₦airaland Forum

Dulcet7:
Does this mean when a man who does not know Christ searches for God, God does not bring the man to himself? Do you have examples, because I have contrary examples?

That's a different thing. If a man search for God genuinely , God creates opportunity to send the word to him. But when a man engages himself in religious activities and expect to be saved by those activities at the neglect of Gods plan of salvation, He is pursuing God where God is not. Cornelius was a religious man. But he would not be saved in that religious life. God had to send the Word to him .he finally came out of religion and embrace the life.

Does this mean there are no Christians who have ever pulled out?

A man can't pull out.because he is born into Christ. The way out of birth is by death. He has to die(spiritually) not to be a christian again. And it takes demonic invasion for that to take place. You don't switch in and out.

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  Now this is hilarious! Check out Pastor AIO's risible sarcasm. As Enigma said, the Bible clearly states that religion can be pure and undefiled. I don't see how that can intersect with evil.

I just can't find a way to reconcile
1. Devil: (Judeo-Christian and Islamic religions) chief spirit of evil and adversary of God; tempter of mankind; master of Hell
and
2. Religion: A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny

and conclude that Religion is of the Devil. I have tried, and I can't!!  

Does this mean that all of man's pursuit of the divine ends up in the "evil arms of the devil"? How will this relationship with God begin if religion is of the devil?  

What do you have to say, Joagbaje et al?

Remember James has his issues with his choice of words. He is the only one who use such words. He meant well. And I understand his point . The word "spiritual" would rather have been more appropriate than "religious" that's what paul would use. James still had issues with Jewish religion even as a christian.  Religion has to do with outward conducts etc. There of course physical part of Christianity. But chritianity is not the outward decoration. But an inward life which reflects outwardly. A religious man can have good feeling based on some good deed. But it doesn't change the state of the man.

To be a christian is to recieve the nature of God and letting the God life on the inside manifest.  But religion deals with the outward and wants to be accepted by God by it.

Psalm 67:2TLB 
Send us around the world with the news of your saving power and your eternal plan for all mankind

What an inspiring prayer offered here by David! He prays to God to send us around the world with His Gospel – the news of His saving power, and His eternal plan for all mankind. He wants everyone to hear about it. God has a plan for all mankind but not everybody knows about it, and that’s why he prayed to God to send us around the world to tell them. Has it dawned on you that this is your mission in this world? God wants you to fulfill this mission and carry out His vision in the earth.

Many live without a sense of purpose. You’re on a mission in the earth, to do God’s work. So don’t live as though you’ve got a permanent residence in this world. It explains the reason people fight for lands, properties, and even kill for the mundane and trivial things of life; they haven’t realized that they’re on a journey in this world. The oil, diamonds, gold and minerals in the world have nothing to with the reason God brought you to this world. He brought you here to establish His Kingdom through you; that’s your mission; to burn with the urgency and fervency of heart to preach the Gospel.

You have a job here on earth; it’s called soul winning. You don’t ask “can I do it?” You do it, for that’s why you’re here. That’s why you’re growing in Christ; that’s why you’re learning the Word; it’s so you can become effective in life as a soul winner. Nothing could be more honorable and worthy of eternal reward than a lifestyle that’s dedicated to soul winning. You’re responsible for those in your sphere of contact; they’re your field of operation! You’re to reach them and touch them with the news of God’s saving power, and unveil to them His eternal purpose for their lives.

It’s God’s eternal purpose to save, heal and deliver all men into their inheritance in Christ. As His Children, we’re His missionaries commissioned to take this message of His saving power to the ends of the earth. This is not optional; it’s your compulsory Christian service. If you’re not in on it, it means something is wrong. The prayer of David in our opening verse was consummated when Jesus ascended to heaven and sent us the Holy Spirit to be with us and live in us. Consequently, you’ve been empowered by the Spirit to fulfill your missionary assignment of taking the news of God’s saving power to the ends of the earth.

