₦airaland Forum

KunleOshob:
@joagbaje
You are a misreable and shameless liar, the scripture in proverbs I quoted had absolutely nothing to do with bribery when read in proper context

aletheia:

But seriously: Joagbaje can you show me in scripture where Abraham was promised the whole world? This world that I believe will be totally destroyed by fire. I am much interested in learning that please. Thanks for your response.

Jenwitemi:
Still dancing around, unsurprisingly. Let me help you here. Because the bible god gives the will to sin, HE IS THE ORIGIN OF SIN, THEN. Right, jo?

Jenwitemi:
Joagbaje, the artful dodger. You did not even make the attempt to address the core question. Let me remind you one more time what that question is; IF THERE WAS NO SIN PRIOR TO LUCIFER, WHERE DID THE SINFUL THOUGHT TO DEPOSE GOD COME FROM? Simple. Please, respond properly this time and quit the sidestepping.

mayrho:
why is this they just come to church and mime some CD and half of the church myself inclusive just struggle to follow with the projector.

Its nice to av a foreign songs but why would any church just not sing naija songs.
It makes service boring and stereotypical.

its like no church at least no of the ones I av attended sing or worship with Indigenous Nigerian songs

Also wud love to know if there any churches where they sing indigenous songs[b] i need to feel worship[/b].

mummykia:
It is actually scriptural to give to the Men of God. Problem is that most of them are greedy - asking us to give them even our own portion, commanded us by God to eat, so that we  know that He (GOD) has blessed us. I mean the TITHE.

Yes! God commanded that the Tithe of every year should be set aside and be eaten by the giver, but must be a feast in Gods presence/ house with the giver's family, neighbours,pastor, less privilaged etc. But that of the 3rd yr should be taken to a central place in our towns -called store house, so that the poor, orphans, widows, strangers, and the Livites of course can go there and eat freely. Deuteronomy 14:22-29, Deut. 12:17-18.

They prefere to quote Malachi where the Isrealites were rebuked for not bringing the tithes/ taking it to the store-house( the 3rd year) as God had commanded earlier. Our Pastors Quote Malachi as if the Tithe law is just being given there.
There are offerings of course that should be exclusively theirs eg fellowship offerings, but they claim that everything is their own.

KunleOshob:
I just came across the scripture below and decided to share it with you. It might perhaps explain why majority of CEC members remain poor despite all their gifts to pastor chris who is already very rich.

Proverbs 22:16 If you make gifts to rich people or oppress the poor to get rich, you will become poor yourself.
Surely there is a curse for giving to rich men like pastor chris and other super "rich men of God"

Proverbs 21:27 The lord hates it when wicked men offer him sacrifices, especially if they do it from evil motives.
I think the verse above address those who "give" to God in anticipation of multiple returns.

nuclearboy:
@Jo:
This is simple english - It is GOOD to GIVE. It is scriptural to give. The benefits of giving are greater than those of taking. Please note that those benefits are not neccessarily financial. The motive is also an issue. Real givers are not looking for returns. Those who give for returns (all the tripe you spout about it being God's plan for prosperity) are only investing and not giving.

Now whether you give to the poor or to a widow or the fatherless or to your so called "man of God" (for what child of God isn't a man of God), giving is good.

The point I make above is that once giving is twisted to refer only or mainly to "men of God", there is a problem.

In absolute terms, Chris Oyakilome has less need than the average orphan needing food or the widow searching to pay her rent. But you and co turn scripture around to make it seem as though Oyaks is the needy one and giving him is what will open the windows of heaven.

"In God's Name PLC" is what you should be called

Deep Sight:
I have had a look at the links you posted. I will like to note a number of things.

I do not believe that there is anything particularly heretical about the WoF teachings. However before proceeding, let me carefully draw a distinction between the personalities behind the movement historically and the teachings of the movement. I say this because it is all too apparent to me that some of these persons, as is common with modern-day commercial pentecostalism, anyway, are simply hawks who may be pursuing their own material and corrupt agenda. This is an entirely different question from the matter of the core teaching of their faith - which teaching is what I beleive is at issue.

I have selected some extracts from the second link you provided and I wish to use this extract to address the elements of the supposedly heretical WoF teachings as set out therein. Here -

I do not see that this is at variance with Christian teaching.

1. The power of faith is a key teaching of the New Testament. As i stated in the OP, Jesus himself famously taught that if men would have sufficient faith, they could walk on water or lift mountains into the sea. Whichever way you read these statements, either literally or symbolically - the connotation is clear: that by faith all things may be accomplished. Indeed in terms of walking on water this was actually literal as the scripture records that Jesus walked on water and urged Peter to do the same (and he actually did), but faltered, lacking sure conviction. If this is not a wholesale endorsement of the WoF teaching that faith accomplishes all things, I do not know what else is.

