₦airaland Forum

gregyboy:
Yoruba is one of benin achievements in africa....

Oyo, Benin, Ijesa, Ijebu and etc are all Yoruba achievements.

gregyboy:
Yoruba is one of benin achievements in africa....

your language does not pass Benin city while Yoruba was spoken by several states in West Africa including the Benin empire. You need to be honest and accept that Yoruba was the lingua franca of the Benin empire but whether you agree or not, you can not change history.

Benin, I reiterate, was a Yoruba empire where the Yoruba dialect olukumi was used to conduct empire business. Edo was spoken in the suburbs. The palace and the entire over 50 thousand living there in spoke Yoruba.

gregyboy:
Madness they your head,


Do you know more than samuel johson,

When samuel johson wrote he never used the word oba and even wrote Voromiyan journey to benin in his publications



Untill our oba made those political remark of coming from ife, even yorubas never knew of it because it never existed ,
Eweka made those statements for political homogeneity between edo and Yoruba people for
Political reasons out of minority fear soon we realized we were still marginalized after still claiming ancestory to yorubas we decided to pull out

Pls try and do without insults if you must mention me. Benin empire was one of Yoruba achievements in West Africa.

TAO12:
(1) Eweka II ruled from 1914, and died in 1933.

(2) There was nothing like the Old Western Region until the year 1967 when it was first formed.

(3) So, your wEsTeRn ReGiOn/pOliTiCaL rEaSon excuse drops dead right before your very eyes.

You have to come up with another lie. Yes you can do this. Remeber you're a Bini.

cc: lawani

thanks, the Benin empire was a sister state to the other West African Yoruba states like oyo, Ijesa and etc. The obas were Yoruba and they lived in a palace which was a city on its own with 50 thousand people, all these people spoke Yoruba and were Yoruba. That is the correct history which some edo revisionists are trying to rewrite. We won't let them.

davidnazee:
I bet if any part of the East Igbo Kingdoms have an outstanding and powerful history like Benin kingdom you Yorubas would have claimed it as a Yoruba empire founded by Yoruba. Afterall you claimed Yufi in Zimbabwe and Nupe as Ife.

this is not about claiming anything. It is about relating true history. Igodomigodo was edo but Benin empire was Yoruba. Nowadays Benin kingdom is now edo.

davidnazee:
No.. Edo was the original language spoken in Ife..

no matter how hard you try, you can not change the fact that Benin was a Yoruba empire.

The Yoruba and allies like bariba and fon should create a new state in West Africa to succeed oyo.

davidnazee:
You Yorubas are actually very shallow minded.. You guys really have slave mentality.. You sound like "house niggers" (those slaves employed to work in home administration rather than cotton fields. They always felt they were better than other slaves). So working in Benin palace which was the greatest palace in the world for your guys was an achievement. Benin Empire's ministers where Edos, army officials were Edos, administrators sent to administer conquered territories where Edos, jugdes Edos, so that means the work of the Yorubas slaves in the palace was, gardeners, cleaners, gatemen, houseboys and house girls.. so far they had these jobs in the great Benin palace was a boost for their weak ego.

Anyways please go read about why Yoruba were employed in the palace.. you will find it was because it is easy to punish them, behead them for any offence because they are foreigners and nobody will ask questions unlike if they were Edos then they cannot be treated unjustly..
so keep celebrating your weakness..

the early Benin's of the empire used Yoruba language throughout the length and breadth of the empire. They were Yoruba not edos.

If you, like Hinduism, accept that yours is not the only path to God, then that is not a religion, you are not in shackles.

TAO12:
Got it!

* But can you direct me to any reputable and redoubtable evidence or proof which states that the land which came to be known as Benin Kingdom was originally and indigenously Yoruba-speaking?? *

However, the evidence available to me is to the effect that the land which came to be known as Benin Kingdom is originally and indigenously Edo-speaking.

Yes, some few settlements in its Western frontier is originally and indigenously Yoruba-speaking for obvious reasons.

