₦airaland Forum

@pilgrim and cgift

Thanks for your warm response. Greatly appreciated.

I have read your replies and i see the points your trying to bring out which in most situations can be validly said to be true in respect of the negativities of the rcc as claimed but as i said earlier, am not concerned about the negatives because it would be an endless debate to prove this or that that might not necessarily sink into the die hard catholics out to defend the faith whether right or wrong but you have to understand that there is a big line in the way african catholics and european catholics take the issue of catholicism.

Most of the criticsms against the pope would really come as a suprise to alot of african nay nigerian catholics because, i can validly say 75% of them havent seen a pope in real life and rely mostly on the doctrines, media or what has been passed to them from mouth to mouth. The african tradition provides for utmost respect and the need not to question authority especially if it is a religious matter.

All catholics were born into the faith b'cos their parents were catholics and there is a need to follow the tradition till your intellectually wise to sift the grains and chaff. Unlike most protestant churches were you could change churches at will till you come to appreciate the one that fulfills your spiritual need, it's extremely difficult for a catholic to switch from the home he has come to know all his life.

Whether the issue of the mariotary or the issue of venerence to mary or the wordings of the popes and the rcc doctrines mean anything to catholics spiritually, is left for them because it's all the have known all their lives as 100% good and bad, right or wrong. They are neither participants in the politics of the vatican or the debates we so vigourously try to postulate here on this forum and other places of discuss. Think of the catholics some where in the remote part of nassarawa who isnt educated and relies on the teachings of the catholic church to get by day by day or the highly educated ones who choose to do the word of God under the banner of the catholic church such as dora akinluyi and a host of others.

The battle isnt what the catholic church teaches that is wrong or the references to mary and the worship to the statutes, but what these people actually do in their private lives.

Just the way muslims in the middle east are born into the faith and are bound to uphold the tenents of the muslim faith good or bad, is the way catholics feel. Agreed its too dogmatic in nature but imao the positives outweigh the negatives. Loads of priests i know, talk about the goodness of God and the teachings of Jesus alot. Maybe the issue of mary sharing the spotlight is too much for non catholics to stomach but the catholic church is not only filled with statements of prayers towards mary and the saints alone.

A popular prayer in the catholic church called the "Gloria" goes thus

" Glory to God in the highest and peace to his people on earth
Lord God, heavenly king, almighty God and father, we worship you, we give you thanks,

We praise you for your glory.

Lord Jesus Christ, only son of the father,

Lord God, lamb of God, you take away the sins of this world,

Have mercy on us,

You are seated on the right hand of the father, recieve our prayers.

For you alone are the holy one,

you alone are the lord,

you alone are the most high, Jesus christ, with the holy spirit, in the glory of the God the father.

Amen

This prayer actually acknowledges the prescence of God and the role jesus plays in our lives and the need to call on him in times of need. Prayers like this can be said by anyone who is a christian without any form of colouring of denomination and these are the kind of positive things i look forward to in the catholic church.

As cgift asked earlier, who is to act as checks and balances on the catholic church, and i reply, the same congregation would act as checks and balances on erring senior officials either quietly or in the open but it shouldnt be expected that you see it in your morning papers everyday. Diplomacy plays a big role and if you care to check the history of the catholic church, the atrocities in the earlier centuries have been greatly weathered down and hopefully in the years to come, mordern and contemporary ways of doing things would gradually change a tradition that has been there for centuries.

So all am saying is that while i appreciate the points against the catholic church not conforming with mordern day christian attitudes and lifestyles because it is extremely conservative, we should also look at the things that the catholic church has done positively to improve the lot of man and christianity and proclaim these issues more and make them conform more because everybody loves to be given a pat on the back for a job well done but when you expose the negatives more, you either make the person recoil deeper into his shell or make the person more dogmatic in his beliefs which is even more dangerous.

@cgift and pilgrim, i believe the handstance your recieving on these catholic threads from catholics is because the balance between the good and the bad of the rcc is totally non existent and you dwell so much on the negatives and i can assure you if out of 10 issues you bring about the catholic church and you at least give a thumb up for just one thing, concrete and effective debates would ensure devoid of the wranglings that have come to categorize these threads. E.g am no muslim but i appreciate the 5 tenets muslims observe daily. It's a worthwhile thing and if more christians could pick 2 or 3 of these things and apply in their daily lives, the world would be a better place.

So please temper your debates a little bit and you would be suprised the stoic silence from catholics would gradually wane and we could all share more knowledge which might not neccessarily be beneficial to us personally but our kids could grow up to be better christians and more wiser in the wordings of God when we talk to them about our experiences we have garnered.

Peace y'all

hey y'all, am back after my hiatus for a while and trying to clear my head from all these good cop, back cop syndrome about the catholic church and being a free thinker. I have to admit, it was pretty tough being away from all these debates and keeping an unholy silence to decipher what is really true and false and i think i have come to a final conclusion.

Having heard all the arguments against and for the catholic church, nothing beats evidence and practicality of certain situations at hand. After all am a lawyer and conclusive proof is all i need to win a case.

Firstly, i took it upon myself to attend the catholic church far away from my regular church to see things in a neutral perspective.

What i noticed and i would love to ask the antagonist of the catholic church is that, " Is everything about the catholic church totally negative and there's no positives that could be bettered in future?" Because everything seems to hang on the negatives of the catholic church 100% which imao is not totally fair.

like every other church, they do have a choir which praises God non stop and they recite passages from the bible. I know at this junction, the endless debate over which bible is right or false will creep in here, but the bottom line is that i noticed, they actually quote from the old testaments for the first gospel passage, the new testament during the second gospel reading and a specific chapter from any of the 4 apostles for the main gospel reading and during the sermon or homily as it's being refered in the catholic church, the priests do actually preach the word of God and although veiled references to Mary and the other saints do crop up, it all about the teachings of God which i dont think is wrong in any manner.

I took particular interest in last week's sermon that talked about the gifts of the holy spirit ( wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety and the fear of the lord)

It also dwelt on the fruits of the holy spirit ( joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity, mildness, faith, modesty, continency and chastity)

Now these are positives things about the catholic church that has been constantly overlooked.

Nobody is saying the popes of the past having done terrible things to bring the catholic churche's name to disrepute over the years and the current pope has made some gaffs of recent. But in as much as you point out these gaffs and and odd statements of the catholic church, these popes have also said and done things to reconcile other faiths and bring unity one way or the other and i think it's a worthwhile thing but at the same time, we should act as checks and balances for their excesses when they go above board.

Like in any other religion, there would be fanatics and extremists who would take the matters of faith to the heart and commit hideous sins and crimes all in the name of defending the church, but spare a moment for the true believers of god who are in the catholic faith to serve God and whether the issue of mary, the dead saints, the postulations of the vatican or erring priests and uncoordinated aspects of the canons, all i want to do and i believe so many catholics want the same is to serve God and if they think catholicism is the best medium for them, i think they should let them be.

I know it hurts alot of people about the extremities of the vatican, past and present and the doctrines sound totally imbecilic to loads of people, but i chose to ignore the negatives and chose the positives.

