₦airaland Forum

Mr_Anony: If you wouldn't mind could you tell us exactly what it means to be born again. how you got born again and how you came to backslide

Please, look at my lastest thread

https://www.nairaland.com/936542/why-it-sweet-bash-religion

Mr_Anony: Well logicboy I think you can guess where this is headed but I'll continue anyway. I'll ask a series of questions, please humor me by answering honestly The aim is not to corner you. Coming back to the issue, If you believe that some people are good, then it follows that some people would be evil. It also suggests that there will be good societies as well as societies that are bad.
Hence is personal/societal evaluation an authentic indicator of good and evil since nearly everyone will justify themselves no matter what they did?
I put it to you that for you to be good, you need a judge apart from yourself who is himself faultless to justify you. Does this make logical sense to you?

Yes good and bad is very subjective.

As human beings, we have evolved and learnt from our past mistakes. We have also learnt from cultures around the world to compare with our cultures. We are getting better in defining good and bad!


There is no absolute good and bad

I have been on Nairaland non-stop this whole week bashing religion.

I have not shaved or left my house in a whole 5 days! (I'm on holiday). Pizza and chinese takeaways have given me constipation

I havent even touched my videogames or my girlfriend in a week.

[size=18pt]
What is it that makes me feel good to bash religion? I have been bashing muslims and christians in both sections daily and there is some satisfaction whenever I derail certain threads.[/size]


https://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/286/870/cf7.jpg

tbaba1234: Widely assumed?? Why can you think using your name? Hebrew was not even a language at the time of Abraham.

You just got caught lying

1)No one knows for exact the language that Abraham spoke. It could have been Hebrew, Aramaic, Summerian, etc. It is natural to assume that Abraham spoke Hebrew due to the Jewish texts that relate to him. Arabic did not exist during Abraham's time

2) Hebrew langauage was in existence during Abraham's time. Hebrew is as old as Aramaic. ~You fail again

tbaba1234: There is even uncertainty as to whether Moses who came several years after Abraham spoke hebrew....

Abraham is the father of the two nations: the Arabs and the Jews from his sons Ismail and Isaac.... Arabic, aramaic and hebrew have very similar roots so there must have spoken some kind of unified language spoken...

The Arabs knew about ibrahim and Ismail even before the prophetic revelations because they recognised him as their father.

The dates of revelations are unimportant if there are revelation:: So whether the Quran is revealed in the year 2000... As muslims we are thoroughly convinced that the Qur'an is revelation.

You come up with silly arguments like Abraham spoke hebrew.... worse still you repeat it....

Islam means Submission to God literally:

Did Abraham submit his will to God? If he did, he was one of those who submitted (Muslim).... So anyone whether in africa whereever they lived that submitted their will to God without ascribing partners are Muslims. Simple..

Remove the cobwebs from your brain and reason::

1) By your logic, agnostics are muslims? submitting to the will of God does not make you muslim. It only makes you a religious person.

2)Please, what is silly about assuming that Abraham spoke Hebrew? A language that existed during his time and the language of his immediate descendants

3) Aramaic is more related to Hebrew than Arabic both in age and roots

4)The Koran was written about 600 AD and so it's has little reliability on stories about Abraham. Christianity has more reliabiltiy than Islam on Abraham

omoghana22: i think the athest boy is making lot of sense here. religion has blind soo many people that even if they see the truth they will not talk. i was born a christian but i think Christianity is a disgraced to humanity. on my research i found out that no religion is bad; since they are all made to culture us while we are growing. God himself in heaven will appreciate soo much that we do things without calling him since he has rendered the powers to us. African are the most religious people on this earth with toy brain. I wish african will go back to thier root to stop serving white man's God. Before the islamic and Christianity invasion to africa, there were lot of discipline; nowadays, there discipline are no longer there. the questiong is; did this 2 religion come to africa for things to get better or bad?

