₦airaland Forum

tbaba1234: 2. I have studied the Quran for years and i am yet to see an error. Attempts at finding errors are always deeply flawed.

So you say that the bible is flawed and the koran is flawless? As an atheist, this is a joke to me. Both books are flawed.

-The Koran is worse as it borrows the failed story of Adam and Eve. How did Adam and Eve's children have children without incest?

-The Koran is one of the most impossible books to read in English. I have never read it in Arabic but the style of narration in English is just haphazard.

-Tell me, is the Koran not as sexist as the bible when it allows a muslim man to marry a non-muslim but a muslim woman can not do the same? I have a muslim girlfriend, by the way.

Logic Mind: a simple question and christians start running around like headless chickens

They avoid the truth about their religion

tbaba1234: When an atheist becomes agnostic

A few weeks ago, i had a discussion with a friend of mine who is an atheist. We spoke for over 4 hours and we analysed the contentions of atheism. After our discussion, she began to contemplate the possibility of a God.

At the end, she began to concede. The 'rational basis' of the atheist argument fell flat. And she began to see the improbability of a world without a creator. What defines that creator is the next step.... She was a bit overwhelmed when i started to talk about the Quran (i had to stop short but she promised to read the translation). Hopefully, she finds the courage to take the next logical but understandably difficult step.

The atheist who loses faith can be categorized into 3 groups (my categorization): Sometimes it is a mixture of a number

1. A person who is dissatisfied with the restriction placed on him by faith and feels the need for 'freedom'.

2. One who is disillusioned by the practices of members of their faith and who project that to the entire population.

3. A person who questions the rational basis of his faith and its practises and doesn't find anyone willing to provide the answers.

A brief analysis

1. Number 1 is probably the worst of the lot: He is simply saying: I don't believe in God because he doesn't let me do what i want to do.... This is the baby attitude of some atheists. They forget that our lives are filled with restrictions.

Our parents set rules around the house, our govt tells us how fast to drive. Failure to adhere to these rules are usually accompanied by punishments and fines.

It is a silly reason to leave faith because you think being told to have sex only in marriage is restrictive for instance. It is such a childish reason.


2. Priests raping kids, suicide bombers killing innocent civilians, kids killed after being accused of witchcraft, honor killings.

People who lose faith because of these reasons base their faith loss on purely emotional reasons. This is not a logical way to look at things. Religious ideologies can be twisted to fit the political and social aim of any one. A proper analysis into the faith could reveal that these actions are not related to the faith. There could be cultural practises unrelated to the religion (in the case of honor killings) or a twisted ideology to achieve political ends (suicide bombing). Look at the classical sources and don't make emotional choices.

3. There must be a rational basis in the foundation of any faith. However, before one loses faith one should always try to meet the knowledgeable and understand the rational basis for that faith. Not all truths can be deduced rationally but the underlining belief must meet the criteria of common sense.

Losing faith in one belief system is not equal to God does not exist. I would argue that there is a better common sense argument for the existence of a creator...

Did yu even read the topic post? What are the number 1 and 2 reasons for a christian becoming an atheist? number 2 is the activites of God and his followers while number one is the the fallacies in the bible

1) Activities of God- logical argument; a perfect God can not create and imperfect world. If God is omnipotent, why does he need followers to do his bidding?

2) Fallacies in the bible- logical argument; why are ALL the major holy books flawed? Doesnt this mean that no human being truly knows god and what is the point of there being a god if nobody seems to have a clue about him? Why does god fail to reveal himself?

Judek2: Being an atheist is just related to one trying vehimently to escape the very nature and challange imbibed in him.
Infact, atheists are the most troubled set,knowing that they are wrestling themselves with what they cant quite clerify,giving them the opportunity to indulge only in what they assume. Just like science.

I tell you, ATHEISTS PITY THEMSELVES.

