₦airaland Forum

@JeSoul

U know I finally agree with u on the last post and I truly do apologise, I didn't pay attention to the fact that ur a female, lol.

I agree no need to confuse a challenge for an attack but when u say that the church is evil, it is an attack, and a verdict (judgment). I understand u tying to bring the truth, but keep in mind that u also may not hold the truth, just because someone differs with your opinion does not mean they are wrong, there are three sides to the truth, your side, my side, and the truth.
There are many preachers out there and I have heard the same passages over and over again but different meanings to them. Each one interprets it differently. I found confusion, but the Catholic church had no confusion, there was/is unity in Christ.

You tell me I should do my research and I remember saying that I wasn't always Catholic, trust me I have attended most of the churches out there right down to Cele, so I took my time to research, and not just about the Churches but also about the teachings from the Bible. It took me years before I decided to join the Catholic church and in my heart I know the teachings to be true and also from my life experiences too. There are truths that have been revealed to me that may not have been revealed to you. That's why I tell everyone to pray and ask God for his spirit of understanding, knowledge, and wisdom before they read and meditate on the words of the Bible.
To you and many people the Catholic church is evil, but to me and billions of people it is not. To me the teachings from the Bible makes sense, to you it doesn't and that's fine. You can accept the scriptures I presented to u or u may not, that's fine. All I know is on judgment day I will be held accountable for my actions and not yours and vice versa.

yeah about the whole quoting thing, how do u do that, am still learning how this site works, it's too much wahala trying to copy and paste the quotes especially since some may not show up on the page when I click reply.

God bless

As far as you are EDO you can only be ma brother or sister. . . . I feel I will be committin' incest even by replying your posts on Nairaland. Sorry eh?

I thought I was the only one who felt this way.

I haven't met any Nlanders. Unless I've met them already and don't know it's them.

It's saved as his name

@ poster

he doesn't have to anounce u to the entire world, if he's on the phone with her doesn't mean he has to say ur there, respect his privacy. What do u expect him to say? Should he say to her "before we start chatting, I would like for u to know that my girlfriend is here, ok let's chat"? It's ridiculous and childish.
U say that u've met his family, well I don't think that he's trying to hide u, unless ur insinuating that he may have taken his ex and friend to meet his family too or is still taking them there.

U mentioned that he didn't introduce u to the friend when u met her, well that's the problem. That should be ur focal point, not that he doesn't introduce u over the phone.

He doesn't even make an effort to call her?

My dear why are u crying again? I think this might be ur insecurity.

Talk to him about when he didn't introduce u to her when she was in ur face, not why he doesn't announce u over the phone.

Do u announce him to ur ex? Don't answer that, am sure u'll be quick to announce him. Women like to stick it to the ex and let him know that he let something good slip away or that she could do better without him, childish thinking if u ask me.

@ gentledove

what part don't u understand?

he trips me to point where I curse him out, but he's my heart anyway. Everyone keeps talking about the lovey dovey stuff (and freaky stuff *cough* almondjoy, lol), I decided to highlight a different part.

But anyway, after he pisses me off and I raid fire and brimstone on his head, I look at him and he's there just grinning, then I realise he's doing it intentionally. I fall for it all the time. Makes me want him even more.

But ok the lovey dovey stuff: his kisses are superb. I always bend one leg at the knee. I love how he's gentle with me, especially when my accident happened (that's what brought us close together, it's like a fairy tale, to me at least).

I love that he doesn't let me get away with things when am being silly, but he still does anything and everything for me. He will literally go to the end of the world for me.

I also like how he is with my family. He respects my mother and siblings. He's also taken on the role of big brother to them.

He is soooo kind, and patient, and humble, he tolerates the sillyness I dish out. He respects my mind and yes even my body, he doesn't dwell on old quarrels, he has a true forgiving heart, he isn't quck to be angry, and he's honest with me even when I don't want to know the truth.

I nicknamed him love after the Bible verse 1Coringhtians 13: 4-7

Gosh is this what they call love? I wonder.

JeSoul did u read my post?
Because u will see where I clearly state that no one will dispute you scripture because it's the same scripture we believe in or do u not understand simple english again , You've already shown that u do not.

lol, I referred to her as mister too

Sorry JeSoul, sorry girl

@SysUser
How u doing?
I'm going to address some of the questions u posted to the best of my ability, and the rest that I cannot, I will seek the answers for u.

