₦airaland Forum

bigfrancis21:
Actually, in terms of numbers Yorubas were among the least sent to the Americas. Figures put it at about 500,000. The figure of those who actually settled might be smaller when you take into consideration those that returned to Sierra Leone and Lagos in the 1800s. The preponderance of the Yoruba culture in Latin America due to Yoruba's late arrival doesn't necessarily translate to high population numbers.

IF YOU KEEP SAYING MOST SOUTH AMERICAN YORUBAS ARE IGBOS THOUGH MANY OF THEM KNOW EXACTLY WHICH YORUBA SUBNATION THEY CAME FROM, HOW ABOUT THE 40 PERCENT OF NIGERIAN IGBO POPULATION WHO ARE OSUS? I HOPE YOU KNOW 99 PERCENT OF OSUS ARE YORUBAS?.

THESAME REASON VILLAGERS LOOK AT CITY DWELLERS AS ADVANCED HUMANS

Olu317:
YORUBA ARE MANY AND I AGREE WITH YOU BUT NOT ALL COLOUR AMERICAS DESCENDANTS ARE OF YORUBAS DESCENDANTS THOUGH WE ARE THE LARGEST AMONGST THEM ALL.

IF YOU COLLECTED A CULTURE FROM YOUR FOREBEARS OR FRIENDS AND CARRY IT ON, YOU OWN THAT CULTURE AND YOU ARE THE CUSTODIAN. WHO ARE YOU TO SAY A WHITE MAN IS NOT A YORUBA? ARE DR SOLARIN'S CHILDREN NOT YORUBA? IS SUSAN WENGER NOT A YORUBA? YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO DISINHERIT SOMEONE FROM AN INHERITANCE PASSED DOWN TO THEM LEGITIMATELY!.

IF THEY PRACTICE THE CULTURE, THEY ARE YORUBA MORE THAN YOU!

THEY ARE NOT ONLY YORUBAS BUT ALSO INCARNATIONS AND REPRESENTATIONS OF THE ANCIENT YORUBAS.

Probz:
I guess the majority of us have been labouring under an illusion for all our lives and that Itsekiri na Edo be the same ethnic group. Wow. Any other adulterated "facts" (aka outright lies) you wan tell us this night?

IF YOU ARE SPREADING STORIES THAT BENIN IS NOT YORUBA, THEN YOU ARE SPREADING ILLUSIONS BECAUSE OLD BENIN WAS A CITY IN WHICH THE OLUKUNMI LANGUAGE WAS SPOKEN BUT WHICH HAD EDO SPEAKERS IN THE SUBURB. CITIES THAT LOOK LIKE OLD BENIN TODAY WOULD BE OWO, WARRI, IGBOKODA AND ETC BUT WHEN BENIN COLLAPSED, EDOS OVERWHELMED THE PLACE FROM THE SUBURBS AND TOOK OVER THE CITY. THAT IS THE STORY. IFE IBINU WAS A YORUBA CITY IN EVERYTHING. WE HAVE TO BE REPEATING THIS BEFORE LIES BECOME TRUTH. HOWEVER IN THE BENIN EMPIRE WERE IGBOS, IJAW, URHOBO, EDO, ESAN AND ETC BUT NATIONAL CULTURE AND LANGUAGE WAS YORUBA, GIVEN A FEW MORE YEARS, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SPEAKING ONLY YORUBA. PRESENT YORUBA WERE NOT SPEAKING YORUBA IN THE PAST BUT AKOKO STILL SPOKEN IN NORTHERN EDO, KOGI AND KWARA. THE IJEBU STILL GREET THEMSELVES EWESO WHICH IS AKOKO. YORUBA WERE ALL AKOKO IN THE PAST.

FOCUS ON GETTING BIAFRA WITHOUT GETTING PEOPLE KILLED! THAT WOULD BE BETTER!.

Probz:
I can't take seriously a nigga who chooses to type exclusively in caps. Remove am, abeg. It doesn't make you sound any more knowledgeable or enlightened but quite the opposite.

Where the hell did I mention Bini?

WHEN A LIE IS ALMOST BECOMING A TRUTH (LIKE RELIGION) BECAUSE OF ENDLESS REPETITION, THEN TO QUASH IT, YOU NEED A LEVEL OF AGGRESSION, EVEN IF ONLY CAPS LOCK!. I MENTION BENIN BECAUSE ITSEKIRI AND BENIN ARE THESAME. WE OWE IT A DUTY TO LEAVE A PROPER LEGACY FOR THE NEXT GENERATION AND AS THINGS ARE, THINGS ARE BEEN TURNED UPSIDE DOWN RATHER THAN BEING UPHELD! PROPER RENDITION OF HISTORY IS VERY IMPORTANT, IT IS AN ACADEMIC DUTY, A SACRED ONE.

YORUBAS ARE EUROPEANS WHO MOVED SOUTH WHILE EUROPEANS ARE YORUBAS OR HAUSAS WHO MOVED NORTH. YORUBAS ARE IGBOS WHO DECIDED TO STICK TOGETHER TO BUILD NATIONS CONTAINING HUGE CITIES WHILE IGBOS ARE YORUBAS WHO DECIDED TO BUILD ONLY VILLAGES WITH MAX POPULATION OF 2000 SO THAT THERE WILL BE NO NEED FOR KINGS!. THEY DONT LIKE OVERLORDSHIP, SO LET THE VILLAGE BE AS SMALL AS POSSIBLE, SO THAT EVERYBODY COMES TO THE VILLAGE CENTER TO ARGUE AND MAKE DECISIONS!.


THOSE ARE THE REALITIES!. ALL HUMANS ARE THESAME!

