₦airaland Forum

nuclearboy:
@Joagbaje:

2 things!

1. NBC never said anybody show not show miracles. What they said was that they would verify any such claims. Since that day, your pastor chris disappeared from miracle shows in Nigeria and up till today, any miracles shown are not under NBC jurisdiction. Yet you say NBC verified his miracles. Why are you lying to yourself? Why did he run away if they verified his miracles?

2.You didn't answer my question. You just evaded it totally and answered what nobody asked you - read above again.

Just a poser - do you believe God is true and EVERYMAN is a liar? E V E R Y M A N ? ?

Initially they said there should be no miracles at all.That went on for years. But they could show native doctors and traditional medicines Whose cure can't be verified . But We prayed, and last year we heard that the law has been changed. Some stations are still afraid of NBC to showcase the miracle testimonies. We had to lay hold on the NBC code to show some of these stations that the Code has been changed. Many of them have started airing them. We didn't run. We have countless of them.

nuclearboy:
Joagbaje:
Please are you Gombs? There is reason for my question & I speak to you only in this

I'm not Goms pls. If I will ever have to have a new I.D. I will still maintain my colors and style in scriptural quotations. But I pray I will not have a reason to.

frosbel:
What is important to you as a Christian?

[size=14pt]
MONEY or HOLINESS ?[/size]
"No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." Matthew 6:24

Take note of the highlight . Having money to give ,to serve God and help others is not "SERVING money" . But Inability to give is SERVING MONEY. Is there any scripture where God says he hates to proper his people. None! . Rather we have hundreds of scriptures that confirm Gods pleasure in blessing people. 

Psalms 35:27
27 . . .Let the Lord be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.


God does not against a man having riches , he does not want a man to put trust in riches.

1 Timothy 6:17
17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

It's a man that has that can help others .a poor man cant help anybody, not even himself.

1 Timothy 6:18
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

I think we have to be clear on what we call prosperity.  Those who criticise prosperity are looking at things from wrong perspective. I don't believe in materialism. Prosperity is different from materialism. That's why they always end up in hypocrisy . You say a man that wears silk suit is materialistic and you are wearing thesame.

There is a clear difference between prosperity and materialism. What you guys should condemn is materialism and not prosperity. God wants us to prosper. Prosperity is having more than enough to bless others. The focus of our prosperity is the need in the world and the need in the gospel. It is not about eating with gold plates, but by being empowered to bless your world. Even though we know that nothing is too expensive for God to give us. We don't use our faith for such things. A spiritual man is concerned about giving and giving, not eating and eating. But you cant give if you don't have. You must have to give.

Pastor AIO:
I think that once we accept the notion of inherited sin and we accept that Jesus had ancestry, even though the ancestry is only through Mary, then we are in a difficult position. Why? Well if Jesus is without sin then how comes he didn't inherit the sins we all inherited via Mary. That one is going to take some hefty theologising to explain.

Perhaps something along the lines of Jesus was born with congenital sin too, but it was washed away when he got baptised by John the baptist. Or it was washed away soon after his birth. Or somehow somehow the inheritance was blocked from being passed on from Mary to Jesus via some screening method.
It would interest me to see some theology on this. Any takers?

Jesus didn't get life from mary. Sin flows in the blood. Jesus didn't have Joseph blood neither Marys blood. The blood of a baby comes from the father sperm and not from the mother. His blood was neutral . It had no sin nature. He was like the first Adam . A neutral man. Thats why God called him a second Adam. The blood in him was a new neutral human blood and not the sinful blood of fallen man.

chukwudi44:
unfortunately one can never become a christian until you are born again by the renewing water of baptism and of the holy spirit.Technically speaking,there is nothing like unborn again christians,it is either you are a born again christian or simply not a christian

mabell:
Stop spreading the wrong gospel
You can be a christian and not be born again.

Mabel chukwudi seems to be more correct than you here o. How can someone be born again without being a christian. A man that is not born again is not a christian. That's the point chukwudi was making. But the issue now should be what is the definition of "BORN AGAIN" from his perspective and yours.