But the said influence of Yoruba language in the capital city and the palace only began later due to the Yoruba affiliation of its foreign governments.

you are right. Only the palace and the empire were Yoruba but Benin today is edo.

TAO12:
Yeah in a way. But I would personally not say it is a Yoruba Empire.

The general people of the kingdom are a different ethno-linguistic stock --- Edo.

It is only their government who traces its strict paternal genealogical origin to Ifẹ̀-Yoruba.

Some examples of the similitude to the foregoing scenario are as follows"

I won't regard the Ìjẹ̀búÒde-Yoruba Kingdom as an Ifẹ̀ Kingdom (even though it was founded by an Ifẹ̀ prince --- Ogborogan aka Obanta).

I won't regard the Iléṣà-Yoruba Kingdom as an Ifẹ̀ Kingdom (even though it was founded by an Ifẹ̀ prince --- Ajibogun aka Obokun).

I won't regard the Ọ̀wọ̀-Yoruba Kingdom as an Ifẹ̀ Kingdom (even though it was founded by an Ifẹ̀ prince --- Ojugbelu and his son Imade).

I won't regard the AdóÈkìtì-Yoruba Kingdom as an Ifẹ̀ Kingdom (even though it was founded by an Ifẹ̀ prince --- Awamaro).

I won't regard the ÒdeÒndó-Yoruba Kingdom as an Ifẹ̀ Kingdom (even though it was founded by an Ifẹ̀ prince --- Osemowe).

All these (and countless other Yoruba Kingdoms founded by Ifẹ̀ princes) are self-contained Yoruba Kingdoms in their own right, despite their government been originally from Ifẹ̀ (although the general populace being ethno-linguistically Yoruba in these cases).

Adopting this line of reasoning, it then becomes clear that the Benin Kingdom (whose general populace are not even Yoruba to begin with) is also a self-contained Edo Kingdom (arguably Empire) in its own right, despite their government been foreign --- i.e. originally from Ifẹ̀-Yoruba.

The use of Yoruba language in Benin Kingdom particularly is therefore simply due to at least two factors, (1) it is the original language of the ruling dynasty in the Kingdom, and (2) it is the language of the then most influential ethnic group in the West Africa forest region.

there were many indigenous people in the empire who had their languages among which is edo. Edo was the language of the Benin suburbs but Yoruba in the old empire outnumber the edo.

gregyboy:
We wont change history if there is no doubt....

We edos will even be happy to be called yorubas


But we cant be so insensitive and oveelook the loop holes made by eweka the 11,



Just know two things


Edo would be happy to be yorubas if there was no doubt in oba eweka ascertion

2) if ife and benin history was not a matter of debate by both the oba and yoruba people maybe they wont be need of this controversy if all oba of benins had said say yes to oromiyan establishing obaship not ekaladeran finding ife


And yet in all tgis the earliest yoruba writter never said oromiyan founded benin

I am not saying the edo are Yoruba. No they are not, but the Benin palace and empire were Yoruba speaking in the past. The palace was a city on its own, home to over 50 thousand people and all these people were Yoruba in language. Oranmiyan did not found Igodomigodo but renamed it to Ife ubinu. I just want it acknowledged that Benin in all its extent was Yoruba speaking officially and not edo speaking.

Nice story.

The edo have hijacked the history of the Benin empire, trying to ease out everything Yoruba in it when the empire was Yoruba in and out. We must always remind them at every given opportunity that Benin was totally Yoruba.

TAO12:
Lol. Not only is Yoruba language the lingua Franca in Benin Kingdom (as well as in many West African Kingdoms), the language of administration in the palace of Benin Kingdom is Yoruba.

See attachment below from:

R.C.C. Law's "Ethnicity and the Slave Trade: "Lucumi" and "Nago" as Ethnonyms in West Africa", History in Africa, Vol. 24 (1997), p.

that is my point in my other post Benin was a Yoruba empire.

davidnazee:
Bye... no be me you wan use increase posts for this yeye topic.

so the succession of oyo the greatest West African empire of its time is a yeye topic to you?.

