₦airaland Forum

I know you will end up in this ropes , As at when Jesus was making those statement, Are u aware the Old covenant is still operating yet he said - *WHOEVER* eats my flesh and drinky blood has everlasting life.

*UNLESS YOU EAT* - you have no life.

His listeners were those under the old covenant , Yet he said it applies to THEM as well. ( That includes John the Baptist! )

rottennaija:
When John was alive, he had not been Jesus disciple, he had his disciples. The old law covenant was still in effect, the animal sacrifices were still the way to go, the passover of the old covenant was still in effect.

So did John eat the flesh and drink the blood? No. The new covenant didn't come into effect by the time he had died, the passover lamp had not been sacrificed then, the old was still in effect, the new didn't come into effect.

On the night Jesus had died, the old covenant was terminated, the new began, which was seal with Jesus blood. The passover of the old covenant ended, the new passover came into effect, where Jesus flesh and blood replaced the old.

If John was alive, would he have eaten Jesus flesh and blood? Yes he would have. The scriptures shows that he had faith in Jesus and his disciples later became Jesus disciples.

Jesus made it clear that his statement applies to everyone including those under the old covenant to whom he speak .

" UNLESS YOU EAT the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves "

For anyone to gain life, they must eat his flesh and blood, Including John and his entire Jewish listeners ..

Will he enter God's kingdom in heaven even when he didn't eat the flesh and drink the blood? Yes he will.
Will other ancient servant of God mentioned in He 11 also enter God's kingdom in heaven though they didn't eat the flesh and drink the blood? Yes they will.

Were they born of water and spirit to enter heaven ?

The reason is that they did all that was required of then at the time, heck, they even have faith in the messiah though they never saw him.

The requirement says UNLESS, eating his flesh is important for them too!

The difference is simply, you and I live at the different time, the requirement are different. John died before the new covenant came into effect, we live in a time where the new covenant is in effect. John ate the passover sacrifice, as was expected of him. This day, Jesus is our passover who was sacrificed.

Eating his flesh and drinking his blood means life his followers.

Please where did Jesus mention new covenant in that statement ?

Different time ? Don't start to lie with this your different time theory, He made the statement even to those under the old covenant.

He said to have LIFE ...you MUST !

So why didn't John eat his flesh and drink his blood before he dies ? Can someone who didn't eat his flesh and drink his blood have LIFE ?

TruthinAction:
There is no hope for you if this is how you interpret Scripture. I give up on you. Your senses will come back to you when you see yourself in the very hell you don't believe exist.

In what form do people go to hell. with their bodies like the rich man, agree ?

TruthinAction:

Of course, he was buried . You don't expect to get details on every single thing that must have transpired. It's like asking, did people also cried when he died. There are basic knowledge of what everyone should know. The narrator assumes that we all know he was buried but his soul was carried by Angels into Abraham's bosom.

The narrator never said it was the rich man body that was buried because he knows common sense demand that we know body gets buried.

But the pattern changed in the case of Lazarus , DIED AND CARRIED BY ANGELS . His physical body got carried. it was what died that was carried by angels

Please so a soul has fingers to touch water ? Because Lazarus did.

You are putting yourself in more soup, the text never said Lazarus was buried, His corpse was carried by angels

TruthinAction:
The soul can also smell and feel. Hence Jesus said they will be weeping and gnashing their teeth night and day.

Teeth is a bone, I thought spirit don't have bones ?

Tongue is a flesh, I thought spirit don't have flesh ?

Correct me, Is the water not physical water ?

TATIME:
When people think, they often assume others don't think as well so they concluded those sticking to a form of routine doesn't think at all.

I keep imagining how this type of teaching would have convinced me to become a churchgoer if i was not born in the Churches of Christendom!

