₦airaland Forum

Osama10:
Body no be fire wood now.

[quote author=bashy_demy link=topic=537877.msg7002641#msg7002641 date=1287890290]@ what age?[/quote]

Osama10:
My uncle in his 80's is still very active sexually.

At old age what one really soughts in marriage is companionship and NOT just sex. Sex is secondary at that age, i would mute that this marriage is more of a companionship thing than sex. Congrats to the General Superintedent, maybe this time around baba would relax on the stringent doctrines he preaches in his church.

Enigma:
@ Pasiitor Joagbaje

Oh definitely, I want to ridicule you and your boss, your teacher in fleecing the flock. Here goes:

We have no clue when or by whom he was ordained. He is currently not accountable to anyone - whether pastoral or laity!

In other words and by your own criteria he (Chris oyakhilome) is a spiritual vagabond.

Joagbaje NEVER fails to shoot himself in the foot . Solid confirmation that Chris is a spiritual vagabond coming from one of his disciples. This what you get when you consistently twist scriptures it would turn back to point at you.

Joagbaje:
Let us deal with facts.He didn't stage miracles. What's your source of information ? Pastor chris had been working miracles ,early in life.there was no doubt of the call upon him. The miracles shown are people with identity. If a man was said to never have walked before. He has family friends and neighbour that could have exclaimed "that's a lie" why not investigate to their houses. Neighbours will not lie,
On what ground do you determine the call of God upon a person.?

Is that why in over two decades of his "ministry" not one single case of indepently verifiable miracles has been established? When NBC challenged him to air only verifiable miracles why did he not take up the challenge rather than being bullied to go off the air? Why didn't he just verify his miracles and go on showing his so called "atmosphere for miracles" your man is a charlatan and a scammer and you knowit.

Joagbaje:
He had had his foundations under the pastorate in assemblies. He had been influenced by archbishop . And also TL OSBORNE Made evangelistic impact on him. But he had his foundation in assembly

^^^^
At least now we know that the holy spirit had no part in his "calling", did the above people also teach him how to stage miracles? Where did he get the healing school idea from? It seems unique to him.

Joagbaje:
Pastor chris was raised under generations of pastors and ministers in assembles of God. His grandfather, great grandfather brought assemblies of God church to Nigeria. He grew up in church and got born again early. He was a child evangelist. H He started holding crusades from his teens. He was also greatly influenced by arch bishop idahosa in his teenage years, he even once worked partially with them in the bible school briefly and had opportunity to see crusades and miracles in pictures inside archbishop office. He said he used to be in tears looking at those pictures of how God could used a man that much.

He started his own crusades in villages , recorded miracles as well. And all his friends then who are pastors in other ministries today will tell you he had been working miracles since they knew him in early 80s.

What the whole world see in his ministry today are fulfiment of prophecies and his faithfulness to the course of the gospel. So he's not one man that made money in America and came to start fanciful church. He grew up under the "old time religion". And now by the holyghost he knows the difference.

So pastor chris trained under the very man that started the ridicling of christianity in Nigeria through his fake miracles and money gospel, no wonder he is soo dishonest.

yommyuk:
I for one would not generalize but individualize

It's not about generalizing or individualizing, it is about wether core pentecostal doctrines conforms to the true teachings of our lord Jesus Christ. On close scrutiny which was beautifully itemized by the OP they fall way below the mark of being describe as people who are christlike and as such christians.

toba:
Let me share a personal experience. In jan 2007, i sold a honda accord hala for N100,000&bought same in 1999 for N430,000. The first sunday in february, i paid N10,000 as tithe. To date, i have no regret cos i ve been blessed more now than then. A church member took a loan to execute a contract, N30,000,000&first paid N3,000,000 as tithe(2008). Today hes one of the richest in the assembly.

The highlighted above is a very good example of false, twisted and mis-leading testimony. For the man to be in a position to take a N30,000,000 loan he must have been a relatively rich man in the first instance and we all know that in Nigeria people make as much as 100-200% margins on contracts depending on who gave the contract. So if he made N60,000,000 from the contract is no biggy. better still he could have settled those who gave him the contract to ensure he gets such jobs regularly so how won't he be a able to grow his riches. Ascribing his wealth to the ill conceived tithes he paid is very dis-honest and mis-leading.