SO, WHICH CULTURE IS OLDEST? YORUBA THEOLOGY SAYS IN THE FIRST ILE IFE, THERE WAS A KING OLOFIN AJALAYE AND THOSE PEOPLE DESCENDED FROM OUTER SPACE. SO I WOULD SAY IGBOS EMERGED LATER. THEY MUST HAVE BEEN REBELS WHO REFUSED TO RECOGNISE KINGS BUT SO FAR THEY DIDNT CAUSE TROUBLE, THEY WERE ALLOWED TO GO AND SET UP NEW SETTLEMENTS!. THEY HAVE BEEN DISCONNECTED FROM YORUBAS FOR UP TO 4000 YEARS I BELIEVE.

AWOLOWO DOES NOT NEED FORGIVENESS BECAUSE HE DID THE RIGHT THING. HE WAS NOT IN ZIK'S PARTY, SO WHY WILL HE SUPPORT ZIK? IT WAS ZIK THAT SHOULD HAVE SOUGHT ALLIANCE WITH THE ACTION GROUP AND CONCEDED PREMIERSHIP OF WEST TO THEM OR TO A YORUBA IN NCNC BUT RATHER ZIK ATTEMPTED TO BECOME THE WESTERN PREMIER EVEN AS HE WAS JUNIOR TO MANY YORUBAS!. THAT TO ME WAS NOT SMART. ZIK WAS A JUNIOR MAN IN ALL RESPECT TO MANY YORUBAS BACK THEN. THERE IS YORUBA NATIONALISM AND UNDER THAT. THERE IS IJEBU, EGBA, IJESA ETC. SAME WITH IGBOS! TO THINK WHAT ZIK TRIED WOULD HAVE WORKED IS VERY SILLY INDEED! HOWEVER YOU CANT BLAME NON NCNC MEMBERS, FIND THE NAMES OF THE NCNC MEMBERS IF THEY EXIST AND BLAME THEM! FACT IS THEY DONT EXIST! NCNC NEVER HAD MAJORITY.

LET EVERYBODY MAINTAIN THEIR LAND AND QUIT TRYING TO ASSERT THEMSELVES OVER OTHERS. THAT WILL ENSURE HARMONY. WE NEED A LEVEL OF NAZI IDEOLOGY TO MAINTAIN HARMONY. YORUBA LAND IS YORUBA LAND WHILE IGBO LAND IS IGBO LAND. HAUSA TOO. INSIDE YORUBA, YOU STILL HAVE IJESA, IFE, IJEBU ETC. BOUNDARIES ARE VERY IMPORTANT.


ON THE CIVIL WAR. THE BIAFRAN LEADERSHIP WAS WRONG TO MOVE TROOPS INTO THE MIDWEST AND WEST THAT WERE HITHERTO SUPPORTING AND REFUSING PASSAGE FOR THE NIGERIAN ARMY! PEOPLE CHERISH THEIR LANDS. NIGERIA IS NOT US. THIS IS A CONGLOMERATION OF TRADITIONAL STATES THAT ARE DISTINCT. THE CIVIL WAR WAS BETWEEN HAUSAS AND IGBOS AND IF BIAFRANS HAD NOT OVERPLAYED THEIR HANDS BY INVADING THE WEST TO COLONISE THEM, BIAFRA WOULD HAVE SUCCEEDED, NORTH WOULD BREAK UP TOO EASILY BUT BIAFRA BUNGLED THAT OPPORTUNITY. HOW CAN IGBOS ATTEMPT TO COLONISE YORUBAS? IF YOU REASON WELL, YOU WILL REALISE, THAT WAS AN EFFRONTERY ON THE PART OF BIAFRA!


SO AWO IS NOT SORRY AND DONT NEED TO APOLOGISE TO IGBOS OR ANYONE. IF YOU WERE HIM, YOU WOULD DO THESAME.

Probz:
And I guess the 15th-century contact the oyibos/Portuguese had with the Niger Deltans (Ijo and Ishekiri), well preceding the 1800s, counts for sweet fu*k all, abi?

And I'm not being funny but is there any need for the caps? Why are you shouting down the poor dude at 4am?

WHEN YOU SAY ITSEKIRI OR BENIN, WE ARE STILL SAYING THESAME THING AS YORUBA. THERE ARE IJAWS ON THE YORUBA SIDE AS INDIGENES BUT NO IJAW SOVEREIGNTY ON THIS SIDE BEFORE COLONISATION. IJAW SOVEREIGNTY OCCURRED ONLY IN THE EASTERN SIDE AND IT BECAME PROMINENT AFTER THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION BECAUSE THEY CONTROLLED A PORTION OF THE PALM OIL TRADE. THEY INFACT CONTROLLED PALM OIL SALES TO EUROPEANS. THE KINGDOM OF IWERE (WARRI) IS PART OF THE YORUBA I SPOKE ABOUT AND THAT KINGDOM CONTAINED URHOBO, IJAW AND ETC AS WELL.

Abagworo:
Be careful what you write son. Many of us are versed in African history and here is not for fairytale or figments of your imagination. Togo ko Ghana ni.

YOUNG MAN, YOU ARE NOT VERSED IN HISTORY, YOU ARE INFACT UNEDUCATED IN THAT SECTOR! AS A MATTER OF FACT YORUBAS HAD BEEN DEALING WITH EUROPEANS FOR ALMOST FIVE HUNDRED YEARS BEFORE KNOWING THERE ARE PEOPLE CALLED IGBOS, EFIK, CALABAR ETC. AS AT EARLY 19TH CENTURY, THE WHOLE OF THE WEST AFRICAN COAST COMPRISING GHANA, TOGO, BENIN REPUBLIC AND YORUBA NIGERIA WERE ONE FEDERATION WITH HEADQUARTERS IN OYO ILE. MOST OF YOU ARE JUST IGNORANT AND UNEDUCATED.