Despite the fact that the economy of the olden days was not as diversified as what we have nowadays, they still managed not to have the problem of unemployment. In Europe they had feudalism and everyone was working the ground for the feudal lord and no one was left out, there was therefore no unemployment. In Yoruba land, everyone was a member of a compound called agbo Ile with a head called Baale. Everyone was thus accounted for with no one at all left behind. The society managed to tackle unemployment. It was a kind of ancient communism. A free market communism. The present society can learn from the olden days and be sharing out employment to all with no one left behind. Employment should be socialized.

WoruSulyman:
@lawani
@PabloAfricanus

I was searching for historical facts and stumbled upon this interesting thread.

Firstly, I am amazed how black men are clawing at each other's throat with history which we have no way of verifying and at best, we all have biased and distorted knowledge of. To be clear, everybody telling you history; the Yorubas, Fulanis, Hausas, Igbos or even british will only tell you with them at the heroic centre of history, so which ever history you know is as wrong as it is right. Also other races are constantly degrading the black man and some try to deny it's liberty, it is sad we will do worse to ourselves in the name of history, one that divide us, and pride that is yet to raise the black race to the equal of all other race.

I am Ilorin in every sense of it and I have a modest understanding of it's history. I will like to clear some little misgivings I have seen on this thread.

1. Ilorin was founded by neither Afonja nor Alimi, it was a man Ojo isekuse who was the first settler in Ilorin. Ojo was a yoruba man. Ilorin was a meeting point for hunters, Ojo and his family were the sole settlers.

2. Ojo left after a scandal. The Asaju's settled, they are yorubas and settled around the Ilorin sharpening stone, their family house is still there. At this point neither Afonja nor Alimi resides in Ilorin.

3. Then the Sholagberus, they are said to be Fulanis. Then numerous small individual settlers came from both the north and the south. There was no town, just individual settlers, so no king. Though, each settlers congregated by tribe and they had individual leaders. It was said there was serikin gambari then for the hausa settlers. Note; no Afonja, no Alimi.

4. Alimi went to Oyo from Gwandu preaching Islam before backtracking to Ilorin because of political turmoil in the old Oyo empire. It was said that was the first time Afonja heard about the cleric.

5. Afonja had a falling out with the then Alafin because of a war he was sent to fight that he considered a suicide mission. By Oyo tradition, when you go to war it is either you win or you die in battle, if not, you will be compelled to commit suicide back home. Afonja refused and went to hide in Ilorin.

6. Alimi later got to Ilorin too. The Alaafin was furious and sent a punitive expedition to Ilorin for Afonja. Afonja knew he wasn't going to win against Oyo and he consulted Alimi for spiritual and military help.
Note: at this point Afonja had the most military power in the town but there was no king, no leader still individual settlements.

7. Alimi wrote to Gwandu for military support for Jihad, he was obliged. Then came the Jama'a to the area now called Ilorin, it wasn't still a town at that point, Oyo lost because the Oyo army wasn't expecting to meet the Jama'as calvary. The problem wasn't solved get.

8. Alaafin became much angry and sent message to Oyo's vassal states to send military men to finish the Afonja rebels/the Jama'a. The forces in Ilorin could not withstand the might of Oyo, so Alimi again wrote to Gwandu. Gwandu refused citing ongoing Jihad in the north.

9. Alimi informed Afonja that no reinforcement is coming, but they could adopt a strategy called a pre-emptive attack, this meant that before Oyo could organize it's army, Ilorin which is not too far from the old Oyo empire marched on old Oyo empire before they were prepared for war.

10. Old Oyo fell and was burnt to the ground. Former smaller tributary villages of Oyo close to Ilorin were scared of attack from Ilorin and brought gifts. There was vacuum in the leadership of Ilorin which by the fall of Oyo become a baby town. Alimi was far older than Afonja (his real name was Salihu and was given the alias Sheu Alim roughly meaning "knowledgeable elderly one) and by virtue that the superior military power in the town (the jama'as) were loyal to him, he was the defacto leader but never named an Oba or an Emir, he never lived in any palace.

