₦airaland Forum

I am shocked such a topic is coming from joagbaje whose understanding of christian giving ends with giving to the church and religious leaders. It neans there is still yet hope for him.
@joagbaje
God bless you for this topic, this is what true christian giving is primarily about. At least it shows that you are learning something positive on NL

@jesoul
Personally I don't see any thing wrong with female pastors or women taking leadership roles in churches. What I don't like is the hypocrisy going on in churches and the practise of picking and choosing which biblical doctrines to follow and manipulation of scriptures to justify such.

@jesoul
As a matter of policy women do not occupy leadership roles in my church even though they speak. But then again what my church does is not what matters but what was handed down to us by the founding fathers of the church. Also note that the form and struture of early church gatherings is different to the form today. Then it was more of a meeting were believers met to discuss the word and share meals together rather than the type we have today were only the pastor and chosen officials get to speak without any fellowship meals.

@joagbaje
You keep displaying your ignorance of scriptures, are you telling me that as a pastor you have not read in the book of corinthians and Timothy written by by Apostle Paul as well that women are not allowed to speak in church or hold positions of authority over men in church effectively barring women from pastorial office. What that means in effect is that Anita is holding her pastoral office illegally and her so called calling is a fraud against the church being aided and abetted by her equally notorious and fraudulent husband.

@Deepsight
The fact is that a lot of people who read your account are doubting the authenticity of your story and they require more proof which would of course include the name of the church. Personally I don't put anything past church pastors. The case of Rev King is still fresh in our minds. This demon regularly flogged his church members, slept with member's wives to their knowledge and even murdered a church member in broad day light, he has now been convicted of murder and awaiting execution yet three years later his members still remain extremely devoted to him. So you see the pastor you are talking about is just child's play in this racket. Personally I think it would do some good if you mentioned the church and pastor. I think enough time as been given to discuss the psycology behind it which you are more interested in. I think it is time to take the discussion to the next level by revealing the missing details.

@bash demy
Even without the monthly period, the bible clearly forbids women from preaching in churches or taking leadership roles. Female pastors that we have today are clearly unbiblical.

@e3691
Hope you know it is actually a sin to add or remove from the laws of God, going by that it is actually those who are making unbiblical claims that it is a sin that are actually sinning.

Ps: kindly note that I am not advocating for polygamous marriage neither do I endorse it, but truth must be told.

Think he is the best man for the presidential job, but would Nigerians give him a chance?

No biblical evidence to support the notion that it is a sin, on the contrary several men of God in the bible had more than one wife.

Namioo:
@ KunleOshob: I was a pastor and I know what I am talking about. A great majority of them if not more than 95% are fraudsters in suit. If you hang around them I can almost guarantee you you will end up in hell.

I certainly agree with your position as i have written a good number of similar write ups in the past. The problem is that joagbaje thinks you are me using new username becos your user I.D is new. And that is why i had to address the issue above.

ps: joagabje is a pastor with christ embassy, just thought you should know when responding to his post as he is sure to defend his "profession"

Joagbaje:
Here comes Kunle again!

So any body that comes to critisize the kind of false gospel you preached is now suspected to be Kunle. My friend i don't need to put up a new username to expose the fraud going on today in the name of christianity. What you fail to realize is that more and more people today are coming to the knowledge of truth about the fraud that is becoming popular doctrine in some many churches toay. More and more christians are beginning to see the truth and are standing up to contend for the truth. I won't be suprised also if the OP is a former member of a false church like CEC and is only using a new I.D to shield himself from being harrased by former church members on this forum. I know quite a number of people who have reviewed their accepted doctrines based on truth being revealed at forums like this.

debosky:
@ Kunle

While I agree with the scripture you quoted, I would be very surprised if people now want to hear themselves called [i]b[/i]astards. . . .but then again, I might be wrong.

It's not about the insults and being called "bastard" as in the case in the original post. It is what makes people listen to these false teachers in the first instance. Like someone rightly noted, he didn't just start calling them names from day one, it must have detiorated to that level. He must have gotten them hooked to him by preaching what their "itching ears wanted to hear" and convincing them he is of God even though he he is not bearing the right fruits.

Pastor AIO:
I think that there are many here on nairaland and further afield who would testify that their understanding of scriptures has deepened by the efforts of KunleOshob. Many have written to say just as much in the past. Joagbaje, your insinuations above just won't wash.