Thank you very much!

seguun: 1) Some dreams are actually the manifestation of our imagination in reality which our brain dramatises to us when we sleep.
The real or good dream (in islamic term) is the one that informs the dreamer of what to come in future. sometimes this type of dream comes true exactly as it is seen, sometimes it comes figuratively. Now, I don't expect you to believe me, either you believe or not it doesn't stop the reality.
2) The quran been the book of signs talks about the "big bang";
"Do not the Unbelievers see that the
heavens and the earth were joined
together (as one unit of creation),
BEFORE WE CLOVE THEM ASUNDER?
We made from water every living
thing. Will they not then believe? (The Noble Quran, 21:30)"
Also the scientists talk about the universe EXPANDING;; "the universe be consisted of compact ball
of hydrogen -- protons, neutrons,
electrons, and their anti-particles --
plus radiation. There were not
differentiated planets, stars, suns,
galaxies. Five billion years ago, the
compact hydrogen soup blasted apart
with huge force, matter was hurled in
all directions, and the universe
doubled in size. This EXPANSION of
the universe is still going
on." [taken from "Ask Yahoo" web site
at http://ask.yahoo.com/
ask/20001027.html].
Again the quran is correct on this when it says; "And the firmament, We constructed
with power and skill and verily We
are EXPANDING it. (The Noble Quran,
51:47)". There are still more if you ask it shall be supplied.
I think you had it enough from davidylan concerning the issue of evolution.
3) For the fact that supernatural belief is as old as human being himself, the fact that the population of the atheists is infinitesimal compare to that of the religious...Then the burden of proof (that there is no God) lies on those who are against the popular and the oldest view.
Starvation, disease, war and any other calamity doesn't prove that there is no Allah. I advice you to study the "99 names of Allah" for better understanding.

1) Dreams are just dreams. They have no effect on real life. If your 4 year old son has a nightmare, would you start asking him about the dream to interpret it?

2) Evolution is a strong scientific theory. Only brainwashed creationists fight against it. There should be no debate about evolution. Davidylan lost the argument on evolution. There is enough evidence for it and I showed him. He could only resort to strawmen.

Evolution destroys any notion that we human beings were created.

Have you ever wondered why your Allah never left the Middle East or North Africa? Because it was people from the same place with no knowledge of the Americas or East Asia that made him up

The Koran is not scientific. Does it offer any cure to diseases? Does it put forward any calculations?


3)Allah does not exist. If he did, he is not just. Have you ever seen a baby die of starvation? Whose child deserves that fate? Do you know what Arab slaves in the past suffered? Do you know what it is to be castrated like an animal? Who deserves the fate of a slave? Why are you not a suffering slave? Does Allah love you more than other muslims or non-muslims? What of muslims that have lost their arms and eyesight to suicide bombers? What kind of fate is that? Deos anyone deserve that fate?

Mr_Anony: ........And by the way logiboy you still have not answered my question.

Okay, you have cornered me.


I am good based on my personal evaluation and societal evaluation

buzugee: knowing damn well that the lord is a man of war ( exodus 15 vs 3 ) and if you are off the world you are against him ( 1 john 2 vs 15 ) and if you are against him he will be all over you like stink on doodoo with plagues, pestilences, diseases, tribulations, trials, troubles, etc etc ( 2 esdras 16 vs 19 )( Deuteronomy 28 vs 15-68 )( hosea 5 vs 15 )( isaiah 26 vs 16 )

i guess the question is, are they just extremely brave people or are they just batshit crazy ?

You say God is love and is also a man of war. Is that not Batshit crazy?

maclatunji: The atheist is desperate to prove his position as valid when he holds no positive position at all. Like I said earlier, Islam is not limited to any particular language. Hence, whatever language Abraham spoke as long as he submitted to God's will and we know he did- he was a Muslim.

God created all languages and he decided to reveal the scriptures in whatever languages he chose. Somebody says the story of Islam is about the history of the Arabs- funny. Why? There were many non-arabs that became Muslims before Arabs did. Amongst them are Salman whom you have tried to slander and. Bilal.

Yet again, they said Jews call God different names like Jehovah and Yahweh. Well, God is not Arabic but we Muslim don't have a problem calling our creator that within the English language. I don't mind calling my creator Olohun in Yoruba. These arguments are silly- your disbelief does not add or decrease anything to/from us. It is up to you to choose the path that you want- we have chosen ours.

Islam is limited to Arabic.

What is the original language of the Koran?

tbaba1234: Abraham spoke hebrew?? what ignorance the jews have no claim to abraham either because he was NOT a jew.

O People of the Scripture, why do you argue about Abraham while the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed until after him? Then will you not reason. Here you are – those who have argued about that of which you have [some] knowledge, but why do you argue about that of which you have no knowledge? And God knows, while you know not. Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to God]. And he was not of the polytheists

(surah 3 65-67)

It is is widely asumed that Abraham spoke Hebrew. he other possibilities are Armaic or Assyrian. One thing is for sure- Abraham never spoke Arabic.