Prayer
I’m alive to my divine responsibility as a missionary of the Gospel, commissioned and empowered by the Spirit to bring men and women in my world into their inheritance in Christ. I ask O Lord, that you guide my heart by your wisdom to speak a word in season to a weary soul today, a word that’ll bring salvation and strength, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study
2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Mark 16:15
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

ALADE4J2:
I don't think there is anything wrong in calling your pastor "daddy" or :our father in the Lord". I do agree that there is really a very thin line between respecting and worship men of God. After all, God says in the Bible that we should believe in His prophets so that we will prosper.
Not all the so called men of God are real, but they few ones out there deserves our respect (not worship: God says my glory shall no man share). You shall no them by their fruit.

beula2009:
when the members starts treating him as an idol. especially the xtians who seeks nor know not the truth.

The bible is clear on the honour bestowed on men of God . Some who may not understand that aspect of the bible call it idolatory. But we shouldn't look at the church by personal opinion. The fact that you submit to a minister as a father in the lord does not mean he has taken the place of God.God word itself says to submit to them.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

But when people put their hope in a man of God and would not study scriptures for themselves Or can't pray or develop a relationship with Gods spirit just because they have a G.O. Praying for them for everything. That is idolatry . That is not submission but ignorance.

Religion to a great extent has has to do with man search for God. but christ is Gods way of bringing man to himself. religion has to do with conducts but christianity is a life .You can join a religion and pull out . but you are born into christ , it is a life, a nature . God living through a man.

huxley:
Can one serve god too much?

MBA

Can one pray too much?

MBA

Can one pay too much tithes?

VERY MBA!

If god notices that one is serving him too much would he (god) intervene and ask the worshipper to take a break?

No. Moses was going to kill himself for God due to lack of administrative wisdom .God didn't stop him. It is our responsibility to yield to wisdom

Is there some kind of limit beyond which anything done to serve god becomes excessive and dangerous?

Not at all. But lack of wisdom that can result in such things No but one can have such result through the lack of wisdom. For example. Moses was over stretching himself and the people because he lacked the wisdom to delegate

Would god warn you when you have reached and exceeded that limit?

He sends his word. We have the responsibility to embrace it.

Take the case of people who have damaged their health or even died fasting in a bid to serve god - did they overdo it?  Or was their death a just reward for a prayerful servant of god?

We are not fasting for God. He doesn't get anything by our fasting. We serve God with prayers, the fasting is to aid our prayer by fine-tuning our hearts and spirit. Fasting must be led of Gods spirit. Someone may be fasting in the flesh and thinks he is serving God. But it's merely starvation and waste of time.

It depends on your mode of taking it back. If you scale the fence or pass through window,,

John, why were you pulling clothes and running after the danger was over? .

The events of the book of revelation can not start until after the rapture of the church.

newmi:
Ephesians 4:12
"For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ"
This scripture actually reads for the perfecting of the saints, so the saints will do the work of ministry by so doing the body of Christ is edified.

My sincere question is: What is THE WORK OF MINISTRY.

The work of ministry has to do with being part of Gods purpose. From my understanding. there are two sides.
1. Reaching the world for Jesus. through corporate and personal witnessing.
2.Edifying the church.

So what is wrong in fleecing ? if the sheep is not fleeced , they wont grow new wool. dont your baber fleece your hair ? do you run out of hair. thesame with christian giving. the more we give, the more we recieve.

@ newmi
Nice post jare.

God didnt make you father christmas.you cant meet everybodys need. as much as there is "BEARING ONE ANOTHERS BURDEN" We should however not encourage laziness. it is said that "Its better to teach a man how to fish than giving him fishes" so we must strike the ballance.
when it comes to Giving, as well as any work of ministry, we must be led of the spirit. you do what God ask you to do. you help who God wants you to help. It is wrong for any christian to put his hope on another person. everybody must walk by faith. God didnt create a christian to be a beggar.

You use my bullet to shoot at me. I will respond soon

Zikkyy:
Which one be ignorance again

The word of God is full of principles of prosperity. When a christian lack knowledge he will work against these principles. For example a christian buys anything that comes his way without restrain , he lacks financial discipline. He will soon be broke.
Paul says all things are lawful but,
1 Corinthians 6:12
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

So a reckless spender will run broke. But a spiritual man has discipline . He goes after necesities only. Some other people are lazy. But a man that knows the word will be diligent in business's. Then some don't give , and if you don't give you will lack the grace of receiving. So all are connected to knowing Gods word and doing it.