How did i miss the above post earlier? Coming from a sound and accomplished mind like Pastor AIO i must say i feel highly appreciated. Thanx

Another scripture that addresses why people are easily manipulated in some churches today,

2 Timothy 4:1-5:

2 Timothy 4
1 I solemnly urge you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who will someday judge the living and the dead when he appears to set up his Kingdom: 2 Preach the word of God. Be prepared, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching.

3 For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will reject the truth and chase after myths. [reminds me of the so called prosperity gospel]

5 But you should keep a clear mind in every situation. Don’t be afraid of suffering for the Lord. Work at telling others the Good News, and fully carry out the ministry God has given you.


Two thousand years later and the above statement is truer than ever. Truelly prophetic!!

@Joagbaje
Also on the issue of publicly rebuking religious leaders for doing wrong, i learnt from the master himself. Please read below the public rebuke Jesus did to religious leaders like yourself and Oyaks.

Matthew 23 :

Jesus Criticizes the Religious Leaders
1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses. 3 So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don’t follow their example. For they don’t practice what they teach. 4 They crush people with unbearable religious demands and never lift a finger to ease the burden.
5 “Everything they do is for show. On their arms they wear extra wide prayer boxes with Scripture verses inside, and they wear robes with extra long tassels. 6 And they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the seats of honor in the synagogues. 7 They love to receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces, and to be called ‘Rabbi.’
8 “Don’t let anyone call you ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters. 9 And don’t address anyone here on earth as ‘Father,’ for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father. 10 And don’t let anyone call you ‘Teacher,’ for you have only one teacher, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you must be a servant. 12 But those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
13 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.
15 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! 16 “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ 17 Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. 19 How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. 21 And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. 22 And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne.
23 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things. 24 Blind guides! You strain your water so you won’t accidentally swallow a gnat, but you swallow a camel!
25 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy—full of greed and self-indulgence! 26 You blind Pharisee! First wash the inside of the cup and the dish, and then the outside will become clean, too.
27 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. 28 Outwardly you look like righteous people, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you build tombs for the prophets your ancestors killed, and you decorate the monuments of the godly people your ancestors destroyed. 30 Then you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would never have joined them in killing the prophets.’
31 “But in saying that, you testify against yourselves that you are indeed the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead and finish what your ancestors started. 33 Snakes! Sons of vipers! How will you escape the judgment of hell?
34 “Therefore, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers of religious law. But you will kill some by crucifixion, and you will flog others with whips in your synagogues, chasing them from city to city. 35 As a result, you will be held responsible for the murder of all godly people of all time—from the murder of righteous Abel to the murder of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you killed in the Temple between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 I tell you the truth, this judgment will fall on this very generation.


@Joagabje
I sincerely hope you read the above scripture word for word, you would realize that those golden words spoken 2000 years ago are still very relevant today. Today our equivalent of teachers of religious law and pharisees today are our pastors, bishops and preachers. Go figure!!

@Nuclearboy
Thanx for responding to Joagbaje on my behalf.

@Joagabje
As long as you people continue to preach errors publicly we would continue to point out the error publicly and would not shy away from describing a fraudulent action as fraud no matter whose OX is gored. As a christian i am not called to cover up the wrong doings and teachings in the body of christ, i am rather called to exposed it and preach the true gospel of christ which is purely based on love for others and NOT self interest which you preach. My decision to labell certain wrong practises in churches as fraud is actually biblical, God described priest who twist his word for money [i.e monetary tithes as opposed to the biblical agricultural produce tithe] as frauds so i am perfectly in order using that term.

Jeremiah 8:8-10:

8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,”
when your teachers have[b] twisted it by writing lies[/b]?
9 These wise teachers will fall
into the trap of their own foolishness,
for they have rejected the word of the Lord.
Are they so wise after all?
10 I will give their wives to others
and their farms to strangers.
From the least to the greatest,
their lives are ruled by greed. Yes, even my prophets and priests are like that.
They are all frauds.

Joagbaje:
We don't beg, solicit , manipulate, intimidate and extort. We simply give and honour God for blessing us. And we are not mugun.

Stop insulting God by claiming you give God money, God doesn't need your illicit money neither does the money go to Go but rather it goes towards building Oyaks personal empire and financing his vulgar life style.

Acts 17:24-25:

24 “He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples, 25 and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need.

@Poster
I feel you as well, a revolution is long over due in this country, God has his plans for these fraudsters using his name to opress the poor and amass personal fortunes for themselves. The bible already warned us about them but people would not read or study the bible to understands God's position on these issues.