Olu317:
YOU DONT EVEN KNOW THE STORY MISTER MAN. DO MORE RESEARCH AND KNOW WHERE SOME YORUBA WERE CAPTURED DUE COLLAPSE OF OYO EMPIRE. WE HAVE PAID OUR DUES AS GREAT KINGDOMS WHAT DO YOU IBOS HAVE TO SHOW? and does it mean your Nri were the first settlers of human habitat? the oldest place where human (homo) habitat with skeleton to proof it was found in Yoruba land as far as Nigeria is concerned. So do your findings very well. Stop peddling wrong information on a social media as big as this FORUM.

THE SPANISH AND PORTUGUESE ARRIVED ON THE WEST AFRICAN COAST LATE 15TH CENTURY TO MEET PEOPLE THERE AS VERY ADVANCED. THEY RELATED AS EQUALS. I MEAN THE YORUBA HELD WEST AFRICAN COAST. YORUBA WENT TO SOUTH AMERICA AND EUROPE WITH THEM AND YORUBAS DEFINITELY WERE IN SOUTH AMERICA BEFORE NATIONS LIKE BRITAIN AND GERMANY. IF IGBOS CANT SAY THEY SURPASS GERMANS IN THE AMERICAS, HOW CAN THEY SURPASS YORUBAS? IS IT BECAUSE BOTH ARE BLACKS? JUST LIKE YOU MENTION GERMAN, BRITISH, SPANISH, PORTUGUESE IN THE AMERICAS IS THE WAY YOU MENTION YORUBA. THEY HAVE BEEN THERE FROM THE START! THEY STARTED TOGETHER!. PRESENTLY, THERE MAY BE MORE YORUBAS IN SOUTH AMERICA THAN IN WEST AFRICA! INFACT THAT IS DEFINITELY SO. THERE ARE WHITE YORUBA!. YOU CANT SAY THEY ARE NOT YORUBA BECAUSE THEY ARE DESCENDED FROM OR HAVE ADOPTED THE YORUBA CULTURE. DONT FOCUS ON RACE. YORUBA CAN BE ANY APPEARANCE. FROM THE BEGINNING, THERE HAVE BEEN WHITES AMONG YORUBA BECAUSE WE HAVE GENES ORIGINATING FROM EUROPE EVERYWHERE IN WEST AFRICA. YOU ARE BLACK ONLY BECAUSE OF CENTURIES OF TAN.
IGBOS WERENT MUCH IN THE PAST I BELIEVE AND TODAY ALL OSUS ARE MOST PROBABLY DESCENDED FROM YORUBA SLAVES. IGALAS ARE YORUBOID. SO IF IGBOS ARE PLENTY TODAY, IT WAS AT THE EXPENSE OF MAINLY YORUBAS, THEY SHOULD BE GRATEFUL!.

IF A YORUBA MARRY A FRENCH WOMAN AND THE CHILD MARRY A CHINESE ON LIKE THAT WHILE THERE ARE A MILLION PEOPLE LIKE THAT MARRYING CHINESE, RED INDIANS, EUROPEANS JAPANESE WHILE THEY MAINTAINED THE YORUBA CULTURE AND TRADITIONS BUT NO LONGER LOOK LIKE WEST AFRICANS, ARE YOU SAYING THEY ARE NOT YORUBA? THAT WOULD BE TOTALLY WRONG! THEY ARE YORUBA AND EVEN THEY ARE THE ONLY TRUE YORUBAS REMAINING! IF YOU CANT SAY ASHKENAZI ARE NOT JEWS, WHY SAY SOUTH AMERICANS ARE NOT YORUBAS?

Olu317:
GBOGBO been used by OyO was borne out development of Yoruba language in the olden days and borrowed words from other Ethnic groups .It is just as Lagos been developing heavily a modem Yoruba language more modern than OyOs of this world and being accepted majorly now by all Yoruba speaking groups Please don't follow the footsteps of some people who tried to compare Yoruba language to Ibos with similarities because Yoruba language has in it many languages either of semetic/asiatic/egytians etc and also with our neighouring tribes but are quite different in many ways.Words in Yoruba can be spelled as same in Ibos but doesn't mean the same. I have seen journal online /documents written before 19th century with the use of the word “Igbo"was solely used by Yoruba nation. Until around 1920s or 1930s that Ibos changed the name associated with them which was written as Igbos OR IBOS .Yoruba language are different with due respect because it is enshrined in IFA EULOGY/Praise . Even Ebira that has been Yoruba neighbour for thousands of years are known by ancient Yoruba people as different from them.

DESPITE IGBOS NOT SHARING BORDER WITH YORUBA, THE TWO GROUPS SHARE A HUGE NUMBER OF WORDS. THE SHARED WORDS ARE VERY MANY AND THE GBOGBO IS ONE OF THEM

GBO MEANS ALL IN BOTH TONGUES
OKUTA MEANS STONE
OKA MEANS MAIZE
GIRIPA OR DIMKPA IS ADULT MALE
IGBA MEANS TIME
AGBALA MEANS COURTYARD
AKUKO OR OKUKO MEANS COCK
EWU OR EWURE IS GOAT
SO IS SUO MEANS SAY
ULO AKWUKWO IS ILE EKO SCHOOL

THERE ARE MANY SUCH WORDS. QUESTION NOW IS HOW DID OYOS MANAGE TO RETAIN GBO AS ALL WHILE THE GROUPS NEAREST TO IGBOS USE DEDE? THAT IS AN ACADEMIC QUESTION. I HOPE YOU SEE THE POINT!

Olu317:
IT IS SAME IN A WAY .. FOR INSTANCE. IF ONE IS ACCUSED OF JUMPING OVER THE WALL, OGIRI IS MORE MODERN THAN IGANNA. IT CAN BE INTERCHANGE FOR EACH OTHER. FOR INSTANCE IF IT IS SAID AS ..O FO IGANNA..IT IS JUMPING OVER A WALL OR FENCE IN AWAY. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? WALL'S DEFINITION is a barrier or a continuous upright structure forming a side of a building or enclosing or dividing an area of land While FENCE is a barrier made of wire or wood enclosing an area. Though WALL IS more definite but both are synonyms when defined. .