1. Was Mary actually Crucified? NO (THIS IS NOT A TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH)

2. Is salvation by Faith Alone in Jesus Christ? I am a bit confused as to what you're asking here, pehaps the way it is worded.
If you're trying to figure out if salvation comes by faith in Jesus Christ, then yes.
If you're trying to figure out if salvation is by faith alone (in Jesus Christ), then No. James 3: 14 - 26, tell us that faith without works is dead.

3. Was Mary born a sinner? Ask God who created her, he had her in mind from the beginning.
The church teaches that she was cleansed from original sin by Jesus Christ and stayed that way.
I'll seek more answers for u

4. Did Mary die at all? When her earthly life was complete she was taken up body and spirit. The Church teaches that.
I will get more answers for u

5. How come Semeramis (the origin of Baal worship) has more in common with Catholicsm?
Who told u they do? A group on the internet? How reliable are they? Are they actually telling the truth? Do u know about semeramis? Keep in mind muslims claim a lot about christ and don't even know him. I looked it up and when reading about it I laughed, it turns out that even if they know about semeramis, they don't know about catholism. The knowledge they have about Catholicsm is false, for example they noted the "40 days mourning" of the sun gog or whatever that thing is and said that's equivalent to the mourning of catholics, when in fact the catholics don't mourn during lent, what are we mourning, Christ wsn't dead. We follow in the footsteps of Christ as he fasted for 40 days in the wilderness, preparing for his ministry. In ancient times, those who were to be baptised used the period of lent to prepare themselves for the journey ahead as Christians, today the whole Christian community joins them, and also renew themselves in the convenant with God.

6. How come the practices and action of catholicsm are vehemently spoken against by the Bible?
Which practices? The true practices, or the ones people made up in their minds? The true practices or conspiracy theories that u heard and put in your mind and hold as truth?

7. How come the Douay-Rheims Bible, a catholic bible says that Mary would crush the head of the serpent?
I looked up the Bible and it doesn't say that, stop misqouting. I do however question that Bible because it said that she will crush the head of the serpent and then it gave an explanation and her it is: "She shall crush", Ipsa, the woman; so divers of the fathers read this place, conformably to the Latin: others read it ipsum, viz., the seed. The sense is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent's head
Now am I going by that Bible? No, my Bible says the seed, but as that Bible explains it, it comes down to interpretation of the latin words during translation. For example when we say a word in our native language and try to translate it to english, it doesn't hold the EXACT meaning.

8. Can anyone be saved without honouring or worshipping Mary?
This isn't the teaching of the Catholic Church. So No Mary does not do the saving, it is NOT by her or throguh her that we receive salvation, there is no such thing as a prayer IN Mary's name, at least not in the Catholic Church.

9. Does Purgatory exist in the Bible? Yes 1 Peter 3: 18 - 20, but that is debatable based on how u interpret that. Can go into my interpretations later if you want. But I want to ask u, does souls go to heaven or hell immediately they die? If yes, why then would they need to be raised up on judgment day and they account for their works/faith? If no, where are they then? If just floating around in some kind of a "holding place," that is what is called purgatory, we just happen to have a name for it.

10. How come the Catholics beleive in evolution when the bible clearly states that it took literally 6 days, 24 hrs for creation?
First, if u hold that literal sense to be true then u must not have read revelation. Second, it may not have been literal, I do have to come back to u though because am not a science buff, but I do know someone that is and we already had this discussion, he shows why it is that "evolutionists" tend to be Christians because the idea of creation in the Bible falls more in line with it.

11. Is salvation dependent on Mary?
No the church does not teach that.

11. Is salvation dependent on the catholic traditions? The traditions are generated from the Bible for example the christmas and easter that we both celebrate, but trust and believe that Salvation comes from the belief in Jesus Christ, and the catholic traditions are based on the belief in Jesus Christ.

I hope this helps, gotta run, will be back with the other answers. Take care.

@JeSoul

Now I really believe ur doing this just to pass time, you're bored at work aren't u?

Why don't u address the speech she was talking about? She spoke of the last Pope and how u picked and chose what to say, but u are her addressing a DIFFERENT speech from a the recent Pope as a rebuttal. Please go and sit down somewhere.

hmmm all this lovey dovey

my own, he trips me to the point where i ask Sango to send lightning to strike him wherever he's standing
I tell Amadioha to make thunders sound in his eardrums.

yeah he trips me to that point. Useless man.