Matthew 7:15-23:
15 “Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. 16 You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. 19 So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. 20 Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.21 “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

@Yommyuk
Well you may be right, but majority of pentecostal churches today are preaching false and man made doctrines and presenting i as the word of God. However i is not only the pentecostals that are to blame most church denominations have added their own doctrines to scripture and they present it as if from God. Jesus already warned us about such false teachings:

Matthew 15:8-9:

8 ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 Their worship is a farce,
for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.

@Joagbaje
I know you are incapable of learning as long as it is not coming from that your crooked mentor or written in that filthy pamphlet or erRORs.  It is clear in the scriptures i quoted that Jesus was addressing in his followers in that matthew passage warning them of false prophets like Oyaks that would emerge in these end times. Also Paul was writing to Titus warning him to silence false teachers so they don't destroy families like Oyaks is doing today. Is  the bible not meant to act as a guide and a source of knowledge o us  I see an example in the bible and teachings by our lord ad master which is relevant till christ's return and you are ignorant enough to assume he was addressing it to jews alone, i sincerely weep for the lost souls that flock your congregation a case of the blind leading the blind. And that is why people like me must continually warn brethen against ravaging wolves like you who are out to devour them. My christian conscience won't just allow me to keep quiet and watch vagabonds destroy the lives of christians.

Below is another warning which Jesus gave to protect us against vicious wolves like you and Oyaks.

Matthew 7:15:
15 “Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves.

If you like again, you can say Jesus was addressing Jews again and not his followers. I can understand your predicament becos scriptures like this exposes you and your master for what you are.

@yommyuk
Please go and read the original post on this thread again, i believe it nswers your question. On your statement on "early pentecostalism" it may interest you to know that pentecostalism in christianity is a very recent development and it did not start until the 19th century.

@Joagbaje

Here is what the bible says we should do about about false prophets.

Titus 1:11:
11 These false teachers must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching. And they do it only for money.

Jesus also warned us againts them

Matthew 24:4-5:

4 Jesus told them, “Don’t let anyone mislead you, 5 for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the annointed.’ They will deceive many

So what is the essence of all these warnings in the bible if not for us to fallprey to them? I havin studied the bible, i know fully well how to recognize and identify a false prophet. Would i be good christian if i keep the knowledge to myself and allow my fellow christian brethen to fall prey to criminals just becos most of them don't study and understand the word?

Let me give you this last verse, i think it is applicable to you and it also explains why people fall prey to these criminal elements parading themselves as men of God.

1 John 4:5: Those false prophets speak from about matters of the world [money] and the world listens to them because they belong to the world.

It's quite evident from your post that you and other prosperity preachers are very worldly

Subscribing 

Meanwhile i would give the best definition of the bible generally accepted by top theologians and the catholic church that compiled the books of the bible.
The bible is described as "The word of God written in the understanding of man" this definition is contrary to those who say it is the inerrant word of God thereby falsely removing the human element and influence in the bible. Also some meanings and interpretations have been distorted through translation errors from the original texts to the english and other languages. That is apart from the fact that there is even a statement by God in the bible that the scriptures [bible] has been twisted by fraudulent scribes.

Jeremiah 8:8-10:
8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,”
      when your scribes have[b] twisted it by writing lies[/b]?

So it is dangerous to described the bible as the innerrant word of God becos God Never said it was on the contrary there is a claim in the same bible that fraudulent scribes have twisted scriptures. That notwithstanding i find the bible as a invaluable tool to know and understand the will of God whilst allowing the holy spirit to lead me in using it. Jesus promise was that he would send the holy spirit to guide us after his acension, he never promised us a bible that would be his inerrant word. My approach as a christian is to use the principles inherent in the teachiings of Christ and use it as a guide in guiding my christian life. People have been know to known to use verses in the old testemnt of the bible to justify their evil deeds and we all know this is wrong even thoug it is justifed in the old testament.

I know some of my christian brethen like image123 are going to attack me for daring to claim that the bible is not the undiluted word of God, but i urge them that to instead of attack they should show or prove to me how it is 100% divine instead of resorting to personal attacks and insults.

What is it that makes people spell bound by these guys? And on such a mass scale? Na Jazz?

Perhaps our resident pastor here [joagbaje] would be willing to answer this question since he is involved in the racket. That aside his mentor and spiritual father is also highly skilled in making his congregation spell bound to the extent that they idolize him.

@Pastor Joe
would you be kind enough to shed light on the psycological and brainwashing tactics employed by these con men to achieve their devious objectives?

I advise that you stick to fleecing the flock. That’s one area I know you can excel. BTW I am still waiting for your thread on finance, I believe that will be more interesting.

