₦airaland Forum

OLAADEGBU:
In Christ we are sheltered under the umbrella of grace from the rain of the wrath of the Law. Jesus Himself said that He had not come to do away with the Law. Christians establish the Law in Christ (Romans 3:31). We corroborate it. It still remains as the standard of God's righteousness and it will be the means by which He will judge the world.

Thanx for this but i would like to corroborate that the laws of christ are not the same as the Jewish laws. Jesus summarized the laws into two namely to love God and to love our fellow men. He removed dogmatism from the law instead and emphasized the princples of it which is based on love. Belief in christ is about obeying his commandments if we fail to obey this commandments then we are not of him and our faith is in vain.

@viaro
I would be back to address your utterances later i don't really have much time to do that now.

JaguaNana:
Is Viaro = Pilgrim 1

My exact suspisions for a newbie to post over 61 posts within 24 hrs of registering is truly pilgrim.1 like.

kola oloye:
Says who?

It was a simple question that requires simple answer.
@ OP,
NO

Why do you say no? Are you saying that it is only prostitutes that are smart enough not to fall for this tithing scam even armed robbers pray for a successful operation before embarking on their evil acts and they come back and give a tithe to their Woli for praying for them.

viaro:
Kunle, please drop the ego. You don't seem capable of a good debate - and nothing you have argued before is new. Before posting my reply here, I read through your comments and then followed your advice to go read your "flagship post". Already, I saw so many inconsistencies there that I've seen in the arguments of other anti-tithers.

I would take an exception to this particular attack for now and hope it does not grow into more provocative attacks.

banom:
I know that most drug dealers pay their tithes after a successful trip, i was wondering if prostitutes pay tithes as well after hustling.

And will God accept such tithes ?

Would you stop this mockery apart from the fact that tithing is a scam in christianity the christian God does not expect any form of giving to himself from us as it is totally impossible and illogical what he expects us to do is to give to help on another. The scripture below would put things in clearer perspective.
Acts 17:24-25:
24 “He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples, 25 and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need.
This scripture also speaks against "house of God" which churches claim to be these days. That apart prostituition is a sin and against the will of God. How ever churches like christ embassy collect illicit money from crimes given to them [ remember the sheraton issue] so bearing the in mind i know a lot of our criminally motivated pastors would definitely collect money from prostitutes. however please note that they are NOT doing it on behalf of God rather they are doing it becos their love for filhthy lucre.

Matthew 24:23 “Then if anyone tells you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah,’ or ‘There he is,’ don’t believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones. 25 See, I have warned you about this ahead of time.

Even the very elect[chosen ones] are in danger of being deceived yet several clowns on this forum think they cannot be deceived. Verse 25 says christ as warned us ahead of time but how many of us heed this warning All these false prophets preach what christ and the apostles NEVER preached and they twist outdated old testament doctrines such as tithes, first fruit and seed sowing and other heretic doctrines to scam their congrgation. Anyone who genuinely wants to follow christ must as matter of compulsion read through all the gospel and make christ's teachings the centre of his christian life. when you begin to do this you would come to the knowledge of truth of what true christianity is.

Matthew 24: 10
And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. 11 And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. 12 Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

The prophesy above is being fullied today even here on nairaland. There is hatred today even amongst so called christians who would rather follow the teachings of their pastors than the true word of God. Love has gone cold in christianity and it is a selfish version being preached today on like the selfless version christ preached. As it has been highlighed above many people are evidently being successfully decieved by false prophets even on this forum.

At this stage i would leave image123 to his delusions i need to go take a cold bottle of beer

@Viaro
Before i start this debate with you, could you let me know your basis for tithing? Do you believe it is a christian requirement? If so on what scriptural basis do you draw your assumptions? How did the bible even direct the jew to give their[not pay] tithes? Is there any where in the bible were christians were asked to tithe? Is the law still in operation? if not why single ourt one aspect of the law to implement? Tha apotles where charged to spread the gosple and establish christianity how come none of them ever taught tithes as a christian requirement especially poslte paul who was a jewish pharisees and by extention a former tither? Please note that apostle Paul preached mostly to gentiles who were not aware of the Jewish tradition of tithes, so it only makes sense he would have mentioned it in at least one of the several books he wrote to admonish the young christians he converted. Or are we saying that our mordern day pastors know God's will more than the apostles that worked directly with christ. Please answer this few questions first {if you can} and lets see how this heretic practise can be justified using undiluted scripture.