He's my heart

"Absolution in the Roman rite takes this form (with the essential words in bold):
God the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son, has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

Why didn't u put in bold the "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"? Like I said u pick and choose which one workds for u.

"1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he(God) is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Luke 5:21
The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, "Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?


1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Why don't u add the other scriptures that ask u to confess your sins, or the one in which Christ breathed on the apostles and told them to "receive the spirit." "Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are FORGIVEN them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are RETAINED."? Or didn't Christ give us the power and grace to continue his works on earth and didn't he forgive, isn't that part of his works. It does not say whose "message u preach" will be "message u preached" them, and whose "message u don't preach" will be" message u don't preach", so don't give me that translation, it makes NO SENSE.

But u won't because like all other christians, u pick and choose which is more suitable for u.

CATHOLICS WILL NOT TODAY, TOMORROW, OR EVER, REFUTE THE PASSAGES IN WHICH YOU PROVIDED BECAUSE IT IS A PART OF OUR MESSAGE. GOTTTTT ITTTT!!!!!!!!


"This, then, is how you should pray:
  " 'Our Father in heaven,
  hallowed be your name,
   10your kingdom come,
  your will be done
     on earth as it is in heaven.
   11Give us today our daily bread.
   12Forgive us our debts,
     as we also have forgiven our debtors.
   13And lead us not into temptation,
  but deliver us from the evil one"

How about u also highlight "AS WE HAVE FORGIVEN OUR DEBTORS". Stop picking and choosing.


"Jesus already gave us the required way to pray and ask for forgivness. There is no need for any other method as being prescribed and taught by the catholic church. Infact ask any catholic to give you just one example or instance in the bible where anyone confessed their sins to a disciple in order to gain forgiveness - the fact is there is none. Catholics claim Jesus gave the disciples the power to forgive sins YET there is no evidence anywhere in the bible where the disciples practiced or used this authority! how come? were they being disobedient to Jesus? or is it because Jesus never really gave them such a power in the first place?'

This one Catholic has provided it for u above, but ofcourse with the hatred in your heart u'll be too blind to see, just like the Pharisees (as an example ofcourse)

"THERE IS NO BIBLICAL BASIS for the heretic teaching of penance. Everytime we see Jesus forgive the sins of someone he says "Go and sin no more" He never once tells them to repeat "hail marys" or "our fathers" or any other physical act in order to "complete the forgiveness". Becos there is nuthin we can do to earn forgiveness, it is a gift from God."

You know what's funny about this "hail Mary" and "our father" thing is that in all my countless times of going to confession, I was never told to do any of these, I was told to pray and I was given passages from the bible to meditate on, and I remember an occassion where I was heavily burdened and the priest referred a book to me, he said it would help. So I WILL MAKE THE ASSUPMTION THAT You ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE PRACTICES OF THE CHURCH, AND ARE SPEAKING BASED ON WHAT You'VE HEARD. I was also told to make right, my wrong, now are u going to tell me that that practice is also wrong.

But here's something about penance, it is voluntary. No one has a camera to your face to say "aha, I caught u, your not doing penance" it is an atonement for sins, it's jsut u saying God I am sorry and to show how sorry I am, I will help the neighborhood kids for a month or give to the homeless everytime I see one.

But since we want to stick strictly to what the Bible says (which by the way is what I've been doing), let's visit other areas of the so called heresy.

Christmas- No where in the Bible is christmas celebrated, but u my dear celebrate it year after year after year, your church should be condemned for heresy shouldn't it?

Easter- No where in the Bible is easter celebrater, but u my dear celebrate it year after year after year, your church should be condemned for heresy shouldn't it?

Your Birthday- IT IS NOT CELEBRATED IN THE BIBLE, shouldn't u be considered heretic.

AND NO DON'T COME ACCUSING ME OF STRAYING FROM THE TOPIC, I AM GIVING You EXAMPLES OF THE PRACTICES THAT ARE NOT IN THE BIBLE, BECAUSE IF You WILL ACCUSE ME OF HERESY You MUST ACCUSE YOURSELF OF IT TOO.

