₦airaland Forum

illicit:
a sec sch govt student knows that ogboni is as old as Oyo empire even older because you have it in Ile Ife. How old is Benin kingdom

of what use is an ogboni that can not remove a king. They have no ogboni in Benin.

AjaanaOka:
Was Ogboni traditionally an arm of goverment in Benin as it seems to have been in many southern Yoruba kingdoms?

I am not asking about the modern Reformed Ogboni which drew membership from ethnic groups besides the Yoruba. I am asking if Ogboni existed in pre-colonial Benin.

Documentary evidence will also be nice.

there was no ogboni in Benin. I

gregyboy:
Yes untill you cite a source before 1914


Or probably johson works will be of good use



Lol......


It will surely end in tears

some Edos want to rewrite history by saying Benin was an edo empire but we won't let them. Benin was a sister empire to oyo, Ijesa, Ijebu and etc. They saw themselves as one speaking the same language.

They do not have ogboni in Benin.

gregyboy:
Owa obokun of ijesha is of benin heritage

to you, even the sultan of sokoto is of Benin heritage lol. I have told you Benin empire was a Yoruba empire where Yoruba was the only lingua franca. Edo was one of the vernacular spoken in the empire.

lx3as:
That Ọwá Obòkun daughter gave birth to a Deji never made Akure to be Ìjèṣas.

All 'Omo Olofin' are Omo Owa, Omo Ẹkun whether in Ìjèsà, Ekiti or Igbomina. The one in Ìjèsà is Ọwá Obòkun.

ok, I just hope Akure and ijesa can unite to become one.

illicit:
Akure has never been a part of Ijesha.
The Owafadeji was a maternal grandson to Owa Atakunmosa, and Owafadeji wasn't the first king in Akure but he was the first Deji. There were Alakures or Ajapadas before him. He was a prince when the Owa his grandfather gifted him a diadem on his return journey from Benin.

So inasmuch as he the first Deji was a grandson of Ijesha royalty doesn't translate to his kingdom being a part of Ijesha land ok?

from the pedigree Omo owa omo Ekun you can see that he was praised according to his maternal and paternal origin. Owa being aforesaid. Ekun is the founder of Akure. Ekun Asodeboyede, an Hunter from Ife. He is the progenitor of Akure royalty. But he and his lineage never used the title of Deji until Owafadeji became the king.
the original title for obas in Akure is Alakure/Ajapada.

Akure itself is a corruption of the phrase Akun re. The bead string snapped.

Akure historically is populated by migrants from hinterland Ekiti and Benin.

it is far fetched to term Akure as part of Ijesha.
Akure is more or less Ekiti because of cultural assimilation and population.

I am from hinterland Ekiti. My great grandfather migrated from Ado Ewi. Omo Owa omo Ekun is the first line in my family pedigree but how we related to Ijesha or Akure has long become history that I doubt can be traced now....

I am omo Owa omo Ekun

since the Deji can claim Ijesa through the maternal link, I hope Akure can unite with Ijesa in a restructure.

The Ijesa are a Yoruba group in West Africa. They occupy the Ijesa state. A state founded by owa Ajibogun over one thousand years ago. Ijesa has had many capitals, up to six but Ilesa became the capital in the 16th century. There are over 200 towns and villages who are Ijesa. It was Ijesa in the early 19th century who decimated the ilorin Fulani jihadists during the pole war. Pole means down in the Ijesa dialect. The Ijesa saved the rest of southern Nigeria from the fulani jihad because the pole war was the first serious check on the Jihadist's onslaught before the Ibadan put a final stop to the Fulani ambitions in osogbo in the 1840s. The kingship succession in Ijesa is like that of Britain as it is only princes who has been lojas or dukes of smaller Ijesa towns who are qualified to become the king. The full meaning of Deji of Akure is owafadeji of Akure which means owa granted him a crown. The first Deji of Akure was a grandson of the owa obokun Atakunmosa who reigned in the 16th century. The Deji is still greeted omo owa omo ekun like other Ijesas. The Atawoja of osogbo is also an omo owa. The greater Ijesa comprises of osogbo and Akure and we hope there will be a reunification in the near future. Also, the Lagos monarch is Ijesa by descent through the Alagbaa for which a palace the Iga Alagbaa was built in Lagos. The descendants of the Alagbaa are the kings of Lagos. The ruling family of Lagos is therefore Ijesa by descent. Ogedengbe Agbogungboro of Ijesa was the leader of the rebels who rose up against Ibadan in the late 19th century. It was Ijesa merchants in Lagos that imported the guns which gave the civil war kiriji its name.

samuk:
We don't know that for sure, but even if Ibadan had won, it's no guarantee that another Yoruba tribe wouldn't have risen up in the future to challenge Ibadan and the war and human sacrifices will just continue.