What finally convinced me that the catholic church is not that bad as postulated was a certain event that happened 2 weeks ago. There was this catholic society called the saint vincent de paul society that caters for the poor and neglected in the society. They went round the whole of lagos and collected almost 700 destitutes, retards and kids born with some form of affliction and feted them, clothed them and aided them with gifts and welfare packages from their meagre resources. I asked one of the members why they did such a thing, and he said, it's written in the bible to help the poor and ask for nothing in return, because it could be anybody who could be in that situation. Now i studied this man and found out that he was totally oblivious to the happenings of the vatican or the need to boast about his theological and intellectual superiority. He was just serving God and it had nothing to do with whether mary is the mother of God or who intercedes for who. He was just being a good christian and i know whether he was in another pentecosatal church or not, his quest to serve God is just his motto and nothing more. And it's from this little example, i chose to go back to the catholic faith, not to argue or defend the vatican, but to see it as a place of worship and assimilate the positives that is being thought about Christ and ignore things that i think would affect my beliefs and faith.

Every church has that person or group of people who try to explain the obvious beyond the comprehension of what the bible actually teaches and we can chose to accept it hook line and sinker or pray to the one and only God. We all need a medium to communicate and most catholics were born into the catholic church and although bad habits are hard to let go, but i'll go one step better and follow the word of God when it's being explained and preached to me, which is what wqe all need to attain that salvation.

Great to be back and please go on with the debates, it's quite an enchanting, entertaining, intellectual read and spectacle

God bless!

Hmm,wonder if kenny colected his navi bak,lol

It was part of the recording deal they signed at the beginning. The price of the navi would be calculated in cash and other fringe benefits with includes touring and recording costs which is recoupable by kennis music. So they are not collecting the navi back. It's part of his sign on fees but kennis get their money back through 80% sales of his c.d's, live show tickets and sponsorship and distribution deals deals as long as the contract lasts between them. So kennis music has reaped more than what was originally signed off to 2 face. The navi is just a tip of the ocean of what kennis has reaped back. It's better to own a label than be an artist under the label. Once a wrong and ill advised contract is illogically negotiated and signed by the artist, you dont blame the label for it's greed. The artist signed for it and is getting what was negotiated. So everyone insulting kennis should get a grip on their selves because 2 face accepted the deal and they are only reaping the rewards.

A music contract well negotiated and drafted is the lifeblood of any artist and whatever comes out of it is what you get

I have read alot of christian and muslim threads proclaiming how God is love and we were born in his own image and so many salivating enconiums on why we are here on earth but honestly, is this really so? We are born to eat, drink, shit, Bleep and die. In between, we love, smile, gossip, play and fight. Scientists say these are the traits that make us human but why bring me to a planet that am least prepared for? The wars, hunger, poverty, selfishness, hustle, bigotry, sickness, murders and a host of terrible things. Is that what life is all about?

Babies are born and before they see the world in an hour, they die? What is the essence of even bringing them to life? People are born blind, deaf, mute, handicapped, deformed etc. What did they do wrong and why punish them to suffer in a world that doesnt care about them and these people never begged to be born. Agreed that there are a few success stories out there that survived the storm, but a lot of doubt creeps in when you are being told heaven is a better option waiting for you after all these suffering here. What did i do wrong that i had to be pushed out of heaven to earth to suffer and die and later go back to heaven? It smacks of logic

All the dead saints, pastors, imams, politicians, historians etc are dead and gone and history only beckons their names but with all their fame and glory, what was their mission on earth from heaven that hasnt been bestowed upon me, the sick baby at birth, the child born with aids and so on? Is there a cruel way of doing things right from the top ( heaven)? Why should someone who worked so hard, comes back from work and thieves storm into his house, rape his wife, steal his money, shoot his sister in the leg and end up killing him? What is the essence of his life? Someone wields power, embezzle state funds, builds mansions and see people wallowing in poverty and doesnt give a hoot until he dies and wills everything to a child who ends up becoming the next billionaire without even breaking a sweat and it's passed on from generation to generation while hard working citizens find it hard to pay their monthly rents or children's school fees? Modeling agencies scout for the noah ramsey's of these world and shower them with money and media blitz while people with scars and tribal marks or funny looking faces are avoided like a plague and even scorned at. Does that still mean there is double standard in the remarks as to "we are made in God's image"?

Is this the great design from heaven? So please tell me if am wrong, what is the purpose of your life? Because i know mine is shit and just like rats or mosquitoes ( although we live longer than them) we are the same thing. We just come to life, drink, eat, shit, Bleep and die. History will only remember us but the the person being remembered is just a swag of decomposed soil.

Bottom line Life is a bitch and i'll do everything possible not to bring another soul to this planet so as to go through this kind of suffering that i am accustomed to

@gozizi

@ lawyer,
puh-leze!! I know your type. Coming here to claim that human exchange has destroyed your faith!! You never start!! Christianity is not for the faint-hearted. Catholicism is for the very brave-hearted, the true soldiers of Christ at the battle front! You've been sitting on the fence all this while so at least your experience here has forced u to take a stand. My advice?? Stand for something, or u'll fall for anything - like u just did for some posts on this thread!!

Glory to Jesus, Honour to Mary - Full Steam Ahead!!!!!!!!!

Firstly gozizi, you dont know my type and i probably was invested in the catholic faith way beyond you. I was born into a catholic family, did my holy communion at the age of 6, attended a catholic primary and secondary school, did my confirmation at the age 8 and almost enrolled at a catholic seminary in S.S Peter and Paul Ibadan to become a priest until events changed my course of studies.

My 3 aunts are nuns and my uncle is a priest. So i used to have the catholic blood flowing in me 24/7 but as i realised on this thread, it's either you take a stand on something and become extremely dogmatic in it and refuse to see the other side or you open up and analyse certain things that continue to remain a mystery and when questions are being asked in the right direction, half answers and truths keep on cropping up from all angles. I defended the catholic faith to the best of my ability then but realising that, catholicism would continue to bring and pose more questions than answers, isnt the best thing right now.

The proponents of catholicism would continue to defend the doctrine but you know your flying below the radar and blind to certain things which you do not know the cause or reason why it happened. The history of catholicism is so deep in secrecy that when every something new comes up negatively, you dont know where to look and argue for or against.

The issues these people have brought out about the mariolatory tendencies is indeed true and i have to confess that up till the moment i started reading these threads, i never knew how deep catholicism is centred on the issue of mary before God. Too many titles to mary, too many novenas to mary, to many intercessionary matters to mary and one wonders if catholics are not living in a falsehood.

I remember when i was a kid, my aunt took me to a catholic church to make sure i confessed to a crime that i know i did, but i couldnt tell her i was the one because of the retributions that might come out of it. She canned and punished me but to no avail until she too me to church in front of a shrine of mary and the fear of the statue there made me confess, but now i wonder, was it because of the statue of mary i confessed or because of the imaginative powers she possessed that made me confess?

It has taken me years to understand throught this thread, and i wish i had never gone through this catholic threads but what ever the mission was, it worked.