Your Koran is false. Islam has no claim whatsoever to Abraham. Abraham never mentioned Allah. Abraham might have not been a Jew but most of what we know about Abraham comes from the torah, hebrew bible and greek Septuagint.

Arabic language was never spoken by Abraham. The Koran was written around 600AD, the Torah has its origins back to 450BCE. You lose

maclatunji: ^Christians will deny that. We celebrate the exact event that involved Abraham and Ishmael (AS). We have not changed anything. The comparison you made shows desperation, give yourself a break! Muslim men are circumcised and evidence exists from the Qur'an that Abraham was ordered to do so and we follow from there as our Prophet also did. You enjoy disbelief, no amount of facts will help you if you have decided to ignore the truth.

Circumcision is practiced in Islam but not compulsory. In Judaism, it is compulsory. You fail

Are you saying that Jews are lying about Abraham or that muslims have more claim to Abraham than Judaism? You fail

Why is the Koran in Arabic while Abraham spoke Hebrew (A Jewish Language)?


Muslims have no claim to Abraham, Moses or Jesus, none of them spoke Arabic and none of them talked about Allah. None of them did Hajj and none of them were for banning alcohol.

jmoore: write it in your own "holy book of atheist"

Come on, you can do better.

This is an epic incest story!!!

Madness!

LagosShia: you should care because you have now being beaten twice with the hadiths you presented-two different explanation have being put forth.



we are not obliged to follow those translations written by fallible men most of whom are not scholars in Islam in the sense of the word.quite a number scholars of the highest eminence in Islam (both Shia and Sunni) have offered other meanings than "beat".

Lol....As I said, I'm a Koranist. The only reason that I put up the Hadith was to show you that not all hadiths are against wife beating. I couldnt care less if the Hadiths were fake. I dont read hadiths.


Show me the translations that offer other meanings. have shown you three that say "beat". You lose

jmoore: boy , why must you resort to this every time? How is a product made attributed to the fact that one does not believe in God?

You use products made by atheists and yet you believe that they are fools. Is that not the ultimate height of sheer arrogance and foolishness?

italo: You still clearly don't see the difference between 'BELIEVING logicboy is a fool' and 'CALLING logicboy a fool.'

Sorry about that, but nairaland is hardly the place to learn basic English.

As for your 'goods and service' rant; I'll just leave you to re-read what you typed. See how much sense it makes?

No answer deserved!

Believing someone is a fool is much worse. You dug yourself in a deeper hole!!

Calling someone a fool can be out of only anger. But to believe it is far worse as it is deep seated in your mind.

Thank you for showing how false you and your religion are. You religion tells you to believe that all atheists are fools and you believe!

As for the goods and service, you have no point and that's why you're blank

maclatunji: ^The biggest festival in Islam, Eid-ul-Adha is based on the life of Abraham and his son Ishmael (AS). We follow them because they were Muslims. Abraham was the grandfather of Jacob the father of the Jews. So, if their Great grandfather was a Muslim, does it shock you that his descendants who followed the true religion of Abraham (Islam) are also classified as Muslims?

You are handicapped my friend, no matter where you turn to for inspiration, your arguments will be defeated. If we keep quiet, it is because we cannot continually babysit you, not because you have valid points against us.

Who cares about festivals? Christmas is celebrated because of the birth of Jesus worldwide. However, it was stolen from pagan traditions. Festivals are based on myths and Legends.


Abraham spoke hebrew. Tell me why the Koran is in Arabic? Also, if Abraham was a muslim, tell me why circumcision is not compulsory in islam. Why is compulsory in Judaism?





Abraham was more likely to be a Jew and so, you are talking nonsense.

rastamouse: How was that necessary? If you don't believe in tithe, stop paying it and let those who believe in it pay.

@ OP, thank you very much. We should all be the watchmen on the wall, watching each other's back!

rastamouse, so you are part of the tithe preachers?

italo: To THINK that YOU are a FOOL doesn't mean I am CALLING YOU a FOOL. Common! Even a miserable "soulless homo sapien" with any atom of logic in his brain should be able to spot the difference!

...And nobody provides me with goods with my providing them money.

If you believe Psalm 14;1, then you are calling all atheists fools. I dont blame you; as a brainwashed christian, you can not see the simple connection. Your bible is a load of rubbish.