"Roman catholic church is the greatest deception today and she will sadly take many down with her to hell"
Do u know what judgment is or do u want to just completely ignore the fact that u have just judged 1 billion people?
I would like to go with the later, but unfortunately u have just sinned against man and God, by playing God. But hey am just screaming judgment right?
Some christian u are.

@D-reloaded

"Lmao the Sabbath was created by the Catholic Church?"

No it wasn't

Please show me just 1, only 1 instance in the bible where priests or the disciples forgave the sins of anybody. Give me just one example where they practiced this so-called authority to forgive sins? show me another where penance was taught and practiced?

By apostle Paul

2Corinthians 5: 20 "So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God."

2 Corinthians 2:10 "Whomever, you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, If I have forgiven anything, has been for you in the presence of Christ." Apostle Paul to the Corinthians. These are not Jesus' words. Paul is the one doing the forgiving here.

Acts 13:38 "You must know, my brothers, that through him forgiveness of sins is being proclaimed to you, " Paul acknowledging the power of forgiveness ordained to him by Christ.

JeSoul I have already given the scritures to you, you however, remain blind to them. I won't refute your scriptures, because I too believe in them. They do NOT and I repeat DO NOT refute my scriptures but add to them and proves them even more. You pick and choose which ones to believe, that is fine with me.

But do keep in mind, that as Christ was forgiving sins the pharisees called it blasphemous for God alone can forgive, and well we all know how that ended don't we?

Keep basking in ur waters that causes u blindness, I will keep praising the Lord. I laid out the catechism which u call evil and not an evil word came out of it, let others decide for themselves.

I have done my research and that is how I came up with the scriptures that I showed you, you still claim that I don't refute ur scriptures, my dear I won't because those scriptures are also in my Bible and I hold them to be true. U keep expecting me to refute a belief that we both share. When will u stop the madness and see that it's the same thing.
Whatever theory u have in your head is NOT of the Catholic church. You want me to tell u that and I do but u still want to bicker like a mad woman.

@Viee,
my dear I stand firm in my faith and with these truths that I have revealed I stand even firmer in my faith. YES I have noticed it's the new trend to stardom.
Anyway, my easter was blessed and I am enjoying every moment of the season. I truly believe in the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will surely come again.

How was yours? Hope it was equally as blessed or even more so.

@Olabowale

The book of revelation is not completed on a person. It tells of the apocalypse, it gives signs to the end of the world, the second coming of Christ.

I don't understand why you're trying to disprove the Bible, the great one's book acknowledges our faith.

@4Him

Lol. Now ur just being silly. Go read revelations again ok.

By the way are u even a christian?

@D-reloaded

People are not asking questions anymore, people are now telling us what we are and that is judgement.
I was the one that volunteered to answer questions but homeboy already has it made up in his mind that the church is evil.
Like I posted, we're not being asked about what we actually do practice, we're being asked about what we don't practice. I'm trying to show homeboy that man can't forgive without God's spirit/grace, just like man can't do anything without God, but homeboy wants me to show him where it says that priests alone can forgive, and that in itself is not what the church teaches.

Directly from the Catechism-

THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE AND RECONCILIATION

What is this sacrament called?

It is called the sacrament of conversion because it makes sacramentally present Jesus' call to conversion, the first step in returning to the Father from whom one has strayed by sin.

It is called the sacrament of penance, since it consecrates the Christian sinner's personal and ecclesial steps of conversion, penance, and satisfaction

It is called the sacrament of confession, since the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. In a profound sense it is also a "confession" - acknowledgment and praise- of the holiness of God and of his mercy toward sinful man.

It is called the sacrament of forgiveness, since by the priest's sacramental absolution GOD GRANTS the penitent "pardon and peace"

It is called the sacrament of reconciliation, because it imparts to the sinner the love of God who reconciles: "Be reconciled to God, 2 corinthians 5:20." He who lives by God's merciful love is ready to respond to the Lord's call: "Go; first be reconciled to your brother."

Why a sacrament of Reconciliation after baptism?

"You were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the spirit of our God, 1corinthians 6:11." One must appreciate the magnitude of the gift God has given us in the sacraments of Christian Initiation in order to grasp the degree to which sin is excluded for him who has "put on Christ. Galatians 3:27." But the apostle John also says: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us, 1 John 1:8." And the Lord himself taught us to pray: "Forgive us our trespasses, Luke 11:4," linking our forgiveness of one another's offenses to the forgiveness of our sins that God will grant us.