On the other side, me not chosing to be a member of any religion came out from these threads. Tomorrow, another smart alec in matters of the church, could come and rip christianity apart or the muslim faith or what ever religion and you come back to square one again. So there is no point. I'll just live by the day and see whatever direction i land myself in. No need to be a crusader today in one doctrine and jump ship to another one. The mind is a very powerful thing and whenever the mind starts to ask questions, then doubt creeps in and once doubts cannot be furnished with concrete truths and evidence, then falsehood emerges. I feel sad throwing away what i believed in for many years and the most difficult part would be revealing it to my family soon. But as i said, i remain open to issues of the truth and if there is just one iota of semblance of what the truth is,then am game for whatever.

Fellow catholics. It has been a while since i have been on any religious thread and though once in a while, i do monitor the discussions from the side lines, i have to admit, this is a very dangerous topic that has ended up achieving the aim of whoever wanted to pass a message across.

Since my previous banters with people that are against catholics, i have come to realise that, religious matters are dangerous topics to tread on and i have to say, whatever message has been passed here, has negatively affected my belief in the catholic church and for almost 2 weeks, i have thought and pondered over all the issues raised and i have finally come to a decision not to be a catholic or christian whatsoever.

There are so many arguments all in the name of God and what should be right and what's not right and whose scripture is the best to read and whats not to follow. It's a little bit disheartening where mankind would go to great extend to discuss things that could potentially damage one's spiritual life.

I have no grouse against anyone and probably think it's the best thing to do. I remain a free thinker and would vigourously try and understand the meaning of all this. It's too difficult to understand and it would be best to finally sign off from these kinds of boards lest i get more bleeped up than i am already. I really dont know how many people have been braintwisted like me by reading all these posts but as for me, the easiest way is the best way out.

Religion is too complicated and i'll just wait till the end of time good or bad, i'll remain a freethinker for life from now on.

Hope someone out there prays for me to see the light someday, but as for now, i doubt even if i believe in prayers anymore to whoever or whatever

@ poster

Instead, i'll give you 10 reasons chelsea fans have inferiority complex near Arsenal:

1. Despite all your billions chelsea has spent to become a big club, Arsenal with all it's modesty and astute financial planning is still richer than you and would continue to be richer than chelsea till this world explodes

2.Arsenal pitch has won the best playing surface award for the last 10 years. Can't say much about chelsea's pitch ( Does barcelona v chelsea come to mind?) The disgrace was monumental

3. No matter how badly arsenal plays, next week, more fans would be queuing up to buy tickets the following week, meanwhile, despite the fact that when you were the premiership champion, your seats werent even full and chelsea had to consatantly beg fans to come and watch on bbc radio

4.Chelsea owner is extremely jealous of arsenal's style of play and it makes his heart bleed that chelsea can't win with style

5.Chelsea players are mercenaries who only play for the money, while Arsenal players play for the love of football

6.chelsea has one billionaire running the club, Arsenal has 2 billionaires, kronke and usmanov and a host of millionaires and other shareholders, honouring the tradition of the game and respecting the fans wishes

7. Arsenal has a history of stability in it's coaching crew for the past 10years and prior to arsene wenger, since the premiership was established in 1991, arsenal has had only 2 coaches before wenger, graham gordon and bruce rioch, i can't count how many coaches that have been fired and hired by chelsea in the last 16 years of the premiership

8. It's only chelsea that can buy a player at the age of 30, wears number 30, bought for 30 million and scores only 3 goals a season

9. It is only chelsea that taps up officials and players at it's whimps and caprices thereby violating fifa rules

10. Finally, it did not take arsenal 50 years to win it's second trophy

Pilgrim, what's this. I thought we were cool and i left this religion boards for a while and dropping in back, your still making references to me saying i signed under a different name to come back and  insult you. I guess you don't let sleeping dogs lie and you will love to exchange unpleasant banters. Even when we had our disagreements, did i ever insult you directly the way this orobo guy is taking cheap shots at you? Anyway i wont let you pull me back to engage in tirades with you. I'll gently leave this religious boards for you or better still sign off from nairaland, because i guess anybody that says something nasty to you from now one is lawyer in disguise. Have it your way and continue to make condescending remarks about me. Am done trying to be at peace with you. Watever Men Am out of these religious boards for good.

P:S: For your information, i am not yoruba and i don't speak nor understand the language. So get your facts right if you intend to dump your frustrations on me in future .

How can you slap them? Dont you know that's too mild and against the law? Instead the thread should be "Nigerian Actor/ Actress You would love to murder in cold blood in the afternoon and feel good afterwards"

Ans: Anybody who has his or her home video on Eweka road or Idumota

What do you mean by foster father?

1. His he married to your mother and he isnt your biological father?

2. He adopted you?

3.He's just your guardian taking care of you?

We need to be clear to know exactly the situation , you might be lucky, he might not neccessary be against the law for sleeping with you

God punish the girl and hin wedding! She wan use me catch trips twice abi?

1. Dump me

2. Come follow me chop rice and see the person who i de knack 4 ur back before i free you

WAKA ! SHEGE! E no go better for HER MAMA!

Rubbish!

Because she's pregnant i have to marry her. Story! all that cock and bull excuses that : " how can you impregnate her and run away" is so last year and not tenable anymore as an excuse. Did i rape the girl? Shey im body no follow me do jiggi jiggi like railway too? Women always forget that sometimes, they push the guy so hard to satisfy them during sex, that it no longer becomes love but a competition to satisfy the girl and in the process the guy would deposit NNPC inside her and 3 months later, she's crying to the boy that  " you don give me belle" " no disgrace me o! na you go marry me"

Rubbish Talk, It takes 2 to tango and if she's on heat, get a female condom or contraceptive pill or better still abstain. The moment a girl caves in to the pressures of sex from a guy, she's on her own, no silly excuse like " if i no open my leg now, you for say i be bad girl", next time sharp up!, no dulling.

And if she threatens to have the child, " born am" shey na my market go spoil abi na your own. Patapata, people go say ***ahhh! wetin you do no good o! God go judge you!*** and i'll reply "i don hear" and find another chick to marry that i love, but them go de call the girl " mamma sikira" or " iya bukiratu" at the age of 24, so the moral of this post is for the girls to sharp up and not expect any man to take responsibility for something both of you agreed to do

I have a female friend whose in a dilema now. She is engaged but not yet sure she wants to marry her fiancee. She says, he's the best thing to have happened to her in 4 years. She says he's cute, well built, a fox in bed, treats her like a queen and is not obsessive one bit about her mingling with boys or all those nightly male calls. In short, he is her own tom cruise come to life, but he has one vice that pisses her off**** He's a chain smoker*** and her parents and pastor has cautioned her about marrying a smoker. She's really worried because she loves him to death and wants to spend her life with him but the smoking thing is a major turn off for her and he's not ready to quit for no body. What can she do? Nairalanders pls help because this jamb question don de tire me for office o!

Am a sucker for old school so i have almost every known song and album from 1980 to 1999, from 2000 down till today , i have very little, too much sampling of the old timers, so i stick with my oldies

Ade actually scored 12 last season i can't believe it

@A-40

Rubbish, 12 goals in all tournaments, premiership, carling cup, champions league and F.A cup. A player that had played more than Henry and Van persie all season, what a waste!