Some of these guys are in church sunday to saturday listening to pastor saying they are ignorant is an indication pastor has been preaching the wrong stuff

so Why would a pastor teach wrong stuff. What is the wrong stuff.

ignorance of the word of God make christians lack. This can result in lack of Faith ,Lack of giving, lack of financial discipline and laziness

I hope he wont build an ifa shrine tommorow. Thats babylon. mother of all religion

wetu:
The early apostles had the special status of being with the apostles who were commissioned by the Lord. Their apostleship cannot be compared to today's apostles.

i dont think that should be a yardstick of apostleship. Apostleship should be apostlehip. but i agree there is category.

THE APOSTLE jesus was the only one in this cathegory. he was not just an apostle but was called THE APOSTLE
THE TWELVE APOSTLES:        These were called and commidsioned by jesus ,Judas inclusive.
THE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB: As above but excluding judas. their office is forever. even in the new jerusalem
FOUNDATIONAL APOSTLES:    This includes the former  apostles like Paul. They laid the foundation of the church
OTHER APOSTLES:                  This includes every other post ascension apostle in the early church age some were not so popular.
PRESENT DAYS APOSTLES:     They are as anointed as the other apostles ,but they are building on the works of the earlier apostles.

Evil day will come upon every person. It's a day when the devil come visiting . It comes in circles. From time to time. That's why a christian have to be decorated in his military gear every day.

Ephesians 6:11
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

To police or to God?

The Dogs are different. did you lose 2 dogs?

yommyuk:
There are 2 different sides to this.

1. I can truly say that less than 1 percent  know/heard of CEC and all of the AFRICAN churches in the West especailly UK. Only 5% of the indegnious people, if not less go to chruch anyway. I never heard about CEC until 2007 thru a congolese I met at a bustop while going to work. I live in a neigbourhood where there are less than 10 black out of about 30k. Probably if I met him in Places like London, I might still  being in the dark concerning CEC. Even KICC with a membership of about 12k does not have up to 100(50 maybe) whites as members (Less than 1 percent). So r they really taking over the world and territories? But when these organisations preach on TV, they give the impression as if David Cameron is a member.

Secondly, the anglican church is very effective in every community (especailly with the older generation). You will be shocked  of the good they do. Can this be said of these so called AFRICAN churches who show who rent up every disused building in abandoned industrial estates. All they do is show up in a community, play holy holy holy within the church walls ,go outside show off and drive off. The Local people will be left wondering? what the heck?

Christainity is not all about preaching the WORD AND HEALing, it is about meeting personal needs in the local community hence leaving a legacy.

2. On the other side, most of these african churches are majorly good for networking.  At least you are with your own kind. They do have their benefits, but more needs to be done. They really need to engage the local population more, which is very hard. Most white people  find it uncomfortable going to a blackmans church. Some of them go out of boredom or because they may find a black gf who needs paper (meaning sexual exploits).

Check out TD JAKE or  CREFLOR Dollars, how may whilte folks do you see/find in their congregation on TV in the USA? Even the muslims are beating us hands down in this respect.

That is why every one of us should get involved in the spreading of the gospel to every person in our world. And reaching every race.

wetu:
I think we are getting back to the topic:

If there are modern day apostles, what exactly is their function? And how do they know that they are apostles?


We have seen that the early apostles were with Jesus or with the apostles that were with Jesus. Paul seems to suggest that an apostle is one who has seen the Lord. And the Lord seemed to suggest that an apostle is one whom He has sent directly, as the Father has sent Him. We also know that the early apostles laid the foundation of the Church.

I would say then that the modern day apostle is someone chosen by God in an extraordinary way to take the gospel to previously unreached nations. Ezekiel Guti from Zimbabwe fits this description very much.

One more thing. An apostle must have the signs of an apostle (2 Corinthians 12:12).

Romans 16:7
There were several apostles in the early church that much were not spoken about . Paul mentioned few in some of his epistles.
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Paul saw Jesus by vision . Many people today also see Jesus by vision. That alone will not suffice as proof of apostle ship. The assignment or commission upon that person and miracles are proof .

nuclearboy:
@Jo:
Biblically? Or according to your own standards? Lets use the standards with which you judged pastor chris to be an "apostle".
What is Odulele? He too pastored, had crowds, taught them, prophesied etc. What is Oyedepo? How about Adeboye or even Adegboye? Or the CAC agbala itura one? Or samson ayorinde? Or anyone else who built a church?

