₦airaland Forum

Hairyrapunzel:
But they supported people that carried guns to kill a particular ethnic group. Rutherford supported Nazi ideologies it shows hatred . Besides you don't need only guns to show hate. You don't need to kill someone with a gun to show you hate the person your words alone can tell hatred

So in other words they didn't kill people directly but sang praises for people who committed the acts of killing on others this shows they are good people right?

Stop giving excuses for the role your jws played in Hitlers regime. From what I have seen they helped to spread hate of the Jews.

the Bold is why I told you to sit down and read my responses again,

This was to counter the Accusation that they were funded/Supported by the Jews.

" We are the faithful followers of Christ Jesus and believe upon Him as the Savior of the world, whereas the
Jews entirely reject Jesus Christ and emphatically deny that he is the Savior of the world sent of God for man's good. This of itself should be sufficient proof to show that we receive no support from Jews "

if u cant understand , let me help you .. the point been made is not an hatred for Jews BUT the issue is , How can they Be supported by a group of people who totally oppose Christ as Saviour which is their own message ? its contradictory of them to receive support from Jews when they held on to the belive that Jesus of Nazareth died and was Ressurected for our salvation , something the Jews deny.



About the bold , Read this :


" The "Declaration" also reminded the government of its own promises. The Witnesses upheld certain high ideals, and these happened to be publicly espoused also by the German government. Among these were family values and religious freedom.

In this regard, the "Declaration" added: "A careful examination of our books and literature will disclose the fact that the very high ideals held and promulgated by the present national government are set forth in and endorsed and strongly emphasized in our publications, and show that Jehovah God will see to it that these high ideals in due time will be attained by all persons who love righteousness."
Thus, the Witnesses never expressed support for the Nazi Party. …"-Awake! 1998 Jul 8.

So Jehovah Gods ideal which will be attained by people who love Righteousness is killing your fellow man ? have explained this countless times, the ideals And way of life outlined in the Bible if followed would contribute to the Govt achieving its aim . the ideals are those of Righteousness outlined in the scripture which Jehovah hope to achieve soon .

Lawlahdey:
See.. There's nothing like your man or "my" man.
If you can't share your man with another woman in this generation, you are only seeking to remain alone.
Even if your man doesn't marry another woman apart from you, he will still look outside and these other women will still share "your" man with you.

Sooner we start encouraging polygamy, the better.

Sister Lawlahdey , Not all men delight in wronging their woman . truth is naturally women are not build to accomodate rivals, So every woman want that man that will cherish Her as the One and Only he has in words and deeds. such men exist on this planet

Hairyrapunzel:
It still doesn't change the fact that Rutherford supported Hitlers stance against Jews. Paul asking christians to pay tax is not thesame as Rutherfords support of Nazi government for their anti semitic policies. One preaches giving the government it's due the other preaches supporting a governments hate policies. So if your government hates an ethnic group and you have problems with the govt at that time because you want to keep up an appearance with that govt to earn rewards you will support the govt hate propaganda against that ethnic group?


So in other words you are saying hating an ethnic group is part of citizens obligatory role? Haba use your reasoning.

The bold shows you need to re-read my post over and over again until you understand it.

I wonder why they didn't carry Gun and start killing an ethnic group since according to you they hate them!

Hairyrapunzel:
You are still saying Rutherford was pro Nazi since he supported them. Since it is half truth there is an element of truth and half truth sounds better than complete lies.

The only element of truth is he wrote a letter which a sane mind knows is simply pointing at Religious obligations to the Creator which at the same time benefit the human family and restore good relationship among mankind , which is what Every govt wants in its citizen, been law abiding . @ Romans 13:7 Apostle Paul ask Christians to pay taxes , doing this not only Make u have a good relationship with God, but helps the Govt in achieving its goals too . use your reasoning

Nazis aimed to kill all jews but killed over 6 million Jews. so you are saying jws upheld this standard?

Killing your fellow man is not a religious obligation and a direct Offense against God Almighty . this aspect is what the Witnesses wont do Scripture says we must Obey God as rulers rather than men .

Ubenedictus:
So you believe it is ok that the jw supported hitler in his anti semitism.

Sir, how exactly did they support Hitler ? by saying they upheld the same standard that the Govt aim to achieve ? Mr man, No government want its citizens to lie, cheat or commit fraud , or evade taxes , THEY WANT THEM TO BE LAW ABIDING when u preach against this acts You are helping the Govt in its goal to have better and law abiding citizens, even though you are only Preaching Morals of God. a good example is Romans 13:7 , understand!


dont listen to all this half truths and twisted opinions presented on this thread

ChristianFreedo:
I'm not going to insult you. But you are free to. I edited to give a better response and you are not going to force me to any decision, please try to rest your case. And that's my last response to you.