Psalm 14:1
King James Version (KJV)
14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good


As for goods and service;

1) You can not live without atheists products. Whether you pay for them or not is irrelevant. Why not avoid them altogehter?
2) Even the money you use to pruchase is printed with machines made from atheist china

vedaxcool: This child is heart broken, go play with your piggy toy, that picture will go places, having lost an argument I advised u to have some rest or get a more intelligent atheist who knows the ropes of sane discourse, this two major recommendation were rebuffed rather u rushed to start posting picture, well I thought we were cracking jokes I decided to bring my own picture, u rush again to bolster u already battered ego and started arguing with pictures, again being an easy going guy I tried giving a third advice go play with you piggy toy instead u again rebuffed my hands of kindness, I don't know what else I should say just go play with your piggy toy, it will aid ur recover

I admit it! You are the best troll that I have met so far! You keep coming back no matter the debunking you receive!

Keep trolling since you have nothing useful to say. Oh, please continue with the insults! Dont stop now, you have already shown that you have no filter!


[img]http://www.troll.me/images/obv/seriously-bro-troll-harder-thumb.jpg[/img]

Ayomivic: Why did you forget to metion logicboy? Put his name there sharp sharp pls.Don't let his charm work on you.

You scared of me?

maclatunji: Who says all Muslims speak Arabic. The most basic definition of Islam is: Total Submission to the will of God.
This definition does not say anything about any language- does it?



Of course, you are bewildered because you are ignorant and think yourself wise. When you see superior knowledge, you will get confused. So, you are so slow that you cannot distinguish between ethnicity and religion. Yes, Jesus (AS) was a Jew (ethnicity) but he was a Muslim (Islam was his religion, same for the other Prophets).

So simple but difficult for slow people to comprehend.

You must be joking. So you believe that Jews practiced islam? Moses or Abraham or Jesus were muslims? Jews in the Roman empire practiced islam when it is historical fact they practised Judaism, christiaity and other cult relgions but never Islam?

Historical fact; Islam had nothing to do with Nazareth until the first century.

Jesus never spoke Arabic. Why was the Koran then written in Arabic? Jesus was Jewish, both in ethnicity and religion.

Judaism was practiced

Ayomivic: You coment on the last paragraph of my post.What i wrote is inside your post you asked me to coment on.Read that your post carefully, you will see mine there paragraph by paragrgph. I will like to hear from you after reading it.

Okay

Concerning evolution and other things you made metion here,every human being found them self on earth.When you are a baby you can explain these things you are saying now.That changes of your from baby to adult you are now is beyond your knowledge and that of your parent and that growth you can not stop it or add to it. That scientists or medial personnel become what they are when they fully reach the stage of adult.It was then that they are looking and examing what make their body function.Here, there is wisdom

On the issue of internet of a thing and other worldly materials thing God is not behinde the most of those thing. It is just like a room own by somebody and another person comes to beautify it to confuse people and claim ownership. Christians must be very careful of how they use all worldly things include internet. God is telling us indirectly that this is not kind of world he wishs for us,we are here to work for where he wishes for us.In this, there is wisdom

The first paragraph in your quote makes no sense. We can explain many things about human life through science. We can explain human growth from baby to adult without god pr the bible. Human beings were not created, we evolved from other animals.


The second paragraph makes no sense either. Are you sayi that the internet is evil? Why are you using it? Look, without science, you wouldnt have medicines or aeroplanes. God and the bible are quite useless today or otherwise, we would still be burning witches.

-Bigotry against women;

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
King James Version (KJV)
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church

But you aware that bible says husband and wife are one and that husband is the head of family. What will it look like if you are been control or pointed with accuse finger by some who is not up to your wife?There is wisdom here too.

There is no wisdom in saying that women should be quiet in churches. Very stupid.

What bible is saying here is that, we should be happy in whatever position we found our a servant should not behave like master, respect anybody that is older than you.Don't call yourself what you are not.It is simple as that.There are wisdom in the Bible.

This is the same stupidity that gave the European Christians to be satisfied with enslaving West Africans. Slaves should be content in being slaves.

Ayomivic: You coment on the last paragraph of my post.What i wrote is inside your post you asked me to coment on.Read that your post carefully, you will see mine there paragraph by paragrgph. I will like to hear from you after reading it.

Thank you, I didnt see that. Please await my rebuttal

ProPastorChris: @ logicboy
if depression is really anything to worry about in this country then why are you still around?


and you are from where? see this one o


who says it doesn't exist? when you read make sure you put your brains to work.


what?


then what are you waiting for?


now you have made yourself a judge and mind reader abi? such a confused dude you must be.

Sorry- I meant to write "for the weak".


Anyways, we can all understand what Omopastor wrote about depression- he said that depression is for spoilt brats.