Your religion calls atheists fools and you expect people to listen to your gospel?

duality: And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act: 17:30

Logicboy, God loves You. YOU are going to use all these brilliance and intelligence you display for the Almighty God.remember apostle Saul; Just the way the worked against the gospel, he also worked for the gospel. God is going to use you to shame the devil. i see a viral preacher of the undiluted word of God in You. you Know, You will be the one to storm the camp to the atheists and win them for Jesus Christ. you are surly going to labour for God. There is going to be a radical transformation of your life. i see a very powerful end time preacher in you. God is using all these to prepare you. those coming with their logic and science, the holy spirit will empower you to deal with them. thats why you'r doing all these. You are not lost. you are being prepare for the end time battle for God. God bless you.

Lmao. Sorry, was a catholic for 22 years, no going back to that self defeating life.

Eklektika: I v thot of this atheist stuff seriously a yl baq n i must confess d@ any1 who claims s/he iz an atheist iz simply indulging in mental laziness. Being freed 4rm d shaqls of 'believing' in a SUPREME DEITY myt sim chiq buh in d lng run,it leads 2 entropy.I c no direct r/shp btw folx who behave badly n d prezence of a SUPREME DEITY. D@ ppl r bhaving badly doez nt in any way neg8 d xistence of GOD. D sheer xpanse,coherence n order of d universe iz in itself a testimony 2 d intellingence of SMBDY HYA UP. It smaqs of pathetiq n cheap publicity d@ atheists strive 2 convince us d@ GOD doeznt exist,y I v neva seen a born atheist,funny,sha. Its wen 'they' bgin 2 grow up n bcom opinion8d n 'logiqal' den they'll start 4ming atheists. Mtcheeeeewww! Abegggy!

What kind of gangsta grammar are you displaying? You're giving me headache bro

numo86: Logic boy....lol...I'm nt threatning u with any hell fire....
I'm jus saying u know God so dnt leave him....
Deep down u knw he exists...u can do ur utmost to serve him...
Forget about d propagandas propagated by sme clerics....
It'll be more fun if u urself told them d real truth about God...
Let no man made doctrine deter u frm clinging to God...
Remember our fore fathers who never knew God still have d prospect of coming back...
@ least that should make u smile..abi?

You are funny.

Ptolomeus: I am sorry to say this, but I think you can not read or did not.
If you read carefully what I wrote, you will notice that I am following the reasoning of those who posted just to show me his mistake. If, as you say I am an apologist, I am of the sufferings of the slaves, against the abuses of the Catholic Church that I denounce here permanently in the forum.
Read my posts please both you and do not rush to judge people.
It's always good to read first, then reasoning, and finally if, writing.
Rest your hands a little, and exercise your brain.
Thanks, and sorry if I offended you, but what really hurt you told me unfairly.
My respects

I am sorry, if I attacked you wrongly! Your comment wasnt clear to me, it looked like you were defending the slavery of the past. Sorry

jmoore: Out of ignorance, mouths will open to utter what they do not know and don't know that they don't know but I will continue to enlighten you though your heart has reached a point that any evidence presented to you is discarded because of your hatred of Jesus but he still loves you.

Now let me clarify things, so that even other christian can learn

First, we must recognize that the Bible does not say God supports slavery. In fact, the slavery described in the Old Testament was quite different from the kind of slavery we think of today - in which people are captured and sold as slaves.

According to Old Testament law, anyone caught selling another person into slavery was to be executed

EXODUS 21:16 "And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death."

Therefore, slavery during Old Testament times was not what we commonly recognize as slavery, such as that practiced in the 17th century Americas, when Africans were captured and forcibly brought to work on plantations.

But in ancient Israel there was voluntary slavery, people who could not provide for themselves or their families sold them into slavery so they would not die of starvation or exposure. In this way, a person would receive food and housing in exchange for labor. these voluntary slavery brought about rules on slavery in the Bible, those rules were made to protect the slave. Injuring or killing slaves was punishable - up to death of the offending party and many more laws for protection of slaves.

Paul, the author of many of the New Testament writings, virtually ordered the Philemon to release his slave from his service to "do what is proper".



Skeptics claim that the God of the Bible approves of and encourages slavery. What makes them blind is that they don't see the verse in the bible where selling a person into slavery was grounds for the death penalty, according to the Old Testament(EXODUS 21:16). The skeptics are also blind that they can't see the passage where slave traders where put in the same category with murderers,adulterers,homosexuals,liars, e.t.c in 1 Timothy 1:10: "..the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,"

1)EXODUS 21:16 "And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death."