WHEN YOU TALK OF INDOOR WALL FOR INSTANCE, THAT IS ALWAYS OGIRI AND THAT IS NOT FENCE. SO THE TWO WORDS ARE ACTUALLY DIFFERENT. FO IGANNA IS JUMP OVER A FENCE. YOU DONT SAY FO OGIRI. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT WORDS. ONE IS FENCE AND ONE IS WALL.

Olu317:
That is decadence to which ancient Yoruba word are being thrown away. Iganna simply mean “wall" and when you direct someone to stand beside the wall duo or du ro si ibi/ara/égbé iganna. God help us ooo. Young people are really loosing the Yoruba language and I hope our Yoruba anguage won't be whipped out of existence due to Nigeria. The Yoruba people in diaspora of whom either as a result of slave trade or self imposed exile for greener pasture look unto the YORUBA PEOPLE AT HOME TO PUT THEM THROUGH. I sincerely hope Yoruba people will do justice to this damning problem. And salvage the language.

IGANNA (DO DO MI) MEANS FENCE WHILE OGIRI (DO RE RE) IS WALL, I WOULD SAY! THEY ARE NOT EXACTLY SAME WORDS LIKE FENCE AND WALL ARENT!

ON DEDE AND GBOGBO, IT IS AMAZING THAT GBOGBO IS USED MORE AMONG OYOS THOUGH OYOS ALSO SAY DEDE, IT IS AMAZING BECAUSE GBOGBO MIGHT BE MORE ANCIENT THAN DEDE! GBOGBO ALSO OCCURS IN IGBO LANGUAGE AND OYOS DONT BORDER WITH IGBOS! REALLY FUNNY! TAKE AN IGBO NAME LIKE ONUIGBO, IT MEANS MOUTHPIECE OF EVERYBODY. NDIGBO MEANS EVERYBODY JUST LIKE IDI GBOGBO MEANS EVERYBODY. SO HOW COME OYOS USE GBOGBO MORE WHILE THOSE NEARER IGBOS USE DEDE? THAT IS A MYSTERY!. HOWEVER, THE MAIN YORUBAS DONT BORDER WITH IGBOS, APART FROM THE OLUKUNMI IN DELTA STATE.

TuCloz:
First of all, exporters of the commodity has to be highly encouraged. More than 40% of cocoa leaving the shores of this country are leaving as 'ghost' unrecorded; they are being smuggled out because of the wide margin between the official and the black market rates. How easy is it to export cocoa out of the country as we speak? What registrations and levies are standing in the way? Take care of all those before seeing the farmers!

You dont need to smuggle cocoa out. The buyers come to Nigeria with millions of dollars which they change in the black market, so no need for smuggling of produce but the middle men can under declare at grading offices to avoid grading charges which is per tonne. I believe no charge at cuistoms.

COMPAQ:
The power isn't even in simply being the largest producer/exporter of Cocoa. It's in being able to have industries to process all that Cocoa before its exported. Food processing is where the real value add is.

YOU CAN DEVELOP YOUR OWN COCOA FOR YOUR LOCAL MARKET BUT YOU CAN NOT SAY EUROPE SHOULD CLOSE DOWN THEIR DOWNSTREAM COCOA INDUSTRY WHICH IS WORTH HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR FOR YOU! IF YOU REFUSE TO SELL RAW BEANS, THEN THEY WILL BAN YOUR CHOCOLATES IN EUROPE! WHO BORN MONKEY?.

I READ A REPORT IN THE PAPERS WHERE THE PRESIDENT OF NIGERIA COCOA ASSOCIATION SAID 'THIS UNION HAS 5 MILLION MEMBERS, THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD MAKE SURE WE GET THE CORRECT PESTICIDES BECAUSE IF THE EU REFUSES OUR PRODUCE, CAN THE GOVERNMENT CURTAIL THE BACKLASH?'. IT WAS A WARNING. ANOTHER TIME IN ILE IFE, A MAN WHO IS A PRODUCE MERCHANT AND COCOA FARMER TOLD ME NIGERIA GETS MORE THAN DOUBLE THE LOAN ADVANCED TO GHANA BY THE WORLD BANK FOR COCOA YET REPORTS SAY GHANA PRODUCES MORE. SO THOSE ARE THE ISSUES. YOU CANT KNOW WHAT THIS COUNTRY PRODUCES UNTIL IT IS WELL ORGANISED. WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT ONLY THE GOVERNMENT DEPENDS ON OIL MONEY NOT THE MASSES. WHAT DOES GOVERNMENT MEAN BY SAYING THEY WANT TO DEPEND ON COCOA, THAT ISNT INTELLIGENT, CAN YOU DEPEND ON NOLLYWOOD, CASHEW EXPORT, YAHOO YAHOO, CHARCOAL EXPORT, KOLANUT, BITTER KOLA, GINGER, PKO ALL OF WHICH ARE TOP DOLLAR EARNERS? NO YOU CAN ONLY SEIZE OIL MONEY. SO YOU CAN NOT DEPEND ON COCOA!.

THE IDEA OF A WRITTEN SCRIPT WITH WHICH PEOPLE SPEAKING DIFFERENT LANGUGES CAN COMMUNICATE IS VERY GOOD. IT IS USED IN CHINA. IT IS CALLED AROKO IN YORUBA BUT NOT DEVELOPED LIKE NSIBIDI. SUCH A SCRIPT SHOULD BE TAUGHT GLOBALLY. THEN THE BRITISH REALLY HELPED IGBOS! IF NOT FOR THE BRITISH WHERE WILL IGBOS BE TODAY? IGBOS ARE THE MAJOR AFRICAN GROUP OPENED UP BY EUROPEAN COLONISATION AFTER THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF LOCKING IN THEMSELVES WITH THE PHILOSOPHY 'IGBO ENWEGHI EZE'. IGBOS NEED TO BE GRATEFUL TO THE BRITISH MORE THAN OTHERS. YORUBA, HAUSA, ETC WERE ALREADY MODERN EARTH NATIONS WITH HUGE CITIES BEFORE COLONISATION BUT NOT SO FOR THE MAJORITY OF IGBOS SAVE AROCHUKWU. THAT IS WHY IN AFRICA, IGBOS ARE THE BIGGEST GROUP TO BE OPENED UP OR UPGRADED BY EUROPEANS

ppuyiosa:
I am intrigued on all you notes on some of the Ifa odu's. Can you give me more info on Irosun-Ogbe ?