Kanu wouldnt have made the team on merit. No space for him then

@tkb417

But friday ekpo, emeka ezeugo and nduka ugbade made the team on merit, compared to a player who just won the champions league with ajax that year and was an intergral part of the success of the ajax team?

Didn't Nigerians complain bitterly when Nduka Ugbade and Friday Ekpo, where introduced after Amuneke and Amokachi were stretchered off in the game against italy?, Talk about merit indeed! And wasn't it the last time those 2 played for Nigeria again?

@ seun

Who is Yemi Teller? A Nigerian soccer coach or what?

Tella is the Nigerian coach of the under 17 golden eaglets. The man that was *boning* through out the tournament sitting down that the commentator said his face looks like thunder

@ pilgrim

We 're cool now! No offence taken, on the contrary i did enjoy the back and forth banters. Shame it has to stop but the good news is that i have a new muppet to wind up = wordsmith, lol, Hope i can now ask for the licence to plagiarize your words like "bloviates" to use on wordsmith, haaaaaaa!

@ blacksmith ***sorry, i mean @goldsmith****sorry again, @ swordsmith*** abeg no vex, the smith thing they confuse me, ***@ wordsmith ( finally!)

calling Yaba left

I was laughing so hard when i was reading your open air auditioning for "faze kolomental" remix video, then it occured to me that you weren't auditioning  as a want to be actor but, it's a true life experience your bringing out in public.

1. You make references to *yaba left* and i had to ask someone what's yaba left? and the person told me it's a mental home in yaba, *eyah* poor child, what did they do to you when you were a guest there? , is that the reason they had to transfer you to the US for further mental checkups?, Was it really that bad, that you can't forget your excruciating time there?, What a shame! Don't worry when they transfer you back there next month when your visa expires, things would change. I promise you my friend. As soon as am done with this thread, i'll be calling the yaba local govt chairman to look into the atrocities done to you. Take heart my friend, it's going to be ok!

Yes, can i speak to the Doc?

Haaaaaaaaa! I can't laugh anymore, am falling off my chair, reading this line! So instead of keeping valuable numbers in your phone directory,  * yaba left doctors* have a special place in your heart. How long have you been communicating with him? I thought the doctors in your new mental home, were qualified enough to deal with your
Schizophrenic  delusions, that you had to place a long distant call to your personal kolo doctor in *yaba left* to help you solve your problem. I see your case is beyond the capabilities of mordern science to make you sane again. Abeg when you come back next month, try visit bar beach, your type plenty for there!

Yes, i think you have another one on your hands. What?! You can't keep him? He's a mental Harzard to them inhouse loonies? Jesus! That's a first! Never heard that before! I know dammit, i know he roleplays a lot, thinks he's a lawyer. Location? Ojuelegba underbridge with a few panti, he calls that his "Chambers", alongside the Refuse Dumb. Of course we shall proceed with extra caution. What dosage of Prozacs? WHAT??!! What do you mean a gallon and a club for extreme measures? Nobody said anything about whacking him over the head. Yes i know, he's shit in the flesh but that's not enough reason to whack him. . . . . . .well maybe enough reason. Don't forget the iron clad strait jackets Doc. Just in case, i know a trader that deals in egba tashere, comes quite handy with the kumo in subduing the mofo. Ok, doc, thanks for taking your time to listen. Have a good day

Haaaaaaaa! your freaking hilarious do you know that! Where you once a discredited actor in nollywood before they transfered you to yaba left? I can picture the scene in your one room mental hilton, dramatizing and rehearsing these lines, scratching your head, holding your shoes, thinking it's a phone and talking to your bed, while the doctors behind the windows are shaking their heads in disgust, thinking of a higher dosage of, what did you call it again? *prozacs* ( i hope i got the spelling right, i wont want to offend you for mispelling your drugs) to give you.

What a shame! Well i hope the doctors know what they are doing, giving you a computer to browse. If it's part of the mental illness program to help you get well, i'll support it. ( Too many Nigerian lunatics in the US. Anything thing to help reduce the number would be greatly appreciated )

Anyway, we'll be there next month at the airport to recieve you with an ambulance fit enough for his kolo royal loonyness. If you need any other thing before your return, please state it on this thread, so as to make your homecoming stay in *yaba left* more pleasurable this time!

hmmm!

Maybe we should also credit the all african games disaster to yaradua's good luck or

the disaster in the women african basketball tournament to yaradua's good luck or

the under 20 football tournament to his wonderful luck

Nonsense

If them lose, them go set up panel probe why baboon yansh red and if them win, them go they say na the divine wisdom and support the president or head of state give them, Rubbish

I[b] sure say yaradua no even know say, them de play under 17 until the day wey dem wan play final [/b]

You guys aren't still getting the whole gist of the matter. Whether Tella or Vogts, black or white, home based or foreign coach, the main thing is who can actually instill discipline in a team and suceed? The most successful white coach in Nigeria is westahof, because for 5 years, he had the national team under firm lock and key. He handled them so well that established players had to shelve their ego once they had a call up from him. Ask ikpeba, tijani babangida and kanu why they didnt go to the usa94 world cup. He no send them and meanwhile, they were the hottest properties in europe then.

Contrary to what people might say, Onigbide is another successful coach, because it's it disciplinary reforms of japan/korea 2002 that we are gaining today. The utakas and osazes in the national team is because of the discipline instilled that fumigated the likes of oliseh and his ilk from the national team.

Siasia also succeeded because of that same mental and physical discipline, now tella is the latest one. Now the issue is not whether he is white or black, but who can actually not kiss the ass of these players. We all know nigerian players are filled with ego and efizzi and once a coach can clip that ego in them, we would succeed.

Discipline first=technicality= success

ebos:
Pilgrim, I don’t know if I will leave you for now to avoid stirring a sleeping lion? Before I go begin hear ‘na my own I dey jeje when them no gree Pilgrim 1 rest. I get to flow with you well later on a good frame of mind. Because, if you set yourself in battle array right now – the kind of bomb you will drop will make that of Hiroshima or Nagasaki a child’s play. It will be devastating. Though, still appreciate you.

@ebos

When i tell you before say make you ignore, and let's face the original aims of this thread, you say e no good to keep silent. Make we try educate them. Educate what? People that would continue to taunt catholics till the end of time? people that would continue to tell you what your doing is wrong and you should follow theirs? No matter what you say and do, you, there would continue to be more questions than answers for them.

The more you try to offer explanations, the more they see the fallacies that you explained to them.

The more you remain civil, the more they bring out your violent side

Dont you get it ebos, they are trying to wind you up and not seek a healthy discuss on this thread. Are you an expert on theological matters? Your duty is to obey the words of God and do his bidding. You have no duty of care to debate God's words with other fellow christians. People will always take pot shots at catholics, but does it mean catholics will vanish from the planet. Catholics will always be a threat to them and it's their duty to make it extinct. So the more you exchange banters with them and you cave in to their excuses that " we are only trying to show you that you should follow the words of the scripture and not the vatican crap that it spews daily"

If i choose to ask mary as my intercessor, whose bloody business is it?