@Post
These are the kind of questions hat comes up when scriptures are manipulated to suit the whims and caprices of preachers, ideally what should guide us is what the bible says. Is there a single example of anybody selling his/her property in the bible and paying a tithe out of it infact is there even a single example of anybody paying monetary tithes in the bible if we learn to read our bibles well and depend it for guidiance without infusing hubris into it, one would learn that as a christian you have know business paying tithes of income talkless of on sale of property.

newmi:
l think you all should be ashamed of yourselves especially the majority who take delight and derive fun in simply spending time to meaninglessly and fruitlessly aguing. Come and tell us the number of lives you are changing and affecting for Christ, imagine how satan don give una so-called self aclaimed religious socrataces work since 2008, shame no dey catch una

On the contrary we are doing a huge service for christ here by exposing the wolves in sheeps clothing devouring the flock of christ. You would be amazed how many people have come to the light of truth about CEC and other fraudulent churches and decided to flee them based on what we write here. I think we actually should be given our own IPPC awards for the good job we are doing on this form.

@sirjohn
unclekuns@yahoo.com cheers

I see another can of CEC worms is about to be open.
Abeg make i take front row sit.

@sirjohn
Eagerly waiting for the expose.

[quote author=siyanda.N link=topic=193649.msg6983423#msg6983423 date=1287646780]Do you know that tithing is not mentioned even once after the day of Pentecost (when the new covenant was instituted)? Tithing is not commanded under the new covenant at all – yet multitudes of covetous pastors still preach it today and exploit poor, ignorant believers. Jesus did not teach His disciples to tithe but to give. What do we have to give to God first of all? Romans 12:1 states, "I beseech you, brethren, by the mercies of God, present your bodies (not your tithes) as a living sacrifice to God."[/quote]Actually tithes was mentioned once in scriptures after the day of pentecost. It was actually anulled and described as a weak useless and unprofitable law. Most pastor like Joagbaje know this scripture but they would rather ignore it or manipulate it since it is bad for business. I would reproduce the scripture below:

Hebrews 7:5-19:

5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

6But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

7And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

8And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

11If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13For he [jesus]of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. [Implying that even Jesus is not entitled to tithes since he is not a levite, how much less the criminals claiming to represent him]
15And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

17For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

18For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

This thread was resucitated to show prophet Joagbaje that the bible predicted about him and his mentors centuries before they were born. It's nenver too late to repent and trun to the way of God sha, Joagbaje we would continue to pray for the redemption of your lost soul.

Mmmmh  this thread brings nostalgic memories, when nairaland religious section was still hot, thought i'd resucitate it so baby christians like Joagbaje can learn from it and perhaps get to understand what the true gospel of Jesus Christ is all about.

SirJohn:
This will be the gazillionth time I'll be asking this:
You talked about benefits of tithing and I asked you:
1.What benefit do you enjoy as a tither that I SirJohn CANNOT enjoy?

@Sirjohn
What you fail to realize is that Joagaje is talking from the position of a receiver of tithes and NOT a giver as he falsely tries to mis-represent. As such the benefits he realizes is the tithes itself which is awoof money scammed of the sweat of muguns that flock his church.

SirJohn:
2. Are you saying that as a tither you do not experience loss of any kind since the devourer is rebuked for your sake?

Even if he experiences any loss, all he has to do is announce it in church the following sunday and you would see muguns in his church struggling with themselves to make good his loss cos they have all been conditioned and brainwashed into believing God would give them extra blessings if they sow into the life of their pastor.

Also don't forget Pastor Agbaje has strong connections in Aso rock, he might not have to go far to make good his losses all he has to d is "prophesy" that Goodluck would win the 2011 presidential elections

Joagbaje:
Sorry what I really mean is that, I don't get notifications for every posts made on some threads. And by this I miss out of some posts I should have responded to. I only want to know if I'm supposed to get notifications for every post on every thread I'm part of or moderators just send notifications once in a while randomly or if moderators only send notifications only concerning posts that they require such poster response .thanks

Not only is your understanding of scriptures poor and pathetic, your knowledge of I.T is also amazingly shallow. Notifications are sent automatically and NOT by moderators. The system automatically sends notifications to you if there is a new comment on any thread you have commnted on, however some of the notifications is filtered as "spam" by yahoo or whatever account you are using so the notification might not appear in yur inbox all the time. Some of them end up in your spam box.

newmi:
one of the most appropriate places to talk about money on earth is the church, if anybody is angry about is let him kiss the sun black in a bright noon day. So if you want to critisize be complete and logical.