Exodus 21;16 was talking about kidnapping and selling. Enslaving conquered cities was different from kidnapping in the old testament. You know this and you're trying to deceitfully protect the bible. People, animals and things from conquered cities were bounty and property of the isrealites;

Leviticus 25:44
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves."

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way


2) Slavery in the old testament was worse than modern slavery. Am I to believe that bushmen from biblical times had better living conditions than the 16th century? What about the quote where you could beat your slave as long as he can survive for two days in the old testament;

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


Also remember that Egyptians used to whip the hell out isrealite slaves in the bible and that was why Moses was angry!

3) 1 Timothy 1:10 was not talking about slaves, it was talking about kidnappers. Thanks to christian apologists who want to make the bible look good, it was changed from "kidnappers" to "slave traders". Slavery trading in the bible is different from kidnapping, like I said before. It was ok to enslave other conquered nations. If Timothy was talking about slaves, then why was Paul lenient on Philemon? Here is the original quote from 1 Timothy 10;

1 timothy 10; and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching

4) Paul only wanted a better treatment for Onesimus as a brother in christ. Paul did not free Onesimus but rather send him back to his slave master. Paul could have sent Onesimus elsewhere. Would you send a child victim back to a peadophile? Why a slave back to a slave master?


Please, also address Pope Gregory ix putting slavery into canon law

Also, expalin american churches having and supporting slavery

The queen/king is the head of the Anglican church of England and voyages to take slaves from Africa were done in their majestic names.

Ptolomeus: Exactly: "this writeup of yours looks so ........"
You say:
1. Who encouraged the enslavement of hundreds of thousands of Africans were not Christians, it was not the official position of the Catholic Church.
2. Those who tortured, rap_ed, killed Africans, and said they were animals and had no soul were not Christians, nor was that the official position of the Catholic Church.
3. Who exterminated the American Indians were not Christians, and that was not encouraged by the Catholic Church by official edicts.
4. Those blessed gunpowder and cannon bombardment of Guernica killing innocent women and children were not Christians, nor was that the official position of the Catholic Church
(I'll leave here, but could follow)

All good Catholics were ... and who will be good in future also be Catholics.

You are a slavery apologist eh? Out of ignorance, you conveniently denied that the catholic church did not support slavery! Bad news for you- The catholic church officially supported slavery in its canon law by Pope Gregory IX.

Christianity was brought to Nigeria with slavery and colonialism. The Portuguese that came were christians and so where the British. There are even quotes in the bible supporting slavery;

Leviticus 25:44
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

1 Peter 2:18
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."

Titus 2:9
"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them

What about churches and pastors having slaves?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-19-southern-baptists_x.htm

Goshen360: You are not ready to learn and you keep going in circle. How can't your logic tell your that he died. After I just showed you that the same sacrifice of Abel is a type of his death. So the Sheep of Abel died and Christ didn't die? Is that logic enough? My friend, I wan go sleep joo. Me think say you even get something logical to talk. Them don say we dey waste time wif una. Make i go take my time sleep.

You are not OK! God can not die, therefore Jesus can not die. Jesus did not die at the cross. He is a wayo man

buzugee: Deuteronomy 7 vs 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession (asian and west african are man created tags put on you. africa is the name of a roman general called leo scipio africanus and asia is the name of his brother called leo scipio asianus. they both conquered the lands and named them after theirself fulfilling the psalms 49 vs 11 prophesy )

You really think I am stupid? God was being racist and talking about the Isrealites in that verse;

Deuteronomy 7

Driving Out the Nations

1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.[a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles[b] and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession

buzugee: i personally would not be there. i dont like to get my manicured hands dirty. i will get the ammonites and edomites to do the stoning while i watch on the sides while drinking sacramental wine and cheering them on

You must have loved reading how catholics tortured heretics. Here is their best torture device for your sadomasochistic self;

https://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0907/the-judas-chair-demotivational-poster-1246633744.jpg

Goshen360: I don't know the kind of teachings you have heard about Jesus being God. God is not man. You as a man is the one limited by space and time. God is not like that. However, Christ is different from God, the Almighty, the Father. Okay. Christ is the son of God, who happens to also be God but lower to the God, the father.