@chukwudi
But water baptism is not what brings salvation. I know he based his point on John 3

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


But the water being referred to here is not water baptism. Remember that the Jew already had a water baptism by John, Jesus was refering to the word of God as water as in other scriptures.

Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

John 4:14
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Baptism was a ceremonial washing . But the washing of the word is the agency for salvation. Baptism is only required after a man has been saved.

1 Corinthians 1:17
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel. . . ,

Remember the Epileptic boy that became deaf in one ear. Pastor chris said epilepsy is a demon, and he cast out the devil. The Boy said "I FELT IT"

LoveKing:
But hey, Lets be realistic in thinking here. Is there any need for an healing school? Did the Apostles erect healing schools? Did the prophets of old run healing schools? please can someone point out an example of an healing school in the bible?

Forget the name. Look at the principles. when Jesus went to his home town, he couldn't do much miracle because of their unbelief. So Jesus went about their cities preaching ,teaching and healing. The antidote for unbelief is teaching.that is what the healing school is about. Teaching people to have faith to be healed

Acts14:7
And there they preached the gospel. 8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: 9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

nuclearboy:
.

@Jo:

You say the majority that "believe" receive? Yet you haven't confirmed one independently since the days of SirJohn's thread. Not EVEN one! Just claims and a desire that everyone believes you.

We have several cases . AFF programme on TV are full of verified testimonies sanctioned by NBC. I know 2couples that had no child for years after marriage . They went for the healing school, and their wives took in the following month. One 15 years if marriage the other about 4years or so. Numerous testimonies.

When you say healing is to draw men to God for salvation, I want to believe you are joking? Are you then finally admitting that it is because of what you can get that you are serving God? Because you are basically saying you use the promise of healing to "lure" people to come. Do you realize what you just posted again? Please clarify so I can show you the error in this and if you will, let us know if this is the position of your pastor.

The primary purpose of any programme is salvation of men. That's the greatest miracle . When people see miracles , they believe in him . The Jesus that can heal is the person to follow.  

John 2:23
23 . . many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

Look at the mammoth crowd that gave their hearts to the lord! Over 50,000 souls! Even the 15,000 free bibles that was to be distributed became too few . I can see Jesus rejoicing in heaven and Satan weeping!

EarsWide:
Bishop Charlatan in one of the videos I saw was saying people should not borrow money - and he was going on and on.

Fair enough, but why are his churches in London and New York collecting donations with credit cards ?

If he really believed in the crap he was spewing he would make sure people did not use credit for donations. Abi ?

Don't quote out of context. Jesus borrowed donkey . But the for the credit card issue, people hare not taxed for donations, so if they give cash, it is not recorded as donations. But with the credit card, they won't be taxed . I hope I didn't get it mixed up.

nuclearboy:
And now because there is nothing to say, it has become an appeal to give God a "chance" first? Even before going to hospital.  

Medical treatment is for a level of cases. Someone who doesn't feed well may take food supplement and some vitamins. We call it drugs. A man may experience cold because of lack of vitamin C. Taking citrus fruits like oranges may solve the problem . (Azibalua correct me if I'm wrong)

We don't generalise sicknesses. They have different origins .Paul told timothy to take wine for medicinal purpose. 

1 Timothy 5:23
23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

It depends on the level of faith of the individuals. Even though Jesus said "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word of God"(Luke 4:4)  

A christian that gets wounded may require first Aids. But he ought to lay hands on that thing first and pronounce healing before medical. Even as at that,Having faith in medicine only is carnality . 

That's why God was angry with king Asa.

2Chronicles 16:12
 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease [was] exceeding [great]: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians. 13 And Asa slept with his fathers, and died. . . 

God created medicine for a level of life. There is a higher level of life. Beyond all these . That's where we should desire to function.

Demons are responsible for most sicknesses , when they are cast out , healing can take place.

Mark 16:17 
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Na wa O - people should just come, at all costs, whether necessary or not, whether applicable or not. The crusades should just be full so crowds can be shown on TV/satellite and whist the innocent people are waiting for the miracle that MAY or MAY NOT come (since its their faith), they should loosen their purse strings. That one does NOT require faith. Just drop the money, thank you. And if you die because you delayed getting medical care, its your faith that was not strong enough.