11. He sent for his family from Gwandu, he had four(4) sons and a daughter. After his demise, there was leadership tussle between Afonja, Alimi's sons and the Ilorin mallams(Alimi met some mallams in Ilorin and they accepted him as their leader because of his superior Islamic knowledge). The mallams was laying claim to an Islamic caliphate that won't be hereditary but knowledge based, Afonja because the whole rebellion was about him and there wasn't a king to that point, while the sons wanted to continue where their father stopped.

12. The sons had superior military might, so they killed everybody that opposed their rule including Afonja. They started Ilorin Emirate and AbdulSalam became the 1st Emir of Ilorin and was succeeded by Shitta, the emirship has been shared by these twos descendants ever since.

13. On balogun Biala of Ajikobi, he became powerful during the reign of Oba Moma. He maneuvered the other baloguns against Moma and used the Emir's immediate junior brother in a rebellion against him, the Emir was killed and Sulayman was installed. Sulayman was naturally fearful of the powerful balogun(similar to bashorun gaa) and hence was loyal till the British invasion in 1897.

14. Lastly, Ilorin lost the jalumi war but was never at the threat of annihilation by Ibadan. In fact, Ilorin successfully annexed much of the smaller towns of yoruba land as tributary states, including some Ibolo, igbomina and Ekiti towns, even Jebba and Shao were being administered by Ilorin princes until very recently. Ibadan was the Yoruba town that blocked the path of Ilorin expansion southwards.

History is a curious thing, where we have been can explain to us a lot about where we are and it can guide us on where we are going. But history is delicate and should be approached with caution as sometimes when we get to the root of history, we may discover we are not even who we think we are.
Also, everybody moved from somewhere and dominated other tribes at a point. The history of the world is that of migration and no man germinated like a seed where they now call home. Ilorin is what it is, it is not hausa nor fulani nor yoruba, it is more than a tribe, irrespective of language, rulers or it's culture, an homogeneous society has emerged from it's heterogeneous make up and it is better to learn to live with that.
Ilorin is Ilorin.

And I expect more pan-Africa discussions among us not ethnocentrism that was planted by our colonists to always keep us apart.

is the present emir of Ilorin Fulani or Gambari?.

Sammy07:
Yeah, you're right.
There are 4 baloguns in ilorin

yea we have Ajikobi, Alanamu, Gambari and Fulani, the fifth is Magari aare Afonja.

illicit:
The Emir is Fulani.
Gambari is a name.

why will a Fulani man be called Gambari?. In Ilorin, Hausa descent people are from Balogun Gambari family while Fulani descent people are from Balogun Fulani. When you hear Gambari that is Hausa.

seunmsg:
Kwara is a state and not a Fulani kingdom. That the current emir of Ilorin is Fulani doesn’t mean Kwara is a Fulani State. So many ethnic groups make up Kwara and the population of Fulanis in Kwara is not up to 10% of the entire population of the state. Yoruba’s form the majority of indigenous people of Kwara and that is why all the governors that have ruled the state since 1999 are all Yorubas.

Offa, Igbaja, Oro, Obo-Ekiti, Ajase Ipo etc are all Yoruba towns and are still being administered traditionally by Yoruba monarchs. So, how did all these towns lost their lands to Fulanis?

from his name, the emir of ilorin is Hausa descent not Fulani. Gambari means Hausa.

Sunshineg5:
What tribe is North central?

IN north central we have

igala, Ebira, Idoma, Nupe, Egon, Fulani, Yoruba, Igede, Bariba etc.

which LG is Fulani in North Central?