- Matt 10:37 is very clear, clearly you are deceiving yourself BIG TYME

ChristianFreedo:
You know the organisation of Jehovah's Witnesses are led by men that are really smart and curny. They have so indoctrinated their followers in such a way that if anyone says or alleges that their leaders are not faithful or truthful, the first thing that will trigger in the minds of the followers will be "either the person has committed a sin, and disfellowship, or his trying to hide his sins or is trying to escape from preaching or is trying to make excuses" (As you may have realised, JWs, elders, Ms, pioneers do commit sins and still remain in "good standing" , do assignment, lead in field service etc and no one knows.)

Whatsoever reason to divert attention from the points raised or made. Anything at all. I saw it happened to me when I started raising questions and objective to some biblical applications. First thing they will ask of you is to wait, wait for the organisation to clarify, and if you persist, they will start claiming "Satan is using you, you are trying to hide one sin or another and whatever have you". I have seen it before, I know it all. Its a systematic way the organisation uses to shut people up and the jw followers are tools used by the men controlling the organisation.

The point is, if I am outside the organisation to present these issues, it will simply fit into the script played by the organisation. It will be easy for the organisation to say and for people to believe that "this people is just some person that want to smear the organisation with wicked lies" or most" fittingly" "he was disfellowshiped, tell the world what you did" as I was said when I posted about the regional convention, and I had to refute the claims.

But when I am inside, with a clean standing, detailing what is wrong with the organisation, it will be very easy for outside observers to know that something is wrong, that it's not just about the 'fine, shirt and tie wearing, with smile faces' they see offering attractive books with pictures. It will clearly show that something is wrong at the core and that some people are aware of it.
More so, it will be easy to talk with fellow witnesses, draw they attention to errors and misapplications, something that can't ever happened if I am outside and their head is filled with "Satan is using you".

Also, you can ask, why not go to the organisation and complain, why bring these things to public knowledge? Why not handle them discreetly?

The answer is simply, it had been tried many times over, it simply doesn't work. When these issues becomes a matter of public knowledge, it will force the men controlling the organisation to change or try to defend their position which will lead to more errors.
Also, more will become aware. So, it's also about creating public awareness.

Also, many before us had tried to make the men controlling the organisation to try to follow the Bible, in most cases it got them burnt severely. Late bro Ray Frank, Edward Dunlop, to name just a few, they all tried. It didn't work, neither will it work in the future. The men controlling the organisation feels they are above reproof, above corrections, they opinions are all that matters, everyone must subject to them, irrespective of whether they are wrong. So, all that remains is "make it a matter of public knowledge" , it seems to be the only thing the men controlling the organisation is afraid of.

Then the matter of take a stand, let everyone know. My guess is, you mean, "leave the organisation. Just leave and keep on your work".


My answer to that is very simply, I can't for now. I'm not ready yet to lose my family. You can make new friends, new neighbours, new love ones. But when you lose your family, you can't get them back, especially when they are under the influence of mind control techniques. So, I can't. At least for now, I am not prepared for such loss. However, I am considering my options.

Thanks for your advise anyway, I appreciate. I know you will not understand for now, because you are not in my shoes. I hope you will understand in future.

I know its a matter of time before you show the kind of person you are , didnt you say you want to follow Christ and Be his Disciple ? Lol, yet you could made that statement in red .


"The one who loves his father or mother more than me isn't worthy of me, and the one who loves a son or daughter more than me isn't worthy of me." - Matt 10:37 ISV @ the statement in red .

How can anyone take someone like you serious ?

ChristianFreedo:
Looking at the bolded, this is the part the watchtower is always eager and quick to point out. And that's the only part JWs know, isn't it?

However, note that
1. The leaders display anti-Semitism. They praise Hitler for his stands against the Jews, they also cause many witnesses to suffer by displaying extremism, even when Jesus had precisely warned his disciples that they should run to a different region if when they are persecuted in one region.


2. Who determines what is irrelevant? You? The organisation?
The readers will determine what is irrelevant and what is not. Its my work to let them know everything, both sides of the story, and what the organisation decides to hide from them.

And by the way, if they were irrelevant things, the organisation should have been the first to present them, not hide them or misrepresental them.