Everybody may not be healed , but the majority that believe receive. That is why the word of God is taught first so that people can have faith to be healed . The primary purpose for such programmes is not even the healing. It is the salvation of men. The healing is to draw men to God for salvation.

It's true that many ailment came by natural cause . Such as accidents etc. Satan is still responsible for most sickneses .Cases such as ulcer, cancer, blindness have been healed by the power of God. There is a different between a man that became deaf by puncturing his hear drum and a man that became Deaf by spirit of deafness But the power of God still heals them all. The ailment that come by natural causes may require medical attention but it's still advisable to deal with it by prayer first before medicine. Prayer can speed up medical treatment. Healing anointing can handle such too. God created human body to be able to repair itself. What slows down the body immune system ? The word of God is applicable in all cases according to the faith of individual

nuella2:
, giving is not kapukapu. God is not a gambler, abi na bribery and corruption?

What is kapukapu ?  or you meant kalo kalo.

IknowHim:
Spokesman Wayne Minnaar said many worshippers for the Night Of Bliss Catholic prayer, which starts at 6pm and finishes at 5am on Saturday, arrived overnight and slept outside the stadium.

What do you mean by catholic prayer? Or was it a mistake?

What about children that didnt get healed why didn't a good  God heal them. Why did Hod allow children to be attacked by the devil? Why didn't he prevent it.

Elisha prophesied for a barren woman to have a son. So we can say the child was a special gift from God. But one day the child was struck dead. Why didn't God prevent the special child from that attack. The woman faith had to swing into action before the man of God btought him back .We are in a wicked world . Ghats why the head of a home has to be spiritual so that his umbrella can cover his home. It's the devil that comes to steal and kill and destroy. God won't  stop him. Our faith can resist him

James 4:7
7 Submit  yourselves  to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

1 Pet 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith. .

The pastor has the duty to teach his congregation the Word. That word is what they need to reign over every work of the devil. Sickness, poverty and sin.

The pastor is not called to spoon feed people. The early church at the initial stage due to persecution , shared all things together and eat together because they were in hiding. But that was an abnormal situation. Things changed later.

2Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

Ephesians 4:28
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with [his] hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.


Some brethren are lazy, this is not Gods will. Thats why a pastor sometimes organise business seminar,empowerment seminar. Teaching the brethren how to start business. Some are bad financial managers , they are taught how to handle money. You don't have to be expensive to look nice. But now if a pastor announce business seminars. Some people that don't know the motive will start criticising. "Money in the house if God ? What is church turning into?"

A pastor is a gift to a congregation to perfect Them in family, business, time management and ministry work. To make them totally productive in life?

Romans 12:11
11 Never be lazy in your work, but serve the Lord enthusiastically.

nuclearboy:
^^ Sorry but what did you say or answer above? A child is ill and you say God healed her but the Merciful Gracious Almighty God punished the lack of faith of parents BY KILLING an innocent child? Are you people human at all and do you even know the Character of a Loving Father or do you simply see God as an ATM machine with no feelings?

If you have no sensible response, why not keep quiet? Your response above is the type that gets you into the type of trouble you want to avoid and makes you quietly ask for peace whist openly ridiculing yourselves and the Name of the Heavenly Father.

I never said God punished them or killed the child. The Devil is the one responsible. God doesn't punish anyone. I don't know the details of Cerrullo case . I only said such thing is possible. There are people you can carry your faith because they can't have faith. A man in comma, a man with mental case, or a child that is not up to accountability to know God personally.

In a crusade or church service when a healing anointing is working, someone who is not born again do get healed sometimes . Thats what I'm referring to. Especially if their case is demonically related. When a minister rebukes devils of infirmity , the demons comes out of many that may not even be saved as yet. These parts are operations of the holy spirit. Sometimes he does his one thing to the amazement of everyone . There are cases where someone that didn't expect a healing gets a surprise gift. If any of such people were not saved, the first thing is to lead them to christ. If not when the devil comes back ,the dont have legal ground to resist the invasion.

That is why it's important when someone gets healed, he has to be led to christ immediately, and he should be nurtured in the word of God. To build their faith. As unsaid , i can't speak for the cerulo case.

