₦airaland Forum

OLAADEGBU:
What you should be asking yourself is what happened to the rich man's consciousness when he physically died.

He disappeared with his physical body into Hellfire , Don't you know ?

shadeyinka:
You don't know when you are being mocked!

I was mocking you actually, If the rich man has his physical body with tongue in hell, Do you agree those in hell presently have their physical bodies ? How many corpse have disappeared from mortuary to hell ?

But, On a more serious note: what you have implied is that anywhere the word gehenna is used, it is on literal sense of course which is meaningless within the context of the verse.

I have attached James 3:6

Jam 3:6:
"And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell."

Is James also speaking about the literal Physical gehenna?

The literal Gehenna destroys, same way the tongue destroys a persons reputation. The key word is " Destroy " . that's why James use that comparison, Your sense didn't saw that James was making a comparison between tongue and Gehenna ?


your translation says " it is set on fire of hell " Do people's tongue go to hell like the rich man ?

shadeyinka:
Whenever a person proves not to see, that is the results. I gave you the three different shades of meaning of gehenna and you said the most appropriate is "refuse dump". I have simply fixed your proper translation and you are complaining because you know it doesn't make any sense.

I asked you a simple question: "What is the theological message in the teaching of Jesus in Mk9:42-48? What was Jesus teaching?

You are just too Du.ll

At Mark 9:42-48 Jesus picture Physical bodies in Gehenna, But since you said it means Hell

Justify your assertion MR MAN! Do people in hell presently have their two Human hands and feet in hell ?

alBHAGDADI:
He went to hell to preach to the souls there.

So he didn't RETURN TO GOD ? Eccl 12:7

shadeyinka:

Unfortunately for you, as of the time of Jesus, NO ONE throws Living Beings there!

You yourself is referring to Corpse being thrown there. Even your Literal interpretation fail.

Do you think worms survive in the physical literal gehenna?
Think!

Jesus therefore proved Gehenna isn't hellfire, No living being are thrown there but unconscious bodies. No wonder Jesus make reference to body in Gehenna

Does Body go to your fictional hell ? That should have restored your factory setting that Jesus didn't have such in mind.

Worms? Lolzzzzzz, are this worms spirit or physical ? Because I know worms exist in Gehenna and they are physical fleshly worms,

Do worms exist in your fiction hell ? Cc: Barristter07 come and see something

shadeyinka:
You mean to say Sheol mean Gehenna?
Think and be free!

Sheol mean Hades , agree ?

Is the rich man in Hades or Gehenna ?

shadeyinka:
You obviously don't understand when you are being mocked.
Can you answer how many people are in heaven (with or without their bodies).

As a fact,the rich man went with all unrepentant Jehovah's Witness adherents!

But the rich man went with his physical body, the mockery is on you, How many people are in hellfire with there physical bodies ?

OLAADEGBU:
Why just his physical body, you should also ask what happened to his spirit and soul?

No, its a punch and a disgrace to you. do you believe physical bodies are in hell like it happen to the rich man ?

alBHAGDADI:
Yes, the spirit, whether wicked or righteous, will return to God. That's when he sends the righteous into heaven and the wicked into punishment of fire. Or what were you thinking God will do with the spirit?


Ecclesiastes 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Jesus did t have to say it the way you want. The Bible teaches it. The Bible taught about souls facing torment in hell and also how the dead unrighteous will resurrect and remain dead to be judged by God before getting thrown in the fire.

But your failure to admit that hell fire is taught by the Bible is preventing to g you from accepting the truth. GB has really turned you into a robot.

Your little head thinks spirit return means a person returns, When Jesus died and his spirit RETURN, Is he in heaven that time ?

alBHAGDADI:
Yeye dey smell

This one has been slammed by a truckload of truth that he couldn't debate against. He's now here saying what Paul never said.

Same Paul in Romans 4 spoke of how Abraham's faith is what makes one righteous and that faith gets eternal life according to the Bible's most popular verse John 3:16.

Hebrew 11:39 should give you sense . next time you won't say nonsense. They did not receive any promise despite their faith.

alBHAGDADI:
Your question has no context.

It does , answer it : Is the rich man present Bodily ?

To prove your lie of soul went first wrong

shadeyinka:
The rich man not only went with his arms and legs, he went with his tongue!

I have quoted the Scripture below to suit your beliefs: please tell me what Jesus was teaching there:


Let's see what the Scripture Mk9:42-48 mean
I am going to replace Hell with Municipal Refuse Dump (where corpse are dumped) for clarity!


Mar 9:42-48:
"And whoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
And if your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell Municipal Refuse Dump , into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.
And if your foot offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell Municipal Refuse Dump , into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.
And if your eye offend you, pluck it out: it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell Municipal Refuse Dump fire: Where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched."