Also read deuteronomy 14:22-29 so as to know how the bible recommends that tithing should be implemented. That is apart from the fact that tithing was out lawed for christians and described as a weak, useless and unprofitable law in the book of hebrew 7:5-19

bawomolo:
where is kunle to support it's claim that evolution is unproven?

where u at.

I am here oh, even science does not claim that evolution has been proven and that it why it is classified as a theory[postulation] and not a law. What is assumed to be evidence for evolution are just mere minor adaptions which the intelligent designer[AKA creator] programmed into each creation to enable creatures adapt to the changing occurences in their environment and thus ensure there survival. Evidence for adaption is in us humans for example i.e difference races of humans. Adaptation is valed is an accepted scientific fact. But evolutuionist not satified with that strecth adaption into evolution even though there is no proof or basis for it they come up with the twisted logic that if an organism can adapt over a few generations over a longer period of time it should evovle into a completely different species, this is just utterly stupid. Common sense dictates that there is a level an organism would adapt to and adaptation does not mean changing your specie . And there still remains no single iota of evidence that one species as evolved into another even at the genetic/DNA level.

Image123:
Rabzy and co,
It's rather obvious that you didn't read the link/book that I referred you to OR you read it and fermented it. Are you aware that wine can be kept from fermenting? Are you aware that grape juice doesn't naturally become what you call 'wine',it has to be induced to become 'wine'. Grape juice that is left to naturally ferment becomes vinegar,not fermented wine. There is something called food preservation, grape juice was preserved. They couldn't preserve as efficiently as we can in the modern world,but they did preserve. And that's why they were always extra careful not to take too much of wine(even new) because their wineskins were not labeled non-alcoholic or 4% alcohol content or such like,as we can label today. Wine was always in danger of fermenting,just like fish is in danger of spoiling. But it could be preserved to an extent for decent periods. It was not COMMON/normal to be drunk in Israel,it was gentiles and lawless jews who had respect for old wine. Jews always cherished new wine ahead of any other.
Lees is insoluble matter that settles from A LIQUID,especially from wine;sediments;dregs.
It says especially,NOT always. Insoluble matter also settles from orange juice, fresh grape juice, crudeoil, fermented wine and many other LIQUIDs. It doesn't have to be only from FERMENTED wine.

So i guess it was grape juice Jesus was accused of being drunk with in luke 7:33-34

@Viaro
Since you are new to this forum, you may not be aware that a lot as already been said on tithes on this forum and there have been several heated debates on the subject. It has also been firmly established that the scriptural basis for tithing today in our churches as it is prctised today is very weak in the very least and at best unscriptural. Before we start any fresh debate[ as i am always ready and eager to thrash out this issue of tithes] i would encouraged you to read my flagship post on tithes in this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113108.0.html and the subsequent debates thereafter, if you have any issues then we can take it up from there. Happy reading

chukwudi44:
@tonye-t

why don't you explain why Paul disobeyed God's command by not asking his congregation to tithe,instead of fending for himself ?

Please Ihave asked this question several times and am still begging for aswers

Hopw come the tithing frequency was increased from once in three years(deut 14;28,deut 26;12) mentioned in the bible to the unbiblical weekly monthly and daily tithing practised today ?