The sacrifice of Abel is a picture of the real thing God was about doing in times to come,okay. When i mentioned your shadow, i mean your shadow is a type of you but not real you. Does this mean that if i see your shadow in the ground and pieced a knife into that shadow, does that mean you as a person will die? Definitely No. The NT was concealed in the OT while the OT revealed the NT. I hope you understand.

God can not die, therefore Jesus did not die on the cross. He was just doing a magic show!

That guy Jesus eh, e don dey kolo! e dey use us catch trips!

buzugee: its OK. apologies accepted. we know all you atheists are absent-minded simpletons

Sharrap there It was just a small mistake

buzugee: that atheist would have been stoned to death during the maccabean era. we would have stoned logicboy on his way to damascus to engage with harlot moabite women

You take delight in painful murder? Do you know how slow and painful it is to die by stoning?

buzugee: not human blood. calf blood. or sheep.

Sorry, Ishould have said sheep blood!

Goshen360: [size=15pt]X[/size]

YOU SEE YOUR SCORES?

besides, le'me wait for them your boss,lol

you are really foolish. Have you ever been able to imagine or think straight with a headache? Your consciousness and imagination are controlled by your brain. Or wait, you think with your buttocks? I should have known

Birds fly because they have wings and their bodies are suited to use them for flight. Simple.

Goshen360: That's why we are told not to argue with you. Because you don't even know the bible. Rather, you should ask for answers instead of rubbish God. I don't have problem with you if you don't believe in God but don't just rubbish our God that we believe in, okay.

God accepting Abel's sacrifice is a type and shadow of God accepting the sacrifice of His son Jesus, just like your own shadow is your type. God declares the end from the beginning. At this beginning, in Genesis, God was showing a picture of what is to come. If you ask kweshion, we will honour your kweshion honourably and you don't expect us to honour you when you rubbish our God. Okay.

Shadow ke? My shadow is not my type...my shadow varies depending on my hieght and whether I am standing or crouching

On a serious not, when did God become a vampire that needs blood? And even so, why would God sacrifice himself (Jesus) when he cannot die? It's like taking a poison and an antidote- no effect

buzugee: because blood is required to make peace with the lord LEVITICUS 17 VS 11 because blood contains life. I have given this blood to you to make peace with me on the altar. Blood is needed to make peace with me

You can't see the contradiction mixed with circular logic? Don't worry, "logic" is not in your username !

When did Yaweh turn to a vampire? What did he need blood for? An omnipotent being needing human blood?

Goshen360: Here are few amongst many, to start with:

Where is your imagination and conscience located?
What is it that makes a bird fly and you as a man cannot fly and yet you are greater than a bird?
Why cant you fly like a bird?
You as an Atheist, Do you believe in the Invisible and Visible?

Start from there, I will assess your level of Atheism and give you more. Waiting.

-Where is your imagination and conscience located? I am not a scientist but I will say that your imagination and conscience are controlled by your brain. Imagine or think too much and you get a headache

-What is it that makes a bird fly and you as a man cannot fly and yet you are greater than a bird? Biology? They have wings? BTW I can fly on aeroplanes

-You as an Atheist, Do you believe in the Invisible and Visible? Yes, sound is invisible to my naked eye. However, I dont believe in spirits

buzugee: What is important to man (how japan and china looks ) is foolishness to the lord. LUKE 16 VS 15 What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight.

What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight

Then why did God accept Abel's finest sheep and reject Cains average crops?

