Logicboy's Posts
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 Christianity Etc › Re: Obama, Another Important Christian, Supports Gay Marriage!! by logicboy(op): 5:08pm On May 10, 2012 |
TheShopKeeper: President Obama is never a christian, only a church-goer or at best a bench-warmer.Then, it is a good sign that christianity is losing its grip on monopolizing American politics |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Are Christians Amongst The Most Miserable On Earth by logicboy: 5:06pm On May 10, 2012 |
italo: You miss us, don't you?[img]http://www.troll.me/images/obv/seriously-bro-troll-harder-thumb.jpg[/img] |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Hive Psychology And The Origins Of Morality And Religion? by logicboy: 5:06pm On May 10, 2012 |
Very informative. The part I like best is where he mentioned the 90% Chimp and 10% beehive behaviour. I also liked the part where he showed that religious societies outlive the other secular ones. He also mentioned that group think can also be toxic. Concerning the Chimp and beehive behaviours, I interpret it as human beings being naturally selfish but having the capacity to realize that we can achieve more as a group. Religions, especially dogmatic ones, help the members to bond and focus on particular goals. That bond between members can help defeat outside groups which are not so cohesive. Look at the empires of the world- they had strong beliefs or religious convictions be it the Roman empire, the British or America. However, religion does become toxic because hostility towards non-members arises. We have seen slavery and genocide of unbelievers. Human beings have now evolved or are evolving away from religion. The world is so interconnected that we do not need local religions appreciate/understan the importance of a co-operative effort in creating a better world for human survival or the survival of the human race. Thank you, Pastor AIO for the video |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Time Endless? by logicboy: 4:13pm On May 10, 2012 |
italo: Wrong! Agnostics are not necessarily Atheists.Wrong. Scientists on America are overwhemingly atheists. Only a clown would deny that |
| Islam › Re: How Will Islam Make My Life Better? by logicboy(op): 4:11pm On May 10, 2012 |
LagosShia: these scholars are not my scholars.there are many scholars who translate or interprete that verse differently from "beat".e.g. Ayatollah Misbah Yazdi.sadly,those do not have Quran translation from arabic into another language.Logicboy 3 LagosShia 1 Post more English tanslations please.I have posted 3, you have only posted 1. Btw are you claiming Edip Yuksel, Layth Saleh al-Shaiban, and Martha Schulte-Nafeh to be your scholars? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: 100% Proof That The Bible Lies!!!! Must Read!!! by logicboy(op): 4:07pm On May 10, 2012 |
italo: Who is satan?[img]http://www.troll.me/images/obv/seriously-bro-troll-harder-thumb.jpg[/img] |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Time Endless? by logicboy: 3:45pm On May 10, 2012 |
italo: Both studies are flawed. I don't even want to go into the details because either way, it proves nothing!Both studies still show that scientists are generally atheists. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Idol Doll: Gods and Dolls by logicboy: 3:44pm On May 10, 2012 |
Nigerian christians after reading this thread and realising that their religion is just a foriegn idol https://www.i-mockery.com/halloween/greatest/pics/scanners4.gif 1 Like |
| Islam › Re: How Will Islam Make My Life Better? by logicboy(op): 3:39pm On May 10, 2012 |
LagosShia: Holy Quran 4:34You have no integrity. You post a "feminized" version of the Koran so that you can deceive unbelievers like me. The Edip-Layth translation is a modern translation made to fit the Koran with a softer tone. Here are 3 respected English translations; Yusuf Ali: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). Pickthall: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great. Shakir: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great I did not translate it, your muslim scholars did |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Obama, Another Important Christian, Supports Gay Marriage!! by logicboy(op): 3:31pm On May 10, 2012 |
| Christianity Etc › Re: 100% Proof That The Bible Lies!!!! Must Read!!! by logicboy(op): 3:20pm On May 10, 2012 |
Ayomivic: I don't know why people always responding to your post, or may be because they love you and they don't want you to go to hell. I know no amount of words can change you. Only God that you hate can change you. I pray God will show himself to you one day as he did to Saul .But know know this ,if you dont work for God then you are working for Satan.Wait, so all atheists are working for Satan? https://humourtouch.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Good-without-God.png |