Now that I have interpreted not transliterated HELL in the scripture according to your desire!

Now, explain what Jesus was teaching? Does it even make any meaning to you?
SMH!
I wonder how people hate the truth this much!

The rich man went with his Tongue Hahahaha

So how many corpse have went to hell with their bodies o ? ? ?

shadeyinka:
I embedded three questions, and you answered one as usual!

Let's see what the Scripture Mk9:42-48 mean
I am going to replace Hell with Municipal Refuse Dump for clarity!


Mar 9:42-48:
"And whoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
And if your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell Municipal Refuse Dump , into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.
And if your foot offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell Municipal Refuse Dump , into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.
And if your eye offend you, pluck it out: it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell Municipal Refuse Dump fire: Where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched."

Now that I have interpreted not transliterated HELL in the scripture according to your desire!

Now, explain what Jesus was teaching? Does it even make any meaning to you?
SMH!
I wonder how people hate the truth this much!

You don't have sense o, its like slotting " Jehovah is Salvation " whenever the name Jesus appear because that its meaning. how will that make sense ?

You are the one who claimed this verses prove hell, then justify the presence of Hands and Legs?
Why bury those parts for people , why not cast them to hell ?

Emusan:
I said "IT" was use for Jesus, John the Baptist

Does that mean they are not a person.

For the last time, answer my question first! IF NOT YOUR RANTING WILL CONTINUE.



Answer my question first!

hahahaha Fear dey catch una . las las u will answer that question

Idiot why didn't you emphasis on the key point of Luke which is "AFTER HE KILLED"?

It's evident that both Matthew and Luke talked about what man and God can do to the BODY but what only God can do after the Body is gone.

Don't be a zombie, He still went ahead to mention Body in hell again! Are u bl.Ind?
He would have mention soul alone, he said both soul and body in hell . telling you that body was casted too

Your ignorance is alarming!

Jesus Christ said "man can kill the body but CAN'T KILL THE SOUL"

Why would Jesus differentiate between BODY and SOUL if the two are the same?



If not because your ignorance so rich in color

Mark emphasized more on the subject matter "Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell , [u]into the fire that never shall be quenched:" KJV[/b]

The first @underlined was talking about the BODY, yet you're claiming BODY can't go to heaven.

The second @underlined talked about FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED

Even your corrupted translation can't remove that part from the scripture.

So how many Dead people have went to Hell with their two hands ?

Barristter07:
Janosky, Jozzy4 . Come and Carry this your brother , tell him to stop replying already, he is sounding like a Nuisance



You argue its a person , I said IT there refer to a thing . to solve this: I gave you a true Life scenario

Emusan, When Jesus spirit RETURN TO GOD, Was Jesus in heaven that day ?



Luke said God will cast something

Matthew explains BOTH Soul and Body, You are putting yourself in more problem



Jesus statement . address it.



You can imagine the nonsense you typed above, Do u understand the nonsense you wrote above ?

Let me clarify: Jesus said its better you lose some part of your body than HAVE YOUR WHOLE BODY CASTED INTO HELL .

Emphasis on " Casted into HELL"

So contrary to your earlier lie, the body is Casted into hell.



The Red part expose your lying mouth again, Do you accept body goes to Hell now ?

Emusan is a confuse person.

shadeyinka:
You argue like a dummy!

The question was:
Can you find a single new testament verse that calls or describes hell as the grave?

I even used the word "describe" so that you don't need to find exact Quotes

Why didn't you read my response or answer the question!

But Hades and Sheol are the same thing ?

alBHAGDADI:
This question actually shows why the gospel preached by your organization is false and a work based salvation gospel.

You want to know if Abraham and the Old Testament saints went to heaven without the coming, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.

Your believe is that one has to believe in Jesus before he or she can make heaven. That means those who died before Jesus came to earth cant make heaven or will have to wait for the resurrection. You are funny.

Do you think salvation started after Jesus Christ came to earth? Mankind has been getting saved from Abel and Abraham's days. Before I explain that, let me first ensure you understand something.

Hope you know the word FAITH mean BELIEVE.

Now, how do we make Heaven or have everlasting life? It is by faith/believe in Jesus who is God.

John 3:16 (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Did Abraham believe God?

Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Did Abel have faith/believe in God?

Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

The bolded part above shows that Abel still speaks today despite being dead. That debunks your soul sleep false doctrine and shows that he is alive in heaven.

Below is Paul saying we get saved through faith in God just as Abel, Abraham and the old testament saints did.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

All the prophets before the coming of Jesus Christ believed in him and also witnessed about him. Isaiah, David, Moses, Daniel, John the Baptist etc all preached about Jesus which shows they believed in him.

Acts 10:43
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Now, juxtapose what the prophets preached about with the verse below.