Olu317:
This information of yours isn't accurate because Oyo was not an Empire during Sango time. Are you even aware the strongest Yoruba kingdom was Owu(Onipole/Ipole axis ? But Owu dwindle after Oyo became the toast of all Yoruba emigrants due to trade route from all Yoruba enclave. And when it was sacked by Nupe war mongers ,which Oyo as a whole move to Nikki, Igboho before massive military establishment outfit to defeat Nupe warriors and her leaders to reestablished Oyo as a kingdom before she became Empire in 17th century . So, Sango in Nigeria was the third king but became second king after his elder brother was accused of being weak to defend his developing kingdom against Owu, which; a cousin brother's kingdom, with a ruthless ideology in the beginning seeking tributary. So, kindly posit information as near oral accoun even there is pinch of errors. Perhaps,can you back Oyo up with vassal states paying tributaries to Sango when Oyo was an Empire in 12th century ?

but it was during sango's time that ede was established. I think sango was an emperor not mere head of a city state.

The whole world should be a single market fashioned after the European Union. There should be free movement of people and goods. Governments should be compelled to depend upon income tax for revenue and not natural resources. This compulsion should be made via an international treaty. Once workers are made the main source of revenue of national governments, there will ensue a competition for tax paying workers across the globe by nations. In a short while the dichotomy of first world and Third World will cease to exist and there will be fairly even development across the globe. May God help us.

RedboneSmith:
At the time of Oranmiyan and his early successors Ajaka and Sango, Oyo was still a small city-state and was not in a position to exert tribute from anyone. Had it finished paying tribute to Owu and defending itself against Nupe and Bariba attack to see road to ask anyone for tribute?

in the time of sango, oyo was already an empire. It was sango that sent Timi to establish ede to protect oyo traders from the Ijesa.

AjaanaOka:
"Overthrow" is an inaccurate way of putting it. Asante was worsted in a war that may or may not have been fought with the Oyo. [The sources are not very clear on whether the war was with Dahomey or Oyo or with Dahomey with Oyo military aid.]

Plus the war didn't lead to an overthrow of the Asantehene. It only foiled his attempt to extend his imperium into the Western Yoruba area. The Asantehene remained a very powerful ruler, so "overthrow" is not true.

But it is fairly reasonable to say Oyo was the strongest West African state in the 18th century, after the disappearance of the great empires of the western Sudan, and after a series of internecine conflicts had weakened Benin.

the king of Asante was removed as a result of the war.

RedboneSmith:
Western scholars with interest in African history, that's who.

Why do you people like to pretend that we don't have evidence of Oyo conquering and exerting tribute from non-Yoruba groups in modern Benin Republic and parts of Togo?

in the 18th century oyo became the strongest power in West Africa when they overthrew the Asante king. Oyo extracted tribute from almost all Yoruba speaking people at one time or the other. Oyo was vast and powerful. The Calvary was the long arm of the empire. I wonder how people can claim interest in West African history and refuse to acknowledge oyo. Very shameful indeed. I

It is high time the Yoruba and allies in West Africa create an Oyo successor state and leave Nigeria which is a failed state already. Nigeria is a successor of the British empire and it has outlived its usefulness. Yoruba and allies like Fon, Bariba and others in Benin republic and Togo should be in one country, an Oyo successor. If west Germany and east Germany can reunite after decades to form a new Germany, then nothing should stop the Yoruba and allies to reunite in a post colonial era. West Africa should be restructurëd to reflect pre colonial realities. Ibadan succeeded Oyo and reunited the Yoruba for a while before the kiriji civil war broke out which was ended by the British.

gregyboy:
Lol, you're sleeping


Go sleep

you can start building your Igodomigodo or edo empire now where edo will be the lingua franca but Benin was Yoruba speaking not edo.

gregyboy:
And who brought this influence

Oranmiyan.

gregyboy:
Nope they adopted the yoruba they meant there with thier original benin dialect to form the language lukumi


Must i teach you how to use your sense when you're the sole proprietor of it

olukunmi is a Yoruba dialect today and it is not mixed with edo. You don't need to be rude.