Because people die and are buried and the Church teaches that He'll is a place where people are tormented so for a churchgoer to correlate death with Hell he will say hell is not physical it is spiritual!
OK let's assume that hell is spiritual, and so it's not where dead bodies are kept but their souls. Jesus resurrected Lazarus body and soul from the grave, please did his soul/spirit came back to reunite with the body? John 11:1-57
Jesus spoke of Lazarus and the rich man. JWs teaches that it was an illustration/parable but churchgoers are insisting it was a real event, so let's assume it was real.
Is it that same Lazarus? if not where exactly did both this second Lazarus and the nameless rich man lived?
Jesus said Lazarus was at the gate and at the same time he was eating the crumbs falling from the rich man's table, so where exactly does Lazarus usually sit, in the rich man's parlor close to the dining or at the gates?
Lazarus was also full of sours and dogs usually come to lick the sours, so is it beside the rich man's dining that those dogs are doing that or at the gates?
Can anyone savor his meals comfortably and conveniently at the sight of a man full of sours while dogs are licking the sours?
OK let's leave all that.
Jesus said both Lazarus and the rich man died and buried, then Lazarus was carried by angels to Abraham's bosom but the rich man is in hell and tormented. So it's clear that one was buried while the other was carried to Abraham's bosom. Where exactly is Abraham's bosom, heaven or hell? Is Abraham also in heaven or hell?
OK let go back to the other theory that it's their souls NOT physical body that was talking from hell to Abraham's bosom. So do souls have tongues to taste or drink water?
OK Abraham also spoke in the story, what's the great gulf that separates hell and Abraham's bosom so that Lazarus can't give his former neighbour/enemy water to drink?
OK the rich man also begged that Lazarus go and talk to his brothers from his father's house, so if the dead are not allowed to communicate with the living and Abraham insisted that Moses and other prophets are to do that, was Moses still alive during all of these? how many prophets lived as a contemporary of Moses so that Abraham could say such?

It's easy to start fabricating stories to explain what we dearly want to prove but in the face of thorough scrutiny, one who has not been given divine wisdom to interpret sacred secrets will be made manifest!

Scrutinize that story and watch them lookin at you like Dummy .

rottennaija:
Speaking of Satan's craftiness, don't you admire how good he is in it that you value the words of imperfect, inspire men over the words of Jehovah and Jesus written in the scriptures?

Have you not seen how easy for to twist the Bible, excuse, deflect and give all the reasons in the world why you wouldn't obey a very simple command to eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus.

Obedience is very easy, and the reasons given for obedience is also simple. I obeyed because he commanded. Excuses for disobedience are many and complex. And you can make up, link up and read all the scriptures in this world just to justify the act of disobedience.

8 men is the very reason you don't obey God and Christ. Those 8 men if they decide you should obey Jesus, you will without asking questions. Those 8 men have you loyalty more than God or Christ ever could.

Here is the text :

" So Jesus said to them: Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU HAVE NO LIFE IN YOURSELVES , WHOEVER feeds on my flesh and drink my blood has everlasting life " John 6:53,54

Did John the Baptist Eat Jesus flesh and drink his blood ? Would he have everlasting life ?

TruthinAction:
Angel carried his soul and not his body. Angels don't bury physical bodies.

The question you should have asked before making up stories is: While the rich man was said to be buried , What happened to Lazarus Body ... Buried or carried off by angels ?

TruthinAction:
Hell is a spiritual kingdom under the earth and it's very real. Just as the heaven is above, you can't get to heaven by rocket or aeroplane. So hell is not a physical environment. However, the location is in the depth of the earth. Only departed lost souls go there.

So how come the rich man has a fleshly tongue that can taste water ? Is the tongue and water not physical ?

TruthinAction:
This is the problem with Jehovah witnesses. They ascribe a meaning to a word and insist that that is what it means in all context.

Maybe you need to go back to school and study English. I mean a good school. Words in English can mean different things depending on the context it is used. In one context, it could be a noun. In another, it could be a verb. So, you need to understand the context under which a word is used and the part of speech to know its meaning. Please check your dictionary for confirmation. For the word bosom, look at the different context on online dictionary explains its meaning.

bosom (plural bosoms)

1.(anatomy) The breast or chest of a human (or sometimes of another animal). [from 11thc.] ▼ show
2.The seat of one's inner thoughts, feelings etc.; one's secret feelings; desire. [from 13thc.] ▼ show
3. The protected interior or inner part of something; the area enclosed as by an embrace. [from 15thc.] ▼ show
4. The part of a dress etc. covering the chest; a neckline. ▼ show
5. (in the plural) A woman's breasts. [from 20thc.] ▼ show
6. Any thing or place resembling the breast; a supporting surface; an inner recess; the interior.
7.A depression round the eye of a millstone.