I DONT KNOW ANY IROSUN OGBE STORY AS I AM STILL LEARNING. HOWEVER IF YOU ASK A QUESTION LIKE 'SHOULD I MARRY HER?' OR WHO IS THIS PERSON I WANT TO MARRY? AND IROSUN OGBE IS CAST. THE MESSAGE IS 'SUPPORT THE BLESSING OR SHE IS A SUPPORT FOR YOUR BLESSING. DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU ASKED! THEN IT MIGHT COME WITH IRE OR IBI. IF IT IS IROSUN OSA, IT MEANS YOU SHOULD RUN! ETC

Vorpal:
I think it's too ambitious at the moment even if possible to reclaim such lands. Plus the kings over such land, will they be willinging to be part of a yet developing state as opposed to Lagos which has already attained mega city status?

Honouring Awo with the Ikenne thing putting into consideration how much he has acheived in Yoruba land is quite overly placating to me. He has roads named after him all over the country as well as a university named after him. He could as well have something named after even after ijebu state is formed.

However I still think going Ijebu-Ijebu way is a better format seeing as no region denies being ijebu as well as even distribution of government awareness and infrastructural development all over ijebu land. I hardly think the Akarigbo would even be opposed to that idea. The Awujale will just have to be a paramount figure that he is and look at the bigger picture.

Ikeja is the state capital in Lagos,yet lands on the island are way expensive and more concentration of commercial industries on the island.People naturally gravitate to the area with better prospects either capital or no capital.

IJEBU IS IJEBU. THAT IS A TRADITIONAL STATE. NOTHING TOO AMBITIOUS IN MERGING IJEBU LANDS. IT IS TO MAINTAIN PROPER IDENTITY AS IT SHOULD BE. LEAVE IJEBU FOR IJEBUS AND THEY WILL DEVELOP IT WITH HELP FROM OTHERS WHO ARE WILLING TO COOPERATE WITH THEM. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO MAINTAIN SANITY ON EARTH. A LARGE PART OF LAGOS IS AWORI ETC.

Vorpal:
@spiralwedge

How is ijebu ode being capital makes shagamu subservient to ijebu seeing as the remos are ijebus too?

Last i heard of that state creation is

Obasanjo said he supported it only if ikenne were the capital in respect to awo.

Akarigbo said if ijebu ode were to be capital then another name will be for the state, or an ijebu state then the capital at ikenne, which makes me wonder why not sagamu?

Awujale says ijebu state and ijebu ode as capital.

The odogbolu thing wasn't a rumour, the awujale stated that himself as he was told by abacha.

It's a tough one to decide as am ijebu myself. Leaves one to wonder what position does the awujale have to take to achieve it's state?

Why don't it go like kano kano, sokoto sokoto, so we have ijebu ijebu and have all major governments institutions distributed across these domains that make up ijebu as a whole?
In sum concentration of power will not be to ijebu ode alone so as not to seem overriding to others.

IJEBU HAVE TOWNS IN OGUN AND LAGOS STATES. THEIR AIM SHOULD BE TO MERGE THOSE TOWNS AND TAKE CONTROL OF THEIR LANDS. WHERE THEY PUT CAPITAL IS THEIR HEADACHE. EREDO THE SPRAWLING CAPITAL OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO IS NOW BUSH. WHY NOT IKENNE TO HONOR AWO? YOU ALWAYS DO SOMETHING BECAUSE OF SOMETHING.

NO JUNIOR KINGS, EGBA KNOW THEIR TOWNS, IJEBU KNOW THEIRS IN LAGOS AND OGUN STATES, IJESA KNOW THEIRS, IFE KNOW THEIRS, THEY HAVE KINGS, JUNIOR AND PARAMOUNT. SO NO ONE SHOULD CALL THE FACE OF A NATION A JUNIOR KING. THAT IS NOT RIGHT. IJESA, IJEBU, EGBA, AWORI ETC ARE ALL NATIONS.

HOW DOES A REASONABLE MAN WITH COMMON SENSE ACCEPT THAT JESUS DIED FOR PEOPLE'S PAST AND FUTURE SINS OF RAPE, LYING ARMED ROBBERY, HUMAN RITUALS? THIS IS WHAT THESE THUGS ARE SPREADING AS GOSPEL! MAYBE WITH 2 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR OR MORE. THEY KILL EVERY AND ANYBODY IN THEIR WAY!


IT HAS TO STOP AND SOON!.

mandarin:
Let me demystify your erroneous belief. The North isn't 80% Muslim. The only region in Nigeria that can boast of over 75% indigenous Muslim population is the Northwest, comprising Kano, katsina, sokoto, zamfara, kano, Jigawa, kebbi and kaduna. Southern kaduna is Christian dominated and atheists. There are also indigenous Christians in Kebbi and other states. Admittedly, that is the Muslim dominated part of Nigeria, you can give it 90% to 10%.

The Northeast, although, has majority Muslims but high percentage of Christians especially in Southern parts of Bauchi, Gombe, Borno, Adamawa and Yobe especially indigenous population. For your information, a whole lots of places where Boko Haram has been very active were Christian areas give rise to suspicion that it may be an approach of decimating Christians in that part of Nigeria. Ascribing percentages here is a bit difficult but in the states of Borno, Gombe, Bauchi, Yobe, Adamawa, indigenous Christians cannot be less than 30% while atheist like 5-10%

The middle Belt states of kwara, kogi, Benue, Taraba, Niger, Plateau, Nararawa are a mix of both religions of which when you pull the population together it may be like 55% Christians to 40% Muslims and 5% atheists.