John 3:16 (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Clearly, their believe gave them everlasting life which is why they are in heaven. But according to you, they are totally dead and nowhere because you don't believe anyone is in heaven. That means you have called Jesus a liar. Remember he said he will give all those who believe in him everlasting life.

John 10:28 (KJV)
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

The Bible verse below is telling we believers that we have that eternal life now. This means we won't wait till resurrection till we get it. We have it already that is why we go straight to heaven where fellow believers like Abel and Abraham are.

1 John 5:13 (KJV)
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

If we have to go unconscious for a while before getting that eternal life on ressurection day, then the above verse lied when it said we already have it.

Have you been schooled today or the robotic programming of JW couldn't allow you understand my post?

Silly pastor, I pity those listening to you

Paul said they didn't receive the promise despite their faith! Telling you they were not saved without Christ death

OLAADEGBU:
Don't be querulous. You can ask Jesus, His apostles and believers what they had to say about eternal death (Hell).

(Revelation 1:18) The Evidence Bible.

There are three words translated "hell" in Scripture:

Gehenna (Greek): The place of punishment (Matthew 5:22,29; 10:28; and James 3:6)

Hades (Greek): The abode of the dead (Matthew 11:23; 16:18, Luke 16:23; Acts 2:27)

Sheol (Hebrew): The grave (Psalm 9:17; 16:10)

There are those who accept that hell is a place of punishment, but believe that the punishment is to be annihilated—to cease conscious existence. They can't conceive that the punishment of the wicked will be conscious and eternal. If they are correct, then a man like Adolph Hitler, who was responsible for the deaths of millions, is being "punished" merely with eternal sleep. His fate is simply to return to the non-existent state he was in before he was born, where he doesn't even know that he is being punished.

However, Scripture paints a different story. The rich man who found himself in hell (Luke 16:19–31) was conscious. He was able to feel pain, to thirst, and to experience remorse. He wasn't asleep in the grave; he was in a place of "torment." If hell is a place of knowing nothing or a reference to the grave into which we go at death, Jesus' statements about hell make no sense. He said that if your hand, foot, or eye causes you to sin, it would be better to remove it than to:

(Mark 9:43–48).

The Bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following:

(Daniel 12:2)

(Mathew 25:46)

(Matthew 24:51)

(Luke 3:17)

(Romans 2:8,9)

(2 Thessalonians 1:9)

(Jude 7,13)

Revelation 14:10,11 tells us the final, eternal destiny of the sinner:

Olaadegbu, Your case is critical, is the rich man not present in Hades with his Physical body ?

alBHAGDADI:
Souls are currently in he while their bodies are in the ground dead. They will be judged before the bodies are thrown into the fire where their souls are.

Revelation 20:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Liar! Is the rich man a soul or physical human ?

alBHAGDADI:
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

During death, the spirit leaves the body. That is what the Bible deffines as death as seen in verse above. The body goes into the ground while the spirit lives on either in hell or heaven.

Eccl 12:7 says the spirit returns to God either wicked or righteous , Are u sleeping when you type the bolded rubbish ?

To your questions, yes souls are in hell right now, but their bodies are in the grave . It is after the final judgment of the wicked that their bodies will be resurrected, not to be alive again but as the dead i.e the bodies remain dead as seen in revelations 20. After jugdment, they are then thrown into the fire where their souls are. That brings to past the saying of Jesus Christ...

Matthew 10:28
“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Jesus did not say soul will go first and Body join later, as a matter of fact he said BOTH body and soul just as Barister07 emphasized earlier.

Did Jesus lie ?

Don't be comforted, Barister07 isn't online, When he arrives you will smell your pepper.

shadeyinka:
I am so Sorry for you!
Fake Translation!? Or non-translation!? Please what is the fake Translation? For, "Gehenna" isn't a translation, it is a transliteration! "Hell" is a Translation of γέενναν (gehenna)!

For your information, gehenna wasn't translated as hellfire as you have concluded and insinuated, it was translated as hell. Hence Jesus did not call Gehenna Hellfire but Hell! Jesus only qualified this hell as a place where Fire cannot be put out! as per your accusation!

If you've made up your mind to be in Gehenna, have it your way. For Jesus want speaking of a terrestrial refuse dump; if you think He was, please justify it?


1. It is better you enter life maimed (after Resurection) than go with your two hands into gehenna (Hell)
2. The Fire of this gehenna cannot be put out, terrestrial gehenna's fire has been out for up to 200 years now
3. The opposite and alternative for this gehenna is the kingdom of God (after Resurection) hence, this gehenna can only be Hell
4. This gehenna is described as where the maggots does not die (looks like the maggots are supper maggots that are not terrestrial)
Here, I have put a translation that struggles to translate the gehenna as hell so that the meaning can remain hidden.