| Islam › Re: The Real Top 5 False Things About Islam? by logicboy(op): 3:18pm On May 10, 2012 |
@lagosShia 1) Okay, no problem there. However, why is Dawah an issue then? Seriously, is it hard to express your religion to an unbeliever? 3) a)Okay, you have a valid point on the separation of church and state. b)I have every right to advertise my beliefs and my business. If have an atheist chairty, why shouldnt I have an atheist signboard? Is this tolerated in Iran; https://www.greatplay.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/GoodWithoutGod.jpeg c)Will a similar comedy (the comedy on the queen) on Allah/Mohammed be tolerated in any islamic state? Will such be tolerated in Iran? d)It actually saddens me that you are a bigot because I actually like you (no homo, if ur a guy). What is your problem with Jews? Holocaust denial is different from discussing the holocaust. You can not go and insult the families that were separated and destroyed or killed during the holocaust by saying that it did not happen. You can debate the numbers but the evidence of the murders is there. There are people who legitimately revise the holocaust history to establish new facts, which is different from flatly denying the event that took place. 4) So, muslim girls dont play professional volleyball or swimming? See what your religion does? 5) The pig toy fear is just too funny. Where does it stop? Do you stop children from playing videogames with pigs as the main characters? Furthermore, thank you for insulting my culture. I would let you know that the edible worm is far healthy than any halal meat or fish you eat because it has little side effect and is a simple source of protein. I dont know what health risks you are talking about. Halal food has health risks even sometimes more than haraam food eg squid is one the most healthiest meats you can eat. Catfish is even one the healthiest fishes you can eat http://longevity.about.com/od/lifelongnutrition/a/fish_mercury.htm Do you know the biggest irony of all time? Pork, Beef, Chicken and Lamb are all equally healthy when trimmed (of fat) and prepared properly in a haraam way. |
| Christianity Etc › Obama, Another Important Christian, Supports Gay Marriage!! by logicboy(op): 2:32pm On May 10, 2012 |
Obama announced that he supports gay marriage yesterday (May 9th 2012) becoming the first American president to do so. What do you christians have to say now? Is your religion getting another nail to the coffin? http://www.mediaite.com/online/prez-and-the-evolution-president-obama-comes-out-for-gay-marriage-to-robin-roberts/
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| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Are Christians Amongst The Most Miserable On Earth by logicboy: 2:22pm On May 10, 2012 |
Kai, shame on christians!!! See how they are avoiding this thread!! |
| Islam › Re: The Real Top 5 False Things About Islam? by logicboy(op): 1:46pm On May 10, 2012 |
LagosShia: first,really are you a kid to have a pig toy?1) I have no idea what you are trying to say with number 1. You have to give some context to the Koran quotes. 2) You are probably right on number 2. 3) Since you love the guy from Iran, let me use Blasphemy laws in Iran to debunk you. Why would someone in Iran be arrested for saying that there should be separation of church and state, under blasphemy laws? If I put up a signboard sayin "there is no God/Allah" in Iran, would I not be arrested? Allah is not a human being. He can not be defamed. As for insulting the queen or mocking holocaust, they are both allowed (holocaust denial is a different thing entirely) Insulting the queen with no arrest or fines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AypvlwhI-70 Holocaust jokes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeziJp0anhE 4) I agree with your point. However, you didnt address the olympics/volleyball uniforms. Furthermore, it is very discriminatory for someone to tell me that muslim women are better than me or beyond me because I am not muslim. Sorry, but there are evil women who are muslim and so dont ever tell me that muslim women shouldnt marry non-muslism- no one is perfect. 5) Pig toy is different from pig meat. The most common toy in the world is a teddy bear. Tell me, do children grow up to eat bears or even like bears after playing with the toys? Having a toy is different from playing with a toy. Many people have toy collections just for collecting. Furthermore, pigs are far from the dirtiest animals in the world. All animals are unclean. Even fish that is halal can be poisonous. Fish eat anything they can find in the water. Sometines they even swim in dirty rivers or sesas. In Japan, there is a fish that if you dont prepare it properly, you will die from eating it. Top chefs are only allowed to prepare that fish. What would islam say about my village in Nigeria where we eat edible worms? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: 100% Proof That The Bible Lies!!!! Must Read!!! by logicboy(op): 1:02pm On May 10, 2012 |