Of course the southwest of Nigeria is known to all and among the indigenous Yoruba people where you have probably the highest Muslims converts into Christianity in the world, is the melting pot of three religion and the headquarters of pentecostal/ Evangelical Christianity in Africa. Among the Yoruba you can safely assume around 60% Christians, 35%Muslims and 5% exclusively atheists.

The South South and southeast are Christian and atheists dominated with less than 1% Muslims.

When you put these estimates together you can't say Nigeria is muslin dominated.I have transverse this country and can safely say all those population data brandied by NBS and NPC are not empirical, they are just applying growth rate on disputed figures!
Taken that Muslims in the northwest especially give birth to many children, that is not to mean that the population of the north can now be double of the south, its against all natural law of habitat.The man who commented on Lagos committed that error probably pulling his data out of some make belief data in circulation. You can safely say that Nigeria is about 54% Christians today.

Your submission is intelligent but atheists are insignificant in Nigeria. They are only on facebook. Aborishia, Maiguzuwa, Dibia etc are not atheists! I am Aborisha. Then let us just say there are equal Muslim and Christians among Yoruba, 85 percent Muslim in NW, let us say NC is equal too because Plateau Benue are 80 percent Christian, Kogi is equal, Kwara and Niger are 70 percent Muslim. So NC is like SW, NE maybe 65 percent Muslim. SE and SS are 90 percent Christian. And NW and SW have the highest population. SW is split while NW is close to 90 percent Muslim.

HOW DID CRIMINALS AND THUGS COME INTO EXISTENCE? WHO CREATED THEM?

[quote author=cheruv post=52439398][/quote]BENIN IS IBINU AND THAT IS A YORUBA WORD. THE CAPITAL WAS A YORUBA CITY LIKE OWO OR WARRI SURROUNDED BY EDO SPEAKERS IN THE SUBURBS. YOU FIND EDO SPEAKERS IN BENIN AND SUBURBS ONLY. NOWHERE ELSE TILL TODAY WHEREAS YOU FIND YORUBA TOWNS BESIDE ASABA, WARRI IS A YORUBA TOWN AND ALL URHOBO, IJAW IN THE OLD IWERE STATE (WARRI) SPOKE YORUBA IN THE PAST WITH THEIR LANGUAGE. SO, BASIC REASONING EVEN WITHOUT RESEARCH SHOULD TELL YOU THAT BENIN EMPIRE WAS YORUBA LIKE OTHER YORUBA STATES. YOU ADDRESS BENIN OFFICERS ONLY IN YORUBA, THE BRITISH CORRESPONDED WITH THEM IN YORUBA LANGUAGE NEVER EDO WHICH WAS A DISTRICT LANGUAGE LIKE URHOBO, IJAW, ORA AND ETC. DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?

NRI HAD A LEVEL OF ORGANISATION BUT IT WAS NOT A STATE. A STATE REQUIRES AN EZE AND LARGE CITIES AND IGBOS HAD NONE. THE ARO CAPITAL WAS A CITY COMPARABLE IN SIZE TO YORUBA OR HAUSA CITIES BUT OTHER IGBOS HAD NO SUCH CITIES. EVIDENTLY THE AROS STARTED OFF AS IBIBIOS, THEN THE IGBO LANGUAGE AND CULTURE LATER PREDOMINATED BUT NOT WHOLLY. ARO IS NOT NRI CULTURALLY.

cheruv:
Aros migrated from Nri/Nshi/Nhi as businessmen before arriving at and conquering Arochukwu in 1700. The only non Igbo group they have relationship with are the Ibibio, who they conquered Arochukwu from during the Aro-Ibibio wars.
Like I told your brother omofunav in another thread, stop claiming relationship where there's none.
As for the topic at hand, Idu has no relationship with Igbos... Yes they conquered Anioma in the 1570s but were defeated and expelled from Anioma during the great Ubulu war of 1755. And since after that war, Idu has focused their conquests westwards.
The people you see claiming Bini influence in Igboland are descendants of the Bini soldiers that were allowed to settle after their army was defeated in the ubulu war...that's the same thing you see among some Northern Igbos that claim igala. After their troops were crushed in the battle of lake omelu-Igala in the 1800s, the scattered remains of their army settled among the northern population, give rise to the current igala in Anambra and Enugwu states

I AM NOT SAYING AROS HAVE RELATIONSHIP WITH YORUBAS, LEARNT FROM YORUBAS AND ETC. OF COURSE NOT BUT THEY GOT ESSENTIALLY SAME RESULTS!. THAT IS THE ISSUE. THE AROS LEARNT POLITICAL ORGANISATION SKILLS FROM THE IBIBIO. THEY WERE IBIBIO WHO BECAME IGBOS. THE REAL IGBOS WERE LESS CONCERNED ABOUT STATESMANSHIP, NATION BUILDING AND ETC IN THE PAST.

TO THE WEST, IGBOS ARE UNDER THE HEAVY INFLUENCE OF YORUBA AND IGALA. BENIN IS YORUBA, LEARN THAT TODAY. EDO WAS JUST A DISTRICT LANGUAGE. ANYTHING BENIN EMPIRE IS YORUBA. BENIN EMPIRE HAD MANY INDIGENOUS LANGUAGES BUT YORUBA WAS LINGUA FRANCA AND THE BENIN CAPITAL WAS YORUBA, EVEN BENIN PALACE ALONE WAS A YORUBA CITY OF WELL OVER 50,000 PEOPLE THAT SPOKE ONLY YORUBA. YORUBA PALACES USED TO BE CITIES ON THEIR OWN. EDO PEOPLE CAME FROM THE SUBURBS AFTER THE EMPIRE FELL.

