₦airaland Forum

PastorOluT, RockMaxi, awaiting your responses.

Vinx4Christ: By their fruit u shall know them

When they make comments like this you know the last statement got them thinking.

PastorOluT: Let me continue to oblige u for the time being. Now when He said if they eat from the tree they would surely die, what kind of death was He talking about? And why didn't they die when they ate the fruit?

Ur example isn't quite the same, there was no surprise whatsoever 'cos God earlier told them about the tree. Could u be surprised for u know already?

Am actually waiting for you to tell me that Death to Adam and Eve was a good thing.
Death could be physical or spiritual isn't it so biblically? Again i ask, is death good or evil?
Yes, its just an example. You have also been told that all you will do will be worshipping.

The surprise didn't pertain to Adam and Eve. Its to the Israelites and to you now.
As for surprises; Rev 2:7 and Rev 22 say there is a Tree of life of which they will eat and from whose leaves they would obtain healing. What do they need healing from in heaven? Are you surprised?

RockMaxi: You are right bro, but if you are in a quiz competition, you don't win unless you pass the questions. When David was anointed to replace Saul, he likely did not know he will be fighting battles 13years after. This further tells you that those pitfalls you are scared of are the refining fire that brings out the gold in you. The quality of Gold is how much of dross left or taken out of it. Christianity is not butter and bread alone. Finally I will believe a God that promises me heaven than to believe a god that will give me this world and take heaven from me.

Hmm, so in your heaven you should prepare for more "refining fire".
You will observe that the issue here is the Half Truths, Deceptive and Bogus Promises of Paradise in the bible. Heaven cannot be different.
Does it mean you believe in a God and another god?

PastorOluT: Don't u see that not knowing the scriptures, I really don't know where u got the idea of God planting an evil tree in the garden? The bible only said God planted two trees in the garden, the tree of life n the tree of the knowledge of good n evil (mind u this true is not evil, it only posses the power of enlightenment, making one deferentiate between evil n good).

See, when Adam was created he was innocent, not knowing anything aside from God. God created two trees in the garden that has the enablement to enlighten him, one would do according to the spirit which God intended, while the other would also bt according to the flesh which is not His intention (reason He warned him not to eat from that tree). So what was done was like a test, God even made it easier for him by warning him against the tree of the knowledge of good n evil, while the tree of life God dint keep him from it 'cos he wanted him to eat that and live forever perfected, bt as it where he failed the test so the reason for all these that followed.

Time n space would not permit me, bt u can read my threads on the tree of life n the tree of the knowledge of good n evil.

I think you need to study the bible more.
Now, Gen 2:17 KJV says "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely DIE.
Its very clear that the tree causes DEATH. Is that good or Evil?
Saying the tree was not Evil is like saying that GIVING CIGARETTE TO SOMEONE ISN'T EVIL BUT SMOKING IT IS. Is it a souvenir?
I put it to you that you should prepare for another EVIL tree and some pitfalls there.

10 Classes who believe the Bible as Truth.

1. Those who were told so from childhood.
2. Those who listen to people who also listen to other people.
3. Those who are lazy to research anything.
4. Those who believe that questioning religious belief is heresy.
5. Those who fear everything not understood and call it spiritual.
6. Those who believe that their failures are as a result of a being called Satan.
7. Those Resistant to change.
8. Those who Refuse concrete evidence with irrefutable proof.
9.Those who fear a place they call Hell fire.
10. Those who ignore the flaws therein but can see the flaws in other books.

PastorOluT: And ur point exactly, n did u get my point?

*Edited*

Note, just as Alexleo said. Heaven is for the redeemed (those that have been saved from the corruption in the world, so my point), so there is no way no way for surprises. Better still, the surprises would be better things even which our minds can not comprehend the goodies, no more struggle, pain or inndicisiveness 'cos the old form of things would have passed away.

NB This is the point that those that would be worthy of Heaven would be the only one to know, while those not would never find out whatsoever.

Anyone who has followed the stories of promises in the bible will see a trend of pitfalls and surprises.
Only someone who never learns from biblical antecedents will take the story of heaven seriously.