Only God forgives sin

Only God forgives sins. Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, "The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven, Mark 2:5, 10" Further by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name, John 20:21-23

Christ hs willed that in her prayer and life and action his whole church should be the sign and instrument of the forgiveness and reconciliation that he acquired for us at the price of his blood. But he entrusted the exercise of the power of absolution to the apostolic ministry which he charged with the "ministry of reconciliation, 2 corinthians 5:18." The apostle is sent out "on behalf of Christ" with "God making his appeal" through him and pleading: "Be reconciled to God."

The confession of Sins

The confession (or disclosure) of sins, even from a simply human point of view, frees us and facilitates our reconciliation with others. Through such an admission man looks squarely at the sins he is guilty of, takes responsibility for them, and thereby opens himself again to God and to the communion of the Church in order to make a new future possible.

Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance: "All mortal sins of which penitents after a diligent self-examination are conscious must be recounted by them in confession, even if they are most secret and have been committed against the last two precepts of the Decalogue; for these sins sometimes wound the soul more grievoulsy and are more dangerous that those which are committed openly, Exodus 20:17, Mathew 5:28."

Without being strictly necessary, confession of everyday faults (venial sins) is nevertheless strongly recommended by the Church. Indeed the regular confession of our venial sins helps is form our conscience, fight against evil tendencies, let ourselves be healed by Christ and progress in the life of the Spirit. By receiving more frequently through this sacrament the gift of the Father's mercy, we are spurned to be merciful as he is merciful.


I hope this helps those who care. But I am sure the are those who will read something else into it and twist it around. Anyway this is it, u decide for urself. If u still hate the church because of this, then ok, if u don't then ok. There's nothing I can do anymore. I have defended her to the best of my ability. God please do the rest.

@JeSoul

I have given u my answers, I need not say more. I won't dance around with u like a chicken without it's head. What u fail to realise is that ur scripture DOES NOT refute my scripture, but proves it. But like I said u interpret the Bible one way and I do another. The point ur trying to prove is that the Catholic church believes that the priest HIMSELF does the forgiving, but that is a blatant LIE. I have heard so many THEORIES made up by man about the Catholic church, most of them happen to be false. I am not going to try to prove to u that what is false is in the Bible, I will show u what I believe (THAT MAN IS ABLE TO FORGIVE BY THE GRACE OF GOD, NOT WITHOUT GOD, JUST LIKE MAN LIVES BY THE GRACE OF GOD AND NOT WITHOUT GOD), but I will not try to justify a lie to u, so don't ask me to do that. I won't show u where it says in the Bible that Priests alone can forgive because that is not what the Bible says, I will however show u that it is through the Spirit of God that MAN is able to forgive, so my brother if u want to ask your ordained pastor to listen to ur confession (because we are asked to confess to each other) and PRAY for u that the LORD grants u forgiveness, then so be it.

And about the whole contraditory thing and renouncing christianity, u do see the SARCASM there don't u?

And u have judged me and the rest of the Catholic community, u labeled us evil without knowing us. I doubt u have read the catechism that u call evil, because if u have, u won't. You don't have to agree with the faith but u won't call it evil. Yes there are faltering souls in the Catholic church just like there are those in ur church, but I won't call ur church evil because of that. You have passed judgement on us and we humbly accept. Christianity is not an easy lifestyle, there will be persecution (for the catholics and non catholics), it just breaks my heart that it's my fellow christian that is persecuting me. I expect this from the atheists and muslims but not from a christian. You can have differing views but don't judge, let God be the judge of the so called evil of the Catholic church. Make sure that ur own salvation is guaranteed!!!

@Uche

leave them alone let them keep trying to figure out our salvation instead of theirs. All I know is on judgement day I will be held accountable for my life and not theirs, so if they want to base their life goal on deciphering mine then that is what they will tell God. And then God will be the judge.

@tpaine and slimtoney

that is the reason why I cry for christianity. As Tpaine said we bash each other with the same stuff. I agree, because what one passage says another says again in different words. If only my christian brothers and sisters will see that it's all the same.

To answer ur question, Christ holds the truth, faith in him is what is needed. He will direct our paths.

Have a good day sir.