If i choose to bow down to the cruxific, whose business is it?

If i choose to say the mysteries of the rosary, whose business is it?

Did i come to their houses and force them to do it with me?

Likewise, when they are are doing their miracle crusades, how does that affect me?

when they are doing their praise worship and speaking in tongues, how does it affect the way i sleep?

How does the church behind my house that does it's nightly 5 days virgil affect me from doing my work?

We all continue to criticize and claim my denomination is better and i know the right passage of the bible better than you and i want you to be saved. Question, who beg you!!!!

The way they talk about being the wisest in scriptural matters, simply means that catholics can not get to heaven ever because according to them, we are idol worshippers. Okay i tell them bluntly " I de worship idols according to them", shoot me now! shebi Efcc of idolatory and mariolatory don enter town!

Brother men, please, i ask once again, let's go back to the origin of this thread and face it squarely. There is so much, catholics can learn from each other instead of wasting endless time helping anti catholics answer their jamb questions when no they ever get answer.

Peace y'all

@ayusman

ayusman16:
I would laff at your ignorance if u tell me Tella is better than Berti Vogts, put patrotism aside, in todays match which side was more technical? Our attack lacked cordination with the midfield, If not for god of soccer decided to be a Nigerian; the spaniard would have carried the day, they were obviously more technical in their approach to the game,

I think your a lil bit harsh in your judgement here. You talked about technicality. There is a big difference between technicality and winning mentality. Am an Arsenal fan to the blood and i can tell you that while i appreciate arsenal's technical ability, it doesn't always result in a winning mentality. The spaniards are like the south americans, beautiful ball jugglers and finesse in technicality but how many tournaments has spain won from the junior to senior level?

Agreed the boys did not have a future Mikel or Okocha in the midfield, but they chose a pattern that helped them win the cup, that is a powerful mental and physical discipline to conquer their opponets. While the spaniards dominated the midfield, our defence over shadowed their strikers. The presence of Udoh today at the back is what a club or country like arsenal or spain lacks. Your winning ability starts from the confidence your defence reposes on the team. Tella disciplined this boys and in return they disciplined themselves. The bottom line is who won not who dribbled the most.

As it regards Tella and vogts, all i would say is, that tella is not a coach but a lecturer who came to prove a point but if he continues this way with his disciplined background then in 10 years time, this would be a no contest. Vogts has only succeeded in germany as a coach of their national team and since 1996, he has been a collosal failure for every team he had managed. Do you think if any of the 4 big premiership managers where coaching the super eagles, there wont be discipline in the team? Vogts is a business man and he's interested in his salary. The only white coach that understands African football is claude le roy and his results are open to the world to see. so to me there is no comparison between the 2

@Wordsmith

Na so the ting pain you reach? So because of little' ol' Pilgrim, na so u save moni, buy 3hrs ticket for cybercafé, carry Thesaurus for one hand, kon dey talk d one wey pass ya mouth? Omo, sofri o, no go wound o, efrebor o! Wash!

Are you in a cybercafe now? Are you that poor? Internet connection at home is now very cheap. I'll advice you to start saving your cigar and gulder money now, so that by christmas, you could finally join the club of those that browse from the comfort of their bedrooms. Secondly, were the words a little bit too difficult for you to understand? I see your name is wordsmith, but your a poor imitation of what the word stands for. If you want to mix yoruba and pidgin english with your great command of english, try and put it in a different perspective to make it readable, because, it took me 5 minutes to figure out that sentence.

Ogbeni, go and sit down if you don't have anything tangible to say. Kilo n gbe ton gbin? ehen, you were caught red-handed stealing off another person's work, you kon dey yarn cock and bull. Abi na lie i lie? So, what are you hyperventilating for?

Once again, are you conversing in English or yoruba? because i cant decipher what your saying! I guess the yoruba threads are closed! can't you wait till monday when they open? Seriously you can't really be a wordsmith.

Let me be more blunt here, if you simply can't argue from the Bible, then sharrap. No long ting.

Is the bible an act of the national assembly that is meant to be debated or is it meant for you to assimilate it in your heart personally? Well thanks for exposing your self as a zealot. Is that what you do when you go to church? Argue about all the verses in the bible? well please give me an invite to your church, i love to see you, your pastor and congregation throw chairs at each other all in the attempt to know whether the forbidden fruit was either a mango, apple or agbalumo. I can already picture the name of your church. "The Great Pentecostal Bible Arguing church" , motto, " come with your chairs, guns, arrows and yoruba dictionary if you ever want to win a bible debate here!, what a shmuck!

I'm personally sick and tired of all the stupid games

What games? The games the great bible arguing church plays with you? Are you giving up that easily? If yes, sharraaap!

Claiming braggin' rights for the RCC

RCC? Really Crazy Chimpanzee or Rebels Castigating Castro? Because am finding it had to phantom what the acronym stands for? Could you be more specific next time? Your supposed to be a wordsmith not an abbreviation expert!

what the schmuck are we talking about here? The church/name alone or the doctrines that the church spreads?

When a "church" spreads it's doctrine, does the church grab you by the balls to accept it by force? What you don't like, you leave and ignore. Does the doctrine affect how you eat, go to school, Bleep your girlfriend or what? Is there a church patrol unit that arrests and forces you to accept a doctrine that doesn't augur well with you? I think your a closet RCC wannabe!, Haaaa ( excuse my pun )

Stay dere dey do siddon look like maga online them

O my God! Your a yahoo yahoo boy! I wish i had read this statement earlier on before replying you. No wonder the vague references to cybercafe and 3hours ticket earlier on? Am really disappointed in you. With all the time you spend in a cafe trying to dupe people, you still dont have any money to get connected at home. You sit in cafes all day wasting value time that you could use to get an education to help you to at least become a wordsmith someday. Was it you that sent that scam mail to my box that your family abroad is about to be deported and you need help to look for a place in ajegunle for them to settle down properly? Is that really you? It's a pleasure finally meeting you. Would you take a cheque or a cash sum of N700 to at least buy one block so as to begin the foundation laying exercise? I'll be glad to be of assistance to you. Buzz me again when when you finally get to the roof, let's say in 2034 or thereabout

Talk about being a WORDSMITH Schmuck!

i love the former intercontinental bank advert, "don't eat your future away"!, the fat man eating a bowl of almost 15 chicken laps at a sitting was extremely hilarious.

The real credit should go to coach yemi tella. The way he handled these boys from the beginning is something worthy to note. I have never seen a team in Nigeria so disciplined and i think it's because of the fear they had for him. The no nonsense coach, didn't even celebrate when we won and was still maintaining discipline to the end. E be like say for training na koboko he de use for them if them make one faulty pass or goal keeper no catch ball well. Kudos coach tella! You and siasia should team up to handle the super eagles in future. Would love to see yakubu recieving 6 strokes of the cane during training for missing a sure goal. I hear say na former lecturer? If na true, then no wonder

Seun:
The instrumentals are rubbish, though. I finally listened to the whole video and that's my conclusion.