I am sure by now you would realize that this simple question cannot be answered based on scripture as even pro-ithers now now that tithing today is based on twisting and manipulation of the scripture to suit their lust for filthy lucre.

noetic15:
On the contrary, your post simply supports the fact that I am an objective person.
1. Heaven is the creation and home of Jesus. . . Jesus is also the ONLY onw who ever promised anyone a place in heaven. The same Jesus clearly stated rules with regards to admission into heaven. I think it is objective to state that Dalai Lama and Ghandi should not be bothered about heaven since they do not believe in it. . . . . but if they bothered about heaven as promised by Jesus. . . then one can objectively state that they are both candidates of hell. . . . .this is no dogma, its as simple as the rules with regards to admission into heaven.
If the subject was allah's paradise, then all one has to do is to be a terrorist and kill in the name of allah. . . . . . that way he gets to paradise. There is no dogma about it. . . .allah has stated his rules for his sexual infested paradise.

2. I have heard people say that theists cannot be objective, just like u have also asserted. I disagree simply because, I have NEVER been asked any question about xtinaity which I waived away on the premise of dogma. . .I have always given logical, objective and intellectual potent answers which always support my notion that xtianity is logical in all ramifications.

3. Faith in God is NOT irrational, contrary to your claim.

In the bible, all those who had faith in God were STRENGTHENED before their request was granted. what do u think it means to be strengthened?

4. According to your definition of objectivity. . .I believe that I am qualified in this context. The unbiased view is that anyone who does not meet the criteria of heaven does NOT make heaven and that includes Dalai Lama and Ghandi.

The above post as just proven that you certainly have no clue what it means to be objective.

Image123:
And you say I was insultive,how? Well I'm very sorry. But you're the one who has called me a pharisee,mischievous,condemner,sarcastic,demonizer.Such accusations hardly moves me.My mentors(like Jesus) were hardly moved. What you said was that billions of people are like you,that they don't get drunk(at least not in the past 15yrs). Its the end of post 193. I don't condemn you,it's not my job.

If Jesus was truly your mentor then you would be more interested in keeping his commandments to help the poor than your pastors commandents to tithe and sow seeds in his church which were NEVER part of Jesus teachings and were actually part of the dogma he fought against. Also you would not engage in twisting scripture to prove your delusions as it is quite obvious that Jesus who you claim to be your mentor used to consume alcoholic wine{luke 7:33-34} no matter you try to twist that scriptutre or wave it aside

banom:
Greetings the holy Daddy G.O of Saint Bottles Assembly, palm wine parish.
With all humility, i hereby accept my appointment from your holiness, and i promise to do well as well long as there is enough beer for me,

But if i may request, i would like to be posted to a different parish other than maitama parish, i am only saying it because i intend to specialize in palm wine ministry and to find a church here will be difficult because many people here prefer the English wine anointing than the palm wine anointing.

Obviously you be JJc for this business, don't you know that a parish in maitama would attract more tithes, offerings and seed sowing than one in a local area were palmwine is used I would have thought you would be more experienced than that.

@viaro
Are you new on this forum or you just assumed a new identity? you seem rather prolific for a newbie.

huxley:
1) Merely Cell Theory

2) Merely The theory of Gravity
3) Merely Atomic Theory?

I am sure what you mean is the "Law of Gravity" gravitational force is a well established and proven law unlike evolution which is merely a theory and remains unproven to date. i am sure you know the difference btw laws and theories in science.

rabzy:
I think you are the one being mischievous, am not a drunk and i have never being drunk, but i know the truth and it sets people free from pharisee-like rigidity, who put unnecessary burden on the common man and created their own set of rigid rules about fasting, sabbath, tithes, dedication of gifts to God as against taking care of ones parents etc.

The above highlighted phrase is simply spot on and i simply love it in infact i would hence forth include it in my vocabulary. Isn't it amazing that 2000 years on after Jesus came to redeem us from this rigidity our so called men of God[mordern day pharisees] are still holding on to it. They even hold on to defunct laws like tithes and seed sowing whilst they ignore the weightier matters of the law laws which Jesus established which is to show love to others. Are these people really following christ or they are just using his name to love-vendor their trade

rabzy:
I dont think you get drunk too, so its not as if we are justifying our debauchery.
Cheers man

Was just kidding i am strongly against excessive consumption of alcohol/ drunkeness how ever i find twisting of biblical facts even more nauseating.

Some of the most informative and intelligent posts that I have read on this forum have written by you pastor AIO, your posts are certainly refreshing and your contributions are still very much needed on this forum so please drop the idea of leaving us o.