@JeSoul

lol@ u misquoting me, by the way the muslim thing is a joke, and lol @ u judging them too. It's a shame. But hey much love to u because u are God's own. I cannot sin against u and God by judging u. lol@ the fact that exactly what I said is what u said in different words. LOL@ U for thinking that the Catholic church doesn't teach that God forgives and that we ignore the other verses, (by the way we don't stand by that verse alone, there are others)

I see u've made it up in ur mind that u don't even want to reason my points, that's ok and fine with me. I live life to please God and by his grace I will continue to do so.

Thank u for ur judgement, I accept humbly.

@JeSoul

The 50 million passages don't contradict the one passage (there's more than one), it proves it. U however, interpret it differently. Please don't call my faith evil, I don't insult urs so don't insult mine. Be mature please. 1 billion catholic christians agree with it compared to the one billion christians that are 33,000 divided. Don't insult God's church. Catholics don't insult the other 33,000 God's churches out there, instead we do the Christ like thing and accept them. We do the Christ like thing and don't judge them, however u all do the unChrist like thing and judge us. But still we accept and love u as God's own.

If we are evil to u, that's fine, we accept ur judgement with humility. But please there are other evils in the world worth fighting, like poverty and illness, and injustice.

God bless U

@ Gamine

thank God u don't have to say the Our Father?
I understand u not wanting to say the hail mary, but the our father too?

lol thank God u don't have to say his prayers huh, that's the way to do it.
by the way u should also drop psalm 23 and any other psalms u recite.


and please keep in mind that in the Ctholic church u are not forced to do anything, it is not complusory, because christianity is not compulsory. U are told to, but my dear God gave us all free will and we exercise it each day with the decisions we make.

@Uche

I am at a loss for words too. When they cheat on their partners, they ask for forgiveness, meanwhile men were not given the power to forgive, so why ask na? I don't understand o. When they steal, they ask forgiveness too from human beings o, it is an outrage. It is a complete outrage.

ok people I have come to the conclusion that the Bible is contradictory, so why don't we all just renounce christianity and call it a day. Won't that be ideal?
One verse says that only God can forgive, the other one says u should forgive so that God can forgive, so if only God can forgive why am I being asked to forgive?
Alright that's it we should all renounce christianity, too many contradictions, right?

I think the Bible shouldn't have been translated because it's caused too many confusion. The muslims had the right idea when they said that the Qu'ran shouldn't be translated and all should learn the language. I promise it wouldn't have caused this many confusion.

@JeSoul

lol, mister never did the Catholic church say that God doesn't forgive. That is just one of the insinuations of people (most of whom have never stepped foot into a catholic church)

Ok let me straighten this out. You said that what John 20: 23 meant was that Christ was telling the disciples to preach the message and who so receives it should be forgiven. Well I will simply insert ur meaning into the passage

"whose sins you "receive the message", will be "receive the message" them, whose sins you "do not receive the message" will be "not receive the message" them"

or better yet, "who you wish to preach the message to will have their sins forgiven, but who you do not wish to preach the message to will not have their sins forgiven"
my question is why would Christ ask them to "retain" the message?
Am sorry but it doesn't make sense to me how that is talking about the message, but like I said ur interpretation is different, I just don't see how u got that, so if u will pls clarify for me, thanks.


I keep asking you to ask questions that are actually not derived from insinuations. You asked about confession to the priest I show it is written in the Bible, however, u tell me that it's not what it meant. Fine, but pls don't say that the Catholic church says that only priests can forgive and God can't. No one can forgive without the grace of God, no one can do anything without the grace of God, full stop. Also sir there is no difference between the sin committed against God and man, at least not to me. When u sin against man, u sin against God. People want to separate man from God and there is no separation. When u murder a man, u sin against him and God. When u commit fornication u sin against whomever u commit it with as well as God. When u lie, u sin against who u lied to and God. When u commit a sin, it involves man, there's no way it doesn't. So please tell me which of the sins will be against God if they include man, in one way or the other, and u want to separate them. That's the problem with us christians we always take the word to benefit us. When we clothe a man we also clothe God, but when we sin against man we don't sin against God. There is no separation. We are his creation, when we bleed, he bleeds. When we're in sorrow, he's in sorrow. When we're clothed, he's clothed. When we're fed, he's fed. When we forgive, he forgives. When we don't, he doesn't.