italo: Enough said!"My God" is just an expression. Grow up |
| Christianity Etc › Re: 100% Proof That The Bible Lies!!!! Must Read!!! by logicboy(op): 1:02pm On May 10, 2012 |
Image123: The fool has said, there is no God. i do not insult you, sorry. i've met enough uneducated folks to know that you must be the fool referred to.You sound hurt.  Is it because your bible has been proven to be a big lie? Are all atheists fools or is it that your bible is foolish for saying so? |
| Islam › Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy(op): 12:47pm On May 10, 2012 |
vedaxcool: if this was the best you can come up with, then you are indeed worse than a savage illiterate, olodo is the only title i can give that rightfully bestow you, i not your match, I am more than your match. you could not even refute the substance of what i wrote. inventing lies after lies to make your point seem sensible is very pathetic indeed. the issue of polygamy is very simple, it is permited for those who want to practice it, some cultures accept it very well while others do not, polygamy is a cure to your girfriend syndrime where shameless men pretend to be faithfully but do all sort of rubbish, polygamy provides a solution.I did not know that your comment was finally restored. Please, allow me to debunk you again. 1) Allah is not a human being, dead or alive. Spiritual beings have no human rights. Fact. 2) I never said that only families could sue on a dead man's behalf. So you are throwing a strawman there. 3) You need to read about holocaust denial. There is a clear difference between historical revision and saying that the holocaust is a hoax. You are free to talk about the holocaust and debate the numbers but when you claim that it is a hoax or Jews did not die, you are a racist. Historical revision allows you to improve onn the accepted data on a historical event as new facts emerge. There is no law stopping the truthful discussion on the holocaust and so you lie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial You clealy can not see the distinction and that is why you wrongly compare holocaust denial laws to blasphemy laws. ".D.enying the holocaust is not racist as one may choose not to believe a story." <<<< Your quote. This is how I know you are foolish. - Extensive proof for holocaust but Vedaxcool believes that it is a story and should be denied. There should be no holocaust denial laws - No single proof that God/Allah exists but Vedaxcool believes that it is not a story and unbelievers are wrong. There should be blasphemy laws and heretics executed You are bigoted towards Jews, yet you call me a bigot. lolololol . Lest you forget, my girlfriend is muslim. Most Holocaust denial claims imply, or openly state, that the Holocaust is a hoax arising out of a deliberate Jewish conspiracy to advance the interest of Jews at the expense of other peoples.[8] For this reason, Holocaust denial is generally considered to be an antisemitic[9 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial ============================================================================================================== 4) Please, explain what it means to do justice between your wives in this verse; Surah 4 Verse 3: And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course Doesnt it mean to love your wives equally? Or please, tell me what it means. Let's see how you spin this one =================================================================================================================== 5) The links I put clearly show a rejection of polygamy by muslim women. Your lying and twisting is useless. a) First link; Women in Iran dont want polygamy encouraged "Iranian women's groups and other organisations are fighting a much discussed proposed law which they say would encourage polygamy by allowing a man to take a second wife without the permission of the first under certain circumstances" http://www.commongroundnews.org/article.php?id=27421&lan=en&sp=0 Polgamy in Iran; "Although Islamic law permits a man to marry up to four wives (with strict restrictions), polygamy is not widely practiced in Iran." http://www.commongroundnews.org/article.php?id=27421&lan=en&sp=0 b) Second