@dakkylove
The bible makes it clear that there would be lots of false teachers/prophets and we were warned against them, the bible also taught us how to recognize them i am afraid that a lot of our pastors based on biblical standards are fake prophets and i am not judging any one for they have already condenmed themselves 2 Peter 2:1-3: 1 But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. 3 In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

Below are some biblical standards which all church leaders must be seen to be striving to meet up to even if they are not perfect. In your honest opinion how many of our pastors measure even strive to measure up to this biblical standard.
1 Timothy 3:2-3:
2 So an elder[church leader] must be a man whose life is above reproach. He must be faithful to his wife. He must exercise self-control, live wisely, and have a good reputation. He must enjoy having guests in his home, and he must be able to teach. 3 He must not be a heavy drinkeror be violent. He must be gentle, not quarrelsome, and not love money.
1 Peter 5:2-3:
2 Care for the flock that God has entrusted to you. Watch over it willingly, not grudgingly—not for what you will get out of it, but because you are eager to serve God. 3 Don’t lord it over the people assigned to your care, but lead them by your own good example.

bawomolo:
what are you guys running from?

it's funny how a religion like Christianity that should breed unity could lead to segregation.

The problem is that very few people practise true christianity, what is assume is christianity is just an abused version of it. If you come to the true knowledge of it you would realise it is absolutely divine.

ogajim:
No matter how many times you explain the tithe process to "zombiefied" Christians, they will still go with what those Oles/pimps in suits tell them to do. To each his own, if you believe that giving money to someone to help him buy one extra SUV or private jet is "seed sowing" and that "blessings will pour out of 'heavens'", go ahead with it but don't complain when the only one getting "blessed" is the guy you gave your money to.
How logical is it for you to demand 10% from your kids allowance that you provided in the first place?

It's called spiritual 419 mathematics you can not use ordinary human logic to understand, that is the way it works in the kingdom

[quote author=Aloy`Emeka link=topic=334117.msg4693049#msg4693049 date=1255016429]Many rich Nigerians who made their money legally are pentecostal christians. Is it a lie?[/quote]Which ones are you talking about? Is it Erastus Akingbola, or is Cecilia Ibru? Stop deluding your self even your o called pastors are not making their money legally they are all into fraud. They make their money through deception. Which one of them doesn't preach the fraudulent doctrine of tithes? Do you know how many families have been ruined through the false teachings of these con men? You can be rest assured that the hottest place in hell would be reserved for them.
Philippians 3:17-19:

  17 Dear brothers and sisters, pattern your lives after mine, and learn from those who follow our example. 18 For I have told you often before, and I say it again with tears in my eyes, that there are many whose conduct shows they are really enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 They are headed for destruction[hell]. Their god is their appetite, they brag about shameful things, and they think only about this life here on earth.

Image123:
Kunle stop wondering, not everyone is insolent and insubordinate. There are believers who 'obey them that have rule over' them. Whatever your feelings, God approves of it so mind your business.
You have failed to realize that the word 'wine' was and is used to refer to BOTH fermented wine and other drinks, too bad. It does not take a 1st class student to know that 'oil' in the Bible doesn't always have to be palm oil, 'bread' doesn't always have to be what we call bread today, 'meat' does not always have to be what we call meat today, and the same applies to wine. It's common sense,it doesn't require greek scholarship. To assume that wine is always your preconceived definition of ALCOHOL, shows who really cannot think outside the LITTLE box.

Forget all this crap you are writting and all your attempts to twist the word and force your conceited opinion into it, just show me one single scripture that says christians should consume wine or alcohol in the bible and i would sheath my sword. we have already showed you several which shows that the consumption of alcohloic wine was a normal practice amongst Jesus, his disciples and the early church. Reminds me of our debate on the false doctrine of tithes which after several months of ranting you were unable to justify based on sound scriptural references. You guys just have to learn that you cannot continue to twist scripture and force your opinions into it even if your poorly trained pastors tells you so. I know most of them lie on the holy spirit when they twist scripture to justify their lapses but that was in the past knowledge is so easy to acquire these days.