C'mon seun, let's give credit to who it's due to. The instrumental is actually the back bone of the song, which is very very catchy and recognizable anywhere. Am not a total fan of Nigerian artists and music but when i hear something good and unique, i doff my heart for it. Dont worry the song will grow on you!

It's that's easy! If I had not read so many Catholic apologists (on the net and in books, periodicals),

@pilgrim

This was probably the only thing that caught my curiousity after reading your reply and i have to confess, this is the summary of everything you have said and i was ill prepared for this. You had a very long headstart and i just popped in to give a vague defence without research. Maybe i would have taken a whole decade out of my life to peruse the internet and plagiarise more, read the whole library of congress and search for all periodicals so i don't look intellectually lazy as it relates to the issues of the bible and the catholic bull aka vatican bull. ( not my fault honestly. I attended ile iwe meta comprehensive grammer school, school 4 mushin, the school adjacent your pastor's own and my english research teacher didn't encourage us enough, hence my history of my poor attempt at plagiarism. I just wish i attended your pastors school, school 5,  i know you had better research teachers. Teacher Okoye should be proud of him.)

So from all conclusions as  ricadelide your new found sidekick rightly stated, i have to apologize to you and gracefully accept that your the winner of this one sided debate and i wholesomely now accept you pilgrim now as my lord  or lady ( before you accuse my poor knowledge of the borrowed English language again) and saviour from now on because, honestly i don't know of any one on this planet and beyond that is so well versed in the bible apart from you and since your my new fountain of knowledge, i have no choice but to humbly drop my catholic faith and follow the church of pilgrim wherever you go! ( So no more dumb defences, no more plagiarising any of my former catholic brethen works, no more direct personal insults, no more quoting of my saviour's threads, in short no more of any thing that would enrage my new messiah any more)


Am sorry former catholic brethens for being an embarrasment to the struggle and i have been brutally bruised and nursing it as we speak because it's not easy dealing with my new found lady and saviour who has destroyed, devoured and torn to shreds every living or dead catholic apologist defence/ idol worshippers born of flesh and in spirit right from the days the days of Moses down to me. There is no need to defend the faith any more than but for me to see beyond the true light that she is actually the one we have been waiting for all our lives.

I have chosen to accept her as my Personal Lady and Saviour, because she has all the attributes of the "chosen one" such as:

1. The gift of ridicule ( I am really excited about this one if she passes it down to me because am still an apperentice)

2.The ability to know the bible cover to cover in minutes without even looking at the printed words

3. The ability to destroy everything and everyone that comes her way as long as it doesn't even have a whimper of intellegence to her or she feels threatened by it by a mile even if she is sitting down jejely without any wahala. ( I now know why they say make person leave mad man for where he they siddon jejely unless if e bite you, i no know no de o!) 

4. the ability to fan the embers of sensitive and provocative issues that are better of left in the coolers for the original authors to clarify themselves. ( catholics, we too believe sef! Shey na even thing them tell us we go believe? We be zombie ni? Anyway we thank the new messiah pilgrim for opening our eyes and na only im own we must hear! any other addition or supporters club na counterfeit.)

5. being the sole messiah of her word of faith

6. knowing everything about bull the vatican has said right from the first pope down to the future pope in 2077.

( Catholics una don come again! We go de talk say pope clement of 1765 talk this , pope sylvester of 1876 talk that, meanwhile we no go believe person wey follow Moses go school. Person wey be food prefect that time wey de send moses go fetch water for their boarding school that time! Una wan tell me say Pope of 1543, know pass our new messiah? Common let's stop that rubbish and listen to experience and old age. You know how many prophets she don survive reach now? So if she says the vatican is yaning bull, you better believe that!)

The list could go on and on, but in summary, my saviour has won and i should congratulate her and crown her the queen of all that is wise and intellectual  and beg on my knees to forgive me and make me one of her apostles. Can't you see people, she is the messiah  we have all being waiting for in a younger body! Jesus did it 2000 years ago to bring down all those who were idol worshippers and now on naira land, a new improved messiah has appeared and has given us more than concrete proof to show she's the chosen one. ( How could i have thought of worshiping, praying and bowing down to Mary, while you were around all this while, silly me), please pope and the catholic church, don't confuse me again o! i now have better offers, threads and letters to read from my new found personal lady and saviour!

I adore you pilgrim, o queen of all queens and lady of all ladies who is without an iota of sin. You are my way, the truth and the light. I shall follow no other gods apart from you from now on. I will worship, praise and glorify you from this moment on and pray to you, for you to grant me the grace to allow me into your kingdom of intelligence and wisdom. I renounce all my other faiths and beliefs and would follow only you and you alone, because you have made me see the light. ( i need no mediatrix anymore because i have found you pilgrim!)

Please blessed Pilgrim ( do you have any lesser name that i should call you? because your name sounds too powerful for a lowly subject like me to call ) to grant me just a fraction of the inherent powers of the fountain of wisdom which  you soley possess, so that i can also go and destroy other faiths that you don't believe in and any other thing that doesnt make sense to you. ( my opinions don't matter any more, it's all yours, yours and yours!!! no more vatican bull, no more mary talk! just me being your personal zombie)

Dear saviour, compromise is not an option for me when i go out to tackle other Mary worshippers because my new god ( pilgrim) is a jealous god and  i want to go further than you in destroying catholic apologists, to show you that your the one true messiah and eye opener that i have been waiting for all my life so as to show you that am worthy of a place in your esteemed kingdom. And to show how serious i am, every thread or topic that you either create or post from this moment, i'll be there with you, so as  to give you moral support, praise you and worship you. I have abandoned all i have to do and will follow you and you alone.

Thank you for making me see the light and i hope to see you in all your future threads where you would proclaim your all knowing powerful words. No more flexing of biblical intelligence with my saviour, because now that i know you more, and the great powers you possess, it would be blasphemous to speak when you speak. I'll rather spend my remaining days praise worshipping you and all that you stand for. Nothing you do is evil in my eye from now on. Your blameless,

meanwhile off topic, was Moses bia bia actually white? in boarding house, did you actually tell him to do angle ninety when he was looking at you somehow? Please do tell. You can't afford to hide this one from your fountain of knowledge. Your not that selfish, please share

Was i so crazy that i had to disturb the messiah when she was jejely sitting on her own after she had destroyed catholic apologists far far greater than me that couldnt defend the catholic church who had stood up to her from time immemorial? Shouldn't i have heeded her advice when she told me about catholic apologists that were still nursing their bruises after she had ripped their hearts out with her stoic and extremely tight water proof defence against catholicism and the vatican bull? ( shame on all of us for even thinking of attempting it to engage her majesty)

I am so sorry my new personal commander of my soul and captain of my mind, i should have heeded that earlier warning and please forgive me all my sins because you posses the power to do so and bring me to your fold, so i can follow the words of you the messiah, that has revealed herself on nairaland in a feminine form. Aren't we all a lucky bunch to have you here? Please make fun of me and mock me till eternity  O merciful one full of divine grace bestowed on only you, so that i would consider it as my healing tithe towards you so as to make me worthy to enter your kindom.