I hope you have learnt an English lesson today. When you go to your study, teach your teacher what you just learned. It might help to address many other false teachings that have been established by this mistake of ascribing one meaning to a word that has multiple usages.

So Bosom as used in that story refers to which ? Yeye dey smell o

Okay, add this: I remember it was angels that carried Lazarus Corpse in that story, it wasn't buried, My question is: If this story truly represent what happen after death, Why are angels not carrying corpses today ?

TruthinAction:
Just as what is above is clouds. But we also know that heaven is above.

Pro 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

Hell is not physical grave. It is a place of torment. It is far deeper than a physical grave.

What is beneath the dry land is WATER . .. Don't you read your Bible ?

Funny how you guys say the story of rich man and Lazarus is literal But try to render Abraham bosom non literal .

TruthinAction:
He did not see heaven. What he saw was Abraham's bosom which was underneath the earth also and separated from hell by a deep gulf. It was after Jesus resurrection the Saints in Abraham's bosom rose and went to heaven. [/b]

Hahahaha
Abraham Bosom, means literal chest of the person called Abraham , agree ?

"
Sarai said to Abram, "This wrong is your fault. I gave my servant into your bosom " Genesis 16:5

Was Hagar in the depth of the earth, ?

TruthinAction:
Hell is in the depth of the earth. As more people enter, the size is increased to accommodate them and people like you who do not believe it exist.

So does hell means Grave ?

As far as I know, what's beneath the land of the earth is WATER - Genesis 1:9

rottennaija:
So I can say you know what propaganda is, yes?

Next time shine your eyes, Janosky isn't Jozzy4 .

rottennaija:
So I can say you know what propaganda is, yes?

Point out what's propaganda about the post . that's what a sensible person would do

TruthinAction:
They don't believe Jesus resurrected bodily from the dead. Romans 10:9-10 says you must believe that God raised Jesus from the dead to be saved. I don't have the time right now to include many other reasons. If you like join. You have be warned. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

According to Romans 19:9,10 quoted by you, They believe God raise Jesus from the dead, Yes or no ?

Yes, hell is personified as a woman. I didn't say so, the Scripture did.

Isa 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged HERSELF , and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

Some translations say " IT " . so your postulation isn't sound. But how does hell enlarge itself without measure , if it has no measure or No boundary) is planet earth in hell ?

rottennaija:
Are you feeling guilty? I didn't say anything representing the idea that what you wrote were propaganda. In my place, they say that 'a sinner runs when no one is pursuing him'. I simply asked, do you know what propaganda is?

So I can say you know what propaganda is, yes?

Better that way.

rottennaija:
I simply asked if you know what propaganda is. You could have said yes or not, you didn't have to kill yourself with explanations

The explanation were to tell you nothing is propaganda about what I said. Follower of Paulgrundy . I guess you can't deny all have said.

TruthinAction:
Please, accept Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour and attend a Bible believing church where Jesus is glorified. Jehovah witness are not Christians. They are wolves in sheep's clothing.

How exactly are they not christians ?

Are you not the same guy who said Hell is a woman . Yeye dey smell

rottennaija:
Really? Do you know what propaganda is?

Which propaganda? Are you okay?

Someone who says to condemn birthdays as wrong because some persons does it follows that dogs should be banned since it was portrayed in bad light in scripture, Unknown to him Job rear dogs , Whereas he can't present a single servant of God that celebrates birthday, so much for independent thinking .