Please don't put words into the mouths of Catholics. Don't make me start quoting word for word the catechism because my hands will be sore and so will ur eyes from reading. It's a lot of reading to do o. Don't push me to it.

@JeSoul

"ah yes our John 20:22 verse that is used to support the notion priests can forgive sins:

First and above all if you were to say man/priests can forgive sins that would directly contradict tons of other scriptures that teach God alone forgives sins.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Mark 11:25
And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."

Ps 103:2 Praise the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits, who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases

Micah 7:18
Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy.

Matthew 6:14
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Secondly,
The verse does not say "roman catholic priests are hereby endowed with the authority to forgive sins".
How did the catholic church reach that conclusion and what gives them the power to say that its priests are the chosen ones that can forgive sins?

3. The apostles were not priests, they did not do any sacrificing or anything so no one can come here and say catholics are descended from the apostles.
Furthermore we have the book of acts were the first church grew and organized, we see no hint or evidence whatsoever of the saints confessing their sins to the apostles or church leaders.
If Jesus really gave them the power to forgive sins, how come they never exercised it? how come they never acknowledged it in any of their letters? gospels? in practice? meaning they were disobedient. Right?

4. Read in context the words of Jesus. He was giving over to His disciples the ministry of reconciliation, the message of God. They were to go out and preach. And if anyone accepted their message they were forgiven, if anyone didn't they weren't.
It's not saying the disciples were placed in charge in forgiving people of their sins, read the verse in context and try to understand what Jesus was really saying. He breathed on them in verse 22, significant of Him giving them His spirit and then he gave them their ministry - to preach the gospel.


There, this should shatter any misuse or misinterpretation of John 20:23"


Ok sir, on ur number 4 above u said it urself, that he gave them the power to forgive. He was giving over to his disciples the ministry of reconciliation, the message of God what about the part of whose sins u retain is retained them? Wouldn't that mean that the disciples could choose who could receive the message? Why would Christ say who u choose to not receive the message won't receive the message? Isn't the message supposed to be taken far and wide? Ur insinuating that the message is discriminatory.

at ur number 3, ur just grasping for air there mister, lol, but u are right that it doesn't say that Roman Catholics are endowed with the authority to forgive sins. But I pray thee, which of the disciples are alive today. If it is particularly only to the disciples wouldn't that mean that ur pastors are not meant to carry on the gospel, because it wasn't told to them. I shouldn't carry on the gospel either because it wasn't told to me directly and neither should u. So how about we sit and wait for the disciples. By the way I thought we are disciples of Christ.

I also notice that u pick and choose. U seem to forget the part about if u forgive men when they sin against u. Wouldn't that mean that we have the power to forgive? Are u telling me now that I shouldn't forgive? Because it clearly tells me that I should.

Like I told u before, it is by his grace. Without him we wouldn't be able to do anything. Unless u want to tell me that everything else we do is by our grace and not his, because it's all the same.

@JeSeoul

I think you're missing the part where I say that it's by his grace. Without his grace we cannot forgive, we cannot breathe, we cannot live. From what u said, u are insinuating that we cannot live or breathe, because I said it is by his grace. Please don't pick and choose my words and misquote me to better ur point. I wrote out the verses before that so that u may see what comes before that. I did not pick a verse and use it to my own good. No need to be redundant so please read the verses I posted and tell me what u got from that. I will visit the link u provided. It was from the breath of Christ that the disciples got the spirit to forgive. Without it (the grace of God) we cannot, hence it is through God. He said what u bind on earth will be bound in heaven. He said whose sins u forgive, will be forgiven them, and whose sins u retain will be retained. I don't know any other clearer way to put that and that is exactly how it's written in the Bible, no additions to it at all.

As per the teachings of the church. It is biblical. I did my research and if I am in doubt, I visit the catechism and get my answers. It tells us why we believe what we believe and backs it up with a verse. So far the verses I have visited have made perfect sense to me, but hey the way I interpret the Bible is different from the way u interpret it. That's why Muhammed felt he got the better interpretation and we christians don't agree with it. That's his view and we have our view.