God is not responsible for sickness. Satan is the enemy. It doesn't have to happen. But it can. The devil always look for ways to come back if he can't get another person to enter.

Luke 11:24 
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. 25 And when he cometh, he findeth [it] swept and garnished. 26 Then goeth he, and taketh [to him] seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and 

We resist the devil, children can't have faith. The spiritual person arround them should .

nuclearboy:
^^ You, Joagbaje, keep saying it is more blessed to give than to receive but once the issue of 'pastors' comes up, you are quick to say Paul received and above you justify the Corinthian experience. Basically then, your mien is that pastors are to receive so that the world can be blessed. But this is totally unscriptural.

You are wrong  about this because I have often said every pastor ought to first be a giver. Is it every pastor that has a car? Or money. I have  always said  If a pastor doesnt give , he will be broke. He is first a christian. Every christian must be a giver.

Why cannot your pastors give to the congregation or to society? Why is it the poor lowly congregation that is pushed to give? Why cannot pastor chris give to the poor by telling his congregation to bless the poor directly

Don't say what you don't know. How many of his message have you listened  to.  He has talked about helping the poor several times. He has special passion for less priviledged children. He has over 500 of them in lagos alone on scholarship accommodation and daily feeding. The number is increasing by the day. And he encouraged us all to do the same. Saying some of us would have turned out to be on the street like those less privilege children but we were fortunate to have someone help us, But these children should be fortunate to have people like us "

reducing the number of white cars following him around??

What White cars? where does he drive to?

Why does he have to be responsible for disbursements for his congregation?
Are they "silly"/"wicked"/etc that they cannot see & know the needy themselves? Or is there something he gains by making sure their money passes through his hands before it "gets" to the poor and needy?

What disbursement ? Does he disburse money? He has never stopped anyone from giving to the needy. He rather preaches it.

As I have said to you often, Paul said "All things are lawful, but not all are expedient". Why is it suddenly expedient that all monies go through pastoral hands? Why is Paul disregarded in CEC when money is concerned? Which is more important - the words your "Apostle to the Gentiles" spoke OR cold hard cash?

I'm not aware pastor chris collect money to disburse. The ministry is too big for all that. He has people to handle such ministrations if there is need . And if he does it personally, you should rather see it as humility . Paul collected money for disbursement .  What do you say about this scripture?

1Corintians16:1
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first [day] of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as [God] hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. 3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by [your] letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. 4 And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.

And PLEASE, stop thinking this is about pastor chris - he means almost less than grass to me. This is about Truth AND God Almighty - any man is less than sand before these.

It's about him, because you ought to have gotten proper information before you criticise. You don't know the sacrifice and work many are doing.

BTW, your people come here and say people have poverty consciousness and are poor etc. Then they tell us they climb Okadas daily. Later, they say it is only because they wanted to win "Souls" that they climbed okadas! Who is being fooled? You leave your Rolls-Royce & climb Okada? Do you people know the world is watching & laughing? We KNOW the truth! The world knows the truth. All the insolent rudeness about poverty is just a reflection of the lives of the paupers who like to project their own lack upon others. Tell your "goats" to stop it - the kingdom of God is not about partying or meat and drink. Your people have exposed themselves as living on hope and in desperation.

Every christian is supposed to go out and preach the gospel. CEC members that go all out to preach on the street ,in buses, taxi should be commended. That is Christianity. A christian that doesnt preach to others about Jesus is not productive in the kingdom. They are ashamed of him. You should rather get inspired by their testimonies.

Mark 8:38
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Romans 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.







[quote][/quote]

@enigma

Enigma:
In the video, Cerullo asked the little girl to do some running on the stage; he asked her if she felt any pain, she said no; Cerullo then declared that she had been healed of cancer of the bone. However, read the quote below for the final outcome.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Cerullo
So please explain to us how this poor FOUR year old girl was healed but lost her healing!

Enigma:
And the four year old girl? How was she to "resist the devil"?
Who in their right minds would put an onus on a 4 (FOUR) year old to "retain their healing"?
And don't give us further nonsense that the people around her should do it on their behalf. The bottom line is that the "doctrine" of "retaining healing" is simply hogwash used for brainwashing the undiscerning!