Your scared pastor skipped the topic of hell and immortal soul completely , e dey fear ? . even claimed at the time of Jesus , the tetramagatton has been removed from scripture, Whereas the Jews never removed the name. He is only regurgitating what Jw critics say, ANYONE using that site for research is like asking the blind for way, He himself like I said is a pained Ex witness, angry and blind, So that enough ruled him out as an avenue to learn .

rottennaija:
Anything you read on jw.org, compare and contrast with www.jwfacts.com. If you want to buy a car, it is better to hear from the manufacturers, people who have bought and used the car and people who no longer use it. Hear from all sides and decide.

www.jw.org and www.jwfacts.com

Jw facts is a Sick place to Learn about witnesses , The moment I saw his Failed analysis on birthdays and how he skipped the topic of hellfire and immortal soul in his questionable doctrines , I knew that guy has nothing in his head when it comes to Biblical knowledge, he was probably scared of flopping big tyme. He is just an opposer , an opposer has nothing positive to say . ( Revelation 12:10 " accuser of our brothers " attitude ) , A wise person should only visit Jw.org for good information's . Well articulated and short

Shadeyinka
Abraham wasn't Physical was he?
If Abraham isn't Physical but still alive, what make you think the Scriptures was refering to Physical Lazarus?

He can dip his fingers in Physical water which us meant to cool the tongue of physical beings. Wasn't even buried, but his corpse carried by angels . This is where you will get your neck hanged. How many such have you seen happen ?

shadeyinka:
Mar 9:43-48:
"And if your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell the municipal refuse dump , into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched. And if your foot offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life , than having two feet to be cast into hell the municipal refuse dump , into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched. And if your eye offend you, pluck it out: it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes [/b]to be cast into hell the municipal refuse dump fire: Where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched."


Where did the bible say people hands and legs are thrown into gehenna? The Scripture is about [b]YOU having your members complete not about arms and legs.

Except your comprehension is at kindergarten level would you see it as you have seen it!

Look at the red, Hands and feet casted into Gehenna. That's what Jesus pronounced.

Your silly sef said hell is correct, Then Has any corpse disappeared to hell with their body ?

Abraham wasn't Physical was he?
If Abraham isn't Physical but still alive, what make you think the Scriptures was refering to Physical Lazarus?

Was Lazarus buried ? What happen to his body?

You don't have sense

shadeyinka:
If you believe that the Scripture
Rev 6:9-11:
"And when he had opened the fifth seal , I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, do you not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to every one of them; and it was said to them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brothers, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Is 100% symbolic, would you please explain the symbolic meaning of
1. Those who were slain?
2. What it meant by "they cried with a loud voice"?
3. Told to rest a little while?
4. Given white robes?
5. The fellow brothers that should be killed on the earth?
6. Those who dwell on the earth.

If you cannot, keep quiet and stop preaching heresies!

I can't spoon feed you, If you do not believe the other seals where Death rides horse, Stars fell on earth are Real. Shut your mouth.

shadeyinka:
If Angels need no bodies to exist, what do you think happens to humans.

Angels have spiritual bodies. Like the heavenly one, so are those who belong to heaven .

I don't know why you always misquote and misapply Scriptures

Acts 17:28:
"For in him we live , and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."

In God we live and move and have our being is what the Scripture is saying

To move and have our being ( Exist) the Red is important. , That's the opposite of death.

shadeyinka:
I wonder what would happen at death when they see that even though they are dead, yet they can still feel, reason and have emotions.

They feel humans are so valuable that God cannot forget some of them in his prison. Why should anyone fear God if the worst man can do is also the worst God can do to man

Only the living, move and exist - Act 17 vs 28

It has been quoted previously here

OLAADEGBU:
I did not say spiritual body. I said spirit body, there is a difference

Don't worry, u will meet your Head ache below

. The word hell here in the Greek is called Hades, it means "the unseen world."

"And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and sees Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom" (Luke 16:23).

Sinners go to a place of conscious torment where they know each other after death. You can see from this verse that the rich man did not lose his identity after death he could recognise Abraham and Lazarus.

The rich man has Eyes and Tongue, are thses spirit or flesh ?

Death is separation, it neither means extinction nor annihilation as you have been led to believe. There is a second death, which is spiritual death and it means eternal separation from God. At physical death the body becomes lifeless because the person's spirit has moved out. The body is put into the grave and the elements return to the dust.

"...for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return" (Genesis 3:19).

This is further proof that death means separation.

Spirit RETURN to God ! Fine.

When Jesus died and his spirit return, Was he in heaven that day ?

Cc: Barristt07

It will help us to understand that Sheol or Hades as you will like to call it is actually divided into 2 compartments: The first one is paradise (Abraham's Bosom) and the other is the place of torment described above.