AND AMONG IGBOS, THE MAJORITY OF THOSE NOW BRANDED OSUS ARE OF YORUBA DESCENT, EVEN DNA WILL CONFIRM THIS.

bigfrancis21:
Yea I may have learned something new. Most Nigerian or African languages follow the possessive-noun structure as I've noticed all my life, so I initially thought 'ibani egere' was an oddity, even more so given that the supposed 'ibani warlord' is barely fluent in it himself, most likely a mistake. I'll research more into this.

It doesn't negate fact, however, that he does not know jack in Igbani language yet makes the loudest noise about it on this forum.

IJAW IS AN ISOLATE. IT IS SAID TO BE STRUCTURALLY RELATED TO DOGON IN MALI AND DOGON IS RELATED TO BASQUE IN SPAIN ACCORDING TO SOME LANGUAGE ANALYSTS.

IF YOU ARE TALKING OF LANGUAGE, I BELIEVE YORUBOID, EDOID AND IGBOID ARE EQUALLY RELATED. A GOOD PART OF YORUBA VOCAB RHYMES WITH IGBO

IGBA- TIME
AGBALA- COURTYARD
GIRIPA- YOUNG MATURED MALE
OKUTA- STONE
OKA- MAIZE
EWURE- GOAT
AND ETC THERE IS A BOOK BY AN OAU PROF TREATING THE SUBJECT.


THE THING ABOUT YORUBA LANGUAGE IS IT STRUCTURALLY IS KEMITIC EGYPTIAN AND BY OVER 50 PERCENT VOCAB, THE REST OF THE VOCAB IS AKOKOID, NUPOID, EDOID, IGBOID , FON, IJAW, BARIBA, HAUSA AND ETC. IS IT A NIGER CONGO LANGUAGE? WELL, EVEN SIERRA LEONEAN CREOLE MAY NOW BE CLASSIFIED A NIGER CONGO LANGUAGE!. THE YORUBA LANGUAGE WAS NOT SPOKEN IN WEST AFRICA FIVE THOUSAND YEARS AGO, THE PRESENT YORUBA WERE AKOKOID WHICH MAY INFACT COLLAPSE INTO EDOID, IGBOID AND ETC AS AT THEN. HOWEVER NO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND EASILY ANY LANGUAGE SPOKEN 5000 YEARS AGO. THAT IS FOR LANGUAGE.

CULTURALLY, YORUBAS ARE CLOSER TO RUSSIANS, JAPANESE, BRITISH OR CHINESE THAN PRE NIGERIA IGBOS!. BUT AROCHUKWU IGBOS ARE CLOSER TO YORUBAS THAN THEY ARE TO THEIR FELLOW IGBOS THAT THEY SHARE BOUNDARY WITH.

AMONG YORUBA, THERE IS SUB NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY. YOU MIX IFE WITH IJESA THEN YOU WILL LIKELY HAVE PROBLEMS. THERE MUST BE RESPECT FOR BOUNDARIES.

IF YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW IKWERRE AND OGBA WERE ESTABLISHED, CONSIDER UGBODUMILA IN DELTA STATE BESIDE ASABA. UGBODUMILA IS THE BIGGEST OF MANY YORUBA TOWNS IN THAT AREA. IT IS MR TONY ELUMELU'S PLACE. THOSE PEOPLE TODAY ARE YORUBAS WHO SPEAK IGBO AS SECOND LANGUAGE. WHAT THEY SPEAK TODAY IS OWO LANGUAGE, THE LANGUAGE OF THE BENIN EMPIRE. THEY SPEAK IGBO TOO AND BEAR IGBO NAMES. WHAT IS MORE? THEY ARE DISCONNECTED FROM OTHER YORUBAS! THAT IS THE STORY OF IKWERRE AND OGBA, EVEN ONITSHA BUT THOSE ONES HAVE BEEN ASSIMILATED MORE. IN ENUGU, YOU FIND SUCH GROUPS AS WELL. I WOULD SAY THE IGBOS SURVIVED MAJOR EPIDEMICS THAT RAVAGED THE YORUBA AND REDUCED THEIR POPULATION.

YORUBOID SPEAKING BENIN PEOPLE ESTABLISHED IKWERRE, OGBA AND ETC PROBABLY BY CITING ARMY DIVISIONS ON THE LANDS, THEN OVER THE CENTURIES, THEY ADOPTED THE CULTURE OF THE SURROUNDING IGBOID PEOPLE AND ARE NOW AN IGBOID PEOPLE, THEY NO LONGER SPEAK A YORUBOID TONGUE. YET THEY ARE CULTURALLY DISTINCT FROM NRI IGBO. THIS APPLIES TO ONITSHA, ASABA, AROCHUKWU AS WELL.


IKWERRE NOW ARE MORE IGBO THAN IGALAS ARE YORUBA. IGALA ARE A YORUBOID PEOPLE WHO SPEAK A YORUBA DIALECT BUT HOLD THEMSELVES DISTINCT FROM THE MAINSTREAM YORUBA. THEY SPEAK THEIR DIALECT WHICH A YORUBA MAY UNDERSTAND WITH GREAT DIFFICULTY AND NOT YORUBA. HOWEVER, THAT DIALECT IS NOT NECESSARILY MORE DIVERGED FROM OYO OR IJESA DIALECT THAN OKUN YORUBA DIALECT IN KOGI. BOTH WILL LOSE AN OYO OR IJESA PERSON WHEN BEEN SPOLEN. IF THEY HAD BEEN MERGED WITH WEST, THEY WILL BE SEEN AS PURE YORUBA AND WILL SPEAK THE LANGUAGE TODAY. THEY CALL YORUBA IYAJI BUT YORUBA DONT EVEN KNOW THEM AS SUCH. WE KNOW EBIRA, NUPE, BARIBA WHO ARE NOT YORUBOID BUT THEY KNOW YORUBA AS IYAJI AND THEY HAVE AN OLD IFE ON THEIR LAND. IN THE CASE OF IKWERRE, THEY ALL SPEAK IGBO NOWADAYS.