Now, when God created Eden, wasn't it said to be perfect? How come there was an Evil tree in a perfect place.
For your own good, be prepared for another round of disappointments.

alexleo: Friend, those people disobeyed God and that altered the plan. Three days journey turned to 40 years because of their disobedience. God always told them that if they obeyed him they enjoy and if they don't, they suffer. The cases you are seeing in the bible are a cases of those who are following God and learning his ways(with all the mistakes and correction).

The one of heaven is a case of those who have been redeemed and has followed God successfuly by his grace in their life time and now they are receiving their eternal reward(note the word eternal).

The two scenarios are not the same.

Let me still repeat this-

Again, God will never allow anything that will rubbish his sacrifice for our redemption. If there would be such a thing then God wouldn't have needed to make this greatest sacrifice. Even Jesus wouldn't have accepted it. The cross is our solid hope.

You seem not to get it! Where is the Milk and Honey?
When Abram was promised an heir and inheritance of the earth, he wasn't told he wouldn't even see his grand children. He didn't know he would even painfully have to cut his manhood.
No blessing or provision of God came without a condition and a pitfall. Heaven may not be any different.
Isn't it still humans that will be there? Why cant there be another forbidden tree to eat from?

Segadem: I'm very sure what u read is not Bible.

Then you haven't read the bible.

Mynd44: He is.

Look at it this way, God is not fair but he is just.

If he is not fair how can he be just?
Can unfairness be justified?

alexleo: God has told us that there shall be no sorrow, pain death, tears etc in heaven and that it is FOREVER. His promises to us about heaven are eternal as he said it. What you are thinking is different

The Israelites were told that the Promised land was flowing with Milk and Honey. Have they found them?

PastorOluT: Smile, unfortunately with this kind of thought u might never find out

Really?
Some people really never learn!

Op, without light would you observe that you had eyes? NO!
Without eyes would you know there was light?
However, concerning evolution, since life forms needed light for photosynthesis, it should be light.

When Adam was created and put in the suposedly heavenly Eden, no one told him there would be an EVIL tree in this paradise.
When the Israelites were led out of Egypt they were not told they would FIGHT their way to Canaan.
The Israelites were told that the promised land was flowing with Milk and Honey. Today they are still looking for the Milk and Honey!

The new testament says "come unto me all ye who are heavily laden and i'll give you rest". And then later says "take up your cross and follow me"-no rest.

It also says "seek ye first the kingdom of God and all other things shall be added to you". Today christians are paying tithes and sowing seed for those things to be added.
Has it crossed your mind that the biblical God may be hiding something again in heaven as usual?
Don't you think there may be another Evil tree there, afterall He loves testing people?
Your thoughts...

TellBlazer: You will make a vary terrible teacher!" The big bang theory did not say life started with a bang of two objects"then what did it say?? Mind you I never called nobody a fool Spalms 14,1 did so direct ur anger there.pls don't quote me again cos you hv lost it bye.

Am actually good at educating people but not those insultive ones who are resistant to learning. Go and read books pls!
Read good books on the Cosmos, watch science documentaries on Big Bang Theory.
Remember, if you keep quoting your bible in order to call people f**ls, the same bible says you will go to hell.

Bvsteph: *sigh* U guys still didn't answer the question Was really hoping someone would help me out.....pls

I have told you what answer there is.
Since you have made up your mind to believe your bible, ignoring all its flaws, you will never get an answer.

TellBlazer: No the wonders of nature I meant are wind,rivers,fire, D sky,even humanbeings also those one you mentioned.But I want to let you know that the Bible which I belive in called them fools Spalms 14,1.The big bang Theory proposes that the world start from a bang of two objects,if there is any other,I don't know. So if you believe you created yourself,you are a complete slowpoke and a pray to all does misfortune like volcano etc you quoted.

You see why you need to be reading wide!
Fire, River, Volcano et al are surplus in other uninhabitable planets of space. There is nothing beautiful or special about them, its all about perception.
You are going to hell for calling someone a fool! Read your bible; Matt 5:22.
Again, see your understanding of the Big Bang Theory! Please Read more often. STOP listening to people that listen to other people without reading for themselves.
As far as i can think, its even xtians and religious believers that mostly fall victim to disasters. Do you know how many xtians wait on their God for help that never comes. How many have died in the presence of their God in churches by Boko haram?
Please Big Bang Theory doesn't say life started with a bang by two objects.