When did the bosom of Abraham became Paradise ? Are u just deliberately lying



The scripture never said Sheol is divided into two places.

Paradise was emptied when our Lord Jesus Christ took the OT believers to heaven.

Where did it say Paradise was emptied?

The place of torment will deliver up the lost for judgment at the Great White Throne. All those who stand in judgment are lost and will be cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

That is the difference between eternal life and eternal death (separation). I hope that I have not succeeded in annoying you.

Hades hasn't empty anyone. rev 20:13

Even those in the sea are not in Your hell. Why ? Yeye

Am thinking of how to help you, Your case is a pathetic one.

shadeyinka:
You will note that even though these people were dead, they still had their bodies (spiritual bodies) for which white robes were given to them.
If the Rich man was BURIED according to Jesus, I presume that JWs came to exhume the corpse so that he can be physically thrown into gehenna!? SMH!

Nobody has a spiritual body Until Ressurection . 1 Cor 15:44,46 . what is physical is first.

Ressurection hasn't happen. Relax

Rev 6:9-11:
"And when he had opened the fifth seal , I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, do you not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to every one of them; and it was said to them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brothers, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Can you explain in the Scripture above how the dead unconscious people spoke and were given White robes?

The seals are ILLUSTRATIONS. Even Stars fall inside the earth , Hades walk , and death rides a horse . in each of these seals., do you believe this are Real too?

Receive sense

shadeyinka:
So according to you, Jesus was referring to the physical gehenna.

Read the Scripture again:


Mar 9:43-48:
"And if your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell the municipal refuse dump , into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched. And if your foot offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell the municipal refuse dump , into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched. And if your eye offend you, pluck it out: it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell the municipal refuse dump fire: Where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched."

Read this and comprehend!
1. Jesus was comparing the kingdom of God with the judgement of Hell
2. If Jesus was speaking about the literal gehenna, this Scripture wouldn't make any sense
3. If Jesus was was speaking about live people being thrown into hell.

How satan has so blinded you.!?

Is it dead unconscious people who enter heaven?
If it is then, we can expect dead unconscious people who enter hell?

Are human two hands and feet thrown into Gehenna into Jesus day ? Yeah it make perfect sense



Jesus never speak of Living people in Gehenna , no wonder you are gasping to answer if human bodies go to hell presently .

shadeyinka:
You believe that Jesus had a spiritual body and yet you are so dumb that you insist that a man has only physical bodies.

Spiritual body comes after ressurection . Relax
1 Cor 15:44, Jesus ressurect to have that

If Jesus stated that the rich man was buried, how come he could still speak and feel torment?

When satan makes people blind, you wonder the depth of such blindness!

The same reason why Lazarus corpse was carried by angels , yet such doesn't happen today. The story isn't real .

The rich man was present bodily too, do such occur today ? Do people dissapear with their body to your fictional hell ? Use your BRAIN

OLAADEGBU:

The physical body laid in the grave (Sheol) while the spirit body went to Hades/ Gehenna . The spirit body takes up the same shape of the physical body and its senses are more real. I am beginning to teach you how to sing now please don't get annoyed.

Haywizzy007 , Barristter07 , janosky

Sheol is the same as Hades !!!

Olaadegbu, you are a disgrace .

That's not even a spiritual body, a spiritual body doesn't taste PHYSICAL water . its a physical body.

You are now in a big trouble

shadeyinka:
Do they throw living human beings in the Literal Gehenna or Corpses?
Was Jesus warning Corpses or Living beings?

Jesus mention Body in Gehenna, he was referring to the corpses thrown there .

You who doesn't have sense, are human body in hellfire now ?

DeOTR:
Actually, the word translated to grave in Corinthians 15:55 is Hades. If you read from verse 51 you'll understand better. The Greeks might use the word Hades to mean something else (they were pagans and hell, the idea of an immortal soul is borne out of paganism) but it's used in biblical context as simply grave. In Luke 16:22-23, the Rich man was buried, and in hell (the Greek word used here was Hades) he lifted up his eyes . This is an instance where Hades is translated as hell in the Bible.

Shadeyinka is not learned biblically .