BECAUSE you have basically said anyone who like your pastor, set up (pastor), taught (teacher), evangelized to crowds (evangelist) and prophesied IS AN apostle.

Of course there are other apostles in our day. As long as there Is holy spirit in the world. I may not know the details of the people you called. I know archbishop idahosa was an apostle. Kennth hagin was an apostle but not a pastor. Smith wigglesworrth was an apostle . An apostle is a man sent by God to the body of christ especially with a special message. There are supernatural signs that which endorse their ministry. It is not a prophet that endorse them but the signs.

2 Corinthians 12:12
12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Of course we can deny the fact that some people just bear the title "apostle" without understanding. Even in with garment churches.

Joagbaje:
It's not about pastor chris. You are the one making issue out of pastor chris. Let's discuss biblically and leave personalities out. Wetu didn't mention name of any modern day apostle. I didn't either until you showed up. Now you're turning it around .

I agree with you. Someone may prophesy and not called into a prophetic office.
But you should that someone can have more than One grace or gift. One can function under a particular grace more than others. A man may be more of a teacher than an evangelist but yet called into he two offices.

nuclearboy:
I knew this was and had to be all about pastor chris, the 21st century "apostolic" "god". Loyalty to that man is Joagbaje's calling,

It's not about pastor chris. You are the one making issue out of pastor chris. Let's discuss biblically and leave personalities out. Wetu didn't mention name of any modern day apostle. I didn't either until you showed up. Now you're turning it around .

God is not concerned about wears. He created man naked . We dress for people. There different dressing for different occasion . You may wear tight swim suit at the beach or swimming pool . But it will be in appropriate to wear it to work. So it's an issue of ethics. It's for man . Not for God.

It's evident . He is not just a pastor of a church. He is an apostle to the body of christ. He is a teacher . He is an evangelist (the large crowd and soul won are proof) he is also a prophet. He had predicted many things which came to pass such as the economic melt down. He gave the exact date it will start as far back as 2001. And now he said it will take 7 years for full recovery. But those who dwell in Gods word will prosper in the midst of the crisis.

wetu:
I see he also keeps editing his posts because he posted before thinking.

Act 8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

I didn't post before thinking. I didn't read your post well initially. But when I read your post again and saw that part I saw that you were right. So I modified.

nuclearboy:
^^ His point is that his pastor (the honorable most holy MOG) is also an apostle who is also his own prophet and needs no other "certification" except his own mouth. He is also a "god", by the way! Any dissenting view will come under attack and not from just him.

You are not too far from the truth. Pastor chris is an apostle ,yes. Not only an apostle. He has the five fold ministry. Evangelist,teacher,Pastor and prophet. But we have others who have prophetic gifts in CEC.

I'd name them but I have a slight headache

You can lay hands on it . Command it to go.

wetu:
By the way Paul's apostleship was confirmed by Ananias and by the apostles of the Lamb, no modern day apostle can claim the same.

Paul only took silas as a companion when he had a disagreement with Barnabas . So who was his prophet before silas showed up?

But what is your point, my brother?

my point is that there is mo such rule that an apostle needs a prophet. But the church needs them. The prophets are gifts to the church and not gifts to an apostle. So when you say moder days apostles are in error for not having a prophet, it's not a true statement. Barnabas was not a prophet. He was known as an apostle by many scholars. He left paul and took John Mark. But was John Mark a prophet? No.  Paul had the five fold ministry.

thehomer:
What's wrong with you? Homosexuals are attracted to humans of the same sex not other animals so what's the relevance of this comparison?

Take it easy. Homosexuality, lesbianism and bestiality are all forms of sexual perversion according to the bible. Thats why I grouped them together. Na thesame papa born them. DEMONS.

There is no indication that he took sillas along on the ground of prophetic office. Remember Paul himself was a prophet. And I can't remember silas doing prophetic service throughout pauls ministry. All the prophecy came from paul