Mk9: 43-48(NWT)
43 “If ever your hand makes you stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than to go off with two hands into Ge·henʹna, into the fire that cannot be put out.i 44 —— 45 And if your foot makes you stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame than to be thrown with two feet into Ge·henʹna.j 46 —— 47 And if your eye makes you stumble, throw it away.k It is better for you to enter one-eyed into the Kingdom of God than to be thrown with two eyes into Ge·henʹna,l 48 where the maggot does not die and the fire is not put out.m

You want desperately to believe that this gehenna spoken of by Jesus is the literal Physical refuse dump!? Continue to decieve yourself!

Which one do you think is an appropriate meaning of gehenna?
1. The place where idolatrous Jews offered their children in sacrifice to Molech?
2. The place that served as refuse dump in the time of Jesus?
3. A place describing Hades?

As usual, you will avoid these questions like plague: for people love darkness rather than light.


NOTE: In case you didn't see it, I have embedded three questions in this post highlighted by bolding them.


Don't be afraid of the truth, it will set you free!

Even your friend Barristter07 had dropped out from this loosing battle.

No 2 is the meaning of Gehenna, no conscious torment exist there. This is why Jesus keep speaking of physical body in Gehenna, because that's what go there.

You who call it hell, How many physical bodies has dissapear to Hell ?

You don't know anything like I usually say

shadeyinka:
You argue like a dummy!

The question was:
Can you find a single new testament verse that calls or describes hell as the grave?

I even used the word "describe" so that you don't need to find exact Quotes

Why didn't you read my response or answer the question!

Hades u said is not grave and any translation that call it grave is fake, Do u still maintain this stand? If you do why will a Greek Bible render Sheol with Hades as equivalent ?

shadeyinka:
You argue like a dummy!

The question was:
Can you find a single new testament verse that calls or describes hell as the grave?

I even used the word "describe" so that you don't need to find exact Quotes

Why didn't you read my response or answer the question!

Hades u said is not grave and any translation that call it grave is fake, Do u still maintain this stand? If you do why will a Greek Bible render Sheol with Hades as equivalent ?

shadeyinka:
I hope you had read a little of the past posts before opening you mouth any how. Since you don't read, let me refresh you again





It's obvious you have forgotten what led us to this ! It started with

Haywizzy, don't be offended , he has actually realize his mistake . but we won't let him go Scot free. Tell us the Greek equivalent of Sheol ,?

shadeyinka:
You argue like a dummy!
Why didn't you read my response!

Chai ! So so silly

You and aLBHAGDADI keep saying and asking show us a reference in the NT of Hell as Grave, didn't you ?

To answer your question. I said if Sheol Is Grave , What is the Greek equivalent of Sheol ? After telling us, we will see if it appear or not.

U are the dummy, can u see ?

Emusan:
Soul.....

because it's already established that both God and man can kill the BODY

Soul kwa? Lolzzz

Go and answer your query, or did Jesus lied at Matthew 5:30 ?

Barristter07:
Let's see if it's a thing or person .

When Jesus spirit return to God, was Jesus in heaven that day ?



It trashes you as a liar, U dubious person!

What Did God cast into this Hell I asked ../ your response: Soul alone. Despite Jesus saying BOTH soul and body.

Let the next verse reply you better:

"
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole BODY should be CAST INTO hell. KJB

Will God cast the Body into Hell too ?

Lolzzzzzzzzzzz Emusan, will God cast body to hell ? I thought u said its soul alone. Lol

shadeyinka:
It's obvious you have forgotten what led us to this ! It started with

Shebi no reference to Hell as Grave in NT ?

What's the Greek equivalent of Sheol, let us see if it appear in NT nah ?

shadeyinka:

Only fake translations would translate the Greek HADES to Grave in Rev 20:13. The interlinear Greek English is presented in the attached picture.

If this is your best answer
Do you now agree that there is not a single passage in the New Testament that refer to or describes the grave as Hell!


Dumb question! A very stupid question.

It's just like saying:
Is it true that the hands of a prisoner go into Prison?

What is the Greek equivalent of Hebrew Sheol?

haywizzy007:
They are confused, they won't just admit..

U see that shallow one called shadeyinka that said no single reference to Hell as Grave in the NT , little knowledge did not let him know the Sheol he admit as Grave is the same as Hades .

shadeyinka:
Abraham knows nothing, for he was annihilated in the wishes of JW people!
/And yet God is not the God of the dead, but of the living!

SMH!

And how many times will it be repeated to you that Jesus statement was made in the context of ressurection ? Are u this Blin.d ?

Shadeyinka what is the Greek equivalent of Hebrew Sheol ?

Today u will know you are very shallow in understanding