We have to thank the British for coming to put a permanent stop to it. The Yoruba can now enjoy their new conglomerate and unification in peace.

the Yoruba are now united and forever will be, thanks to the British. Next phase is for us to get our own nation outside Nigeria

samuk:
If the British haven't come to save the day, the various Yoruba tribes would have still been using themselves for human sacrifices with Ife preferring the Ijesa, whilst the Benin will be using the Ijebus for human sacrifices according to Johnson's book.

if the British did not come, Ibadan may have won the lengthy civil war and restored order like it was before. The Japanese civil war was as long as the Yoruba one and they settled it and proclaimed someone emperor.

samuk:
These criminals and enemies would have been people from other Yoruba tribes.

You are right. The Yoruba sphere is a world of its own consisting of a number of sovereign states and city states. Oyo was an empire and the largest of them receiving tributes from as far away as Ghana.

samuk:
In ancient times various Yoruba tribes saw themselves as strangers and used each others for human sacrifices until the British abolished the practice in 1893.

i believe they used criminals and enemies mostly.

samuk:
Are the people you referred to as strangers, same Yoruba people or other tribes.

i would say the ancient Ijesa would prefer oyo because they were our sworn enemies but things were not that bad that random strangers were being use. Ijesa markets used to be very full of strangers and they were not molested.

samuk:
So Ife people are allowed to use other Yorubas such as Ijesa for human sacrifices but Ijesa are not allowed to fight Ife.

ijesa used strangers for sacrifice too. I am not here to apportion blames and the ijesas have no history of anyone used by Ife for sacrifice.

gregyboy:
The truth is ife was a political party for all yorubas after the creation of nigeria the former was oyo but after the creation of nigeria and the fell of oyo no yoruba could trust oyo again and the new rising centre was ife the centre of Oduduwa, yorubas accepted ife and oduduwa because ooni allowed everyone to write thier ancestory directly from Oduduwa which favoured most yoruba monarch
Oba eweka out of minority complex joined in and declared his stool yoruba too but Yoruba myth bit too far into the benins history and the refuted the ife-benin claims


Again be sincere with me,

Is the owa stool of benin monarchy

Be sincere with your response am not a propagandists

ibadan was the successor of oyo and prior to the civil war, Ijesa,ekiti,akure,benin were paying tribute to Ibadan. Ibadan managed to subdue everywhere. The owa obokun is a son of oduduwas from Ife.

samuk:
I don't know if you were able to open the link to Johnson's book, it says Ijebu were also used.

https://books.google.com/books/about/The_History_of_the_Yorubas.html?id=7XSiGw4_qlAC

Are you saying Ijesa were strangers and enemy to the Ife people, that was why they used them for human sacrifices.

no Yoruba state is allowed to be at war with ife, so they were not enemies but they can be strangers using each other for sacrifices.

samuk:
If Ijesa and Ijebu were originally Oduduwa children, why will Ife used them for human sacrifices.

Why will Ife people tell Johnson about using Ijebu and Ijesa people for human sacrifices if the story wasn't true.

you use strangers or enemies for human sacrifice so I am not saying the story is not true. Ife can't be using Ijebu because Ijebu is too far.

[quote author=gregyboy post=89333095][/quote]ijesha is in osun state.

samuk:
Samuel Johnson was alive during these periods in 1893 when the British abolished human sacrifices. It's not like the history was past down from earlier times, it was still being practiced in Samuel Johnson's time before the British stopped the practice.