numo86: Logic boy....I agree with u a lil....
But if u rili had a personal relationshp with Jah u wuldnt stop believin in him....
I knw d discrepancies in churches is enof to drive some1 away from it,but not from Yahweh...
And ofcus d hell fire doctrine too formulated by humans has also contributed to many thinkin dat God is cruel God,who will award everlastin life to 2 sets of peoples but 1 group enjoyin while d other suffers...that is not a bible teaching....
That also shuldnt make u stop believin in God...u know d truth..rather u shuld spread it not stop believing in the Creator....
And also most of our ancestors who never knew about God before dying do have d prospect of being resurrected when d end comes....
Why?? Because d bible says there will be a ressurection of both righteous and unrighteous persons.....
Unrighteous persons are definitly those who never knew about God but still with there conscience kept Gods commands...
Apostle paul did say that God will Judge us according to what we know and have known...
For those who have come to know Gods laws,they'll be judged by it..
For those without law,those who just had there consciences without a law attached to it,God will judge them accordin to there conscience....
But know this!!!!....u have heard about God and also u know him.....don't leave him....
I won't judge u,but we all will give an account on that day....
It is better u never knew God ,than for u to know he exists and ignore him......

You still make the same mistake of threatening me with hell. You might as well threaten me with the boogeyman because they both dont exist!

buzugee: no i am not being racist. wouldnt you like to know why the world is the way it is ? or do you think the black nations of the world were naturally created to be a plunder to the white nations of the world ? you think this is the natural order of things ? your inferiority complex tells you that you are supposed to accept being a plunder ? JEREMIAH 14 VS 2[b] Is Israel a servant, a slave by birth? Why then has he become plunder ?[/b] (EVEN THE LORD IS ASKING THE QUESTION AS TO WHY YOU CONTINUE TO BE A PLUNDER) when all you have to do is return to me and i will fight all your enemies for you PSALMS 81 VS 13 “Oh that My people would listen to Me, That Israel would walk in My ways! 14 “I would quickly subdue their enemies And turn My hand against their adversaries.

I am not someone suffering from inferiority complex. Rather, it is you who is suffering from it. Tell, me why as a black man, you believe that God should have a chosen race (racist God) and why he would choose to come as Jew? Is Asian or West African not good enough for your racist God?

buzugee: Nah chief its simply because PROVERBS 26 VS 4 Don't answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are.

PSALMS 14 VS 1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God. logicamigos

What, so anyone that doesnt believe in God is a fool? Thanks your and your failed bible have just called 64% of Japan idiots and a lot of chinese people as well.

Considering how useless your country is compared to these two ountries (not to mention secular European countries), you are the fool

Goshen360: ^^^
Sharraaap there,lol . I believe in God and all i said in my latter post was, when you don't believe in God, don't blame our God for everything that happens and don't say because evil happened, God was not powerful or exist. I can ask you a kweshion that Atheist had not being able to answer, if you can answer, i will convert to Atheist, ok

There are many questions that I can not answer. Nice try.

What I can say with 100% certainty is that the bible is rubbish

Alumnus: Am disappointed in you. You are a virgin yet call other virgins hypocrites, what then are you if not a supper hypocrite. That a supposed christian sinned does not mean every other christian sins. I taught ur name is Logic?

No, I only have problems with people who lie about their virginity. I'm just a young adult and I expect more maturity from married men (not being married myself)

Goshen360: God bless you.

Even you too? You have succumbed to the intellectual bashing that atheists have given you?

[quote author=emöfine2]Exactly. Some of his rhetoric is blatantly racist .[/quote] Not surprising

GboyegaD: So what make you think those who were able to lead a godly relationship are self hypocrites?

Even if you manage to lead a godly relationship, you still end up looking like a hypocrite. Why?

Because the bible loves incest! Abraham married his half sister, Sarah. Reuben slept with his father's concubine and Isaac married his first cousin!

Bonus; The wisest man in the bible had 700 wives, is that Godly?

Alumnus: I can see that ur pained that it's not every one is a sex addict and sees it as normal. Who are u to determine who is telling d truth and who is not. If I spent 4 yrs in d university without sex, will I not be able to spend 3yrs outside it wtout sex? My dear, God knows we are humans when He called it sin and am sure ur not more Logical than God.u may continue to doubt it cos u'v not known that POWER that keeps.

That's where you fail. You think that because I am an atheist, I'm a sex addict? I am a virgin (although I do a lot of touching)!

So many christians lie about their sexual activities that I doubt most of them when they claim to be chaste. I personally caught a christian borther watching gay porn. See how he was begging me not to tell anyone

Are you sure that you are not being racist? No offense, just trying to understand. If I am to make you an atheist, I gotta know h0ow you think