The church's teachings stands firmly on the Bible. Now I would understand if ur speaking about the Mary issue, because that is debatable, but when it comes to the teachings on Christ, my dear we stand firmly on the Bible. I wasn't always a Catholic. I was born into it, but left when I was young, I attended many different churches in search of the truth, but only found them to be confused. I didn't even receive answers to questions I asked, and no one could give me a clear understanding of the Bible. So I embarked on my own journey and it lead me back to the Catholic Church through the holy spirit. I do want to thank u all for challenge because it forces me to do more research and funny thing is the more research I do, the more my faith increases in the Catholic Church.

I don't know if u have a copy of the catechism, but I do, so please any questions u have let me know and I will look it up, but don't attack my faith. If u sincerely want to know, ask me sincerely. I will tell u the truth, if I feel the Catholic church doesn't base it on the bible then I will tell u and u decide for urself. Also keep in mind that u won't convert me, so don't let that be ur goal.

@sysuser

seriously as Imhotep put it u do have to ask the right questions and the catholic church is not hiding from anyone. if u want answers u can truly research it. don't ask questions just to ridicule the church because of ur hatred towards it. i was shocked at the questions u pose. i myself don't know how to answer them because they are ridiculous and would like to know ur sources for them. why is it u think that the catholic church holds these practices other than the obvious answer of u heard from others or u saw from the outside looking in. have u stepped foot into a catholic church and can u hold these questions u ask to be valid (that is the church actually practices them) or are u just trying to speak out of ur arse?


@Others reading this

If u truly want to know about the catholic church i suggest u look it up. if u can log onto this webpage certainly u can google or u can walk into a church and ask a priest (i assure u they don't bite)
or if u truly and sincerely want to know then ask a question that is worth answering, and i do mean question and not an attack. also be open minded to the answers u receive. don't have it in mind to rebuttal the answers given. most of the people who pose questions don't mean to receive answers. they just want to find something to say against the catholic church.


I also want to address the question about confessing to priests and who gave them the power to forgive. there was a thread about it and i couldn't find it. but people asked for the bible verse in which it says that we should confess and i gave it, but they also wanted one that gave men the power to forgive and here it is:

John 20: 19-23
19. On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them "peace be with u"
20. When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
21. Jesus said to them again "peace be with u. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
22. And when he had said this, he breathed unto them and said to them, "Receive the holy spirit"
23. "Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained"

God is the one who forgives our sins, without his grace, we are unable to forgive. It is through God that I forgive my biological father for abandoning me and my mother, it is through God that I forgive my boyfriend for cheating on me, it is through God that I forgive my friend for stealing from me. I forgive so that my sins too can be forgiven.

@SysUser
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at ur insanity and I truly hope to God ur just playing a prank for fun on the internet.

This so called version that u speak of, I have not heard of it. I am a proud catholic and I have the New American Bible (catholic bible) right here with me and no where does it state that the woman shall crush the head of the serpent. It says the man. I will do more research about the D-Rheism version u speak about. I can tell u that it is not of the catholic church. There are many printing presses today and many insane people roaming the world. Anyone can actually have a bible printed up as long as they have the money for it.

As per ur claim that the christians don't base their faith in Jesus Christ, u are wrong.
u wrote that we base our beliefs on faith, grace, works, and something else. I pray thee, tell me what it is we base our faith and receive our grace if it's not in and from Jesus Christ. U want us to prove our claims, u also must reference urs.

@poster

don't mind them jare, I read all of them and to my hubby too
I loved them and so did he

Good job

@ poster

i had a roommate who had all white hairs, she had black hair before and then suddenly it all fell off and grew white. she's fine but the doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with her, the best they could come up with is that she had a vitamin deficiency which isn't bad. it turns out she couldn't just eat anything and she became allergic to certain foods and had to pick up nutrients from particular foods, it made her life hell really cause she had to take extra care of herself. they said it was a deficiency that derives from white people, so check and see if she's mixed.

or it could just be that she dyed it

@oyb

when did Jesus become an arab?

Damn this is messed up, I however doubt it has anything to do with religion., and a lot to do with hatred of a people (racism)

People let's not forget that our very own christianity was used to enslave us at a time. does that mean that christianity condones slavery? no, it means that the white man was using a superior means to dehumanise us.

@donnie

where in the bible does it say that a wedding is when ppl are joined in a church?
who's to say that the marriage isn't blessed because it took place outside a church?
what if i don't have this is so called "wedding" and instead do my traditional marriage and then invite my pastor? would that mean that my marriage isn't blessed?