The child can't be responsible to have faith. The responsibility is on the parent. Remember the case of the epileptic boy. Jesus held the father of the boy responsible to have faith for the boy.

Mark 9:23-24
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things [are] possible to him that believeth. 24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. 25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, [Thou] dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him. 26 And [the spirit] cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead. 27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.


parents faith would be responsible to keep it.

Pastor chris once had his daughter crippled suddenly at the age of 5. The doctors said she would never work again. But he took the responsibility everyday to confess the Word of God on her and declaring , "she will walk, she will,run ,she will jump". It took one week and suddenly she stood and began walking again.

I can't speak for cerullo case. But parents are responsible to have faith for children.

Azibalua:
Yes paul worked but he said

2 Corinthians 11:7
7 Did I do wrong and cheapen myself and make you look down on me because I preached God's Good News to you without charging you anything?

Paul didn't Mary either, he sees it as a distraction. But does that make it a law for every minister? We should know how to balance issues with word of truth. Paul only worked in corinth because of the carnal nature of the corithians. They don't like giving and paul didn't want anybody to look down on him there. He took money from other churches.

Another important announcement.
If you have a ticket and you for one reason or the other may not make it,Make sure you give another person. Since your seat is reserved.
And lastly. Don't Lose your ticket.

yommyuk:
Hmmmmm

Nice question: Looking at the queston in its context, "who is in the best postion to bless you; your parents or pastor?"

Meaning: who is in the best position currently to bless me?

Answer: My Parent.

why?

When I read thru the blessings Jacob pronounced on his sons in Genesis 49 and the blessing Aaron pronounced on the Israelites in Numbers 6, wasn't hard to choose.
check this out.

Jacob was a prophet. Israel was a nation chosen by God. They have Gods name upon them. Parents that are not born again have no blessing to offer. Their blessings are merely ceremonial . The pastoral blessing is divine. But christian parents have blessing in their mouths.

LoveKing:
@joagabje
i guess you are this simplymee. I see striking similarities.

But at the topic, i'll say the op is confused who to choose between the pastor and his/her parents. He/she may be questioning in his/her heart who has more relevance in my life. wtf? You will be a big fool if you say your pastor is 'lord' before your parents. BLOOD IS THICKER THAN WATER.

I am not him biko.

calculusx:
Nigerian Police!!!! b[b]ut the law says[/b] exception of Factory Tinted Glasses. If anyone argue this i have a copy of the publication. Nigerian Policemen doesn't know a customized ladipo tint from factory tint, i dey laugh ooooooooooooo

pls what law states this? i read an article from punch saying thesame thing ,but how can one prove it to police.

Agybabe:
Both of them r in d position 2 bless u n curse u. But if a parent blesses or curses u it has effect more dan d pastors blesinz or curse.
It only dpends on d 1 wich God honours d words of their mouth @ dat moment.
Destiny may/can b dlayed bt cn neva b denied.

NObody can curse a blessed man. But if someone walks outside the word , he may fall victim of curses.

Jesus used chartered boats and ship . Was it luxury or necessity? Before we criticise a minister we should find out his reasons. Did he buy it? Was it a gift. Creflo dollar got his first plane free from copeland. Idahosa was once offered a plane ,he rejected it, he didn't feel a need for it. Those who feel they needed plane what's their reason. I didn't say they are right. But how much honest enquiry have been made to find out about What they got.

It's a statement of fact that the love of money is root of all evil. That means that all evils linked to lust of money. Either it is prostitution or stealing.

But that is not thesame as, raising funds for gospel projects. The early church had reasons to raise money. Paul raised money. You simply use a biblical truth manipulatively to attack gospel work falsely.

^^^^
Life is a choice. Paul chose a life, his personal choice is not binding on others. Paul didn't marry. Does that make marriage wrong? Every christian must not be a millionaire . But at least they should be aware of what right they have .but to tell people that success or prosperity is of the devil is wrong. It is of God. And as a man is trusted to serve God with what he has , he receives more grace to have more.