Please, do not just defend Omopastor because he is a fellow christain. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Ayomivic: No one is powerful as our God, take it or not. Nobody can change that.Learn from him for there is wisdom in his words.[color=#770077][/color]

What pitiful reply to my comment

OmoPastor: since when did depression become mentionable in this country?

the volume of problems that besiege one in this country can never leave you room to entertain depression.

depression is for those who have everything made ready for them i.e. spoilt brats.

This is the stupidity of many Nigerian people. A scientifically proven illness- clinical depression exists but due to their willful ignorance and strong-head to remain in the suffer and smile culture in Nigeria, they say it is for the week.

Many people have committed suicide or murder in Nigeria due to depression and frustration with their lives. People like Omopastor would ignore the motives for those suicides and murders by just chalking it up to "they were sinners or agents of the devil"

vedaxcool: Still debunking the picture? I see the picture is hurting u a lot , should I take it down? I mean u lost the first round and now u are hustling seriously to win the picture round, but from all indication u are again loosing the picture round hence ur renewed labor in debunking a hilarious picture, I can't stop laughing anytime I see it, why won't u heed my advice and play with ur piggy toy or is it now haram in atheism? Lol

You know why I keep answering you? I want to have a full page of your trolling and insults and so that whenever any of your muslim brothers on nairaland say that atheists are trolls/abusive/argue stupidly, I can always point to you as an example of hypocrisy.

Also, why are you claiming that you won any argument? You lost the arguments on 3 basic facts-

1) millions of muslim women reject polygamy,
2) blasphemy laws have nothing to do with holocaust denial. Holocaust denial is racist
3) Polygamy has neative effects on women, especially the first wives.



Btw, why did you stop calling me "Olodo" and "pooboy". Why did you stop the insults? Were you ashamed that I called you out on your behaviour that is not welcomed in the Koran?

OLAADEGBU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPCcHD8daO8

It will be better for you to learn what it means to be a Christian by watching this videoclip.

Lol....you use Benny Hinn to explain christianity? A man who has made false prophecies about homosexuals and Fidel Castro? A man who sent mails asking for donations to buy private Jets?

tbaba1234: Well, that is not the Islamic position:

Islam basically means to submit and surrender. those who submit and surrender to the will of God are called Muslims. Jesus, Moses, Salih, Abraham all submitted to the will of the creator and were therefore muslims. Jesus did not come with a religion called christianity (from christ) and moses did not come with a religion called Judaism (from judah). They both came with the message of obedience to a creator...

Now, these messengers were given revelation and knowledge they couldn't have possibly known otherwise. The Quran is one of such revelations. So whilst the prophet couldn't have known about some of these people. It was revealed to him by the master/owner of the heavens and the earth.

As regards plagarisation,
1. the bible was not translated into Arabic throughout the time of the prophet.
2. There is no way the prophet could have obtained that kind of knowledge, since there were very few christians in mecca and medina.
3. Religious books for christians was limited to the priest/monks (there were no printing press). The only person in mecca was Waraqa who died within a few days after the 23 year revelation started. The prophet only met him twice in his life.
3. There are no valid (or reasonable) claims of any one teaching him...
4, He was unlettered (could not read/write), The Quran makes that clear

So where did he plagarise from? You will have to provide evidence to make that kind of claim..
.
The Quran also tells the prophet that he was oblivious of these stories:

That is from the news of the unseen which We reveal to you, [O Muhammad]. And you were not with them when they cast their pens as to which of them should be responsible for Mary. Nor were you with them when they disputed. (Surah 3:44)

And you, [O Muhammad], were not on the western side [of the mount] when We revealed to Moses the command, and you were not among the witnesses
[to that]. (Surah 28:44)

The news is from the unseen....

Moses was a Jew. Jesus was a Jew but Jesus brought about a reformation of judaism and that is why we have christianity.

I wont arue much as Majaze has destroyed your argument. Kudos Majaze

maclatunji: ^Can you point to a place where Jesus (AS) said: "I am Jesus (AS) and I have brought Christianity to you as a religion?" All Prophets including Jesus (AS) were Muslims.

You argue from a disadvantaged position- Of course, you will not accept that.

Huh?

Jesus was a Jew that reformed Judaism and that is why people have christianity. Jesus was not a christian, though he brought about christianity.

Jesus never spoke Arabic, neither did Moses.


I do not even have to talk much on this point. Majaze does a good job of destroying your argument. Kudos Majaze.