The devil himself has really taken residence in some of these so called churches, how does the hubris above stand in the face of scripture?

1 Timothy 6:10-11:
10 For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows

I wonder how a church can rake up $ 2million dollars in monthly overheads i know they woul claim they are using it to spread the gospel but on closer look you would discover that the case is otherwise.

[quote author=siyanda.N link=topic=193649.msg6971987#msg6971987 date=1287498442]I do not give to give back. I could have stayed at CE and ride on Chris telling us by giving him I would get 100 fold back. Unlike you that is not what I wanted. I wanted to give because God moved me not expecting to get back. seeing homeless people receive a meal, smiling and thanking us put joy in my heart. Seeing orphans off loading food to their homes in jubilation puts joy in my heart. Seeing the elderly telling you thank you they can now have coffeee put joy in my house. Hearing old man 70 to 90 years calling you my child May God Bless you saying May I not die puts joy in my heart. And I then turn around and God loves you that is why I am here!

To me It is ENOUGH that I made them happy, it is enough that I told the about Jesus.[/quote]The above highlighted is what true christian giving is all about and it should give us Joy to see the the needy being helped, that is what we have been called out as christians to do. May God bless you richly for this post.

Crystal Cathedral megachurch files for bankruptcy

GARDEN GROVE, Calif. – Crystal Cathedral, the megachurch birthplace of the televangelist show "Hour of Power," filed for bankruptcy Monday in Southern California after struggling to emerge from debt that exceeds $43 million.

In addition to a $36 million mortgage, the Orange County-based church owes $7.5 million to several hundred vendors for services ranging from advertising to the use of live animals in Easter and Christmas services.

The church had been negotiating a repayment plan with vendors, but several filed lawsuits seeking quicker payment, which prompted a coalition formed by creditors to fall apart.

"Tough times never last, every storm comes to an end. Right now, people need to hear that message more than ever," Sheila Schuller Coleman, the Cathedral's senior pastor and daughter of the founder, told reporters outside the worship hall decked with a soaring glass spire.

"Everybody is hurting today. We are no exception," she said.

The church, founded in the mid-1950s by the Rev. Robert H. Schuller Sr., has already ordered major layoffs, cut the number of stations airing the "Hour of Power" and sold property to stay afloat.

In addition, the 10,000-member church canceled this year's "Glory of Easter" pageant, which attracts thousands of visitors and is a regional holiday staple.

The church was founded at a drive-in theater and attracted congregants with its sermons on the power of positive thinking. Its worship hall opened in 1970 and remains an architectural wonder and tourist destination.

The "Hour of Power" telecast, filmed in the cathedral's main sanctuary, at one point attracted 1.3 million viewers in 156 countries.

Church leaders said the Crystal Cathedral's Sunday services and weekly-telecast "Hour of Power" will continue while in bankruptcy.
Other megachurches have also suffered from the downturn and reduced charitable giving. 


Crystal Cathedral saw revenue drop roughly 30 percent in 2009 and simply couldn't slash expenses quickly enough to avoid accruing the debt, said Jim Penner, a church pastor and executive producer of the "Hour of Power."

Vendors owed money by the church formed a committee in April and agreed to a moratorium to negotiate a repayment plan with the Crystal Cathedral. But after several filed lawsuits and obtained writs of attachment to try to collect their cash, it was difficult to keep the group together, Penner said.

Now, the church is avoiding credit entirely and spends only the roughly $2 million it receives each month in donations and revenue, Penner said. The church still hopes to pay all of the vendors back in full, he said.