@Pastorjose
Your definition of science is slightly off, science deals with the quest for all knowledge and is not restricted to matter and energy, however scientific methods are limited to what is physically observable. And by the way science points to the existence of God as more and more scientist based on evidence around us are now agreeing that the earth and all that is in it must have been by an intelligent creator as it is way to complex to have ever happened to this perfection by just "Natural selection" Even the term natural selection suggests an an entity is doing the "selection" that entity is God whom the arrogant ignorant amongst us have refused to acknowledge. As per evolution you are 100% correct it as never been proven and would never be. What some obscure scientist are strecthing to mean evolutuon are just minor adaptations which occurs in all living beings under specific conditions. The living organism is programmed to adapt to it's environment this again is to the credit of the intelligent creator who probably designed things that way to boost the chances of survival of the living being. Another issue where science as completely confirmed the evidence of an intelligent designer is the complex and advanced make up off the DNA. experts in this field have likened to dna to a highly developed computer progamme which works in the back gruoud of the living tissues.

the viper:
@bidemi, wetin i come do again?
the game starts from the mummy and daddy stuff. i once had a problem with a winners pastors wife in one of their branches outside nigeria. my crime? that am too arrogant and doesnt call her mummy or her hubby daddy. then i asked her, if i call u mummy,what them will i call my own mom? i gave up on them there and then and went back to my base, the catholic church.

You got me rolling on my back there it just goes on to show the height of delusion in the pentescostal church and the disregard they have for sound biblical doctrines. They are actually the ones bringing christianity to ridicle and encouraging people to turn to atheism. Jesus clearly instructed against calling religious leaders father [daddy] [Matthew 23:6-10]yet these clowns take offence when you don't address them as such. I sometimes wonder who they are trully serving whether it is Jesus whose teachings they constantly violate or their pockets and their egos.

Matthew 23:6-10:
6 And they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the seats of honor in the synagogues. 7 They love to receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces, and to be called ‘Rabbi.’ 8 “Don’t let anyone call you ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters. 9 And don’t address anyone here on earth as ‘Father,’ for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father. 10 And don’t let anyone call you ‘Teacher,’ for you have only one teacher, the Messiah.

@Akanniade
Pentecostal preachers don't follow the examples of the apostles or Jesus. They are gods unto themselves and only use the bible to seek legitimatcy. If they were to follow biblical standards they would be out of business b4 you say jack robinson.

@skydancer
The topic is actually very deep and the more you study the more you realize you don't know any thing but the quest for knowledge is in fact fun. That is why i just laugh when you come across main stream religionist[ be it christian or muslim] who assume religion or their holy book answers every thing. What is revealed to us is just a very minute % of the reality yet we are constantly confusing issues and killing ourselves over things we have a very little clue about. My advice is we keep studying with an open mind and the true picture of things would begin to emerge.

Zikkyy:
I disagree with this. By storehouse i believe you meant “church bank account”. God is not "taking care of his storehouse", the tithe that was kept in the temple’s storehouse in OT was meant for distribution to the levites and their families and not for church expansion, retreats, conventions & funding luxurious expenditure of those that are already comfortable. You are aware of this fact, but if still confused go back and read your bible all over again. Pay attention to 2 Chronicles 31:4-19, Nehemiah 10:37-39, Nehemiah 12:44, Nehemiah 13:5-13. There are currently no levites in your church, the 10% of free-will donation you gave & kept in the “church bank account” can be used for these other church activities. Nobody is stoping you from giving 10% of your income to your church to swell up the content of the church bank account, but stop confusing/relating it to tithe in OT.

That is apart from the fact that storehouse in the bible was actually a physicall one [and not bank account] were agricultural produce were stored for the feeding of the poor, needy, strangers and levites. The only reason levites were even included in this equation was becuase they were not allowed to work or own property. But today the mordern day impostors do other businesses[selling of tapes, books e.t.c] and own the best properties thereby disqualifying them from tithes even it it was still valid.