So till we meet again on this thread or on other threads my holy messiah pilgrim, i will be agressively searching for more catholic apologists to destroy to offer to you as a sacrifice so as to show my total devotion to the doctrines you preach. ( would you prefer them being headless?) I'll do anything you command. You should know better! Just say the word!

One more thing! I was supposed to go to my catholic church today for mass, but instead, i'll follow your powerful words divinely sent to me through this blessed thread and i will thus organize my personal sit at home protest and when the other catholic apologists come  looking for me and ask my why i didn't come, i'll print all your defences and hand it over to them. And when they ask why am i doing this, i'll bark back and tell them haven't they heard of You? The great knower of all that is false and true !and If not, they must be living in caves. Aint that great my saviour? I am already practicing what you preach and serving you already!

I earnestly await your spiritually filled intellectually inspired biblical words of faith which is only known to you, 2.your esteemed and humilating reply and 3. further directives on how to be a strong catholic basher  O! holy and revered catholic basher or all bashers. It would be a pleasure and extremely humbling to me, once i see one of my extremely long, unworthy, unintellectual  and windy statements above being quoted in your reply. It would show that am already in the favour of my lady and saviour eye.

Please don't forget to teach me another exotic English word. I am terribly poor in my use of semantics and lexicons hence making me a very intellectually lazy solicitor, so i am hoping to improve my grammar and ignorance since your now my new english teacher. ( I no go lie, i stabbed all my English and intellectually stimulating biblical courses in the university including but not limited to plagiarism 101 in law school, hence my poor imitation of John salza's work! Heck i would have paid more attention in school! Thanks for catching me unless i wont have been able to take you as my personal lady and saviour.) ( @ least my exam malpratice days are over, now that i know that my saviour didn't cheat once in school or giraffe right from kindergarten to her professor emeritus days in cairo in 1532 ), how blameless can my new saviour be without sin. Your the man, sorry woman!, ma bad!

Anyway, i had a list of over 500 catholic apologists i wanted to plagiarize but since you have destroyed all of them before including the bull of their children and children's children, i would have been wasting my time. Thanks for the tip that you have read all all the vatican bull before and ripped them to shreds, way to go my saviour ! Meanwhile i have a small request to ask you great one. How old are you right now? 100, 200, 500 or your still representing your pre david age of  2000 years +? because you have been doing this for a long time and only someone this great, old and wise would have such biblical knowledge and skill to destroy catholic apologists this easily, that's why i must follow you,  the most high in my eyes right now (No shame in admitting the obvious) .

I especially enjoy the word "bloviates" alot ( i havent had the time to check my dictionary but it does sound like a new disease spreading in the u.k! ,  forgive my unwaiving ignorance again, i can't help it, but am trying to learn, i swear passionately to you!) and through you, am compiling an encarta  of your famed words and parables including the yoruba quirky quips that you have used on this thread so far. ( Please be kind to show me other thesis that you wrote right from the days of Moses your junior for primary school till date. I'll greatly cherish it and later present it to the national museum for safe keeping). I intend to use it in the next Oshodi / Ajegule scrabble open competition next month. Wish me luck my new English professor emeritus genius.

off topic again, no offence, just a question. How easy was it for you to write with feathered pens on the bark of trees back then? Guess you have come a long way till the days of the internet? Who was the first idol worshipper you actually dealt with? Damn, this is a no brainner, you were there when moses broke the tablet because the isrealites were building molten images? You saw the first molten bull!, aha! no wonder you kept that phrase all these centuries to your self to bash more idol worshippers.

It's a pleasure knowing you. I'll keep in touch as always, don't worry if you don't see me online when your online, i'll be busy looking for more catholic apologist s to destroy in your name. We gotta book a date and time to be together, so i can present my sacrifice to you, tata bloviate, ( i hope i used it correctly in this sentence) 


Your's sincerely

The newly destroyed catholic apologist and new Pilgrim convert

I actually attended one of these so called pentecostal crusades along what is fast becoming pentacost road ( lagos/ibadan express road) also ( since i can't count how many of them are there again, 50, 100, 200, am losing count, probably have to ask the census board to give me a full statistics of what's going on there) I was first amazed at the hold up caused by the multitude of worshippers or devotees or, (gosh i don't know what to call them). I was there 4 almost 3 hours on the road, moving at a snail speed and carefully observing things around me. Truck load of buses shipping people in from all parts of the country, all waiting to see the great one.

My curiousity got the better of me when i finally got into the large expanse of land and saw the beautiful and expensive edifices surrounding the whole place and within a flash, i looked round again and observed the devotees ( sorry i dont know what to call you so bear with this name) looking so poor and wallowing in abject poverty. So i thought to my self that, this must be the reason people come here in their thousands. They must be dashing money and i was thankful that i came to collect my own share finally.

The music was loud and great and enough to put the organizers of the london carnival to shame. People where jumping, screaming on top of their words and speaking in languages i couldnt comprehend. I asked a fellow devotee beside me what he was saying and he said he was speaking in tongues. I pointed to the back and i asked, what of those ones? He replied, they are also speaking the same thing. Now this was beginning to arouse my curiousity and before i knew it, i realised almost 60% of the devotees where all speaking in tongues, poor me, i was left out of the tongue wagging contest. So i decided to recite my favourite rap lyric Jay-z's encore and boy did it blend with the other devotees. It amazed me how 20 minutes ago, i saw 2 guys quarreling profusiously over parking space and using venomenous words could all of a sudden be filled with the power of tongue. Must have been the quarrel! Next time am invited, i'll try and punch somebody's light out and see where the tongue speaking mystery would carry me.

Well fast forward to the main event, the star of the show! Miracle hour! I have been waiting patiently for 4 hours under the frosty nightly winds and now i was going to see the show. Gosh i wasn't disappointed. Trust me, you watch it on t.v and your like wow but real life? c'mon, a link park concert wont beat this! Where these cripples came out from astonished me. Your like one minute, there's no one there and the second minute, a ship load of cripples and lepers. Up on the stage was the revered one, all decked up looking magnificent just as if he just came out from a GQ magazine. I wondered again, how come Pastor devotee is looking like a million box and his devotees where looking so poor and crummy? His fire branding words and threats, made everyone sit up tight and reflect and i recollected my primary school days, when teacher okoye who scream at me and give me a good tongue lashing. The dramatics of pastor devotee was equally quite amusing, trust me RMD, couldn't have done a better job on stage acting out a benin play. Every 5 minutes i would see a group of people branching out in groups and forming a fire branding tongue wagging contest. It looked so much like the red indians dance, i couldn't take my eyes of it.

Well back to the star of the show, miracle hour! now these cripples with wheel chairs and the crutches were helped onto the stage and before i knew it, everyone was asked to pray for them and see the miracles of God. The swash buckling pastor devotee now performed a strange rite that i have never seen before. He brought out a white handkerchief , looked and them from afar and and blew kisses at each of them. The music was getting louder and the frantic tongue wagging was getting more desperate. Before i knew it, a man was actually holding his crutches and shouting praise the lord!!!!!! , wait aminute, , someone that was carried on stage 10 minutes ago with the help of 3 devotees and in a flash, He can do the moonwalk?, c'mon now! People where applauding and i had to applaud too, wonderful trick, my heart was racing!, please can you do it again! my mind was saying! Other cripples followed suit in becoming whole again after the blow of restoration kiss.