"What we're doing now is we're trying to walk what we preach, we're paying cash for things as we go," he said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101018/ap_on_re_us/us_crystal_cathedral

This is what happens when a church is turned into a business concern, its inevitable that businesses like CEC plc would end up this way

Joagbaje:
@syanda
I'm still waiting for your response to my question. Don't try to dodge it with new post.
I asked you a question before, in your new found church you are boasting about, do you tithe or give offering there?
What does you new pastor teach about tithes and offering? What's his view. Please respond syanda.

I have given an answer to the above on behalf of syanda, why don't you address it?

KunleOshob:
@joagbaje
I can proudly tell you my own pastor teachings vehemently against tithing. He confirmed to me that pastors that preach tithing are either ignorant of the new covenant or they are just exploiting the ignorance of their members.

^^^
@siyanda
thanx for the brilliant and apt response above.  

@Joagbaje

Joagbaje:
. You need to be born again to start with. So You are not in a place to scrutinise a church. There is no explanation that can suffice.

1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know[ them], because they are spiritually discerned.

We give God our best. We may start litle as our best , grace increase and we give bigger. The one that gives little gives his best, the one that give bigger gives his best too. If everyone is allowed to come. There would be no space. If pastor christ is as carnal as you think, he should have allowed all to come. More congregation more money! Is that not your philosophy ? . You should see your inconsistency here. If we talk of church growth and attendance , you say it's wrong it's because of money they gather many crowd. Now , crowd is restricted , you say they should allow more in. Because it's ----

Omo aráyé, e fé Pa kété kété ni?

Pastor Chris is restricting people from coming as a ploy to make them feel bad and increase their efforts in contributing money to him, it's all psycology the muguns are made to feel they are missing out on something as a result of being denied entry to the charade, they would increase their efforts in giving to Chris even if they have to steal or commit fraud in the cause of the year just so they can feel among. If pastor chris wasn't such a rogue and sooo carnal, he would NEVER have used money to as criteria to determine who should be recognized.

@joagbaje
Have ever read the scriptures on the widow's mite and how the little she gave was more valuable in God's sight than the "plenty" pharisees like urself were giving. Further evidence that the spirit behind the IPPC is contrary to the will of God.

@joagbaje
I can proudly tell you my own pastor teachings vehemently against tithing. He confirmed to me that pastors that preach tithing are either ignorant of the new covenant or they are just exploiting the ignorance of their members.

^^^
All the mentors of pastor chris you mentioned above are also false prophets but we would rather concentrate on pastor chris here cos this is a Nigerian forum.

@bash demy
Going by your logic full time pastors who are getting paid for their work should not expect any blessings from God since they are all ready getting paid for it.

Joagbaje:
I would rather wish you post a link to the particular article of your reference. Because when I googled your title hundreds of topics came up

The standard Babylonian one-tenth tax
Hebrew was a Semitic language, related to Akkadian the lingua franca of that time. An Akkadian noun that Abraham was intimately familiar with given his Babylonian background was esretu "one-tenth." By the time of Abraham, this was all one had to say to mean the "one-tenth tax," or "tithe." The word "tax" no longer had to be said for everyone to understand that "tithe" was meant. Listed below are some specific instances of the Mesopotamian tithe, taken from The Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, Vol. 4 "E":

[Referring to a ten per cent tax levied on garments by the local ruler:] "the palace has taken eight garments as your tithe (on 85 garments)"

", eleven garments as tithe (on 112 garments)"
", (the sun-god) Shamash demands the tithe, "
"four minas of silver, the tithe of [the gods] Bel, Nabu, and Nergal, "
", he has paid, in addition to the tithe for Ninurta, the tax of the gardiner"
", the tithe of the chief accountant, he has delivered it to [the sun-god] Shamash"
", why do you not pay the tithe to the Lady-of-Uruk?"
", (a man) owes barley and dates as balance of the tithe of the **years three and four"
", the tithe of the king on barley of the town, "
", with regard to the elders of the city whom (the king) has **summoned to (pay) tithe, "
", the collector of the tithe of the country Sumundar, "
", (the official Ebabbar in Sippar) who is in charge of the tithe, "
Thus Abraham did not need to make up a new tax (a "tithe", nor did he have to make up "one-tenth" as the amount of the tax. He did not have to make a "lucky guess," nor depend upon divine revelation to provide him with the tax and amount. Esretu was the standard word for "tax" in his homeland. The tithe, the Babylonian one-tenth tax, was simply part and parcel of the cultural baggage Abraham brought with him from Mesopotamia. He was without any doubt at all completely familiar with the concept of giving up ten-percent of whatever goods as tax.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Tithe

You can see from the above that the mesopotamians were tithing to the sun god shamash long before abraham copied the tradition.

