. This tells us it wasn't a one time event.

garyarnold:
Abram wasn't a tither.  If there was a so-called spiritual law of tithing there would be more examples than a ONE-TIME event, from war spoils, NOT from his regular wealth or income.

That's the account we have. That doesnt mean he only tithed once. Either once or twice is not even the issue here. The point is "HE TITHED"

Giving a tenth to the king was a custom.Was it a spiritual principle when the kings took the tithe?

. Melchizedek was merely a king? . How carnal of you? Melchizedek didn't recieve tithe as a king . He recieved tithes as high priest of that generation. Jesus was ranked with this guy.

Hebrews 5:10
For remember that God has chosen him to be a High Priest with the same rank as Melchizedek.
11 There is much more I would like to say along these lines, but you don't seem to listen, so it's hard to make you understand.

Where's is it in the bible that kings took tithes. I will like to know how many David recieved .

^^^^
That wasn't the point . Several hundreds were healed ,that's only a clip of a meeting. There are other testimonies which carry such. Such as the one below.

[flash=400,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wagKWnYRjSg&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/flash]

goshen360:
This is the KEY to understand Matthew 23 vs 23. Tithe teachers had taken verse 23 out of context.

Matthew 23:1-3

v1. Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples[/b)

v3. All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; [b]but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. (KJV)

v4. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. (NIV)

Then read verse 23 in context.

Jesus was recognizing ordained authority after the law of moses because he was still under the law during his days. Notice he told his disciples and the crowd, "DO NOT DO WHAT THEY DO" verse 3.

VERY CLEAR AND SIMPLE, IF THE PHARISEES AND TEACHERS OF THE LAW PAY TITHES, IN VERSE 23, JESUS WOULD BE SAYING TO HIS DISCIPLE NOT TO PAY TITHE AS IN VERSE 3.

Am out of here but might come back if need be. SHALOM !

Don't try to complicate the simple message of Jesus . His message was clear enough. He is simply saying "DONT BE HYPOCRITICAL" that's all. He wasn't talking about not tithing.

garyarnold:
were all of the people not also meant to tithe?

Of course not. ONLY those that inherited the promised land that had crops and/or animals to tithe from. NO ONE ELSE TITHED.

They were farmers . What land did Abraham inherit?. Tithe is based on spiritual principle. It doesn't have to go with Jewish law. We offer prayers don't we? Do we have to face Jerusalem to pray as the Jews? No. Prayer is based on principle. We don't get into the noisy gritty and petty petty aspect of such.

The reason the Jews give first fruit was different from why Abel gave first fruits. They gave theirs to mark their exodus and arrival in promise land but Abel didn't have any exodus . The major thing there is that first rut is a principle .

Abraham offered animals as sacrifice , we don't offer animals . We offer other things . The principle there is that offering is required in worship. So dont ask me about wave offerings ,peace offerings and heave offering.

That is carnal. The issue about the giving is not the substance ,but the heart. Is baptism and communion not spiritual . Yet we do them physically . Because it is not about the bread and drink. That's how a carnal mind sees it. But the principles it stands for.

See Paul's comment on physical giving and how he related it to spirttual sacrifice

Philippians 4:18
18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.

What is gboko" a sinner is a sinner. Lead him to salvation .

Grey Beard:
@
If I join your church can I sell the ROR that I buy (sorry, pay for)?

Afterall, it costs money to print right? So if CE are making back the money they spent then shouldn't I be able to do so too? Or is it that I should give out of my own cash while the church itself does not

Keep your money, it's your soul that is Gods primary concern.

Sweetnecta:
@Joagbaje: I listened to the woman and the few arabic words she uttered. I do not want to say that she was wrong in pronunciation. I will let others say that. What she said can be picked up in the community of Yorubas, anywhere in Yoruba land. We know non muslims who can recite Surah Fatiha, so say walaihi summa bIllahi aliazim is not a sign of being Muslim.

So what's your point? Why would she lie ? . It's a sick person that knows shes healed. The pastor didn't pronounce her healed. He didn't pray for her. Jesus healed her. Is that hard?

Let us assume she was a muslim. There is no medical proof that she is healed, already. More importantly, it is her lack of faith that will drag her to such a gathering

Her medical records were there. Didn't you hear it? I guess you're a Muslim right? Is that why you don't want to believe

After all there are Christians who are sick, still. Even prophet Job was sick. Is sickness enough reason to switch religion? How many babalawo have healed non muslims? Healing is not enough for a wise person to leave a religion, finding One God that must be obeyed is the only reason. We do know that the concept that a God dies is enough to abandon him. After all that should have been a healing so as no death occurs.

We are not saying Islam is a religion or sickness. The point is . Jesus is so loving , he even heal a Muslim .Haleluyah

goshen360:
For those who said Tithes is being taught out of revelation the pastor received. THIS IS HERESY AND FALSEHOOD. EVERY REVELATION IS ROOTED IN BIBLICAL TRUTH AND ANY REVELATION THAT IS NOT GROUNDED IN THE TRUTH IS FALSEHOOD AND IT IS TAUGHT OUT OF GREED OR TAUGHT AS "WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING" TEACHING.

Don't manipulate dear . Revelation is not a personal thing. It simply means understanding of Gods word.  You're trying to make it sound as if revelation refers to a man seeing vision in the night.

Tithing is not based on personal revelation but it's a spiritual principle in God. And as other spiritual principles . They are for ever. Such as honoring your parents, prayer, worship, offerings,

The issue of personal revelation has to do with different convictions based on Gods word. Everybody has a right to what he persuaded by.

Some eat meat offer to idols others feel its not right. You have no right to judge another mans conviction. That' will be manipulation . What makes you feel your own understanding is the correct one. Hope you get the point. Pls try meditate on the scripture below.

Romans 14:2-6
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

If we all abide with the word of God there should be no contention. It is the spirit that quickeneth. Let's not get in the flesh in winning argument .

Was Melchizedek a descendant of Levi?

There are different kinds of prayers . That's what determine how short or how long. Such as prayer of faith, intercession,worship,imprecations,agreement, supplication,meditation, etc.

Most people see prayer as "asking God something. The primary purpose of prayer is fellowship with God . When you see is that way you start learning how to stay longer. There's a place for short prayer and there's place for devotion. Every christian must learn to pray long. Speaking in tongues alone may take you some 30 minutes to an hour daily (which I wil recomend) . Not to talk of worship, meditation etc. and there's place for intercession. Where you pray for others . Actually every christian ought to first be an intercessor.

1 Timothy 2:1-2
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

So you wake up early , 4 or 5am if you put these things to work ,you would have spent at least an hour or two in prayer. Praying about your need comes last.

The short prayer thing are like the appetizers . In between meals. You may do them randomly during the day. In toilet, bus stops . Or when sme issue arise. The short prayer should never take the place of devotional fellowship.

GOD DELIVER ME FROM THIS FAITHLESS GENERATION

Names are for incorporation. Don't judge a book by the cover. You judge by doctrines and by scriptures.

^^^
So which minister did that? Can you mention any?