The next thing i thought of was bringing my aunty kate, who for the past 10+ years has been paralysed, boy if that cripple could walk, then aunty kate's own ailment is a non issue. Other people who professed they weren't born again ran to the stage to become one! the exciting thing about this part of the show was the way people fell with the slightest touch by pastor devotee. I also saw a woman being so frantic and jumping all around that she was possesed and in a jiffy, those eagle eyed body guards or ushers, immediately carried her unto the stage and before you knew it, pastor devotee delievered the greatest tongue wagging lyric and with the blow of the kiss, she was saner than yaradua. Boy i was elated, the show was too good to be true. Yemi my friend who invited me to this crusade, really did a good thing for me, i have lacked entertainment for quite a while, but this, i'll pay top dollar to watch again. After all the wowing, then came the best part! people coming on stage to tell the crusaders how wonderful the preaching was and how pastor devotee had impacted their lives and you couldn't come on stage without announcing a huge cash sum gift or expensive property to give to the pastor.

With all the millions in the organizers pocket, they still had to go around collecting tithes. Pastor devotee kept repeating the same mantra, " it's better to give than to recieve". I watched how poor people who couldn't afford a decent meal, squeeze out money to satisfy the crusade. All said and done, the final word was to come back next time and it would be grander than this. When the show had ended, i tried my best to wait for 30 minutes longer to at least catch a glimpse of my new found celebrity cripples, but just as they appeared mysteriously, they vanished mysteriously! How curious! Not even an autograph?, How rude! Stern looking mobile police men shielded the mob that wanted to see our new found healed celebrities but where disappointed. Journalists were also prevented from granting interviews to the new celebs and pastor devotee.

I went back to the park feeling very sad and again watched the crowd go back to their pre crusade attitude. Fighting for bus space, arguing and even a fight, now that was light entertainment that cheered me up . These same poor people after the whole show could only afford pure water to wash their eyes and poor on their head. What happened to the budget surplus that was just declared? I went home reflecting on my over night trip and tried to pick out the spirituality of what just happened but to no avail. I told Akeem of my experience and all he could reply was that i went there with no faith, what a croc of rubbish!

The above windy senario is what pentecostites of all denominations profess to and practice. It is their monthly or yearly ritual to organize such carnivals or parades and hood wink people in the name of God. Jesus never advertised a crusade to heal people and people he healed played a predominate role in the bible. Show me one person that has been cured on stage before and you now see him or her driving round maitama. All these show of entertainment goes to show the extent of buffonery protestants would want others to believe that this makes them the one true church. They concote estoic names for their crusades, power miracle night, the deaf will hear whispers, shaking the depths of hell, blah blah blah and covering it up that they are practicing the word of God or the word of faith. Because they are so inconsistent, they all want to grow up to have their own churches to milk more illiterates and zombies. Very soon, the ibadan/lagos express road would be a no go area, except for crusades. They all have fire branding names, mountain of fire, redeemers church, rock of God, believers love world etc and the beautiful part is when they end up criticising themselves , this one uses jaz, no no this one is filled with demons, my protestant friends, abeg tell me which one i go join, because all of you all provide the same comical entertainment which i would love to witness in my spare time again!

Like i said earlier ebo, ignoring them is still the best thing to do on this thread. How long do you want to explain the obvious? We'll keep on repeating the same thing till you get to page 500 on this thread but they will still be asking the same questions and making rude remarks about the catholic church.

If a catholic is on this thread and needs to know more on this thread, what is too hard in identifying themselves? And if new people that are curious about the catholic faith pose intelligent questions to know more, is that also a difficult thing to be civil about it. Take for example the Dr lorenzo chap, he queried the catholic church in earlier pages of this thread and you guys tried to give him an answer and still yet, he's still trying to wind you up with the same remarks about the catholic church. How long do you need to engage in a religious banter with someone that is hell bent on making fun of the catholics?

So if you think silence is a dangerous thing, we should weigh the differences and uphold the aim of this thread.

Bless ma brother!

I have carefully gone through this thread and read every single word from every commentator till the last one, but i do have some reservations about the authors of this thread. Am a full blooded catholic and remain one till i die. The aim of this post is for all catholics to be here and share experiences in the catholic doctrine and find other ways of branching out. I take exceptional anger at Oby for replying any of the rascalities thrown on this thread to diminish the actual aim of the thread. Non catholics who are supposed to come and fellowship on this thread are casting aspertations and indignant remarks and repeating the same old mantra of

1. We pray to mary

2. No where in the bible did it say mary should be a mediatrix

3. we worship idols and bow to them

4. we believe in purgatory which is non existent

5. blah blah blah

It's beginning to sound like a broken record and the more Oby and ebo continue to defend the faith, the more we probably acceed to their demands and follow their doctrines or whatever they are trying to do on this thread.

Remember it's our fellowship to help each other understand the doctrine more and not engage in endless debates with people who for the next 2 million years will still be asking you the same questions despite your concrete defences. Remember the bible said " they will be like roaring lions roaming the earth looking for who to devour". Even if we switch to another thread to protect our sanctity, they will still follow you to make fun, mock you, provoke you and claim they want answers to their questions and ask you the same old mantra.

So what do you do? You ignore! And the more they see that this thread is basically dealing with catholic issues that affects catholics alone, quitely, they will leave and search for other threads to show their superior knowledge of the bible which they believe is bestowed only upon them to save souls that we supposedly dim witted catholics with wools in our eyes can't comprehend. So please Oby and Ebo, keep up the good work and let's face the thread squarely.

Once again, no matter how your provoked into answering their provocating questions, remember the aim of this thread and if need be, transfer the defence to another thread that would be suitably apt for logical reasoning.

So going back to your original question Oby, i just recently joined the st. rita fellowish group and so far so good, a lot of good stuffs has been happening. Hope to hear more from you and Ebo and a host of other catholics and let this original conversation flow.

Remember the magic word IGNORE!

YOUR BOTH BLESSED AND MAY THE PEACE OF THE LORD BE WITH YOU. AMEN!

eyah, love can be a bitch atimes and people do crazy things. Anyway, i dont think it's because of love that he killed the chick. I think it's his Ego that was at stake. Sometimes people equate love and infatuation to mean the same thing. If he really loved d chick, he won't have killed her but brood for days or months and hope she changes her mind. But infatuation punctures your ego and it's most prevalent in men who have a strong hold on women and are extremely jealous and possesive.

Legally, he hasn't furnished any ingrident to show that the insanity clause would come to his aid or the rules of provocation would help him. This is a clear case of murder especially with his widely publicized confessional statement and the only thing that can save him from the hangman's noose is if he is granted a perogative of mercy by the president or governor, unless he's bleeped. The only positive thing for him is that the trial might take up to 7years or more, so he still has time to reflect on his actions and probably beg for forgiveness morally