link; Women in Kurdistan dont want polygamy "Nearly 200 women from 40 women’s organizations staged a demonstration in front of the Kurdistan Regional Government’s (KRG) building in Erbil calling to amend a Personal Status Law article allowing polygamy." “We are particularly against men’s polygamy. Law no. 62 of the year 2001 banned polygamy with the exception of certain cases,” Sayran, who is also a member of Kurdistan’s Women Union, added" http://www.wluml.org/node/4968 c) Your comment about the link on Indonesia is very foolish. Irony doesnt mean contradiction. "Ironically, polygamy is on the rise in Indonesia even as more and more women reject it." http://theimpudentobserver.com/world-news/indonesia-muslim-women-reject-polygamy/ The irony could be as a result of either women not being able to act against the polygamy law which they dislike or are being pressured by men into such marriages. In summary of number 5, you are clearly in denial of the rejection of polygamy by muslim women. It is a clear fact and not limited to one country. Please stop living in a fantasy world. The fact is there. ======================================================================================================= 6) Answer the question, why is it that polygam is accepted in the most illiterate countries and outlawed in the most literate countries? ======================================================================================================= 7) Why are you ignoring this; " You say that people that deny God are evil but like a hypocrite you can not get enough of atheists and their creations. The very computer that you use is created by atheists/agnostics. Your computer OS is either windows or apple mac or linux. Bill Gates, the owner of microsoft is an agnostic, Steve Jobs of Apple is a Zen Buddhist (Buddhists dont believe in a god). Linux owners/directors are atheist. Your computer was likely assembled in China or Japan or South Korea, which are mostly atheist countries. You say that people who deny God are evil but you use medicine and technology brought to you by scientists. Majority of the scientists are atheists and believe in evolution which debunk the creationism in the Koran. It must be a huge cognitive dissonance being religious" |
| Christianity Etc › Re: 100% Proof That The Bible Lies!!!! Must Read!!! by logicboy(op): 11:31am On May 10, 2012 |
Image123: Very atheist of you to be a fool, what do you know?Keep calling me a fool. It makes you and your bible look like idiots |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Time Endless? by logicboy: 11:27am On May 10, 2012 |
italo: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/why_are_scientists_atheists.htmlAs usual, leave it to chrisitian apologetics to use a study that is both flawed and the only one that minimizes the atheism in scientists. Read more about Eklund's study http://scienceblogs.com/evolutionblog/2010/05/scientists_and_religion.php Furthermore, Eklund added social science to the study and also studied only academics. There are scientists outside the university. The website did not show the full study because it would show that; "Asked about their beliefs in God, 34% chose “I don't believe in God,” while 30% chose, “I do not know if there is a God, and there is no way to find out.” That's 64% who are atheist or agnostic, as compared to just 6% of the general public" http://scienceblogs.com/evolutionblog/2010/05/scientists_and_religion.php |
| Christianity Etc › Re: 100% Proof That The Bible Lies!!!! Must Read!!! by logicboy(op): 10:57am On May 10, 2012 |
Image123: High fool you mean.How christian of you |
| Islam › Re: How Will Islam Make My Life Better? by logicboy(op): 1:59am On May 10, 2012 |
LagosShia: Holy Quran 4:344 remaining translations left for me to shut up ======================================================================================================= Wikipeadia is a powerful tool at times. The Quran: A Reformist Translation (2007), is a recent translation by the team of Edip Yuksel, Layth Saleh al-Shaiban, and Martha Schulte-Nafeh. They claim to offer a non-sexist understanding of the text. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_translations_of_the_Quran |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Time Endless? by logicboy: 11:21pm On May 09, 2012 |
Ozegbe: so atheism is now a type of religion?https://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx5lqyG19e1qaa7gwo1_400.jpg |
| Islam › Re: How Will Islam Make My Life Better? by logicboy(op): 11:19pm On May 09, 2012 |