Joagbaje:
Olodo! This is very embarrassing! So you are saying we should sow the word back to the person who has taught us the word. So you can't even understand simple scripture yet you are busy attacking a man of God!.

I will admonish you to read it up in other translation and comment on it again.

Joagbaje:
Kunleoshob and Sirjohn
Let me clear some issues with this insultive syanda . I will respond to you.

I would rather you address the issues raised in siyands's previous post with biblical backing than you resorting to evesive tactics. The bible made it clear that it is the word that is being sown in that passage a not money, the onus is on you to prove otherwise rather than resorting to insulting him back.

Joagbaje:
Tithing was a revelation of God to men of faith. It doesn't have to be a law. It's a worship. Offering also is a worship by the revelation of God, prayer also is by the revelation of God. They all have their benefit. If you don't believe in tithing , no qualms, you only miss the grace and benefit that goes with it . That's simple enough.   Even if pastor chris says he doesn't thithe again , I will still tithe because I'm convince personally.

Abraham tithing or the offering of his son was not work but a demonstration of Gods lordship over his life. Come on . Tithe is so small for argument . It is the least of my giving and when I give tithe I give more than ten percent. That's just me.

Please show biblical evidence to suppurt the hubris highlighted above, cos as far as the bible is concerned God had nothing to do with Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek abraham did it of his own free volition based on the customs of that time were he came from. Maybe this would be a good time to direct you to do some research on tithes which was first started in the land of Mesopotamia [amongst pagans] were Abraham came from. You may wish to google search "mesopotamian tithe" for you to know the true origins of the tithing. Abraham tithed to the King of Salem becos it was customary to give tithes [tax] to Kings at that time.

SirJohn:
The the high point of the 'show' is the award ceremony where top givers are rewarded with plaques certificates and 'presidential' handshake while others look on and applaud. In CE, cell leaders, PCU and PCF leaders slave all through the year bringing more customers members to the church but hard work in CE means nothing unless you give money so all you need to do to come so close as getting a handshake from Chris is give give give and give in millions.

The highlighted above explains aptly why the lawrence agadas of this world would steal their employer's money strictly for the purpose of giving it to chris.

@Joagbaje
I know pastor chris understanding of the scriptures is quite shallow but you can do him a favour a show him the passage belwo so he can learn that jamborees such as IPPC are unchristlike practises and at best paganistic.

James 2:1-9:
A Warning against discrimination
1 My dear brothers and sisters, how can you claim to have faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ if you favor some people over others?

2 For example, suppose someone comes into your meeting dressed in fancy clothes and expensive jewelry, and another comes in who is poor and dressed in dirty clothes. 3 If you give special attention and a good seat to the rich person, but you say to the poor one, “You can stand over there, or else sit on the floor”—well, 4 doesn’t this discrimination show that your judgments are guided by evil motives?

5 Listen to me, dear brothers and sisters. Hasn’t God chosen the poor in this world to be rich in faith? Aren’t they the ones who will inherit the Kingdom he promised to those who love him? 6 But you dishonor the poor! Isn’t it the rich who oppress you and drag you into court? 7 Aren’t they the ones who slander Jesus Christ, whose noble name you bear?

8 Yes indeed, it is good when you obey the royal law as found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 9 But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law.



A proper understanding of the sriptures above would reveal that the whole concept of IPPC is a sin and an abomination in the sight of God. But then again i know pastor money bags well he would say that James was a baby christian and he does not understand the word of God like pastor chris does.

^^^
You must give it up for pastor chris sha, the rogue is really ingenious when it comes to coming up with new strategies of scamming money from the several gullible muguns that flock his "church".

Abi oh OBJ is the greatest leader Nigeria has ever had yet some ignoramus who rather concentrate on his few flaws than give the men his deserved credit.