TO OUTSIDERS, IKWERRE ARE IGBOS, IF ONITSHA IS IGBO, WHY NOT IKWERRE? NO DIFFERENCE. ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT PH WAS COSMOPOLITAN WITH MANY NON IKWERRE IGBOS WHOM THE IKWERRES SAW AS TRYING TO VIOLATE THEIR 'SOVEREIGNTY'. THATS JUST THE ISSUE. IF AN IKWERRE MAN IS NOT IGBO, THE OBI OF ONITSHA, OBA OF OGBA LAND, EZE ARO AND ETC TOO ARE NOT. SO, LET IGBOS RECOGNISE SUB NATIONS AS SEMI INDEPENDENT AT LEAST. THEY OWN THEIR LANDS. NO ONE WANTS TO BE DRIVEN OFF THEIR OWN LAND.

Kgdavid:
What we can agree upon is that while the Yorubas and Binis do share some cultural heritage, these two people groups remain quite distinct, and the notable inclusion of one yoruba prince in the genealogy of Benin rulers is not quite sufficient to erode those divisions.

In fact, the original edo people were already well established in the area, before the coming of oduduwa and the rule of Oranmiyan. You would be wrong to assume the fact of Oranmiyan ruling Benin for a short period extends to meaning that Ife in some way ruled Benin.

Further, Oranmiyan married a Bini woman and fathered the next Oba through her. The yoruba intrusion into bini rulership was altogether quite brief and did not in anyway result in the expansion of the Benin territory. This expansion in fact, would not occur until many centuries later, under Oba Ewuare, by which time any cultural significance of Oranmiyans brief stay in Benin, had long long been eroded. You see, the narrative of a "returning prince" as you put it, is of very little import in this debate. These territories were not ceded diplomatically; they were annexed economically and militarily. There's no two ways about it, the Benin empire was absolutely dominant, and yoruba influence in the Benin courts, sequel to the reclusion of Oranmiyan, was nil.

There is historical evidence that diplomatic relations may have existed between Benin and the Yoruba states in the Region such as Ife (of course), Owo, Ijebu and etc, but it is observable that Benin became more hostile and warlike towards these neighbors, as the slave trade flourished, expanding it's territories by military might in all directions, which, notably, was when Lagos was annexed.

And to set the record straight, Yoruba claims to Lagos are made tenuous for this reason, as it was the British who extinguished Benins grip on Lagos, turning it into their administrative base, and therefore providing some reasonable historical basis for the claim that Lagos is a no-mans land. But that is a debate for another day.

OLD BENIN WAS A CITY LIKE WARRI, OWO OR ONDO. IT WAS A YORUBA CITY SPEAKING YORUBA, RESIDENT PORTUGUESE SPOKE YORUBA. HOWEVER THERE WERE EDO SPEAKERS IN THE SUBURBS, WHEN BENIN FELL AS AN EMPIRE, THE PEOPLE FROM THE SUBURBS MIGRATED IN AND TOOK OVER THE CITY. THE BENIN EMPIRE IN ITSELF WAS A YORUBA EMPIRE WITH MANY NATIVE LANGUAGES INCLUDING EDO, IJAW, URHOBO, ORA AND ETC SO THE BENIN THAT HAD A POST IN LAGOS WERE YORUBA. THEN THE OONI WAS A MINOR ASKED TO STAY HOME BY HIS ELDER BROTHERS SOME OF WHOM HAD CHILDREN BEFORE HE WAS BORN. HE WAS ASKED TO STAY HOME AND BE PERFORMING RITUALS. IT WOULD BE WRONG TO CALL THE OONI KING OF YORUBAS


THE YORUBA SPHERE OF EARTH WAS A WORLD OF ITS OWN WITH NATIONS RECOGNISING ONE ILE IFE AS SOURCE, REPRESENTATIVE OF THE FIRST ABOVE WATER EARTH CIVILIZATION. THE IFE WAS PROTECTED BY SURROUNDING YORUBA STATES, IT WAS VERY OFTEN RELOCATED FOR VARIOUS REASON BUT SINCE EARTH BECAME HABITABLE, THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A DULY RECOGNISED IFE ACCORDING TO YORUBA THOUGHT. THAT MAY BE WHAT EDOS CALL IGODOMIGODO. YORUBAS CALL IT IFE. THE ZERO POINT OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION.

IT IS SAD THAT PEOPLE DEBATE ANYHOW BUT LET PEOPLE KEEP HISTORY PASSED DOWN TO THEM. ALL ARE VALUABLE! BUT FOR EDOS TO CLAIM BENIN IS A PIRACY. EDO WAS A LANGUAGE LOCAL TO A DISTRICT OF THE BENIN EMPIRE WHILE YORUBA WAS THE LINGUA FRANCA THROUGHOUT THE LENGTH. EDO ISNT OF A HIGHER STATUS AS A LANGUAGE THAN ORA OF THE AFEMAI FOR INSTANCE AND ALL AFEMAI SPEAK YORUBA. ALL THE IJAW, URHOBO ETC USED TO SPEAK YORUBA IN THE PAST ALONG WITH THEIR LANGUAGE NEVER EDO, SO IT IS WRONG TO CLAIM THE BENIN EMPIRE FOR EDO. THAT WOULD BE A GLARING PIRACY!


THEN ADA (DO MI) IN YORUBA IS CUTLASS, IDA (RE DO) IS SWORD. I WOULD NOT KNOW THE TONATION OF THE ADA IN EDO BUT I BELIEVE IT RHYMES WITH CUTLASS OR MATCHETE IN YORUBA.