LagosShia: "logicboy",Wow, I did not realise how much you posted on that thread. You must be an aspiring apologist. However, nothing is stopping you from posting the translation of that verse. Post it and I will shut up |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The End Of The Credibility Of Tbaba And His Religion by logicboy(op): 11:10pm On May 09, 2012 |
LagosShia: you should know that there is a big difference between prisoners of war taken captives and slaves.Sorry, I did not mean to write "inbreeding". I think the autocorrect changed it from "pdophilia", with regards to Aisha. What is the difference between prisoners of war that work for you and slaves? Please, tell me. |
| Islam › The Real Top 5 False Things About Islam? by logicboy(op): 9:20pm On May 09, 2012 |
Calm down, the title is to get your attention! I am just copying Tbaba's style; https://www.nairaland.com/933520/top-five-false-things-about Okay, so I want to mention 5 things that really affect Islam negatively; 1) Isolationism; I can say that there will NEVER be more muslims than christians in the world with absolute certainty. Islam always put muslims before unbelievers at a cost. I believe muslims can learn something from how American christians operate. If America wants to destroy a muslim leader, they first send their reporters to find negative things about the muslim regime and then use it to gain support from buddhist China (generalisation) and atheist Europe (generalisation). They gather support from other faiths before attacking. Muslims on the other hand, are struggling with dawah. Just look at the other religion section on NL, for every atheist question, there are 20 christians ready to blast you with quotes and explanations from the bible. Everyone needs friends or allies. 2) Arabic langauage; I have tried and given up about learning islam in English. I dont know Arabic and so, learning about Islam is limited. I actually know more about Bhuddism and Judaism because these religions have enough resources in English. Even when you go to an English muslim site, there are quotes in Arabic. People fear what they do not understand. How is your religion to survive if most people have to stress themselves to understand your religion? 3) Blasphemy laws; This is the best motivation to troll. Being a troll sometimes myself, (Yes, I am not ashamed of my addiction to derailing religious threads, especially christian ones), I can tell you that there is ultimate satisfaction when a religious person whines like a crybaby when their religion is criticized. You can not legislate the internet and free speech (No, hate speech against islam is not free speech). You can not have blasphemy laws to punish people for insulting Allah because; a) Allah is not a human being. He has no human rights b) You will have the problem of defining what constitutes an insult against allah; as an atheist, are you going to arrest me for saying "Allah doesnt exist" or arrest christian for saying "Jesus is the ONLY real God" c) Criticism and asking questions is neccesary for the development of human beings d) Silencing people with genuine intentions will cause anger and retaliation because they will feel cheated. "Draw Muhammad Day" started because of the banning of the south park episode with Muhammad. In America, comedy doesnt really have much limits and can make fun of anyone. e) Many countries dont have blasphemy laws and the internet is global. Therefore, your religion can be insulted from another country with the troll protected by his country's law. However, please note that I support fair criticism and not hate speech aginst muslim. I am not supporting statements like "All muslims are terrorists" or "Muhammed is a rapist" etc I support fair criticism. For example; this is how I trolled my muslim girlfriend- "how do you stop fasting during ramadan if you're in a country that doesnt have sunset because of midnight sun" 4) Sex; I trolled some Saudi's on the train the other day by squeezing my girlfriend. They were horrified at the sexual touching. I did it because they were already giving me nasty looks because they clearly were not happy that an Arab girl is with a black guy (I dont know if they knew I wasnt muslim). The hot slap I received from my girlfriend when we got home was worth it! I got troll satisfaction from the Saudi's horrified and disgusted faces. Look, I get it. Islam is chaste and has rules on relationships and sex. However, your haraam doesnt apply to me or other atheists/non-muslims. If two people are kissing, why not let them be? Do you know why Thailand and Malta are better than Nigeria? Sex. Sex is power and money. People from US and Europe go to these poor countries to party and have sex. Sex and alcohol boosts economies. The main point to be taken from number 4 is that sex makes the world go round and non-muslims like me just feel that Islam should