3. When watchtower decides to present falsehood, is it an excuse to expose it? All I can see is that you are only trying to make excuses for them.

4. To your question, where do I go to? Right? The thought stopping questions? The only question that scares people?
Forcing them to continue to slave for human organisation, an organization that views such ones as their flock, answerable to them, subject to their will.

My answers is.

Why do I need to go anywhere? Which is effectively following men? I feel no need to “go” anywhere. For I know the One who has the “sayings of everlasting life.” I appreciate the strengthening companionship of those I have with whom to associate (either personally or by websites) and hope that the future will add to my acquaintance with yet other sincere persons whose concern is for truth, not simply in doctrine, in words, but as a way of life.

I am simply trying, then, to be a Christian, a disciple of God’s Son. I cannot see why anyone would want to be anything else. I cannot understand how anyone could hope to be anything more.

You behave like a Coward , now you have edited your response , hehehehe I guess your conscience disturbs you to reason on the question .

Stop this half response ; @ Bold, who are those with whom you Choose to Associate and Study the bible ? Or you want to start a new Church ? stand up frankly ! and tell the way u intend showing your readers, dont just hide in caves if your intent is not to bring your fellow man to ruin with your mouth like an apostate - Prov 11:9

ChristianFreedo:
This is where you show you true self. And is exactly as I have known about JWs. Most are all hypocrites, living a form of godly life but when real situation occurs, they show their true self.

I answered your questions and all you can say is Noises. At least, the readers can see now that most of jws are a show.

I have no more answer for you. Those interested in know what is true will know.

You have never answered the question I asked man , dont resort to cheap emotional blackmail , Remember my first question to you Show me something better . Instead of replying you started covering your self with You are exposing etc, and been christlike . But funny enough, Christ doesnt Talk without showing the relevant way

If truly u are Christlike , I asked Which way do u intend ahowing with the post ? Till this moment u havent answer


Only for u to claim u follow Jesus, Now answer me, How do u follow Jesus ? How do u Obey the instruction that Belivers of Christ should meet together ?

Failure to reply all this means u are a slanderer AND NOT Christlike in any way cos as for Christ , he make sure he shows the way for people to follow

ChristianFreedo:
[s]

Looking at the bolded, this is the part the watchtower is always eager and quick to point out. And that's the only part JWs know, isn't it?

However, note that
1. The leaders display anti-Semitism. They praise Hitler for his stands against the Jews, they also cause many witnesses to suffer by displaying extremism, even when Jesus had precisely warned his disciples that they should run to a different region if when they are persecuted in one region.


2. Who determines what is irrelevant? You? The organisation?
The readers will determine what is irrelevant and what is not. Its my work to let them know everything, both sides of the story, and what the organisation decides to hide from them.

And by the way, if they were irrelevant things, the organisation should have been the first to present them, not hide them or misrepresental them.

3. When watchtower decides to present falsehood, is it an excuse to expose it? All I can see is that you are only trying to make excuses for them. [/s]

Noises , They didnt kill . thats what interest God Almighty .

4. To your question, where do I go to? Right? The thought stopping questions? The only question that scares people?

My answers is.

Why do I need to go anywhere? Which is effectively following men? I know he who has the sayings of everlasting life, Jesus christ. I go to him, I follow him.

How do u follow Jesus ? And how do u keep the obligation exected from belivers to always meet together ( Heb 10:24,25 ?

Am interested in your answers

ChristianFreedo:
Does being dishonest about your history help people to be drawn to God? Whatever is based on lies cannot genuinely be true. It can only cause people to have a false sense of things, which is what is happening.

Rather, exposing falsehood is a christlike thing to do. I'm exposing falsehood and will continue to. JWs of all people should understand that.

Dont deceive yourself you are only giving excuses . when Jesus expose , he show people the way . not just slandering and digging up irrelevent things like u are doing, The fact remains they didn't disobey the clear instruction to not kill. COMMENDABLE act of obedience and loyalty to God


So Man, which way do u intend to show?

ChristianFreedo:
Even if Jesus come to the earth to show you something better, you will not believe him, you will not listen to him. You will still ask him, "show me something better"

Next time comprehend well , When I said show me something better , am asking you to show us how the information you post above Encourage people in drawing close to God , what other option do you have for them ? Any suggestion to aid their search for truth ?


If u fail to answer the above, you are just a slander whose aim is to ruin his fellow man not help

olaolaking:
What you have just said is a food for taught. There is no religion that has preached and practice peace and love like these people. Unless I see. But my worries are "he is still among them, associating with them, but trying to tell us he is different from them. Is that not enough reason for him to weep for himself?