Samuel Johnson was quoting the Ifes, he wasn't there but I am telling you the real meaning of Ijesa and that Samuel Johnson liked that account being oyo. The Ijesas had a greater and better organised state than ife.

samuk:
https://books.google.com/books/about/The_History_of_the_Yorubas.html?id=7XSiGw4_qlAC

This is what the Yoruba historian Samuel Johnson recorded about the Ijesa relationship with Ife.

Ife preferred to use Ijesa people for human sacrifices until the British abolished it in 1893.

The history of the Yoruba people page 21, 1921.

" But one fact holds good down even to our days, viz., that up to the recent total abolition of human sacrifice by the British Government (1893) the Ifes, who, far more than any other, were addicted to the practice, always preferred for the purpose to have an Ijesa victim to any other; such sacrifices were considered more acceptable, the victims being the "food of the gods.""

the real meaning of ijesa is Ijo esa congregation of the elite. The Ijesa and oyo were sworn enemies in the past and rev Johnson was an oyo which made him hold fast to that account. The ijesa state was more populous and greater than the ife state.

davidnazee:
I think Ogedengbe was an Ijesa man?

ogedengbe agbogungboro was an Ijesa man.

gregyboy:
You dont ven know your map were is yoyr state


I dont think ijesha hasboundary with edo not to say benin

And i see why you want to so add us under the yoruba canopy so that the history as a benin monarchy ruling ijesha would be yorubanise

You are not qualified for the errand you are sending yourself if you don't even know the immediate neighbor of your Benin empire.

gregyboy:
Lol were is ijesha

Ijesa is an independent state bordering Benin.

davidnazee:
I have read about Ijesa and read somewhere Ife ruled over Ijesa. Is it true and Please can you describe about when Ife conquered and was ruling Ijesa, and ur annual tributes to Ife.

Maybe in the past, during the time of oduduwa when they made their bronzes and when segi beads were popular. Ife is a spiritual capital where human civilization started according to Yoruba thought. Ife is also an independent state now while Ijesa is also an independent state neighbour to ife. According to Ijesa accounts, the first ooni was birthed by a bond woman property of oduduwa but impregnated by owa ajibogun the first owa of ijesaland and son of oduduwa. There was a civil war in Ife and ajibogun said the child in the bondwomans womb should be made king. That was the first ooni. Ijesa people believe owa ajibogun impregnated his father's bond woman who gave birth to the first ooni.

gregyboy:
There was nothing like yoruba or oyo or oduduwa
Untill the creation of nigeria


I wanna ask were are your ancestors from

you are wrong. Oduduwa is in our oral history. I am a proud Ijesa.

davidnazee:
Please which part of Yoruba Kingdoms are u from? Are u from Ife?

I am a proud Ijesa, we share boundary with Benin.

Nice

davidnazee:
If Benin empire reawakens today, I will advise u to run for ur life because you will once again be conquered.

The Benin empire was a Yoruba state. That is what I want you to grasp.

If you reawake the Benin empire today, what language do you think you will be speaking to hold the empire together if not Yoruba?.

If East and west Germany can reunite after decades of partition then West Africa should restructure to reflect pre colonial realities. Togo and Benin republic should join with Nigerian Yoruba land to form one nation while Hausa should join with south west Niger.

samuk:
Ewuare may have a meaning in Yoruba but that doesn't mean it means the same thing in Benin. Ogun is a name of god shared by both Benin and Yoruba.

Could you elaborate on the circumstances that resulted in Benin adopting the Owo dialect? Are Owo people the same as Benin people?

centuries ago, an ife man was made king by the oracle in Benin, the story is in the ifa corpus under odi meji, if you know any babalawo you may ask them, the story is there. That man brought thousands of Yoruba with him and made Yoruba the lingual franca of the new empire he built, he called his capital Ife Ibinu which was later corrupted to Benin. Yoruba was the lingual franca of the empire. The oba was only addressed in the Yoruba language. The people of ugbodu delta migrated from Benin and they still speak a Yoruba dialect like that of owo.

TAO12:
Being a Yoruba is a blood thing. So, no matter how many Edo tribes from the suburb troop into the capital, the royal dynasty still retains its Ife patrilineal blood.

if they want to build Igodomigodo from the ground up using the oba, we should let them be but Benin empire was Yoruba thorough and thorough.