chill and be more accepting of our differences on sex/sexuality. The Olympics brings money to host countries. Seriously, look at the olympics, do you think people watch volley ball or gymnastics just for the sports? Does islam approve of the outfits/uniforms; 5) Pigs; Yes, muslims dont eat pork. But does that apply to playing with pig toys? One of my muslim friends (a grown man) said that he didnt like my pig toy (which was given to me by my neice) and didnt want his daughter to play with it. Also, are muslims not allowed to touch pork? There was a story my cousin told me that he didnt like the the way a woman in Burkha (Who was the sales attendant at the counter in the supermarket) packed his items. She threw the pork sausage as quickly as she could into the plastic bag but was cool with the other items. How can someone hate my pig from "angry birds"? https://gadgetsin.com/uploads/2010/12/angry_birds_green_pig_plush_toys_1.jpg So, what do you think? (please do not go down the route of saying that I am trolling/insulting islam, these are things that affect our everyday lives when muslims and non-muslims interact) |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Logicboy Was A Christian For 22 Years by logicboy: 9:03pm On May 09, 2012 |
Maxymilliano: Logicboy, what you are experienced and still experiencing is a kinda midlife crisis and it's what will shape who your personalty. Granted you claim to be an atheist, but your response so far depicts a belief without conviction. You don't need to clutch at what you percieved as weak straws in the bible to support your belief.I am an atheist. I have left christianity for 2 years now and no going back. I understand what you are saying though. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Time Endless? by logicboy: 9:01pm On May 09, 2012 |
Deep Sight: There. Jumping again. Who said you said so? It was a question. The question is directed at probing exactly why its relevant to mention that most scientists are atheists. How does that validate atheism?To an extent, it does validate atheism given the tactics christians use. They use the fallacy that they are right because they are the most popular religion in the world with nearly a 3rd of the world being christian. Even here on Nairaland the taunt atheists that we would not be able to be outspoken in Nigeria as we are here on Nairaland. The next step is to my country more atheist. Spread it like a virus. If 1 person can be converted by me in to an atheist, he or she can convert 2 more, 2 more can convert 4 more and so one. Read about memetics. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Time Endless? by logicboy: 8:38pm On May 09, 2012 |
Deep Sight: Is free-thinking the sole preserve of scientists?I never said that. Putting words in my mouth again? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Time Endless? by logicboy: 8:37pm On May 09, 2012 |
Deep Sight: Go to your profile and read your posts. All of them. You spew ignorance and puerile exuberance everywhere. Insults where they are so uncalled for. Someone could literariy say "Good morning" to you and you conclude that he is an i.diotic religionist, with insults to match. Na wah. Just calm down and gently school up. There's alot to be learnt. There are some very fine minds that have graced this forum. There have also been blissfully ignorant dolts who imagine that a rejection of religion alone elevates them to becoming Plato or Socrates over night. You just come across as a kid, and thats sad cos at your age, mid twenties, as you said - you are a man. Put your head down, interact with civility, read more and more, never stop reading. Stop jumping up and down.I see the problem. You actually find me interesting but you cant admit it. I know, I have that effect on people. Oh, yes, I'm a bit arrogant but it shouldnt turn you off You havent put a single proof of my ridiculous statements yet. |
| Islam › Re: How Will Islam Make My Life Better? by logicboy(op): 8:25pm On May 09, 2012 |
vedaxcool: Poor boy! And what is wrong if they answer the question the way they want to? That you cannot match their intellect does not means you have to force them to lower their standards to suits yours! LolYou are really sad. Truly sad. You people seem to get annoyed over the fact that your Koran says that a man can beat his wife. It is clealy written. Post the English translation if you have any integrity |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Concept Of God by logicboy: 7:42pm On May 09, 2012 |
PAGAN 9JA:Following Ptolomeus' reasoning, it would be Africans that started the concept of God since people say that civilization started in Africa |
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