₦airaland Forum

@joagbaje
I have a fairly good idea of CEC messages, I have listened to several CE programmes on TV, I have also heard personal accounts from members and best of all I have teachings from you a confirmed CEC pastor and adherent so I can safely make my conclusions. Jesus already taught us we would be able to discern false teachers by their fruits, the fruits of CEC that I see certainly qualifies the promoter as a top rate FALSE teacher.

For once I agree with joagbaje, the gospel is that of love and should be preached as such. Intimidating people thru the fear of hell would win genuine converts, it would at best convert the person on the outward whilst the inside would remain rotten. That not withstanding, the true gospel is hardly being preached or practised not even in joagbaje's religious institution which is mis-named as believer's love world.

@joagbaje
I have NEVER for once said that christians should not give to the church. What I have always maintained is that the primary objective of christian giving is to the poor and the needy and that even church collections were used to primarily take care of the poor and needy in the early church. In other wards for a christian giving to the needs of others should take priority over giving to the church institution. That is not to say you shouldn't give to the church, it is just about priotizing which is more important as taught by christ.

@Deepsight
How much in legal fees is Pastor Joe paying you for his defence?

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Radiant parish RCCG obanikoro Lagos.

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Maybe they are taught by example that stealing is a way to prosperity, after all Chris himself is a confirmed fraudulent scammer.

@Gsmexpert
Has Lazarous been bold enough to reveal the truth about the the tithes scam in churches today to his congregation? If not, he is hiding the truth like therest of them.

@joagbaje
When are you going to stop ridicling your oga on this forum? Don't you think the poor charlatan has been exposed and humilated enough on this forum, for you to be posting his twisted and shallow teachings that would soon be torn apart by better learned christians on this forum.

@nuclearboy
Brilliant sunmation, absolutely spot on. The message of the Gospel is very simple, but cos some people insist on making a business of it, they complicate it and panel beat it to say something else.

@joagbaje
Stop comparing Moses with charlatans. If forinstance I decide to give oyaks a few hot slaps for his crimes against the body of christ, the worst that would happen is that the thugs he depends on for protection would attack me.

@joagbaje
Did the bible say Solomon's genealogy was cursed or you just assumed so? If it was cursed Solomon and his descendants would never have been King over Israel and Judah. Solomon's elder brother who was conceived in adultery is the one who can be said to be cursed and God already punished David for it by taking the boy's life. There is no biblical record of curse or punishment after the boy died. If anything at all God blessed the union of David a Basheba by blessing them with more sons and choosing David's successor[Solomon] from amongst their sons.

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According to Mahatma Ghandi a non christian, if we practise true christianity we would solve not only the problems of his country India, we would solve the problems of the whole world. True christianity is not only possible, it is extremely desirable and we would all be better off for it.

Abeg, help me tell them O!

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@sarmy
I feel you, keep on preaching the true gospel brother!

@seyibrown
I don't believe in marrying more than one wife but there nowhere in the bible that it is described as a sin. I would live it at that.

The "church" should first cleanse itself of false teachings, iniquities and corruption. Then we would gladly edify it. Mind you the true church of christ which is the body of christ remains eternally edified.

@seyibrown
According to the Strong's bible concordance which translates the bible from the original hebrew/greek text adultery is defined as "when a woman breaks wedlock" and not when either of the couples break it. Adultery only happens when a married woman is involved and that is why men of God in the bible could have more than one wife and in some cases even concubines. The truth is that what holds for the woman is not what holds for the man biblical. The man is seen as the owner of the wife and the man could decide to stick to one wife or acquire more.

@seyibrown
Sins are clearly stated in the bible NOT hinted. Your concept of hints allows men to force their opinions into scriptures. Else christians could use the examples of Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon. Who were all great men of God and had multiple wives as "hints" it is ok to have more than one wife.

Unfortunately most preachers no longer teach true christian but rather man made doctrines being presented as the word of God. Matthew 15:8-9

@joagbaje
Is it the devil or your god mamon that continuosly pushes you to butcher scriptures like this Deut 14:22 makes it clear that it is the yearly tithes that shd be eaten wilst verse 28 of the same passage asked the israelites to remember firstly the poor before the levites in the third year, a caveat was even given for remembering the levite being they had no inheritance. That caveat is not being put into practise today by the criminals that demand tithes. But then again those scriptures and malachi 3:10 are not relevant to us today as God NEVER asked christians to tithe. Tithing today is a false and fraudulent doctrine designed by men and that is why it bears no semblence the various examples of tithes instructed to the acient israelites.

More biblical warnings against cruel and greedy preachers/people.
Proverbs 30:14-15: There are people who take cruel advantage of the poor and the needy; that is the wat they make their living[sounds familiar] 15 A leech has two daughters and both are named "give me!"