2. The extract talks about laws operating in the universe. Do you deny this? Does scripture deny this?

3. The extract talks about the laws being independent of God's will and that God himself is subject to those laws. Really this is just another way of stating that that which God has established is unchangeable in terms of the laws that govern creation: as such God is not to be seen changing his laws - and Bible teaching bears this out when it states that God is unchangeable. Understood right, therefore, this extract simply means that God will not change the laws of creation beacause those laws are perfect and eternal, as they proceed from God. For this reason there is nothing to change, and this is why it is said that God himself is "subject" to those laws. I believe this is mirrorred in the biblical teaching that heaven and earth may pass away but the word of the Lord abideth forever. That word, simply is the law of God, and this is what is said to abide forever.

4. It is thus not a question of turning faith into God: it is simply a question of realizing that there are latent laws within the universe and that the bible does teach that through faith one may key-into those laws and reach a desired reality. Jesus clearly taught this - and you will find that it is a standard piece of truth which is mirrorred in may oriental traditions as well. I thus cannot see that the teaching regarding faith is in anyway heretical or unbiblical.

1. I do not know that the WoF claim God to be physical (like a good friend of yours does, Lol!) - but without contest the bible does teach in Genesis that God made man in his own image.

2. If God did make man in his own image as the bible teaches, then clearly man must have had attributes of the "Godly" nature, which includes the power of creativity. Thus up till today, man actively creates things.

3. The bible teaches that there was a fall of man.

4. The bible teaches that that fall of man placed man within the will of the satan as conceived in the garden of Eden. The Bible teaches that this alienated man from God.

5. The bible teaches that Jesus' coming was necessary to reconcile man with God.

6. The Bible teaches that by his death, Jesus took on the sin of the world. This is exactly analogous to that which is stated in the extract above namely "taking on the nature of satan" - this simply refers to his act of taking on the sin of the world at Golgotha.

7. The bible teaches that by this very act, Man became reconciled to God - and Jesus urged christians to thereby excercise faith to influence reality.

8. Jesus himself referred to men as "gods" - and the NT teaches that by his sacrifice men would become brothers of christ in the kingdom of God. Does this not sync perfectly with the WoF teaching regarding the powers and status of the saved christian man of faith?

All of these, which are contained in the extract, are taught by the Bible. As I said earlier, Jesus himself propounded the thought that by faith men could control reality. I thus cannot see why there is such a mighty furore over the teachings of the WoF movement as expressed herein. Frankly it seems to me that those teachings are derived from the Bible. What I do understand is that different christian sects have different interpretations of scripture. This is only natural and should not lead you to brand them heretical - they simply have a different view of scripture which they are entitled to have, especially when all the things enumerated above are undoubtedly conveyed by scripture.


What is so unscripural about the foregoing? Did Jesus not teach same?

As a post script let me just say this: Scripture and christainity aside, thought, belief and faith undoubtedly influence reality. This has been the vocation of mystics for generations. I cannot see what is evil about harnessing the power of thought to transform belief and positively influence one's reality. That is what this thread is about. [/color]

ogajim:
rich people in Edo state didn't go to bensu, if only for the fact that it was not the premier university in Edo but I digress.

You all need to put your attention and efforts on our Lord Jesus Christ not some man like you and I,
Shalom.

OLAADEGBU:
@paris10,
Was this your source?
http://www.modernghana.com/news/216384/1/christ-embassy-concealed-sex-scandal-exposed-part-.html

JeSoul:
. . . and as long as we don't turn around and declare these "practises" as a law and requirement for today's christians.

nuclearboy:
@Brothers:

I think you guys were too much in a hurry.

It would normally, be laudable what Jo initially stated but his caveat following it clarifies his stand. He wants you to [1] give to God (in church whist the Bible says Christ lives with the needy) [2] give to the poor [3] give to projects in church whist the Apostles gave to uplift people not build monuments to pastors [4] give to the man of "god", again in church [5] give to your parents

Minimum for church using a linear math model would be 60% of your gifts. Please realise tithes are not included here so church may actually get 90% with parents and poor sharing the crumbs.

In my estimation, its 6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other.

KunleOshob:
@joagbaje
Your above explanation does noþ suffice as Paul was addressing the people of corinth in that scripture and not jewish people who were familiar with the jewish way of worshipping.

Zodiac61:
How do you know this? Were you there? Is there anything in the bible that confirms this, or are making this up to try and pretend that the bible is not the work of male misogynists?
Surely, as a christian you would support people asking questions about faith, unless you know that the more people question, the more they will realise that there is nothing there.
If men did not ask questions, it just goes to confirm what quite a lot of women have said about women being the more intelligent of the species. the only way to knowledge is by being curious and asking questions (something that religion is anxious to prevent).

OLAADEGBU:
What is the source of this information?

Worried by the antics and intentions of this young lady who took over his home in Anita's absence (Anita now in the UK) alerted his parents. Elder Oyakhilome, Chris Oyakhilome`s Father intervened and ordered Anita to return to Lagos with the children. However as soon as Anita returned to their Lagos residence, Chris Oyakhilome moved his belonging into the church. Members who noticed this anomaly, were told that he needed to seek the face of God.

He reportedly refused to go home until Anita had returned to London.

JeSoul:
. how would you encourage christians to go about seperating what applies to us today and what no longer applies? If that instruction was intended within a cultural context, how do we say what else in NT scripture was not meant to be projected for future generations?