TellBlazer: Am not among those dumb fools who say that they is no God,after seeing the wonders of nature and functions of different human body parts stil believe it all started with just a bang.But some times,some questions need to be asked.Were did sin orginate frm b4 it was found in satan?why did God allow sin to be some were luking around?kudos to op.

See how you throw caution to the wind just because of your belief, calling those who don't believe "f**ls". How are you better than a fundamentalist?
Now, what wonders? You mean like earthquakes, volcanoes or tsunanis or disease pathogens everywhere?
Problem i have with some folks is their aversion for research and knowledge.
You heard about the Big bang Theory, without even researching into what it proposes yet you just conclude that your belief is the truth.
Anyway, op, this your question just summerizes the point that the concept of God is Man-made.

LOVE

Since death is not evil, why fear it?

Since the Gods are too many, beliefs are too many and Religions are too many, the only safe path is not to believe any.
At least you wouldn't have worshipped the enemy of the true God (if he exists) in error.

Lex11: ---
Read my response "very well" because You miss my point(s) entirely!

With re: to the "loot", everything you see and don't see belongs to GOD! - "The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods." - Psalm 24:1-2

"I will take no bullock out of thy house, nor he goats out of thy folds. For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine." - Psalm 50:9-11.. etc.

With re: to Jephthah's sacrifice - Is The Lord GOD Almighty somehow required/compelled to send "a goat instead?" By who... you?

**********

"O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise. For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." - Psalm 51:15-17

Your attempt at defending your God is at best weak.
He owns everything yet he requires sacrefices.
He doesn't require sacrifices; they are just illustrations, yet you also said that Jesus was sacrificed!
Now, If i vow to your God to do evil and he makes the conditions fit, am i bound to do that evil just to satisfy your God?
You see why an Atheist shreds you guys to pieces.

You mean we should become delusional for a while?

MizMyColi: Thanks...... and Yes, I am living my life, its been awesome. There's been a few hiccups though, but I'd live this life again and an even better one, if given the chance.

Hiccups? Namely.

Apatheist: A little more what?

Enlightening.

Apatheist: Missy is still a christian-- although a very liberal and progressive one.
I think she's a closet agnostic

Really? Then you need to do little more...hahaha.

MizMyColi: “Don’t use time and words carelessly – neither can be retrieved.” - Lecrae

True.
Don't worry about those 17 points, you'll get over them all, believe me.
Come to think of it, you now know both worlds!
From your previous posts, you are an intelligent person so the replies to some questions will come naturally.
As for No. 6, Detox isn't easy.
No. 11 is simply because of No. 6.
No. 12 is as a result of fear of rejection, i.e No. 7.
No. 14 is a NO! Keep studying the bible to know more and discover more evidence for yourself. Personally, there is no part of the bible i havn't read so can't be misled.
No. 15 Sure, people like Apatheist have been awesome!
NOW START LIVING YOUR LIFE!

One more reason not to take the bible too seriously.
Those that started this BELIEF SYSTEM have since abandoned it, realising its mortality.

I think the Atheist is generally just misunderstood, pitied and taken as unserious but not hated. Just listen to or read comments that border on atheism, you'll know that some Religious people are willing to discourse with the Atheist.
However, the Gay is actually hated.

Hmm, instead of "woman right activism", women should be teaching themselves Proper SELF ESTEEM.

Apatheist: Ever hear of the word sarcasm?

No. Not at all. Is it a french word?

The essence of this thread was to show the futile, selfish and unthinking pride that pervades religious thought and ideology when faithfuls and adherents all claim to own the ONLY TRUE GOD.

Martian, malvisguy212, Apatheist, qstar, plaetton, UrbanMystique, onetrack;

This was the attitude called to question by this thread yet you guys have proved not to be any different...yes, from those you criticise as bigots. Lol