We can safely conclude from the above that any person or institution whose teachings on giving is primarily to give to them are leeches. This reminds me of several of my friends who have left CEC becos of the leech like behaviour of CEC on their resources. Their complaint was that they were being manipulated to give 40-50% of their income to CE under various scams such as tithes, first fruit, offer 7, partnership offering, seed sowing etc without the promised benefits ever materializing in their life. Only the chief leech [oyakhilome] and his cohorts were prosperity whilst majority of the members who are poor and wretched remained in their abject poverty.

@newmi
I wld appreciate it if you stopped refering to me as young man as it is highly unlikely you are as old as myself. That aside unlike you and joagbaje, I have always been an advocate of true christian giving on this forum which means giving to the poor and less priviledged. I can only pray that joagbaje means what he wrote on this thread becos being a CE pastor means that he has been trained in the art of manipulative hypocrisy like his oga oyaks.

@joagbaje
Trust you to go and look for bible version with poor and manipulative translation to prove your assertions, which version is TLB again? Was it written by pastor chris? You keep demonstrating your penchant for butchering scriptures which you disdain. May God save you from this hypocrisy you involve yourself with just to keep food on the table.

@joagbaje
You are a misreable and shameless liar, the scripture in proverbs I quoted had absolutely nothing to do with bribery when read in proper context and YES God hates the giving of the wicked especially when done with evil motivess [expecting returns] if you don't like it you can rip that passage off yor bible but stop twisting scriptures here. We are not your average daft and deluded CEC customer who can't read and understand scriptures with consulting rapshody of erRORs. That aside I am not a lecturer neither do I deal with students so the issue of selling hand outs suggested by an equally daft poster does not arise. As far as prosperity is concerned, you don't want to even go there, but I would not be tempted to brag like you on this forum.

@mummykia
I wouldn't bother debating this tithe issue with joagbaje if I were you. Joagbaje is a pastor with CEC and he is a big time beneficiary of this illegal tithes, he depends on the scam for a living and as you may already be aware his church is notorious for distorting the truth and mamon worship so it would be almost impossible to get the truth from him as far as this filthy lucre is concerned.

@deelady
Your pastor is the last person you should consult on this issue, he is a beneficiary of the subject matter. He is almost certain to be biase and manipulate scriptures further to justify the collection of tithes by churches.

@joagbaje
I just came across the scripture below and decided to share it with you. It might perhaps explain why majority of CEC members remain poor despite all their gifts to pastor chris who is already very rich.

Proverbs 22:16 If you make gifts to rich people or oppress the poor to get rich, you will become poor yourself.

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Surely there is a curse for giving to rich men like pastor chris and other super "rich men of God"

Proverbs 21:27 The lord hates it when wicked men offer him sacrifices, especially if they do it from evil motives.

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I think the verse above address those who "give" to God in anticipation of multiple returns.

@joagbaje
Your above explanation does noþ suffice as Paul was addressing the people of corinth in that scripture and not jewish people who were familiar with the jewish way of worshipping.

@Pastor aio
thanx for bringing u the Samuel example, i was going to bring it up as well earlier but i was feeling lazy cos i was browsing with my mobile phone and won't have been able to quote the relevant scriptures. Now going by the Samuel example of dedication, won't it be apt to describe the type of dedication we do today as a Joke? I mean Samuel was handed over to the temple priest as soon as he was weaned from his mum so he can be brought up and live a life completely dedicated to God in the temple. What we do today does not exemplify real dedication,i would rather call it a church tradition. Anyway i have nothing against dedication of children in churches today but i think it would be better labelled "special baby thanks giving" / special prayers to God for the life and future of the baby. That would beter reflect what is actually happening which is different to the Samuel/Biblical example of dedication.

@All
Even though the type of dedication we do today lacks sound biblical basis, it does not mean it is wrong as long as it does not contradict any biblical principle or is being used to manipulate the flock. We can not say that every single thing we do must be found in the bible. There are loads of christian traditions handed down to us that are not necessarily biblical like christmas and easter that we practise today and are not regarded as wrong.

@nuclearboy
You miss my point, what I was commending was his thorough analysis of the reason why churches behave in rather unbiblical ways. It does not suggest in anyway that I even remotely endorse or agree with such practises. I was simply commending his analysis.

@Jesoul
The teachings of christ makes it clear that all christian commandments are based on two principles namely "love for God" and "love for our fellow men". To me any doctrine that doesn't fall under these principles is either false or no longer valid. I recommend to fellow christians to base their doctrines on these commandments which Jesus described as the greatest commandments. All laws and commandments fall under the LOVE principle.

Well I would assume Paul was talking within the construct of a culture that was intolerant to female leadership which is different from our culture today which is much more tolerant of it. That aside there is no indication Paul was giving a commandment from God rather he was talking from his position as a leader of the churches in question.