Lmao, so he is one of them ? Black sheep

olaolaking:
I think this statement suits you more.

dont mind the fellow, Slandering is their work. One beautiful thing that I admire in the Witnesses at that time is They Refuse to Kill or participate in the War . for me, its commendable.


@ op , Am askin again: Show me something better ?

frosbel2:
" I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour." - Isaiah 43:11

Isaiah 43:3
"For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I have given Egypt as your ransom, Cush and Seba in your place.

Isaiah 44:6
"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me"

Hosea 13:4
"I have been the LORD your God ever since I brought you out of Egypt. You must acknowledge no God but me, for there is no other savior "

Isaiah 45:22
"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other "

Yes, there is no other saviour Except God Almighty, the God and Father of all.


but nevertheless he can Raise up others as saviours , meanwhile he is still the source of such Salvation



Consider Judges 3:9



" And when the children of Israel cried unto Jehovah, Jehovah raised up a saviour to the children of Israel, who saved them, even Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother." - ASV




Notice here that Othniel was also regarded as a Saviour, But does that mean God is Not the Saviour considering the Big Truth that the salvation comes from him ?


So the same thing applies when God send his son as Saviour of the World . God remains the source of ALL SALVATION , but those he used in achieving his purpose can also be regarded as a " Saviour"

Junia:
The Bible says the three are one. The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit have the same nature. But The Son and The Holy Spirit are subject to The Father.
The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.
The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods.

Good night man . until u get ur proof , keep ur ideas in ur pocket

Junia:
What did the Bible mean by saying the three of them are one ??
I don't have to even mind you. You just don't know what to say again so you are trying to twist stuffs

Dont be irrational, The same Bible said A husband and wife are ONE . so ONE doesnt means God . to show you , you are the one who twist "one" to equal "one God " . liar


in cases where It implies one God , it spells it out e.g 1 Cor 8:6 it says for us there is ONE GOD , the Father . can u see how it clearly spell it so wake up from your religious slumber
in other case like Ephesians 6:4 it says the One God and Father of all . can u see how it spell out One God directly

oga , show me where it said the three of them are one God ? as u implied here

Junia

the three of them are one (God )

give me your proof for the above ?

baakus:
and if he has tested it, how would he have been so sure?

dont mind them bro, If they had been having Sex in the relationship .. its a perfect avenue for the Lady to claim This innocent man is the owner of the said pregnancy

But now, its clear He knows nothing about it , in other words, his abstinence SAVED HIM from fathering a bastard and more is The Bible allows him to divorce her on the basis of Sexual Immortality - Mat 19:9

Jabioro:
Your religious life had give you costly life experience. Your preacher and council of elders what do they got to say in this kind of situation? I guess. What God have joined together let nobody put asunder... Wicked woman.. sorry.. Learn to be liberal, Baba himself was a liberal otherwise the world would no longer exist.

What you dont understand is that in this case, the bible Allows him to divorce her if he wishes , Sexual Immorality is a Strong basis for divorce - Matt 19:9

Junia:
[s]
The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods.

Unbelieverrs and atheist will never understand this.
We know the truth and we stick by it.
We don't follow human wisdom because it is all nonsense

[/s]

abeg show me from the Bible where it says " the three of them are ONE GOD " ?

I see no reason why a man should keep pressuring a girl that said it point blank that she doesnt love you , if she doesnt, another will .

Girl I love ur sincerity unlike some who would accept him , play along , toy his feelings and break his heart later cos they don't like him from the beginning. but just keep letting him know you don't love him, One day his thinking will be activated

Junia:
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

He no get proof for his lies,
"
But the three of them are one (God) "

The quoted verse didnt say these three are "One God" , did it ?

Junia:
It seems you didn't understand what i even wrote.
Almighty God is The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost.
The Son and The Holy Spirit are subject to The Father.
The Father is the boss.

But the three of them are one (God)

Continue to deceive yourself with false assumptions, show me where the Bold is written in the bible ? or let it remain your pocket idea

Junia:
So dumb

dont be irrational

God The Father,

God 1.

God The Son

okay, God 2 .

and God The Holy Spirit.

okay, God 3

The three of Them

you agree they are three Gods.

are One.