@zikky
This is actually a thread on finance, pastor joe is talking about personal development here with the aim of "empowering" people to develop themselvesand increase their output which would translate to increased finance. It is part of the strategies of properity gospel pimps.

Image123:
Kunle,what are you doing here? This one no be tighten tithe talk o. We're talking of a violent annoyted criminal shouting "B.A.S.T.A.R.Ds, give me my offering, why are you looking at me". He should be arrested and prosecuted. I'm not a lawyer but is that not verbal assault and threat to life?help me out here deepsight

The "annointed" criminal you are talking about is the end result of the evil and manipulative prosperity gospel which is destroying christian lives today. It starts with persuation, then manipulation, then demands to outright intimidation threats and insults. The pastor in question is just carrying his own to the extreme all tithe preaching pastors are guilty of the same sin.

@Topic
Yet churches like CEC are constantly begging, soliciting, manipulating, intimidating just to extort tithes, offerings, seed sowing, first fruits and "gifts" from the gullible muguns that patronize them.

The assault christianity is suffering from within is really mind bugling and it keeps getting worse by the day. When some of us stand to point out these glaring errors and outright fraud being done in the name of God and our christian faith some so called christians attack us and accuse us of speaking against a "man of God" [that the scriptures have already condenmed by their very acts]. As for me it remains my resolute christian duty to point out the errors and out right manipulation of scriptures which has now become instutionalized in churches today and people accept cos they falsely believe they are serving God whilst ignoring the weightier matters of the christian faith. Loads of christians are being defrauded and worse still being led to perdition by these criminals parading themselves as men of God. All true christians must rise up expose and fight these criminal elements destroying the christian teachings established by our Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles, if we don't stand and fight now it would only continue to get worse. If these criminals realize that people are begining to question and expose their scams for what it is they would at least exercise restraint in perpetuating their evil activities.

Jenwitemi:
How can anyone have an "effective personality" when they have no belief in one's own self and abilities. It is quite bizarre to hear a adherent and proponent of a religion whose doctrines and goal is to strip man of all his self-belief in order for it to stay relevant, talk about developing effective personalities in human beings. What a fraud!

Pastor joe needs his congregation customers to develop themselves so they can increase their ability to make money thereby enusring that his church enjoys an increased income of tithes, offerings, seed sowing and first fruits.

No baba is not a pastor although he studied theology at the open university, he studied it as a quest for knowledge to get to know and understand his religion better and NOT to become a pastor.

[quote author=Omo_Tier1 link=topic=534756.msg7006076#msg7006076 date=1287947636]Have you taken your time to find out the number of Tv, radio (Satelite, Cable and Terrestial)stations and the internet based media this church was using to spread the word of God? If you truly do the you would realised that it was very much a possibility that this church could have a monthly bill in the tune of that amount. Think about it, how much does it cost to "STREAM" live events on the web?

I know God is rebuildng this church for the last push and I am confident that this church would rise from the ashes and display the radiance beauty of God.[/quote]Spending millions of dollars on the above listed media are a wasteful and ineffective way of spreading the gospel. What these churches are doing is creating awareness for their own "brand" and popularizing their pastor. If they truly desire to spread the gospel, the money would be much better spent on sending missionaries to the several places all over th planet that christianity is yet to reach, they should spend the money on building missionary schools and hospitals that would be free or heavily subsidized, they should spend the money on touching peoples lives doing charitable works. Spending millions of dollars to air their programmes which are being watched by people whom 99% of them have already heard and accepted the gospel is an illogical waste and at best it just fees the ego of the church / the pastor. Another terrible waste that is gettin increasingly popular in these false churches is the purchase and maintainance of private jets which they claim they are using to spread the gospel. Can you imagine how many millions of lives can be touched for christ based on the cost of buying and maintaining one private jet, yet some churches maintain a fleet of these jets and they come up with daft and stupid excuses to justify it, worse still are the gullible sheeple who are milked to finance these obscenities who instead of turning their backers on these scammers actullay idolized them.

@Pastor Joagbaje
Where you able to see Goodluck Jonathan when he visited Bayelsa last week? I heard they had a church servie in the Goverment house instead of an Anglican church in town due to security reasons, were you one of the officiating ministers at the service or are obscure churches like CEC not recognized at such events.

@Post
The question you asked is wrong and impractical, if the woman is widowed it automatically means the man is dead so he can't be marrying any body talkless of his wife's sister. However i assume you mean "late wife's sister".
Biblically speaking however, Jacob the patriach of Israel married two sisters Rachel and Leah and he didn't even have to wait for one to die before marrying the other.