One what ? I count three Gods now , dont tell me the tree are one God when clearly we are seeing three Gods , below is the evidence that they are not one God

The Father is the boss. The Son and The Holy spirit are subject to Him

clearly they are not one God, if they are the same God they would have had the same authority and equality BUT the above proved clearly they aint one God

Junia:

The Father is the boss. He is The One who commands everything. Both The Holy Spirit and The Son don't do things on their own.

Good @ bold , The boss is SUPREME ; the Almighty God

Junia:
Almighty God is simply The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost.
The Father's Spirit is The Holy Spirit
The Father's Word is The Son
Almighty God is not one person

the head of Christ is God 1 Cor 11:3 , Be sincere with yourself for once . Can the Almighty God have a head or authority he is subjected to ?

Junia:
God is The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost
They come together to be God and they operate differently with the same purpose.

So God The Son was with God The Father.

What is wrong with that ??

Clearly u just proved u serve Two Gods . God the son was WITH another God @ bold

Evil:

something that causes pain or sorrow or a kind of calamity . Yes , when the bible said God Create Evil (KJV ), it is right because God enforce the penalty for sin on Adam which has proved to be a calamity for mankind . ( Gen 2:7)


So, bringing Evil is not synonymous with wrongdoings . You can cause Evil (pain, sorrow) when you enforce judgement for a transgression.


But yes there are cases where God shows mercy and refuse to bring the planned Evil or refrain from causing calamity after the display of genuine repentance E.g people of Nineveh., which further reveal he is a God of Mercy.

...


The world is full of chaos and disorders right now, check the ruler . ITS SATAN ( 1 John 5:19) infact, when he offer Jesus the whole kingdom of this world . Christ didnt argue the rulership with him . a right thinking person who sees all the atrocities been commited in this world we are living in , which is ruled by Satan would know Satan is Wicked as stated in 1 John 5:19)
, that is why Jesus teach us to pray this way ... " Father ... let your kingdom come" Matt 6:9,10 , Under Gods kingdom manking will find exquisite delight ( psalm 37:9-11)

TinaAnita:
Well said. But the question that begs the answer is that can the few number of men who don't cheat go round? I'm having a hard time believing that some men don't cheat, I really wish you are right about that but it's unbelievable considering how messed up the world has become. Visit badoo and you will be so amazed that majority of the subscribers are married men and the only thing they do is hunt for sex, affairs plus nude pictures.

Well, I dont visit Badoo so as to confirm your observation .. but I know what you are saying is true, I know married men who hunt sex up and down with the regular fake line " I love my wife , am just playing with all these ones " . gosh! what a lie , you dont Hurt whom u Love or in other words when u love someone, You dont want to hurt them at all , I personally believe a man who truly loves his wife and a woman who truly loves his Husband wont even entertain the thought of another Lady or man in their midst


But like I said earlier Tina , what else do we expect from a generation where men marry for the wrong reasons .. Big bum, Big breast etc irritating isnt it , and Women marry for the wrong reasons too Looks, Riches etc .


Nevertheless we still have people who get it right or Marry and stick with their Partners . Rare but yes dear, they EXIST!

TinaAnita:
Who are the strange women? Every woman is a strange woman to the other women. So the wife of a man is a strange woman to his lover. I think life itself is strange so everything is strange.

Miss/Mrs Tina . deep down within you, you want a man who will love u with all his heart and wont cheat NOR share u with another woman , am I right ?

but You reasoned that all men are cheats because the majority do, Fact is we still have some few men who whose Conscience is still at work and would dare not hurt their Children and their wife , how would the Children feel knowing their Father shares their Mum with another woman , doesnt sound right. once again, God gave man one wife , he didn't wire him to cheat . its the immoral world we live in that encourages such in the name of pleasure . But those who fear God enjoy the best of Marriage. l

hedonistic:
But of course God is partial. It is indicated very clearly in several parts of the Bible.

My Dear, God is not partial ... why even bring God into this ? I want you to know and realize that the present world we live in is not what God planned in the beginning, " we know we originate from God , but the whole world lies in the power of the wicked one ( satan) " - 1 John 5:19 . so its not unusual that we do not have equal opportunities in this present system of things.


you are a billionare in the eyes of some people too, Many wish they could at least be sufficient to the extent that you are , Is that not the truth? see , the only solution is reveal in Jesus prayer " Father ... Let your Kingdom come and your will be done on earth - Mat 6:9 , we need Gods kingdom under which all things would be fine on earth .


But interestingly, God in his word admonish those who are rich in this system of things to be generous and be ready to share what they have with their fellow humans - 1 Timothy 6:17,18

...